Guest Lottie Posted June 5, 2004 #1 Share Posted June 5, 2004 A flotilla of ships has set sail from Portsmouth Harbour to mark the 60th anniversary of the D-Day landings. Many veterans of the decisive seaborne invasion are making the crossing to attend commemorative events in France. Their ferries are being escorted by warships from the UK, France and the US and WWII ships including landing craft. At least 12,000 British veterans are thought to be travelling to Normandy to honour the thousands who died to liberate France from German occupation. In Portsmouth, the veterans' flotilla was saluted by local VIPs as it left harbour, accompanied by a military band. More than 450 veterans are making the Channel crossing in a cruise ship, the Van Gogh, which has been chartered for the event by the Royal British Legion. Tributes Continued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #2 Share Posted June 5, 2004 We should all remember the sacrafice these brave brave men made for ALL of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted June 5, 2004 #3 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Can Rememberance reunite France and the US? French President Jacques Chirac will host George W Bush this weekend to commemorate the D-Day landings which liberated Nazi-occupied France. But after relations between the two nations were strained over the war in Iraq, can the spirit of remembrance help bring the two countries closer again? George W Bush will visit Paris and Normandy during his visit Already, the US flag flutters alongside the French in many cafes near the beaches of Normandy. The grass surrounding the American war graves near Omaha Beach has been trimmed and clipped to perfection, in readiness for this weekend's commemoration services. There's no doubt about the gratitude felt by many in Normandy towards the tens of thousands of US and British soldiers who sacrificed their lives to liberate France 60 years ago. Yet many here say these ceremonies will only bring into sharper focus the difference between how selflessly America acted then, and its actions today in Iraq. Rarely have relations between Paris and Washington been so cool, at a political or even personal level, perhaps not since France withdrew from the Nato command several decades ago. Continued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted June 5, 2004 #4 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) D-Day 360 Panoramas: Click here In pictures, Operation Overlord Link... And lots more information:Link Edited June 5, 2004 by Lottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #5 Share Posted June 5, 2004 To be honest with you. This is NOT a day for anti-war protest. This is NOT a day for pro-war politics. This IS a day for the veterans. This IS a day for THEM to remember their fallen comrades. This IS a day for US to pay our complete respect for THEM. IT disgusted me when i saw that anti-war protesters are using this day to protest about the war in Iraq. It also Disgusted me when Bush compared the two wars. We have the lievs we do because of these men. We OWE them everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted June 5, 2004 #6 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) Wun, Could not agree with you more. D Day explained: Link Edited June 5, 2004 by Lottie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daughter of the Nine Moons Posted June 5, 2004 #7 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) National Post Prince Charles, Governor General and Canadian veterans lay wreaths honouring D Day Toronto Star One more time to remember. D-Day turned tide of war June 6, 1944. 1,500 Canadians in France to mark it Globe and Mail Dutch go Canadian for D-Day. Europeans re-enact Normandy landing Toronto Sun Canuck heroes return to Juno This IS a day for the veterans. Right on Wun Dot9M Edited June 5, 2004 by Daughter of the Nine Moons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daughter of the Nine Moons Posted June 5, 2004 #8 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daughter of the Nine Moons Posted June 5, 2004 #9 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) Edited June 5, 2004 by Daughter of the Nine Moons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted June 5, 2004 #10 Share Posted June 5, 2004 We OWE them everything. I don't want to start up an argument here, but I just have to say all this stuff about D-Day being the turning point in the war and the end of the Nazi regime is actually false. The turning point had been Stalingrad Winter 1942-1943, were Germany lost 60% of its tanks and about 10% of its trained army. After that the USSR beat the Nazi's again and again and again and were in Europe by the time we launched D-Day. D-Day was launched after talks with Stalin left the Churchill convinced that any territory liberated by the USSR would immediately have membership forced upon it. Some famous speech actually exists were Stalin said that the west was willing to fight WW2 to the 'last Russian'. However, after talking to Stalin the west realised that if they didn't open a western front then it was most likely the Red Army would wipe out Poland, then Germany, then enter and take France, as well as the southern European states such at Italy, and the north such as Norway. After D-Day Hitler would keep 5 divisions in the west fighting us, while the majority (something like 35 divisions) were in the east trying to hold off the Red Army Behemoth. In Noakes 1998 it says that 5/6's of Germany soldiers who died did so in the east. Now, if we're going to