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shaka5

Ny votes against......

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shaka5

Equality for homosexuals is not a voting issue, it is not a political correctness issue, it is not something for left or right wing or conservatives or liberals or anybody else to be for or against - it is a necessity of giving the opportunity of liberty and guarantee of non-discrimination and equality to people who have been segregated as though they can be excluded from society. Bush's so-called DoM is one of the greatest travesties perpetrated against an arbitrarily singled out group of American citizens. Let's make sure people with AIDS or cancer can't get married too, people with depression, lupus.

The states do not get to vote on whether black people or women have the same rights and representation as white men, it is required by law, it is not an option, it is a federal directive to maintain equal rights for everyone. For some illegal and prejudiced reason, homosexuality is an exception, and is legislated against by politicians that seem to forget the whole trivial separation of church and state quibble.

Couldn't put it better myself Paranormalcy, i never understood why this is a voting issue.

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danielost

Nope. Marriage has not been around longer than the laws. Even the most primitive societies had "laws" against killing and stealing. Marriage was brought into the mix a long time later.

You are bringing into the mix grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. Homosexual couples have the same support systems available to them as well.

What about a dad raising two girls?

Nibs

what about two dads raising two girls, when said dads dont like girls or prefer boys to girls.

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HerNibs

what about two dads raising two girls, when said dads dont like girls or prefer boys to girls.

So? What about the mom who is raising three boys when the mom likes boys?

Or the widowed dad raising three girls?

What are you implying Daniel?

Nibs

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shaka5

what about two dads raising two girls, when said dads dont like girls or prefer boys to girls.

ok, just got what you meant, fail

Edited by shaka5

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shaka5

I've worked at a daycare for over 4 years, mothers and fathers do not make better parents than 2 females or 2 males...that is such crap to me, i've seen the worst...i know same sex couples that are wonderful parents, these stupid sayings that its better for it to be a male and female is just stupid, how many male and female parents have been arrested, murdered kids, abused them...this is just another way to channel hate, not understanding, or whatever way you wanna put it.

We've changed the meaning of marriage before, why would it be so bad now...it was illegal for blacks to marry, but we changed that didnt we?

Edited by shaka5

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danielost

I've worked at a daycare for over 4 years, mothers and fathers do not make better parents than 2 females or 2 males...that is such crap to me, i've seen the worst...i know same sex couples that are wonderful parents, these stupid sayings that its better for it to be a male and female is just stupid, how many male and female parents have been arrested, murdered kids, abused them...this is just another way to channel hate, not understanding, or whatever way you wanna put it.

We've changed the meaning of marriage before, why would it be so bad now...it was illegal for blacks to marry, but we changed that didnt we?

that is what i am talking about

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HerNibs

that is what i am talking about

So? We change the meaning of words all the time.

Why not make in inclusive rather than exclusive?

Nibs

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questionmark

So? We change the meaning of words all the time.

Why not make in inclusive rather than exclusive?

Nibs

Because ...... (fill in the name of the pertaining Ayatollah) has told me so!

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danielost

Huh? Marriage has certainly not.

In fact, there were laws around and women were passed from the property of the father to the property of the husband...which certainly does not conform our concept of marriage.

if you go by science marriage goes back beyond modern humans as a way to bring peace between two rival tribes. or to get food that one or the other group needed to survive.

if you go by the bible the first marriage was between the first man and woman. again before there were any man made laws.

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danielost

So? We change the meaning of words all the time.

Why not make in inclusive rather than exclusive?

Nibs

because we are not talking about changing the meaning of a word. we are talking about changing the meaning of marriage. even the romans who were sexually open didn't have gay marriage.

Edited by danielost

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questionmark

if you go by science marriage goes back beyond modern humans as a way to bring peace between two rival tribes. or to get food that one or the other group needed to survive.

if you go by the bible the first marriage was between the first man and woman. again before there were any man made laws.

This may be shocking to you: but before laws any men belonged to any woman who could grab him. And that changed frequently.

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HerNibs

if you go by science marriage goes back beyond modern humans as a way to bring peace between two rival tribes. or to get food that one or the other group needed to survive.

if you go by the bible the first marriage was between the first man and woman. again before there were any man made laws.

Umm...Daniel, WAY before the bible there were laws and to a varying degree, ideas of marriage. It was usually ownership, not marriage. If the woman didn't have a choice it's ownership. Also, side point, the biblical rules of marriage aren't really practiced any more are they? Besides, does that make two muslim individuals less married because they don't follow biblical marriage?

Or how about us atheists? Am I any less married because I don't recognize the bible as a source of authority?

Nibs

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HerNibs

because we are not talking about changing the meaning of a word. we are talking about changing the meaning of marriage. even the romans who were sexually open didn't have gay marriage.

No, they openly had brothels and slaves. It was also socially acceptable to have sex with young boys and girls. The romans also had slaves.

You really want them to be our example?

Nibs

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The Silver Thong

Daniel and Trueyou have either of you ever been married? No yes doesn't much matter. I have been married twice and both times zero religion was involved. We used a JP to marry us, does that make my marriage lesser than that done of the church? I'm also an Atheist, does that make my marriages sacrilege? Marriage has nothing to do with god so why try and inject god into something he has no say in.

