"Twilight" Sequel Sets New Opening-Day Record

[Fluffybunny]

Its not romance though, it is unhealthy obsession and lust.

I have to agree with you on that one. I am late to the whole twilight scene as I had no interest in reading the books, and caught the movie simply to spend time with a friends family, who were all nutty about the movie; I have to say that I was really disgusted by the latest movie. I was stunned that such a movie could be penned by a woman, in the last 100 years anyway. I don't understand how women could possibly think it acceptable to bring young impressionable girls to see New Moon, I just don't. The bottom line is that the female protagonist ends up being absolutely powerlessly, obsessively, unhealthily entangled with a controlling, abusive, battering, unhappy, suicidal control freak who breaks into the girls room to watch her sleep without being invited to do so. She then becomes suicidal in an attempt to "see" him again. Oh what a splendid message to give impressionable young girls on what "Love" is...

I was absolutely slack jawed that anyone would actually willingly be a fan of this...stuff.

The worst part is watching the 40's ish moms coming unglued and acting like this is some kind of re-definition of true love; I just can't wait to see what kind of damage that has on the future kids. it is disgusting to me to think that women would set their daughters up for this being the kind of role models of love they want, it is just an absolute lack of parenting.

Let's not even get into the fact that these same moms were getting hot and bothered over 17 year old boys taking their shirts off; a wonderful double standard.

Stunning.

[Rosewin]

The bottom line is that the female protagonist ends up being absolutely powerlessly, obsessively, unhealthily entangled with a controlling, abusive, battering, unhappy, suicidal control freak who breaks into the girls room to watch her sleep without being invited to do so.

I think people understand breaking in someone's room is wrong but it is just fiction and most understand that. In ever other aspect the character of Bella pretty much has free will and decides what to do. She is not powerless in the least for she makes her every decision on her own. Some accuse the character of being selfish. Which is it? It cannot be both. She gets what she wants. That is not powerless.

She then becomes suicidal in an attempt to "see" him again.

Best part of the movie.

Let's not even get into the fact that these same moms were getting hot and bothered over 17 year old boys taking their shirts off; a wonderful double standard.

The first thing my wife said when Jacob went into Bella's room was 'pure sex' but whatever I am not going to hate.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Rosewin

[Fluffybunny]

Best part of the movie.

Yes, it is always great to teach those impressionable girls in the audience that they are at the complete mercy of men and the best way to deal with a tough breakup is to give up everything you are and kill yourself.

Wonderful message.

Wow.

[Rosewin]

It is not a message it is fiction. Parents are for messages. Movies are for entertainment.

[Queen in the North]

she's a complete hack, who not only writes for 15 year old girls, but she writes like she IS a 15 year old girl. everything i have seen from her is choked full of emo bull that makes me want to puke.

S'cuse me, I could take that the wrong way and be very offended

I can write better than that woman!

Yes, it is always great to teach those impressionable girls in the audience that they are at the complete mercy of men and the best way to deal with a tough breakup is to give up everything you are and kill yourself.

Wonderful message.

Wow.

Well said.

[Rosewin]

Well said.

Yet your favorite show is True Blood or something? I do not see the logic of you agreeing with that comment. I do respect your choice though...definitely.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Rosewin

[Queen in the North]

Yet your favorite show is True Blood or something? I do not see the logic of you agreeing with that comment.

It's not my favourite show, but I do like it, yes.

However True Blood is certainly not aimed at impressionable young girls (I realise I still kind of fall into this age group, but I am far from impressionable) and any messages in True Blood which may be similar to that which Fluffybunny listed about Twilight are unlikely to reach them. Adults (well, mostly) can see that it's make believe, and that it's not to be taken seriously.

[Rosewin]

I am not buying the great social concern but good luck in saving your generation lollies unless of course you have written them off as doomed.

It is hard to believe anyone truly has great social concern on the books and movies because really good parents make good kids...if a movie is going to steer someone in the wrong direction then things have gone wrong long, long ago.

Blaming a movie, a song, or anything else for some social ill is just Republican and quite fascist IMO.

Shall we burn the books? Or simply expect more from parents?

Edited November 24, 2009 by Rosewin

[Fluffybunny]

It's not my favourite show, but I do like it, yes.

However True Blood is certainly not aimed at impressionable young girls (I realise I still kind of fall into this age group, but I am far from impressionable) and any messages in True Blood which may be similar to that which Fluffybunny listed about Twilight are unlikely to reach them. Adults (well, mostly) can see that it's make believe, and that it's not to be taken seriously.