remember these men and their sacrifices, lets remember them for their true victory, in liberating western Europe from being occupied by our then ally Stalin, and not distort History by claiming D-Day was the first time the Third Reich was in retreat. I heard on the news yesterday that 25% of the soldiers at D-Day were Scots... which seems a high number, but then again we lost 75,000 solders in the war so maybe not once you add that to Canadian Scots. So I'm certainly not going to downgrade the heroic acts of my own people before anyone starts insulting me for not giving them respect. These people died to liberate western Europe, they helped make the fall of Hitler sooner rather than later. But lets not insult the 20 million dead USSR citizens and soldiers who died on the eastern front, and whose suffering, blood and sacrifice had truly turned the war 2 years before, and for whom no day is set aside to remember them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #11 Share Posted June 5, 2004 OK talon you cant help yourself can you. MAybe if russia hadnt signed a non-agression pact with a murderous fascist and fought from day 1 they wouldnt have been surprised by the german attack in the first place. I dont want to get into the ins and outs but i seriously cant believe you. You WERE trying to play down their sacrafice. I dont care what you think, this WAS a turning point in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted June 5, 2004 #12 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) you cant help yourself can you. As I said I have no interest in starting a fight in a memorial thread, frankly I find the fact you've started insulting other members in won disrespectful to the dead. MAybe if russia hadnt signed a non-agression pact with a murderous fascist and fought from day 1 they wouldnt have been surprised by the german attack in the first place. Oh, lots of people had non-agression pacts with the Nazi's, including Poland, I take it you would say they shouldn't have been surpirsed by his attack either and their losses don't matter? I hope you remember that WW2 started as a war to liberate Poland from Germany, certainly our people in 1939 didn't think Poland deserved being attacked because it had a none agression pact. I dont want to get into the ins and outs but i seriously cant believe you. You WERE trying to play down their sacrafice. And I already said I'm not playing down their sacrifice, I already gave my respect, I simply want some respect given to 20 million dead people whom you seem not to care about no matter what type of government they lived under. I dont care what you think, this WAS a turning point in the war. I got a Credit 1 BA mark on an essay on Stalingrad, and my last subject in University was Hitler's Foriegn Policy, I think I'm in a far better possition to know about WW2 and someone who has listen to Cold War propoganda which stated the USSR did nothing during WW2. 20 MILLION of their people died! Don't you understand that?! I don't care if they were willing to sit back during the first two years of the war and let the UK empire stand alone, the US did as well. And I don't care if the USSR was a tyranicaly dictatorship, or that we had a 60 year rivalry with them after the war! All I care about is that 20 MILLION people died out there, and NOBODY apart from myself is giving them a second though, because they were Russians, and their sacrfices didn't matter according to you people. You make me sick. Edited June 5, 2004 by Talon S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted June 5, 2004 #13 Share Posted June 5, 2004 And I don't care if the USSR was a tyranicaly dictatorship, or that we had a 60 year rivalry with them after the war! All I care about is that 20 MILLION people died out there, and NOBODY apart from myself is giving them a second though, because they were Russians, and their sacrfices didn't matter according to you people. Well, you are just wrong, I know how it was cause I saw it in a Hollywood Movie! Actually you are indeed quite correct. I am now taking pause...literally...to go out and stand in front of my massive 26' flag pole built with my own hands...and think about all the Russians that died to help defeat Hitler. I am not being fascetious! I really am going out to my flag pole now and relfect on the millions of Russians who died fighting Hitler. D-day was indeed important...but so are the lives of every person who died defeating that monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #14 Share Posted June 5, 2004 I got a Credit 1 BA mark on an essay on Stalingrad, and my last subject in University was Hitler's Foriegn Policy, I think I'm in a far better possition to know about WW2 and someone who has listen to Cold War propoganda which stated the USSR did nothing during WW2. 