Wookietim Posted January 7, 2010 #51 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yes, it's from Wiki but it is sourced to NASA Nibs That is a incredible picture... Unfortunately it is not to scale. If it were, then each of those points would be the size of a large city floating around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #52 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'm not going to argue about NASA and the US government being involved with conspiracies to hide aliens. I believe we have other threads about that. I don't know why many people do many things. *shrug* I do know that there is sensitive stuff out there floating around the earth. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that it is alien. Now, back to OP. NO WHERE has Mr. Aldrin stated that he saw an "alien" UFO. Only various pieces of debris that he wasn't sure he could exactly identify. It's like me seeing a big silver bowl in a field. It could be a pot, it could be part of a tractor, it could be a dish for feed or water or IT COULD BE AN ALIEN ARTIFACT FROM MARS. What are the odds that it's one of the boring things? Just because I can't tell EXACTLY what it is, deciding it's alien is just silly. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #53 Share Posted January 7, 2010 That is a incredible picture... Unfortunately it is not to scale. If it were, then each of those points would be the size of a large city floating around... Yeah, they seem to be markers rather than examples that are to scale. Still lots of stuff out there. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted January 7, 2010 #54 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yeah, they seem to be markers rather than examples that are to scale. Still lots of stuff out there. Nibs Something you forget - lots of stuff that is very small in a huge volume of space. It's not like shuttles have to dodge their way through swarms of debris to get into orbit after all... And during the time Aldrin was there, there was even less. So simply assuming it was debris is a less than probable thing... Again, it's very much a possibility that what he saw was debris. But it's not exactly probable that it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #55 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Something you forget - lots of stuff that is very small in a huge volume of space. It's not like shuttles have to dodge their way through swarms of debris to get into orbit after all... And during the time Aldrin was there, there was even less. So simply assuming it was debris is a less than probable thing... Again, it's very much a possibility that what he saw was debris. But it's not exactly probable that it was... Really? Being the first thing to leave debris in orbit was a German V2 rocket in 1942, then Sputnik that not only left bits of small to tiny debris, what about the booster rockets for that bad boy? 6039 items since then and not all recent. Source and super cool graph I'd say that leaves a bunch of stuff he could have seen and that it makes it more probable that it was something mundane. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrom901 Posted January 7, 2010 #56 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) Now, back to OP. NO WHERE has Mr. Aldrin stated that he saw an "alien" UFO. Only various pieces of debris that he wasn't sure he could exactly identify. from where did you get the word "alien" in the first place? A Bolivian Journalist, Mr Eduardo Ascarrunz, has claimed that Buzz Aldrin, the second man to walk on moon, confided in him that a UFO followed the astronauts on the Apollo XI mission. and please dont state your opinion as a fact @ debris.... Just because I can't tell EXACTLY what it is, deciding it's alien is just silly. i agree to an extent.... but what is important is what it actually is.... in other words.... improbable prosaic mundaneties are a blind-mans illusions too.... Edited January 7, 2010 by mcrom901 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted January 7, 2010 #57 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Really? Being the first thing to leave debris in orbit was a German V2 rocket in 1942, then Sputnik that not only left bits of small to tiny debris, what about the booster rockets for that bad boy? 6039 items since then and not all recent. Source and super cool graph I'd say that leaves a bunch of stuff he could have seen and that it makes it more probable that it was something mundane. Nibs Ever been out to sea? There is a lot more debris floating around on our oceans of this world, in a much smaller space, that are about the same size as the majority of the debris in orbit - and you can float around out there without seeing a single piece of it for quite awhile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #58 Share Posted January 7, 2010 from where did you get the word "alien"? When the intial link in the OP goes to a UFO picture and the following quote - Michael Cohen m.cohen@allnewsweb.com A Bolivian Journalist, Mr Eduardo Ascarrunz, has claimed that Buzz Aldrin, the second man to walk on moon, confided in him that a UFO followed the astronauts