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behaviour???

"Twilight" Sequel Sets New Opening-Day Record

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HerNibs

Just an 'observation,' Rosewin, remaining civil does not equate to resuming hostilities. HerNibs has a negative opinion of the books - she's got every right to state that opinion; because she makes it plain she's stating her own personal opinion, and is being negative about a book, she has done nothing to offend anyone save the author. You're giving out opinions as facts, and directly applying them to the people here - this is not the way to keep a discussion civil. If you want to argue a point that HerNibs makes, the way to do it is to read the book and offer book-related counterpoints. You argue against the opinion, not the opinion's owner. If you've read the book and, for example, don't understand how we can think Bella has no character depth, the proper response is to give your own opinions on why you think she does - give examples, it's encouraged. The civil response is most definitely not to make an observation that everyone who thinks she lacks depth of character probably lacks it themselves, and then insist if this insults the reader then you're sorry it's true.

I am now the president of the DRAGO fanclub. :D

The guy that plays Edward is most well-known for playing Cedric Diggory, a character in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. He's present until the end of the movie, and is actually a really important part of the plot, but he only gets about twenty minutes screen-time total I think. Disappointed a lot of people - The guy's death was a major turning point in the entire Harry Potter series because it started the Darker And Edgier spiral, and the movie almost downplayed it - and Cedric - to get more scenes with Harry And Friends into the theatrical run-time.

So people who actually LIKED Cedric and the way he was presented in the books got shafted so they could show a few extra minutes of 'Holy Crap' Hermione (My sisters' nickname for Hermione post-everyone realizing she's actually a pretty girl.)

They did leave out quite abit about Cedric...sad.

Well, Pattinson has a new movie coming out "Remember Me". Pierce Brosnan. This one looks less like twaddle.

Nibs

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WoIverine

Ok ladies, we went and saw it with you...now it's time to hand the testacles back. lol :P

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Rosewin

Just an 'observation,' Rosewin, remaining civil does not equate to resuming hostilities. HerNibs has a negative opinion of the books - she's got every right to state that opinion; because she makes it plain she's stating her own personal opinion, and is being negative about a book, she has done nothing to offend anyone save the author. You're giving out opinions as facts, and directly applying them to the people here - this is not the way to keep a discussion civil. If you want to argue a point that HerNibs makes, the way to do it is to read the book and offer book-related counterpoints. You argue against the opinion, not the opinion's owner. If you've read the book and, for example, don't understand how we can think Bella has no character depth, the proper response is to give your own opinions on why you think she does - give examples, it's encouraged. The civil response is most definitely not to make an observation that everyone who thinks she lacks depth of character probably lacks it themselves, and then insist if this insults the reader then you're sorry it's true.

Most likely you did not read the following so the first half of your post is rather unnecessary, her initial rage post since the mod intervention also had nothing to do with the books, which I have began reading finally, thx.

I will not mention it again but it is not 'some idea to get over' when it is quite easy to tell that those who are very negative have something wrong. It is just one of those simple facts in life. Just consider the fact that your negativity is also derailing. Me mentioning such was just in response to that, but I will not mention it again, no need to, I guess there never really was.

I am also not lying her unrelenting negativity actually does not make me feel well at all, it is beyond simple criticism, and it ruins my experience here on these threads, which should allow decent conversation for both fans and others alike.

Either way I really appreciate your willingness to simply discuss the series with me, through actual conversation with respect, instead of just turning around and saying everything sux. Thanks Drago.

The guy that plays Edward is most well-known for playing Cedric Diggory, a character in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. He's present until the end of the movie, and is actually a really important part of the plot, but he only gets about twenty minutes screen-time total I think. Disappointed a lot of people - The guy's death was a major turning point in the entire Harry Potter series because it started the Darker And Edgier spiral, and the movie almost downplayed it - and Cedric - to get more scenes with Harry And Friends into the theatrical run-time.