Well said

[Rosewin]

and any messages in True Blood which may be similar to that which Fluffybunny listed about Twilight are unlikely to reach them

Well said

How can one prefer the youth to watch True Blood, which depicts sex scenes, over Twilight which does not? How do you reconcile that?

Whatever, teens will see and do far worse than either most likely. Morals really have no place on this thread about a movie but toss them around it just seems more about hating Twilight than true social concern.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Rosewin

[+HerNibs]

How can one prefer the youth to watch True Blood, which depicts sex scenes, over Twilight which does not? How do you reconcile that or endorse one over the other?

To be fair, that isn't what she is saying. She said that ADULTS watch True Blood and that it isn't appropriate for young people, specifically the age that seems to be all a twitter over Twilight.

I said the same thing. I've seen it, read books, etc. I do NOT think anyone who is impressionable watch it.

The women my age *mumble* years old who are oohing and ahhing over the boys in the movie should expect a visit from Chris Hansen.

Nibs

[Fluffybunny]

It is not a message it is fiction. Parents are for messages. Movies are for entertainment.

I understand that, and if you read my post you see that I said that parents were failing by taking impressionable young children to see such movies; I lay the blame at the feet of the parents too stupid and too lazy to filter what their kids see.

I also lay the blame at the feet of the writer; a modern day woman, who comes up with the junk in the first place; it is targeted to young impressionable teens(Look at ad placement), so she holds responsibility in this too.

When a fictional movie is targeted at minds so young they cannot begin to unwind truth from fiction, and the implications of the movie attempting to redefine love in such an abusive and obsessive way, well sorry, it isn't so cut and dry anymore. It isn't the other vampire show that plays on late night cable away from young eyes; it has little kid parties for book releases, and movie releases, so no ,sorry she and the movie hold responsibility in the reality of what they are creating.

[Fluffybunny]

How can one prefer the youth to watch True Blood, which depicts sex scenes, over Twilight which does not? How do you reconcile that?

Whatever, teens will see and do far worse than either most likely. Morals really have no place on this thread about a movie but toss them around it just seems more about hating Twilight than true social concern.

I don't want youth to watch true blood and never said so. dont put words in my mouth. It is marketed to adults on pay cable, late at night. R rating, very clear. that was the point.

Yes, morals do have to do with it. Targeting movies innapropriately has a lot to do with it. maybe you don't have kids, I don't know.

[Rosewin]

To be fair, that isn't what she is saying. She said that ADULTS watch True Blood and that it isn't appropriate for young people, specifically the age that seems to be all a twitter over Twilight.

I said the same thing. I've seen it, read books, etc. I do NOT think anyone who is impressionable watch it.

The women my age *mumble* years old who are oohing and ahhing over the boys in the movie should expect a visit from Chris Hansen.

Nibs

Someone that age who watches True Blood is not going to sound authentic when discussing the perils Twilight offers her own generation.

I also lay the blame at the feet of the writer; a modern day woman, who comes up with the junk in the first place; it is targeted to young impressionable teens(Look at ad placement), so she holds responsibility in this too.

Blaming the author is fail in my eyes but I understand your point just highly disagree. Far worse things are projected at the same audience. I fail to see anyone here making the same outcry with those things so it is easy to dismiss this great concern as a mask for hatred of the author and possibly the hype. I am not buying it.

It is OK to hate the hype. To say such a thing about the author is exaggeration and looks like reaching to me. Some of the same people who hate when the churches speak out against books or movies because of morals will now do the exact same...

...

seriously.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Rosewin

[theGhost_and_theDarkness]

I just watched the second movie yesterday. I've read all the books, too. . .not because I like them in the least, but because I believe in order to truly have an opinion on them, I have to experience them all. That and I believe I must have some subconscious need to torture myself.

The books were painful, to say the least. The movies are actually BETTER than the books, IMO. That's actually not a compliment, though it may sound like one.

For one, the writing mechanics are atrocious, the characters are one dimensional. . .I knew exactly how the series would end before I even finished the first book. I even predicted the whole baby and Jacob thing. The main character is someone you can hardly feel sorry for because she's just absurd on every level. . .Edward is, at best, annoying.

