Doctor claims he has evidence of the afterlif

[Ignus Fatuus]

Very possible if you consider the power belief can actually have. What happens to you after death may very well be tied to what you actually believed in life.

Very possible!!! ... nice to hear someone else besides both of my grandfathers, pastors say this. I hope so ... I see so much anger, hate and petty yet I have very little faith to push me through. When I die, I will have my ashes buried on top of half moon cliff in the middle of bum ** * Kentucky along side my father. I would love nothing more than to "earthlight" myself around this wood which has given me so much peace in my life after life.

Much power in belief!!!

[TheBloom]

O'K to disagree ... not O'K to attempt to make a mockery.

I did not make you a mockery.

I do disagree with your opinions on the supernatural though. Get over it.

Edited January 22, 2010 by DukeofNoodleness

[Psycho78]

I'll never understand why so many unshakable skeptics (who have never had a paranormal experience) spend so much time on paranormal topic forums telling the non-skeptics (most of whom have had paranormal experiences) how wrong/foolish/ignorant they are.

Isn't there a book burning or something more constructive you could be doing with your time?

For those truly interested in this topic, I recommend Professor Iida Fumihiko's The Value of Life, which is based on his Scientific Journal Entry that compiles 100s medically documented cases from around the world. It is meant to be freely distributed and not-for-profit.

http://homepage2.nifty.com/fumi-rin/Value_of_Life2.pdf

[TheBloom]

I'll never understand why so many unshakable skeptics (who have never had a paranormal experience) spend so much time on paranormal topic forums telling the non-skeptics (most of whom have had paranormal experiences) how wrong/foolish/ignorant they are.

Isn't there a book burning or something more constructive you could be doing with your time?

For those truly interested in this topic, I recommend Professor Iida Fumihiko's The Value of Life, which is based on his Scientific Journal Entry that compiles 100s medically documented cases from around the world. It is meant to be freely distributed and not-for-profit.

http://homepage2.nifty.com/fumi-rin/Value_of_Life2.pdf

I know, I'm such a pain!

You have no idea how I spend my time, and I don't much care if you think I don't do anything with it. I can assure you that you would be wrong in this assumption though.

Just to add: I'll never understand why people who are so desperate to believe are so quick to label everything paranormal. I've had paranormal experiences(Shock horror), but I am still open to the possibility that it is my own imagination because 9 times out of 10, it is someone's imagination. This does not make me a sceptic, simply logical.

Edited January 22, 2010 by DukeofNoodleness

[Ignus Fatuus]

I did not make you a mockery.

I do disagree with your opinions on the supernatural though. Get over it.

It is not your mockery ...its your way of giving your opinion. Let me be persnickity about things. If you have seen more than I have ... "and I would not have even found this site if I had not been intensly researching "some" things" ... I would to love to know what you know.

On the afterlife ... I have had two near death experiences and have been dead once yet I still live. If you take enough insulin for two large pizza's and go into a diabetic coma before you eat anything, any doctor would tell you that you are either lying or you are dead. Am I dead??? What I "felt" right before I came to in a puddle of sweat and blood is beyond me. Having been a person with both grandfathers as preachers I had little faith. This gave me a little more.

We do not have a clue on what lies ahead of us after death ... yet even though I saw no light or any tunnel before coming too, I felt bliss. Cannot say this has changed my life but it did "wake me up" to what is possible.

Besides this individual experience, I have had two other eye opening experiences in my life which pushed me to find the truth .. not the truth of others.

I cannot say the evidence is there but I can for one say that I have seen the "light" and the "shadow" of things which has gave me an increased will to live. Read my very first topic I ever posted on this website and the last one. Life after life??? I cannot say. Life after life or plainly just life on this planet we as humans do not have a clue about??? ... been there, done that.

I have no ill will against you or any other skeptic on this site but you have got to always remember. It was not long ago that we were the center of the universe and the earth was flat. Skeptics argued against this but facts became clear. We have came so far in our expansion of knowledge yet still know nothing about much of anything ... facts change everyday!!!

Edited to say that with life and death ... just my opinion. On other topics of interest I have seen much and it brings me great joy and a desire to understand. Please read at least my last topic posted and give me a message if you are interested. Being a teacher I have such will for knowledge and sometimes that knowledge comes from others ... even skeptics. Disagree with me on "some" things supernatural. Other things I do have the upper hand ... no persnickity nature about that. Luck, gods will or electromagnetic sensitivity .. all the same to me. I just want to understand.