So people who actually LIKED Cedric and the way he was presented in the books got shafted so they could show a few extra minutes of 'Holy Crap' Hermione (My sisters' nickname for Hermione post-everyone realizing she's actually a pretty girl.)

Interesting, even though I have avoided this series since it first became popular years ago, I do like to learn such insights.

Edited by Rosewin

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Corp

I'm thinking Pattinson isn't enjoying his fame. He's already come out and clearly said that he hates the series and is only doing it for the money. Throw in stories of girls offering him their blood and you're not going to have a happy person. Then there's the guy who played the villian in the first movie who had to remind fans that he was just playing a character and really wasn't evil (he even did a joke video where a mob of teen girls attack and kill him).

Edited by Corp

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HerNibs

I'm thinking Pattinson isn't enjoying his fame. He's already come out and clearly said that he hates the series and is only doing it for the money. Throw in stories of girls offering him their blood and you're not going to have a happy person. Then there's the guy who played the villian in the first movie who had to remind fans that he was just playing a character and really wasn't evil (he even did a joke video where a mob of teen girls attack and kill him).

Yup. I do feel for the poor boy. He does admit to drinking quite a bit. :D Goober.

robert-pattinson-party-animal-photos.jpg

Nibs

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Rosewin

I saw an interview where he had a bottle and was smashing drunk, while being asked questions.

Edited by Rosewin

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Drago

Occasionally you'll get an actor that comes to absolutely hate a character or series they have to play. I'm thinking Edward Cullen may prove to be Pattinson's Acting BSOD.

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Cetacea

Then there's the guy who played the villian in the first movie who had to remind fans that he was just playing a character and really wasn't evil (he even did a joke video where a mob of teen girls attack and kill him).

:o Really?

See now this is what people have against Twilight fans...

And how could you hate James? He's just offering to do the world a favour, at least if Bella had died there might have been some form of plot and more importantly, only one book! :P

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Cetacea

Just to say... I found New Moon on the internet today. Boy am I glad I did not waste £2.50 on it!

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Queen in the North

Just to say... I found New Moon on the internet today. Boy am I glad I did not waste £2.50 on it!

Only £2.50?!

My KIDS ticket cost me a fiver! :o

And because it ended up as more of a trip out, it actually cost me nearer to fifteen quid. Dammnit.

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HerNibs

Just to say... I found New Moon on the internet today. Boy am I glad I did not waste £2.50 on it!

:P I saw that it was umm...available...as well. :) Not gonna bother.

Only £2.50?!

My KIDS ticket cost me a fiver! :o

And because it ended up as more of a trip out, it actually cost me nearer to fifteen quid. Dammnit.

Well, still 15 quid, not too bad...*converting in head*...whoa...nevermind, that is more than I would have spent.

Nibs

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Cetacea

Only £2.50?!

My KIDS ticket cost me a fiver! :o

And because it ended up as more of a trip out, it actually cost me nearer to fifteen quid. Dammnit.

Cheap Tuesdays for students at our local cinema :D

Glad I didn't bother!

:P I saw that it was umm...available...as well. :) Not gonna bother.

Nibs

Good choice! I wish I hadn't but I felt it was only fair if I was on a thread about it criticising I should have seen the actual film. Curiosity kills the cat I guess, wanted to see if it was as bad or if possible worse. It was worse.

Excuse me while I go shower, my brain feels violated...

Edited by Cetacea

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HerNibs

Good choice! I wish I hadn't but I felt it was only fair if I was on a thread about it criticising I should have seen the actual film. Curiosity kills the cat I guess, wanted to see if it was as bad or if possible worse. It was worse.

Excuse me while I go shower, my brain feels violated...

And I fear that it is only going to get worse...

Nibs

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drakonwick

All the griping and complaining over a movie lol :huh: You people seem to be forgetting (or ignoring) one major element in all this... "TWILIGHT is just a movie." Claiming that this particular movie makes young girls turn out bad is just utterly ridiculous, and yes I am sure it does have some form of impact on some of these young impressionable teens, but not on the level that alot of you adamantly persist upon.