The sad thing is, I KNOW how strange women are because I am one. . .I knew what would happen when the hordes of women, pre-teen to pre-menopause, would see/read it. "Oh, if only I could find a man like that." "Why doesn't so-and-so do things like that for me. . ." Poor, real men don't stand a chance against that non-logic.

And all of it because of a badly written series that takes American literature to a new low. I HATE to think that these books will represent our culture in the future. Its embarrassing to go from Mark Twain to this.

Edited November 24, 2009 by theGhost_and_theDarkness

[Queen in the North]

How can one prefer the youth to watch True Blood, which depicts sex scenes, over Twilight which does not? How do you reconcile that?

Whatever, teens will see and do far worse than either most likely. Morals really have no place on this thread about a movie but toss them around it just seems more about hating Twilight than true social concern.

I didn't say I wanted young people watched True Blood. I said that it WON'T affect them, because they WON'T be watching it.

Oh, and it's not like there's not sex in plenty of television programmes that young people see. Fair enough, it's not as explicit, but it's still there.

[+HerNibs]

Someone that age who watches True Blood is not going to sound authentic when discussing the perils Twilight offers her own generation.

Well, I only know her from the board but she seems to be exceptional and to have her head on straight. My daughter at her age would have been allowed to watch either as far as I am concerned. Again, my daughter had a good grasp of what is ok and not ok in a relationship. As parents, we tried to convey this information to all of our kids.

My idiot sister encourages her daughter (8 going on 9) to hope for a boy like Edward! See? Here is a problem.

I believe that parents need to be responsible for what kind of crap their kids are exposed to on a daily basis and if the parent cannot control the crap then they sould certainly educate the kid.

Blaming the author is fail in my eyes but I understand your point just highly disagree. Far worse things are projected at the same audience. I fail to see anyone here making the same outcry with those things so it is easy to dismiss this great concern as a mask for hatred of the author and possibly the hype. I am not buying it.

It is OK to hate the hype. To say such a thing about the author is exaggeration and looks like reaching to me. Some of the same people who hate when the churches speak out against books or movies because of morals will now do the exact same...

...

seriously.

I agree that far worse items and ideas are projected at kids but this thread is about Twilight correct?

Nibs

edit to add -

Any church (or person) can speak out for or against what ever they want. We are all entitled to voice our opinion.

Edited November 24, 2009 by HerNibs

[Fluffybunny]

Blaming the author is fail in my eyes but I understand your point just highly disagree. Far worse things are projected at the same audience. I fail to see anyone here making the same outcry with those things so it is easy to dismiss this great concern as a mask for hatred of the author and possibly the hype. I am not buying it.

So because "Worse" things are targeted at kids, this isn't a point? wow. Whatever "Those" things are, "they" are not on this topic, so of course they are not being discussed right not, what do you expect? this is a discussion about a given topic, so THAT is what is being discussed, if you see something else to discuss, there are plenty of other threads to discuss other matters, but that does not invalidate this one. Talk about a "fail" in logic...

It is OK to hate the hype.

I am glad it is ok to hate the hype. thank you for letting me have that. It is very kind of you. You are so kind and noble to do so. Is there anything else that is OK?

To say such a thing about the author is exaggeration and looks like reaching to me.

No it isn't. Not in the least.

I am pretty sure we are done here. I have made my point, and I don't even think you have kids or even young enough family have the perspective in which to understand my point of view, so it is pointless to go on discussing it with you.

[Corp]

Maybe this is all just a vast plan to condition the next generation of women. Must say I'm ticked at how easy the next generation of men will have it.

"Hi, you seem nice."

"Shut up woman and make me a sandwich!"

*swoons*

[+HerNibs]

Maybe this is all just a vast plan to condition the next generation of women. Must say I'm ticked at how easy the next generation of men will have it.

"Hi, you seem nice."

"Shut up woman and make me a sandwich!"

*swoons*

LOL. God I hope not or my daughter is doomed.

"Hi, you seem to be not a felon, disease free and mentally competent and you seem nice."

"Shut up woman and make me a sandwich!"

*stab*

Yeah, that wouldn't end well.

Nibs

[Drago]

Someone that age who watches True Blood is not going to sound authentic when discussing the perils Twilight offers her own generation.

True Blood: Rated R. For adults. Airs at late-night when children aren't usually watching TV.

Twilight movies: Rated PG-13 to increase the potential audience size. Marketed at young, immature women.