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Paranormalcy

I have helped make this thread veer offtopic, and also have basically said my piece on the matter, and do not see any forthcoming constructive or illuminating conversation, in my case, being possible, so I will wish everyone else a good thread, and remind you to try to keep it on topic as possible.

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danielost

No, they openly had brothels and slaves. It was also socially acceptable to have sex with young boys and girls. The romans also had slaves.

You really want them to be our example?

Nibs

they also openly had sex with the same sex. yet no gay marriage.

oh and by the way muslims do follow the biblical marriage the father decides who the daughter is going to marry and recieves a payment for her. of course in our society the daughters father pays for the wedding.

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HerNibs

they also openly had sex with the same sex. yet no gay marriage.

oh and by the way muslims do follow the biblical marriage the father decides who the daughter is going to marry and recieves a payment for her. of course in our society the daughters father pays for the wedding.

Well, then all the happy Christians running around and marrying who they want must not be "really" married.

How does this make homosexual marriage bad? It just makes ALL marriage sound bad.

Would it be better if there were defined roles?

Nibs

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Cadetak

There is absolutely no logical reason why homosexuals should not be allowed to be recognized as married. This is America and it is almost the year 2010...not the ancient middle east where the role and definition was fundamentally different.

It's sad and embarrassing that this is even an issue....bigotry and ignorance amongst a nation that prides itself on freedom and equality and was founded on a principle of separation of church and state.

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The Silver Thong

There is absolutely no logical reason why homosexuals should not be allowed to be recognized as married. This is America and it is almost the year 2010...not the ancient middle east where the role and definition was fundamentally different.

It's sad and embarrassing that this is even an issue....bigotry and ignorance amongst a nation that prides itself on freedom and equality and was founded on a principle of separation of church and state.

Can't say much more than that my friend. Hammer meet nail lol The strong and mostly somewhat free if you look really hard for it LOL

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TRUEYOUTRUEME

What is really sad and ignorant is the left-wing who claim that the science is settled (again) and that we all much march in lockstep on how their opinions on sexuality are the only ones that matter. All others must be denied any repesentation in thier fascist minds.

Homosexuality is a CORRUPTION of the natural purpose of the male and female gender in regards to sexuality. It is corrosive morally to a society. That is the reality. The left-wing belief that homosexuality is natural and good is left-wing propaganda based upon their hatred of traditional values.

Edited by TRUEYOUTRUEME

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The Silver Thong

What is really sad and ignorant is the left-wing who claim that the science is settled (again) and that we all much march in lockstep on how their opinions on sexuality are the only ones that matter. All others must be denied any repesentation in thier fascist minds.

Homosexuality is a CORRUPTION of the natural purpose of the male and female gender in regards to sexuality. It is corrosive morally to a society. That is the reality. The left-wing belief that homosexuality is natural and good is left-wing propaganda based upon their hatred of traditional values.

No the thinking person understands that homosexuality is not a choice and that it has been around since god created homosexuals ;)

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TRUEYOUTRUEME

No the thinking person understands that homosexuality is not a choice and that it has been around since god created homosexuals ;)

That is your belief system and you are entitled to it. Just do not try to force me to march lockstep with your religious belief. I am a real American. I will call you on it and fight to make you stick your belief where it belongs.

Homosexuality is a CORRUPTION of natural human sexuality.

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The Silver Thong

That is your belief system and you are entitled to it. Just do not try to force me to march lockstep with your religious belief. I am a real American. I will call you on it and fight to make you stick your belief where it belongs.

Homosexuality is a CORRUPTION of natural human sexuality.

Proof that someone can live to be 40+ and learn nothing. Your a real American hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Not........ and I think you might owe an apology to your fellow Americans sir ;)

I don't think that you concept of real American is right as you wish to side with religion over law.

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Cadetak

What is really sad and ignorant is the left-wing who claim that the science is settled (again) and that we all much march in lockstep on how their opinions on sexuality are the only ones that matter. All others must be denied any repesentation in thier fascist minds.

Homosexuality is a CORRUPTION of the natural purpose of the male and female gender in regards to sexuality. It is corrosive morally to a society. That is the reality. The left-wing belief that homosexuality is natural and good is left-wing propaganda based upon their hatred of traditional values.

Prove any of what you are saying please.

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keithisco

because we are not talking about changing the meaning of a word. we are talking about changing the meaning of marriage. even the romans who were sexually open didn't have gay marriage.

Seriously? They had "open relationships" (ie Gay Partners). Marriage is a biblical concept, at least the Modern Catholic Marriage is. Prior to that was ownership of women. How disgusting is that!!

What really is the "meaning of marriage" two people making vows before a Civic dignatory, or a Priest..... what a pointless exercise. People change throughout their lives, should have respect and consideration for children in their care until they reach maturity at least, and show restraint.

What exactly do you think is wrong with Gay marriage? Does it affect you in ant way whatsoever? NO.

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