Alot of teens have several problems, they get married and have babies to young yes, but guess what... that problem has been persistent for decades and probably has nothing to do with a vampire movie. But, if it does have soemthing to do with Twilight, then you can't simply stop there, go ahead and blame every movie that has this less than appropriate storyline.

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Rosewin

not on the level that alot of you adamantly persist upon

/lurks

(while I agree with everything you posted, the natives are most likely going to circle the wagons now...and adamantly persist)

Edited by Rosewin

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Stormcrow

All the griping and complaining over a movie lol :huh: You people seem to be forgetting (or ignoring) one major element in all this... "TWILIGHT is just a movie." Claiming that this particular movie makes young girls turn out bad is just utterly ridiculous, and yes I am sure it does have some form of impact on some of these young impressionable teens, but not on the level that alot of you adamantly persist upon.

Alot of teens have several problems, they get married and have babies to young yes, but guess what... that problem has been persistent for decades and probably has nothing to do with a vampire movie. But, if it does have soemthing to do with Twilight, then you can't simply stop there, go ahead and blame every movie that has this less than appropriate storyline.

It has very little with wanting to get married at 16 and have as many children as you can pop out before you're 20. It's about making abusive relationships a positive thing for girls. Twilight doesn't downplay physical or verbal abuse or general aggression, it encourages it, which is the bad thing here. Girls, mothers even, want "their own Edward", in other words, they want a boyfriend or husband that will regularly demean, threaten, and insult them to the point that in any realistic situation, authorities would interfere. But because it's fiction, there happens to be no such thing as authority, so the abusive boyfriend gets away with it and is actually praised for his bad behavior.

YES Twilight does have the power to make children think this is the right thing. The book is being marketed to people of an impressionable age, if their favorite characters are exhibiting this behavior, it's likely that they will begin to believe it is the right behavior to engage in themselves. Given that people are already treating Twilight like it's a new religion (Twible, anyone?), and going to extreme length to defend it (beyond petty insults and bizarre threats, some people have been physically injured by fans), I don't think one can say that it isn't going to hurt anyone to read it. It already has. And it will continue to, as long as people are ignorant and unable to separate reality from fantasy.

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drakonwick

It has very little with wanting to get married at 16 and have as many children as you can pop out before you're 20. It's about making abusive relationships a positive thing for girls. Twilight doesn't downplay physical or verbal abuse or general aggression, it encourages it, which is the bad thing here. Girls, mothers even, want "their own Edward", in other words, they want a boyfriend or husband that will regularly demean, threaten, and insult them to the point that in any realistic situation, authorities would interfere. But because it's fiction, there happens to be no such thing as authority, so the abusive boyfriend gets away with it and is actually praised for his bad behavior.

YES Twilight does have the power to make children think this is the right thing. The book is being marketed to people of an impressionable age, if their favorite characters are exhibiting this behavior, it's likely that they will begin to believe it is the right behavior to engage in themselves. Given that people are already treating Twilight like it's a new religion (Twible, anyone?), and going to extreme length to defend it (beyond petty insults and bizarre threats, some people have been physically injured by fans), I don't think one can say that it isn't going to hurt anyone to read it. It already has. And it will continue to, as long as people are ignorant and unable to separate reality from fantasy.

Indeed! I suppose all that anyone can do is see it how they want to see it. :) Everyone has an opinion. I see it just like many other things of similar interest that have come to pass, and that being that it's nothing more than a FAD. I do not see this particular movie causing anymore damage to teens than what problematic elements that are already there, that are well beyond this movie.

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Stormcrow

Indeed! I suppose all that anyone can do is see it how they want to see it. :) Everyone has an opinion. I see it just like many other things of similar interest that have come to pass, and that being that it's nothing more than a FAD. I do not see this particular movie causing anymore damage to teens than what problematic elements that are already there, that are well beyond this movie.