I see no correlation. Someone that age who watches True Blood with her eleven and thirteen year old daughter would not sound authentic when discussing the message Twilight gives readers. And HerNibs is not discussing the 'perils Twilight offers her own generation'. She's discussing the perils of imprinting on an entire generation of developing children that the kind of things in Twilight are the height of romance.

Blaming the author is fail in my eyes but I understand your point just highly disagree. Far worse things are projected at the same audience. I fail to see anyone here making the same outcry with those things so it is easy to dismiss this great concern as a mask for hatred of the author and possibly the hype. I am not buying it.

It is OK to hate the hype. To say such a thing about the author is exaggeration and looks like reaching to me. Some of the same people who hate when the churches speak out against books or movies because of morals will now do the exact same...

...

seriously.

If far worse things are being seen by the Twilight-typical audience of 11-15 year old girls, then that is the fault of the parents. We do not make the same outcry because typically these types of films are not aimed at children.

You know what? It really doesn't matter whether you buy or believe anything we've said or will say. Because you're getting more and more outlandish with your posts to the point that it's obvious that you're taking this discussion very personally. Now you're equating our annoyance and dislike of the messages put forth in the Twilight series with church book-burnings and morality-movie banning, when not once have we ever called for Twilight, books OR movies, to disappear. The most anyone here has said is that they contain themes that are unhealthy for children, who whether you want to admit it or not, are using books and television to build their worldview, to come to terms with and try to understand how the world usually works.

The problem here seems to be you already find the kind of things in Twilight that we find objectionable to be highly romantic. In which case no amount of you talking to us or us talking to you is going to accomplish anything. Just let me ask you this hypothetical question: You have a 16 year old daughter. She's in a relationship with Edward Cullen. Eddie cuts her off from talking to you. He even disables her car so she can't leave to come see you. You see your daughter less and less, until finally you stop hearing from her altogether. As a parent, do you find this situation romantic? As a parent, would your reaction to this be to smile and say 'Ah, true love.' Would you allow this to happen with your daughter?

Or how about a more realistic situation? My younger sister had relationship problems with her most recent boyfriend. He tried to control her. She had to ask to use a phone, she had to say who she was calling. He would constantly check her text messages and call log, but she couldn't touch his phone without getting yelled at. She wasn't allowed to drive - he kept the keys to both their vehicles and he had to take her where she wanted to go. He was abusive - at one point she tried to use a phone to call the police after he hit her, and he took the phone and destroyed it, mainly by slamming it against the wall until the wall broke under it.

Yet she never tried to 'get away'. She was convinced she could 'fix him'. That he wasn't really a monster, that he really did love her and love made everything get better eventually, doesn't it?

Ringing any Bellas?

[+HerNibs]

True Blood: Rated R. For adults. Airs at late-night when children aren't usually watching TV.

Twilight movies: Rated PG-13 to increase the potential audience size. Marketed at young, immature women.

I see no correlation. Someone that age who watches True Blood with her eleven and thirteen year old daughter would not sound authentic when discussing the message Twilight gives readers. And HerNibs is not discussing the 'perils Twilight offers her own generation'. She's discussing the perils of imprinting on an entire generation of developing children that the kind of things in Twilight are the height of romance.

If far worse things are being seen by the Twilight-typical audience of 11-15 year old girls, then that is the fault of the parents. We do not make the same outcry because typically these types of films are not aimed at children.

You know what? It really doesn't matter whether you buy or believe anything we've said or will say. Because you're getting more and more outlandish with your posts to the point that it's obvious that you're taking this discussion very personally. Now you're equating our annoyance and dislike of the messages put forth in the Twilight series with church book-burnings and morality-movie banning, when not once have we ever called for Twilight, books OR movies, to disappear. The most anyone here has said is that they contain themes that are unhealthy for children, who whether you want to admit it or not, are using books and television to build their worldview, to come to terms with and try to understand how the world usually works.

The problem here seems to be you already find the kind of things in Twilight that we find objectionable to be highly romantic. In which case no amount of you talking to us or us talking to you is going to accomplish anything. Just let me ask you this hypothetical question: You have a 16 year old daughter. She's in a relationship with Edward Cullen. Eddie cuts her off from talking to you. He even disables her car so she can't leave to come see you. You see your daughter less and less, until finally you stop hearing from her altogether. As a parent, do you find this situation romantic? As a parent, would your reaction to this be to smile and say 'Ah, true love.' Would you allow this to happen with your daughter?