Edited January 22, 2010 by Ignus Fatuus

[TheBloom]

It is not your mockery ...its your way of giving your opinion. Let me be persnickity about things. If you have seen more than I have ... "and I would not have even found this site if I had not been intensly researching "some" things" ... I would to love to know what you know.

On the afterlife ... I have had two near death experiences and have been dead once yet I still live. If you take enough insulin for two large pizza's and go into a diabetic coma before you eat anything, any doctor would tell you that you are either lying or you are dead. Am I dead??? What I "felt" right before I came to in a puddle of sweat and blood is beyond me. Having been a person with both grandfathers as preachers I had little faith. This gave me a little more.

We do not have a clue on what lies ahead of us after death ... yet even though I saw no light or any tunnel before coming too, I felt bliss. Cannot say this has changed my life but it did "wake me up" to what is possible.

Besides this individual experience, I have had two other eye opening experiences in my life which pushed me to find the truth .. not the truth of others.

I cannot say the evidence is there but I can for one say that I have seen the "light" and the "shadow" of things which has gave me an increased will to live. Read my very first topic I ever posted on this website and the last one. Life after life??? I cannot say. Life after life or plainly just life on this planet we as humans do not have a clue about??? ... been there, done that.

I have no ill will against you or any other skeptic on this site but you have got to always remember. It was not long ago that we were the center of the universe and the earth was flat. Skeptics argued against this but facts became clear. We have came so far in our expansion of knowledge yet still know nothing about much of anything ... facts change everyday!!!

Edited to say that with life and death ... just my opinion. On other topics of interest I have seen much and it brings me great joy and a desire to understand. Please read at least my last topic posted and give me a message if you are interested. Being a teacher I have such will for knowledge and sometimes that knowledge comes from others ... even skeptics. Disagree with me on "some" things supernatural. Other things I do have the upper hand ... no persnickity nature about that. Luck, gods will or electromagnetic sensitivity .. all the same to me. I just want to understand.

Oh lord. Look I corrected you on one thing. All this drama over it really isn't necessary. The only reason I gave my opinion after that is because you got far too defensive. If you read my original post I didn't call you stupid, nor did I imply so. I simply said that your statement was wrong. Which it was.

THEN I gave my opinion on the topic. The advice I gave at the end was purely that. Advice. It was not mockery, and nowhere in my original post did I target you as anything other than giving a false statement.

I do not wish to engage paranormal debates with you, nor do I wish to justify my entire life to a complete stranger on the internet. Your life experiences may have opened your eyes to things you think are there but I am just not swayed that easily.

I used to be Christian. I quickly learned that I didn't believe any of it. Trust me, I tried! I tried to be faithful. But no matter how hard I tried nothing reached out to me.

I am Athiest, but I still live my life in a way that benefits those around me (meaning the World).

I do not need spirituality to achieve humanity in my heart.

That's all there is to it.

Edited January 23, 2010 by DukeofNoodleness

[Rhungobains]

That's the biggest load of crap I've read today - and I've been reading Dan Brown.

[TheBloom]

That's the biggest load of crap I've read today - and I've been reading Dan Brown.

I like your style.

[Eldorado]

I'm pretty sure terminally ill patients wouldn't want there last moments on this planet blindfolded. And if you think you'd see this on a tv show, let alone a family show, you are clearly mistaken. It's unethical.

Well, how do you define dead then?

People come back from this all the time, well the lucky ones do anyway. Would you concede if they ticked all those boxes that they were by definition, dead?

I'd define "dead" as having no life at all.

"Clinical death is now seen as a medical condition that precedes death rather than actually being dead."

source..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death

[Crocodonk]

Ok I just skimmed through this thread, but I didn't see any one mention DMT.

Years ago I saw a show about life after death , and in the show an old woman had a near death experience. She said she saw a white light, and than saw her dead relatives. Her husband who is a skeptic just told her it was from lack of oxygen or something, but she would not accept that as answer, because it was so real to her.

Well I'm going to have to go with her husband on this one.

Years after seeing that show, I tried tried a thing called salvia divornum. If you are unfamiliar with it, it's a legal hallucinogen (well in most states it is)

Salvia is one of the the many natural hallucinogens that were used by tribes way back in the day for spiritual journeys, and such. Now the experience I had from the salvia can't easily be explained, but I can see how tribes men believed it to be spiritual. I was just amazed at how introducing a single chemical into your body, can warp you sense of time, and reality so much. The experience felt like a hours when in reality it was 2 minutes.