That is not simply the way I see it, it is also what I have observed. Suggesting that it is simply "the way I see it" firstly implies that I am unfamiliar with the tendencies of domestic violence disputes. It then secondly implies that I have never heard someone utter the words, "I want my own Edward!" Both of which are false. Edward's behavior as a boyfriend is quite telling. Would you rather me get the word of a psychologist in on this so it would be more "believable"? I have one, quite handy actually; mums the word.

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drakonwick

That is not simply the way I see it, it is also what I have observed. Suggesting that it is simply "the way I see it" firstly implies that I am unfamiliar with the tendencies of domestic violence disputes. It then secondly implies that I have never heard someone utter the words, "I want my own Edward!" Both of which are false. Edward's behavior as a boyfriend is quite telling. Would you rather me get the word of a psychologist in on this so it would be more "believable"? I have one, quite handy actually; mums the word.

You can get the word of a psychologist if you like, but the word of one psychologist does not really amount to much in the end, as this is of an opinionated subject matter. I can understand where you are coming from to a certain extent because this new generation of children are highly impressionable and it truly is sad when mothers join in on the "stuper twilight craze."

I will put it like this. It is more or less a sociable new age cultural phenomenon, that has amassed through all this new cinematic hype of glorifying vampires, werewolves, zombies etc., in fashionable detail that has a tendency to captivate the younger audiences.

But, does all this really make a difference in how a young adult will function later on in life? There are alot more aspects to what makes a person who they are than just a simple movie gimmick. As I said before, fads come and go with time and age.

I will leave it at that, as I personally do not see me getting any kind of relevent point across on this thread.

Actually, I will clarify some more, this added information seems needed.

Now lets bring marital relationships into the subject. For instance a family has a dad that likes to go to the strip club on the weekends, or on the other hand, the mother is a stripper, I'm sure the parents teenage kids know about this in some form or another. How does Twilight have anymore of an effect on teenagers than already troubled relationships? I would say its all the same concept, its teaching children that its ok to be that way.

Unless there is an informative inquiry of a statistical analysis showing the harm Twilight is doing to children worldwide, I will stand by my original summation.

This movie like many other movies before it, is nothing more than a fad.

Regards

Edited by Moro Bumbleroot

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Stormcrow

But, does all this really make a difference in how a young adult will function later on in life? There are alot more aspects to what makes a person who they are than just a simple movie gimmick. As I said before, fads come and go with time and age.

Depends on the effect it had on them while they were young. I think one of three things are possible. First, the child is smart enough to realize the book is a work of fiction. Second, the child imagines that Twilight is an illustration of the perfect relationship, and strives to find one of their own. Said child manages to work themselves into an abusive relationship and stays there without any realization of the danger. Third, the child imagines that Twilight is an illustration of the perfect relationship, works themselves into an abusive relationship, but realizes the reality of the situation and has learned a valuable life lesson.

True, it will dissipate, and hopefully it will do so quickly, but we're worried about the moment, not the future. I see a lot of internet fads come and go, especially if you're a member of DeviantArt, you'll see a lot more than you'll ever want to. However, it's sad truth that many kids simply want to conform (and being in the Twilight fandom is in that area of conformity), and because of that they'll generally do whatever is necessary. I'm sure you're familiar with the "emo" fad that became all-popular several years ago? In a similar fashion, children and teens misunderstood, and wound up hurting themselves (either emotionally or physically) because they had convinced themselves they were desperately depressed, when in truth there was nothing wrong with their lives at all.

Fads are very powerful. I think it's irresponsible to treat them so lightly.

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Corp

One can only hope it's a fad and that these girls will grow out of it.

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drakonwick

Depends on the effect it had on them while they were young. I think one of three things are possible. First, the child is smart enough to realize the book is a work of fiction. Second, the child imagines that Twilight is an illustration of the perfect relationship, and strives to find one of their own. Said child manages to work themselves into an abusive relationship and stays there without any realization of the danger. Third, the child imagines that Twilight is an illustration of the perfect relationship, works themselves into an abusive relationship, but realizes the reality of the situation and has learned a valuable life lesson.