20 MILLION of their people died! Don't you understand that?! I don't care if they were willing to sit back during the first two years of the war and let the UK empire stand alone, the US did as well. And I don't care if the USSR was a tyranicaly dictatorship, or that we had a 60 year rivalry with them after the war! All I care about is that 20 MILLION people died out there, and NOBODY apart from myself is giving them a second though, because they were Russians, and their sacrfices didn't matter according to you people. You make me sick. LOL well done your such a clever boy. You know just because your at uni doesnt make you the most informed and intelligent person on the face of the planet. BTW dont ever assume that i amnt sparing a thought about the russians. I am well aware of the suffering that they went through. I am well aware the at battles such as the Kursk they were involved in some of the most momentous battles During the war. As usual though you just couldnt help yourself tho. You came in telling us all how we dont have a clue what we're talking about and you ofcourse the most intelligent person around was going to educate us. You know what makes me sick lol your constant "ding dong im so intelligent ive got a degree you know, i got a Credit 1 BA mark on an essay on Stalingrad, and my last subject in University was Hitler's Foriegn Policy, I think I'm in a far better possition to know about WW2 " attiitude. LOL LOL LOL. We all salute your grand intelligence talon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #15 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) BTW you have no idea how intelligent or un-intelligent i am, you have no idea what kind of research i hav looked into about WW2. I believe im well enough informed to pay my respects to the brave men who died so you can be as pompous as you want. Edited June 5, 2004 by wunarmdscissor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted June 5, 2004 #16 Share Posted June 5, 2004 BTW you have no idea how intelligent or un-intelligent i am Uh, yes we do...your posts reveil all........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #17 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Joc mate you know what they say about people in glass houses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #18 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) Heres a wee gem from the past lol. Hitler wasn't defeated by witchcraft. Hitler was defeated by: American Ingenuity American KnowHow American Bombs American Tanks American Soldiers American Determination all much more powerful than any witchcraft ........... ...interesting story though Slaggin me on the intelligence stakes ......................ha ok joc Edited June 5, 2004 by wunarmdscissor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted June 5, 2004 #19 Share Posted June 5, 2004 And you know the rest of that story too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #20 Share Posted June 5, 2004 lol yeah .....outrage from other members, threads gettin closed. It ended all very messily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted June 5, 2004 #21 Share Posted June 5, 2004 lol yeah .....outrage from other members, threads gettin closed. Now....getting back on topic............I actually did go out and gaze at the 4' x 6' American flag and the somewhat smaller Texas flag flying atop the 26' flag pole with the 4" stainless steel ball ...all of my own design... yes I am quite proud of my flagpole ....and I reflected on the Russians who died as a result of defeating Hitler as well as the American and British sacrifices....and it made me think... ....We are all brothers in arms....we should all put our ideological differences aside and through our collective brilliance....make sure that another Hitler doesn't rise out of the Sea of Politics. Maybe Saddam wasn't Hitler...maybe he was worse...none the less....There are many who want our heads on a platter and we must be diligent and remain united in a common effort to defeat any and all who threaten our shores....your shores, my shores....Our Shores... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted June 5, 2004 #22 Share Posted June 5, 2004 (edited) D-Day rememberance isn't for jingoistic bull**** flag waving, not the Union Jack, nor the stars and stripes.... most certainly it SHOULDN'T be for some moron to try to draw parallels between his unjust war on Iraq and the sacrifices make 60 years ago by members of MANY countrys. So long as there is a vet who put his ass on the line when it was needed then the day should be us respecting his right to commemorate those friends that where with him on that day and who didn't come home. Edited June 5, 2004 by Fenris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted June 5, 2004 #23 Share Posted June 5, 2004 So long as there is a vet who put his ass on the line when it was needed then the day should be us respecting his right to commemorate those friends that where with him on that day and who didn't come home. And at this moment there are vets putting theirs on the line in Afghanastan, in Iraq, and around the globe. Not for rallying around the flag of your country and or others? Hmmmm, I thought that is what they died for....so I could stand here in my own yard and have the freedom to salute my flag! What did they die for Fenris? What if not the freedoms we all embrace today...and isn't the flag a symbol of that freedom? Your hatred for the greatest president since Reagan is clouding your thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #24 Share Posted June 5, 2004 I agree an disagree fenris. Its all about the stars and stripes and especially the Union Jack. The union jack was a symbol of freedom, for 2 years we stood alone and it was exactly the Union Jack that represented not only The UK but the free world as a whole and our fight against fascism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted June 5, 2004 #25 Share Posted June 5, 2004 You are however right about one thing. Bush should never have used The D-Day remeberance as a cheap way to spin the war in Iraq. Like I said earlier today is a day for the soldiers NOT politicians. Anyway how can bush possibly , without laughing, compare the two wars???????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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