The reason I'm telling you this is because not to long after my experience with salvia I thought back to the old lady, and her near death experience. I started thinking what if your brain shutting down releases something that makes you have a personal acid trip. Even though salvia is not acid it was enough for me to connect the dots. So I googled "is a near death experience like taking acid", and I found out about DMT.

Sure enough it's a natural hallucinogen in your brain released in high stress situations, and near death experiences.

It's been I while since I looked it up, but check out the videos by Joe Rogan on Youtube about it.

Now back to my salvia experiance. I'm going to try, and explain it to support what I believe a near death experience is. First I need to explain what my belief on God was at the Time. I felt that there is a God, but he pays no attention to us, we are so small in comparison that he is completely unaware we exist.

With that said when the salvia started to kick in I got very numb, than started to freak out mentally thinking I was going to die. I can't explain the entire experience, but after I thought I was dead. I felt a presence of a gigantic god/animal/creature walking around, but I could not see it I was just aware of his presence, it was like I was just a hair or skin cell on it's body. Small, and insignificant.

So what happened is, Since I thought I was dead, my brain pulled up my thoughts of what happens when you die, and I saw that.

So with a near death experience you got the DMT released, and then your brain takes it from there. People who are content may see angels, loved ones ect, and people that have regrets or fears, might see demons, fire, ect, but really it's what ever was put into the head to begin with.

If a person was told, or believed that when you die, you go to Banana Town the land of the dancing kittens, they might see that.

To sum it up what people see from a NDE is actually matrixing.

[ThePitOfReason]

My father had a massive heart attack in 1976 he was dead for 4 1/2 minutes and he was brought back. He died three other times that same night and they brought him back each time. The next day he was sitting up in his hospital bed upset over being in the hospital. He had no memory of anything from the day before. Years after this he heard of people who claimed near death stuff and he said well he couldn't recall anything and that he must have been going the other direction because he couldn't recall any of it. I have so many loved ones who have now passed on a brother and my father I hope the doctor is going the right direction with this. My brother said a few hours before he passed away that he knew he was going to be with our father. He said he didn't hope it that he just knew it and couldn't explain how. He said it was just how it works and that he didn't need anyone to make him feel better about the afterlife and help him accept it. That he understood how things worked and for me not to worry that he was going to to be ok and in good hands.

[Ashyne]

This statement is so obviously flawed:

Long contends his study shows that accounts of near-death experiences play out remarkably similarly among the people who have had them, crossing age and cultural boundaries to such a degree that they can’t be chalked up simply to everyone having seen the same Hollywood movie.

Once we compare Near-Death Experiences to other mental states or disorders, we find that nearly all mental states and disorders share similar symptoms just like NDEs. For example, how everyone with Arachnophobia has a fear of spiders, how everyone who has Social Anxiety Disorder has a fear of social situations, how everyone experiences the same state of pleasure in a orgasm, just different in their intensity.

Likewise, NDEs are nothing more than mental states that occur at the brink of Death.

[Odds]

Posted Today, 01:31 PM

View Postodds022, on 22 January 2010 - 01:01 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure terminally ill patients wouldn't want there last moments on this planet blindfolded. And if you think you'd see this on a tv show, let alone a family show, you are clearly mistaken. It's unethical.

Well, how do you define dead then?

People come back from this all the time, well the lucky ones do anyway. Would you concede if they ticked all those boxes that they were by definition, dead?

I'd define "dead" as having no life at all.

"Clinical death is now seen as a medical condition that precedes death rather than actually being dead."

source..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death

So your defining legal death, not clinical death then?

So it doesn't matter that one has no signs of life? No heart beat, no corneal response, brain function, breathing... You know, the things that define the living?

Once these things stop, a person is dead. If you were revived after these, you weren't 'near death', you were dead. You just happened to be revived. Simple.

The difference between clinical and legal death is a doctor saying that any more medical care would not be appropriate... Spoken words and a signed piece of paper are the only difference. They both share the exact same traits, the only difference is some are able to be revived with these traits, some aren't. So i don't see any defining factor other than a piece of paper separating the two.

[CausticGnostic]

Exactly. A death certificate is just like a marriage certificate: a legal fiction. Some people just want to privilege being dead from merely shacking up with the dead. Some do it for religious reasons; others, for financial purposes.