True, it will dissipate, and hopefully it will do so quickly, but we're worried about the moment, not the future. I see a lot of internet fads come and go, especially if you're a member of DeviantArt, you'll see a lot more than you'll ever want to. However, it's sad truth that many kids simply want to conform (and being in the Twilight fandom is in that area of conformity), and because of that they'll generally do whatever is necessary. I'm sure you're familiar with the "emo" fad that became all-popular several years ago? In a similar fashion, children and teens misunderstood, and wound up hurting themselves (either emotionally or physically) because they had convinced themselves they were desperately depressed, when in truth there was nothing wrong with their lives at all.

Fads are very powerful. I think it's irresponsible to treat them so lightly.

Now take Twilight out of that equation and then add any of the other confounding reasons as to why such things can and does happen to people, and you might see my point. All these problems were there well before the cinematic element came into picture. It seems you are doing nothing more than adding a new element to an ongoing problem that has already been there for many generations. Does movies like Twilight help the matter any, probably not. But it's definitely not the main cause of teenage relationship issues.

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Stormcrow

My beef isn't with the movies, its the books. If you've seen the movies then you have seen a very, very small portion of what the storyline encourages.

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Rosewin

Everything EK has mentioned and has deep concerns about simply is the feminist (the political kind) view and approach towards Twilight. It is shaded and submerged within the world of divisive politics and -isms. It is not the view of regular common folk who just want to live without -isms and the like.

While some who hold views such as EK might not even know everything they are saying is simply written from a feminist script, word per word, they are merely political pawns spreading the same message, and if you disagree with that political message, they label you as against equality of the sexes and as not understanding what real abuse is. This is the way mobs work who are intolerant of other views and try to label you as either ignorant or evil for disagreeing. No, we understand, we just disagree.

Here is the script, word per word, that is constantly repeated until they believe it is truth when in fact it is political sentiment and lots of emotions. Take note of the source:

Twilight: A Feminist Nightmare

by Jen Nedeau

...

Even without seeing the movies or reading the book, the Twilight narrative really disturbs me. From what I know about it, it is a story of a predatory vampire who essentially stalks a young woman named Bella. Their relationship turns into a reckless romantic escapade and Bella ends up losing every sense of herself, becoming solely concerned with giving herself to this 100-year-old vampire dressed up in a 17-year-old boy's body.

Apparently, I'm not alone in my concerns. University of Victoria professor Janni Aragon is also warning parents and young Twilight fans that the series doesn't depict healthy relationships between the sexes.

Aragon says that while she, a grown woman, understands the difference between fact and escapist fiction, the distinction might be lost on some of the young audience for the book and movie series. This is the main problem with Twilight for me. I'm afraid that this fiction will become fact for millions of young women influenced by the standards of subordination and stalking going on in the movie and books.

As Amplify points out, the curious thing about the Twilight series is that it features a female protagonist and was written and directed by women. So why do I feel like this movie perpetuates archaic stereotypes that serve to bring society backwards, not forwards, when it comes to how young women proceed in their lives and personal relationships?

http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/twilight_a_feminist_nightmare

The following now is an article from the Washington Times and it can be read into it that people are just sick of all the -isms and 'political correctness fail' and simply just want to live normally which includes things like love and romance.

People are starved for things like this, that is why Twilight is popular, because for too long feminists have been trying to destroy traditionalism. Traditionalism does not have to mean a man and woman are not equal, it simply means a man and woman are made for each other. It does not mean we are going to hate on other kind of relationships, love is love, but love in all its forms should be celebrated and the most common kind is between a man and a woman. This is the message feminist hate and wish to destroy.

The biggest lie is that traditional love and romance is antiquated, out of date, and not modern. That it is...backwards, and even...wrong. While they believe their way is modern and correct in truth what was natural to people over one thousand years ago when it comes love is still the same, today and forever.

Reposting since it is relevant to the topic at hand:

'Twilight' Sinks Its Teeth Into Feminism

By Leonard Sax

...