on the Apollo XI mission. Aldrin allegedly told the journalist that 'The significance of July 20 1969 is not that man's feet touched the lunar surface but that on that day we realised that humans share the universe with other intelligent beings'. NASA is said to have gone to considerable efforts to cover up this UFO event. Aldrin is said to have made the comments regarding his UFO experience on one of a number of trips he made to Bolivia. His interest in Bolivia stemmed from the fact that while in space he saw a flash of light that he believed came from the salt-beds of the Salar De Uyuni lithium mines: The largest lithium deposits in the world. Aldrin is also believed to have had meetings with Andean tribal wise men regarding traditions of ancient extraterrestrial encounters during his trips to Bolivia. I'm going to assume that they are discussing aliens. Or are you stating that my assumption is wrong? a case of imaginary arguments? Well, Mr. Aldrin has stated that this isn't true and all we have is a man's statement. Until this reporter can support his assertion, yeah, he's full of it. I will happily apologize to the guy if he can provide evidence that Mr. Aldrin said this to him. i agree to an extent.... but what is important is what it actually is.... in other words.... improbable prosaic mundaneties are a blind-mans illusions.... Huh? Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #59 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Ever been out to sea? There is a lot more debris floating around on our oceans of this world, in a much smaller space, that are about the same size as the majority of the debris in orbit - and you can float around out there without seeing a single piece of it for quite awhile... Yup. Quite a good sailor and have spent weeks at sea. And? I have seen things on the horizon that looked strange. Almost like they were floating in air. Then I used my binoculars and found that they were ships/animals/garbage that was too far away for me to say exactly what it was. I understand your point, that he could have seen anything, but I disagree that it was improbable that he saw standard old debris. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted January 7, 2010 #60 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Yup. Quite a good sailor and have spent weeks at sea. And? I have seen things on the horizon that looked strange. Almost like they were floating in air. Then I used my binoculars and found that they were ships/animals/garbage that was too far away for me to say exactly what it was. I understand your point, that he could have seen anything, but I disagree that it was improbable that he saw standard old debris. Nibs To point out two things in one post : 1. Your entire set of posts on this thread hinge on the use of the word "Alien" - which you admit was not actually used in the OP and is just your assumption of what they were talking about... 2. How often have you seen these bits of debris? I was in the Navy and on deployment for months at a time. Unless I got close to land, it was rare to see much in the way of debris floating by... especially debris of the size range of 10 cm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #61 Share Posted January 7, 2010 (edited) To point out two things in one post : 1. Your entire set of posts on this thread hinge on the use of the word "Alien" - which you admit was not actually used in the OP and is just your assumption of what they were talking about... Please, tell me that the article linked in the OP isn't discussing aliens. Can you honestly say that the article is not discussing UFO's (as in alien visitors). 2. How often have you seen these bits of debris? I was in the Navy and on deployment for months at a time. Unless I got close to land, it was rare to see much in the way of debris floating by... especially debris of the size range of 10 cm... Jeesh, yeah, it depends on where I was in relation to land or shipping lanes. It also depended on the time of year, weather, etc. I've seen bits and pieces and parts of boats, tires, rafts, dead fish, trees, condoms, beer cans, etc. Your point doesn't make it more likely that Mr. Aldrin saw something other than boring piece of man made space debris. Nibs Edited January 7, 2010 by HerNibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrom901 Posted January 7, 2010 #62 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'd say that leaves a bunch of stuff he could have seen and that it makes it more probable that it was something mundane. also consider the fact that the debris left over from rocket boosters etc.... are in fact tracked & registered.... and that norad/nasa have a pretty good picture as to what is where.... i suppose if they had anything in that vicinity then this thread actually wouldnt exist now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #63 Share Posted January 7, 2010 also consider the fact that the debris left over from rocket boosters etc.... are in fact tracked & registered.... and that norad/nasa have a pretty good picture as to what is where.... i suppose if they had anything in that vicinity then this thread actually wouldnt exist now..... Seriously? What exactly are you saying here? Flat out tell me what you think is going on. I'm getting whomped for assuming something here and so I don't continue, you tell me what you think is going on. Are you stating the Mr. Aldrin did indeed tell this author that he saw a UFO (as in not originating from Earth)and NASA/Norad are covering up the evidence? Is that what you are stating? Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted January 7, 2010 #64 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Please, tell me that the article linked in the OP isn't discussing aliens. Can you honestly say that the article is not discussing UFO's (as in alien visitors). Whether he was or not, your entire argument against me was the simple fact that my references did not have him saying "Aliens" in it... so therefore in order to be fair you have to admit he never said "Aliens" this time either... Do you agree? Jeesh, yeah, it depends on where I was in relation to land or shipping lanes. It also depended on the time of year, weather, etc. I've seen bits and pieces and parts of boats, tires, rafts, dead fish, trees, condoms, beer cans, etc. Your point doesn't make it more likely that Mr. Aldrin saw something other than boring piece of man made space debris. Nibs My point actually does. Earth orbit is a heck of a lot bigger than the oceans of the world put together - and there is a lot more debris in the oceans than in orbit. Therefore if it is so likely to be debris then I ought to have seen a lot more debris while in the middle of the Atlantic than Aldrin did when he was in orbit. So we have come to this - you have created a quote in your own head of what you think Aldrin was talking about and won't accept my response when I said he has talked about the same thing other times... just because one word was not used. Then you proceed to claim that debris in orbit is so thick that it was almost certainly that. There are some problems with your argument here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrom901 Posted January 7, 2010 #65 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Your point doesn't make it more likely that Mr. Aldrin saw something other than boring piece of man made space debris. first you presumed 'aliens'.... and now you are claiming with certainty that the ufo was in fact 'man made debris' i hope your evidence was not that wiki pic or the floating condoms..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hound Posted January 7, 2010 #66 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Buzz haD better be careful or he might find himself in more trouble thn he can ever imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne Supernova Posted January 7, 2010 #67 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Eh, I liked it. Could be a good South Park episode. Nibs Yeah very South Park-esque. Would be hilarious!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrom901 Posted January 7, 2010 #68 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Seriously? What exactly are you saying here? hmmmmmm...... how about lunar peaches...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #69 Share Posted January 7, 2010 This is the first post that mentions aliens, not by the exact word but am I mistaken? This is not regarding "things" that are NOT space junk being controlled by intelligent beings? Is this NOT a good definition of aliens? Several space travelers from way of NASA, claimed to have seen "things" out there, esp. on lunar trips, in deep space. Why would they lie, though some are getting up in years, none seem to be suffering from dementia and were very specific, along with recorded messages back to Houston about "things" up there with them. No it wasn't space junk, unlless "space junk" is controlled by intelligend beings. Good disguse, not as freky as a flying saucer, just harmless space junk, or is that what they really saw? NASA has a good idea, ignore it and it will go away, not hardly. I still wonder what is at Area 51, that "Deadly Force" will be used to keep folks away? My response to the above post. Ok, well we've debunked the idea that Mr. Aldrin stated he saw a ufo. Who else from NASA has publicly stated they have seen UFO's? Source?? There is a ton of junk out there. Area 51? It is a government research area for top secret projects. SECRET. *shrug* Deadly force is used in many places by the military. This one (Area 51) just made it into urban legend zone. Nibs The response to my question about who else has stated they have seen UFO's. Mr. Cooper is discussing aliens correct? Mr. Cooper actually states that he has seen saucer like crafts and that he is clearly discussing Alien UFO's right? gordon cooper They may not be lying... But also remember that they were flying around in an area that was (And still is) somewhat unknown. There may be a lot of things floating around between here and the moon that, on Earth, would be perfectly identifiable that when put in the context of a space mission are difficult for the human eye to recognize... That is not to say that Aldrin and others did not see something truly odd - but we do have to exhaust the prosaic explanations before jumping to the conclusion of aliens.... I'm in full agreement with your statement here.