Personally, I'd give more credence to NDEs if "dead" Christians sometimes saw Buddha and "dead" Buddhists sometimes saw Jesus. But they don't. "Dead" Christians see Jesus or angels, and "dead" Buddhists see Buddha or bodhisattvas. These "near-death" experiences are culturally conditioned.

Edited January 23, 2010 by CausticGnostic

[Eldorado]

No, I'm talking about being dead...i.e. not a single organ is still living.

Clinical death is the popular term for cessation of blood circulation and breathing.

Most tissues and organs of the body can survive clinical death for considerable periods. (Survive means to live)

......there is no specific duration of clinical death at which the non-functioning brain clearly dies.

Death was historically believed to be an event that coincided with the onset of clinical death. It is now understood that death is a process, not an event.

Crippen, David. "Brain Failure and Brain Death: Introduction". ACS Surgery Online, Critical Care, April 2005. http://www.acssurgery.com/abstracts/acs/acs0812.htm. Retrieved 9 January 2007

As for Legal Death......"A patient with working heart and lungs who is determined to be Brain Dead can be pronounced Legally Dead without clinical death occurring."

I wouldn't call Brain Dead as being dead either.

[Odds]

Most tissues and organs of the body can survive clinical death for considerable periods. (Survive means to live)

That's like writing off your car in an accident and saying, 'nah the transmission can be saved, so my car's not wrecked'.

[Eldorado]

Now you're contradicting yourself.

Clinical Death...i.e. the brain etc are still alive..... is what a lot of people recover from.

[Odds]

Now you're contradicting yourself.

Clinical Death...i.e. the brain etc are still alive..... is what a lot of people recover from.

No... It's not a contradiction, re-read it in relation to what you were saying and the reference i was using.

I've got a feeling this could just go round and round, but anyway...

There have been reports of people being declared legally/brain dead, prepped for autopsies or organ transplants and have come back to life themselves. It has been called the 'Lazarus phenomenon/syndrome'. I'll see if i can find any news reports...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_syndrome

Cases

One example is a 61-year-old woman from Delaware, USA, who was given "multiple medicines and synchronized shocks", but never regained a pulse. She was declared dead but was discovered in the morgue to be alive and breathing. She sued the medical center where it happened for damages due to physical and neurological problems stemming from the event.[2]

Another case is a 66-year-old man suffering from a suspected abdominal aneurysm. During treatment for this condition, the patient suffered cardiac arrest and received chest compressions and defibrillation shocks for 17 minutes. Vital signs did not return; the patient was declared dead and resuscitation efforts ended. Ten minutes later, the surgeon felt a pulse. The aneurysm was successfully treated and the patient fully recovered with no lasting physical or neurological problems.[1]

A 27-year-old man in the UK went into cardiac arrest after overdosing on heroin and ecstasy. After 25 minutes of resuscitation efforts, the patient was verbally declared dead. About a minute after resuscitation ended, a nurse noticed a rhythm on the heart monitor and resuscitation was resumed. The patient recovered fully.[3]

An 18-year-old woman in Missouri, USA, attempted suicide by overdosing on sleeping medication. Resuscitation was attempted, but failed, and she was declared dead. Seven minutes later, her heart started beating and she started breathing on her own again, though she was comatose. The woman regained consciousness 5 days later and was oblivious to what had happened.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/wacky/brain-dead-man-springs-to-life/story-e6frev20-1111114980329

Brain dead man springs back to life

* From: The Daily Telegraph

* November 28, 2007 12:00AM

AN Okalahoma man declared brain dead shocked everyone when he mysteriously came back to life as a nurse prepped him for organ donation.

Zack Dunlap suffered severe brain damage in an all-terrain bike accident and was declared brain dead.

However, he sprung to life shortly afterwards, grabbing the nurse’s arm as she worked around him.

Townsfolk are calling the incident a miracle.

"I think it's the result of people praying in this town, and committing him to the Lord,” said Oklahoma state trooper Betsy Randolph.

“God has a purpose for him. He's got a long ways to go, but he's alive.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5505620/Lazarus-Syndrome-man-comes-back-to-life-30-minutes-after-dying.html

John Whittaker, a consultant at the Royal Preston's accident and emergency department, said it was "not a small thing" to pronounce a patient dead. "You make absolutely certain," he added.

In Mr Wilkinson's case medical staff had worked on him for 15 minutes before acknowledging that there was nothing more they could do to help him.