The allure of "Twilight" lies in its combination of modern sensibility and ambience with traditional ideas about gender. Bella has broad appeal; as many girls can appreciate, she likes watching reruns of "The Simpsons" while she nibbles on Pop-Tarts. But the twist is that Bella's ideas about gender roles are decidedly unfeminist. The pairing of a modern setting and traditional gender roles is unusual in children's and teen literature. More often, modern books communicate a modern view of gender: beginning in early childhood, for example, girls read the "Dora the Explorer" series and grow into adolescence with books such as "Esperanza Rising" and "The Breadwinner."

Despite all the modern accouterments in the "Twilight" saga, the girls are still girls, and the boys are traditional men. More specifically: The lead male characters, Edward Cullen and Jacob Black, are muscular and unwaveringly brave, while Bella and the other girls bake cookies, make supper for the men and hold all-female slumber parties. It gets worse for feminists: Bella is regularly threatened with violence in the first three books, and in every instance she is rescued by Edward or Jacob. In the third book she describes herself as "helpless and delicious." (Warning: Fans who haven't read the fourth book should skip to the next paragraph.) Bella spends the first half of the final installment in the most helpless condition of all -- pregnant and confined to bed rest. She is unable to leave the house and becomes capable of defending herself only after she becomes a vampire.

Little surprise that not everyone is a fan: Amy Clarke, who teaches an undergraduate course on "Harry Potter" at the University of California at Davis, asked The Post: "Do we really want our daughters reading books about a girl like Bella who is always needing to be saved?" ["Bitten and Smitten," Style, Aug. 1]. In our enlightened era, some wonder, why would girls respond with rabid enthusiasm to books that communicate such old-fashioned gender stereotypes? Today's youth, after all, have been told since earliest childhood that gender shouldn't really matter, that girls and boys can and should do the same things, dream the same dreams, and indeed should be the same in every way that counts.

Yet on some level, it seems that children may know human nature better than grown-ups do. Consider: The fascination that romance holds for many girls is not a mere social construct; it derives from something deeper. In my research on youth and gender issues, I have found that despite all the indoctrination they've received to the contrary, most of the hundreds of teenage girls I have interviewed in the United States, Australia and New Zealand nevertheless believe that human nature is gendered to the core. They are hungry for books that reflect that sensibility. Three decades of adults pretending that gender doesn't matter haven't created a generation of feminists who don't need men; they have instead created a horde of girls who adore the traditional male and female roles and relationships in the "Twilight" saga. Likewise, ignoring gender differences hasn't created a generation of boys who muse about their feelings while they work on their scrapbooks. Instead, a growing number of boys in this country spend much of their free time absorbed in the masculine mayhem of video games such as Grand Theft Auto and Halo or surfing the Internet for pornography.

For more than three decades, political correctness has required that educators and parents pretend that gender doesn't really matter. The results of that policy are upon us: a growing cohort of young men who spend many hours each week playing video games and looking at pornography online, while their sisters and friends dream of gentle werewolves who are content to cuddle with them and dazzling vampires who will protect them from danger. In other words, ignoring gender differences is contributing to a growing gender divide.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/15/AR2008081503099.html

In the real world Twilight is popular because the human body has evolved to naturally and healthfully experience love and romance, while they are not the exact same they are in the same family, and while love and romance does lead to broken hearts at times, it is a natural and healthy part of human experience. On the other hand feminism is political divisiveness which only seeks to destroy all of this and to run away from love and romance altogether and label it as animal behavior. That is the farthest thing from reality.

There is no argument here just the simple understanding between what is feminist political scripts being repeated until believed by a few while the rest of the world simply does what comes natural without avoiding it all tragic like.

And the song is satirical and it not meant to be taken seriously. Nellie McKay I do believe is an actual feminist and a great singer! And I understand that this song is ultimately making fun of those who complain about feminists, and not making fun about feminists themselves, which some might actually think.

Edited by Rosewin

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Stormcrow

Yep, yep, yep. I'm a liar, let's hear it again.

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