^^ To be fair, Aldrin has been sayign this to any reporter that will listen for at least two decades now... US and elsewhere. When I questioned your statement above, I wasn't being argumentative, I was trying to clarify what you meant regarding "this". Maybe I wasn't clear, for that I apologize. All i am saying is that Aldrin has consistently been talking about seeing UFO's for quite a while now - and not just to foreign journalists... This is not exactly a new revelation. We are dancing around a definition here. I agree, Mr. Aldrin has stated that he saw something he couldn't identify. At no time has he implied that he has seen anything related to aliens, as in travelers from another world/time/whatever. Do you agree? Nibs Again, not being argumentative, trying to clarify that we were saying the same thing. Yes - I never said that he claimed to see "Aliens" - I have simply (and repeatedly now) reminded you that Aldrin has, for decades, related his experience with UFO's. Do you agree? Your statement above, me agreeing below. I agree. I just wanted to be sure we were saying the same thing. No aliens. Nibs IMO - this is just a misunderstanding. Fine, you never used the term Alien but it was used and implicity implied by others. I apologize, you didn't use the word. So I don't understand what it is you think I'm arguing with you about other than the probability of the debris being man made or not. With that, I'm done, you win. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted January 7, 2010 #70 Share Posted January 7, 2010 When I questioned your statement above, I wasn't being argumentative, I was trying to clarify what you meant regarding "this". Maybe I wasn't clear, for that I apologize. Actually that was the problem - In the OP Aldrin relates a UFO sighting - not a "Alien" sighting. I provided you with references where he talks of seeing a "UFO" and your entire argument was based on the fact that he didn't say the word "Alien"... Which he also didn't say in the OP... meaning that your entire argument is based on something you assume he meant rather than what he said... Which is a rather bad basis for an argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #71 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Actually that was the problem - In the OP Aldrin relates a UFO sighting - not a "Alien" sighting. I provided you with references where he talks of seeing a "UFO" and your entire argument was based on the fact that he didn't say the word "Alien"... Which he also didn't say in the OP... meaning that your entire argument is based on something you assume he meant rather than what he said... Which is a rather bad basis for an argument... Ok, cool. I thought I had a reasonable assumption. You didn't. Fine. It derailed the concept of the thread and I got a lesson in a proper argument. Cool. Like I said, I apologized for making that mistake. It was quite obvious to me but apparently not. You win, I was wrong. Dunno what else to say. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookietim Posted January 7, 2010 #72 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Ok, cool. I thought I had a reasonable assumption. You didn't. Fine. It derailed the concept of the thread and I got a lesson in a proper argument. Cool. Like I said, I apologized for making that mistake. It was quite obvious to me but apparently not. You win, I was wrong. Dunno what else to say. Nibs Dude - no hard feelings. I am in a crappy mood today (Have been all week) and I took your argument a bit too personal. It's the fact that I am sitting here with a back that still hurts (I pulled a muscle last week and it still hasn't healed) and still have to be at work in order to sit in a cubicle and do nothing until someone thinks of something for me to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+HerNibs Posted January 7, 2010 #73 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Dude - no hard feelings. I am in a crappy mood today (Have been all week) and I took your argument a bit too personal. It's the fact that I am sitting here with a back that still hurts (I pulled a muscle last week and it still hasn't healed) and still have to be at work in order to sit in a cubicle and do nothing until someone thinks of something for me to do... No worries. Been there. Hope your back feels better soon. Nibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MID Posted January 7, 2010 #74 Share Posted January 7, 2010 care to explain why nasa will not release the photos of said sighting? Because there aren't any.... The AS-11 "UFO" (which isn't a UFO anymore) has ben completely fleshed-out in multiple discussions on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MID Posted January 7, 2010 #75 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I had a lot of respect for Aldrin before that incident and even more since. Personally, I just thought that was Buzz being Buzz... Most people would've capped that idiot straight away I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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