Or how about a more realistic situation? My younger sister had relationship problems with her most recent boyfriend. He tried to control her. She had to ask to use a phone, she had to say who she was calling. He would constantly check her text messages and call log, but she couldn't touch his phone without getting yelled at. She wasn't allowed to drive - he kept the keys to both their vehicles and he had to take her where she wanted to go. He was abusive - at one point she tried to use a phone to call the police after he hit her, and he took the phone and destroyed it, mainly by slamming it against the wall until the wall broke under it.

Yet she never tried to 'get away'. She was convinced she could 'fix him'. That he wasn't really a monster, that he really did love her and love made everything get better eventually, doesn't it?

Ringing any Bellas?

*standing ovation*

Nibs

[MissMelsWell]

It is actually an horrifically written bad novel written by Ms Stephanie Meyers, that was made in to a movie.

I think it is more about S. Meyers abuse of the written word, inability to produce and well a real plot or a remotely likeable, developed character.

A friend of mine (she's 42! She has a masters degree from an ivy league university!) gave me the first book last April when we were on a trip and I had nothing to read. She RAVED about it, saying how fun it was, how romantic, that I'd just LOVE it! OMG, I still have it here, I need to give it back to her (or burn it) I was unable to get past the first 25 pages... SIX times. I tried to read it a half dozen times and couldn't get past those first 25 pages.

When she gave it to me, I was interested to read it, I hadn't heard of it at that point, and I'll typically read anything takes place in my home state or places I've really been to. (Unfortunately, I've been to Forks a number of times--if you don't mind a bunch of fishermen and out of work loggers walking around scratching their butts, then it's probably a great place, but mostlly, it's gross. LOL)

It's the biggest hack job of writing I've read since Dan Brown! I won't be seeing any of the movies, and I'm sure as heck not going to try to read it for a seventh time.

[Rosewin]

I just watched the second movie yesterday. I've read all the books, too. . .not because I like them in the least, but because I believe in order to truly have an opinion on them, I have to experience them all. That and I believe I must have some subconscious need to torture myself.

The books were painful, to say the least. The movies are actually BETTER than the books, IMO. That's actually not a compliment, though it may sound like one.

For one, the writing mechanics are atrocious, the characters are one dimensional. . .I knew exactly how the series would end before I even finished the first book. I even predicted the whole baby and Jacob thing. The main character is someone you can hardly feel sorry for because she's just absurd on every level. . .Edward is, at best, annoying.

The sad thing is, I KNOW how strange women are because I am one. . .I knew what would happen when the hordes of women, pre-teen to pre-menopause, would see/read it. "Oh, if only I could find a man like that." "Why doesn't so-and-so do things like that for me. . ." Poor, real men don't stand a chance against that non-logic.

And all of it because of a badly written series that takes American literature to a new low. I HATE to think that these books will represent our culture in the future. Its embarrassing to go from Mark Twain to this.

Pragmatic and honest. Not that I agree with it all but how can I find any fault in your lament which seems devoid of hate? Even when you mention it I do not feel it but sadness that our education system has fallen is definitely there.

I didn't say I wanted young people watched True Blood. I said that it WON'T affect them, because they WON'T be watching it.

Oh, and it's not like there's not sex in plenty of television programmes that young people see. Fair enough, it's not as explicit, but it's still there.

Alright and that is fair too.

I am pretty sure we are done here.

Well...OK.

Or how about a more realistic situation? My younger sister had relationship problems with her most recent boyfriend. He tried to control her. She had to ask to use a phone, she had to say who she was calling. He would constantly check her text messages and call log, but she couldn't touch his phone without getting yelled at. She wasn't allowed to drive - he kept the keys to both their vehicles and he had to take her where she wanted to go. He was abusive - at one point she tried to use a phone to call the police after he hit her, and he took the phone and destroyed it, mainly by slamming it against the wall until the wall broke under it.

Yet she never tried to 'get away'. She was convinced she could 'fix him'. That he wasn't really a monster, that he really did love her and love made everything get better eventually, doesn't it?

Ringing any Bellas?

Well the fact you are going to use your sister to hate on Twilight is not going to convince me of anything. The way you ended it with 'Ringing any Bellas?' after the horrible ordeal your sister went through in real life causes me to further dismiss your concern towards either her or the movie.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Rosewin

[Corp]

His point went right over your head didn't it?