What i am trying to say is that dead is dead, whether it's clinically dead or brain dead, people sometimes do make it back.

No, I'm talking about being dead...i.e. not a single organ is still living.

I believe in at least some of those cases they fall under this category. No brain function, no heart rhythem or blood circulation, no corneal response, and in one of those cases it seems as if rigamortis had started to set in... To me, and under your definition does that not mean they were dead?

EDIT: I forgot to add this report;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2032591/Woman-comes-back-to-life-after-being-dead-for-17-hours.html

For more than 17 hours doctors failed to detect any brain activity, despite extensive attempts to revive her, including pioneering treatment to lower her body's temperature in a bid to stimulate the brain.

Family members braced themselves for the worst. Tim Thomas, Velma's son, said he and two dozen relatives and friends gathered at the hospital and “prayed and prayed and prayed” before starting to accept Mrs Thomas would not survive.

”I came to the conclusion she wasn't going to make it,” Mr Thomas, 36, told the Charleston Daily Mail. “Her skin had already started hardening, her hands and toes were curling up, they were already drawn. There was no life there.”

Edited January 23, 2010 by odds022

[Eldorado]

I tend not to believe about 75% of what newspapers print.

Why is it called a "near-death experience" and not a "death experience"? Because you are not actually dead?

Is bringing people back from the dead not Dr Frankenstein's forte?

As you have said, this debate could go on forever my friend, so I think we should agree to differ. Have a good Sunday.

[TheBloom]

What about Zombies? They're the living dead..

[Ignus Fatuus]

Oh lord. Look I corrected you on one thing. All this drama over it really isn't necessary. The only reason I gave my opinion after that is because you got far too defensive. If you read my original post I didn't call you stupid, nor did I imply so. I simply said that your statement was wrong. Which it was.

THEN I gave my opinion on the topic. The advice I gave at the end was purely that. Advice. It was not mockery, and nowhere in my original post did I target you as anything other than giving a false statement.

I do not wish to engage paranormal debates with you, nor do I wish to justify my entire life to a complete stranger on the internet. Your life experiences may have opened your eyes to things you think are there but I am just not swayed that easily.

I used to be Christian. I quickly learned that I didn't believe any of it. Trust me, I tried! I tried to be faithful. But no matter how hard I tried nothing reached out to me.

I am Athiest, but I still live my life in a way that benefits those around me (meaning the World).

I do not need spirituality to achieve humanity in my heart.

That's all there is to it.

I will look over everything on this post except where you used to be a christian. I too was a christian. I too tried very hard and yet still got nowhere. It is like Martin Luther who was asked by a peasant about his not having any faith. Luther then stated that even without faith if you are a good person and good to others there will be a place for you in heaven. If there is one ... I hope so. Back to god, I have a hard time believing any of the bible or any other godly manuscript. Yet I still have felt something on my "deathfloor" and have seen a few very intriging things in my life. This has given me enough faith to pray to god once in awhile ... though I usually just get p***ed off at god for the way life is on earth.

Martin Luther stated along with you about the same ... we do not need spirituality or faith, just the ability to share good will and peace with others. Kudo's to you, and good luck with your quest for knowledge!!!

[Ignus Fatuus]

All this new talk about the living dead ... thats me!!!

I by all means cannot prove the fact, yet nobody and I mean nobody takes an insulin shot "THEN" almost immediatly goes into a diabetic coma with no one around and food out of reach and then comes too hours later. Just does not happen!!!

There is a store of glycogen in your liver yet this is stored in the liver of non diabetic persons. This glycogen (sugar) is released when you squirt just a little too much insulin out and need sugar or just need a jolt of energy. I do not have this and if I did ... there was too much insulin.

I AM the walking dead!!! Period, exclamation, no quesion about it.

Plus more than likely at this moment a ding dong to you ...

I do not care. This was a fact as far as I know it. I should not be alive!!! Its not what, when, where, why ... but how I came too as being the question. Doubt I will ever understand it.

I suddenly have this hunger, ... hunger for ........ BRAINS!!!

[Cradle of Fish]

Ignus Fatuus will tell us next that we only use 10% of our brains.

[WoIverine]

Ok I just skimmed through this thread, but I didn't see any one mention DMT.

Years ago I saw a show about life after death , and in the show an old woman had a near death experience. She said she saw a white light, and than saw her dead relatives. Her husband who is a skeptic just told her it was from lack of oxygen or something, but she would not accept that as answer, because it was so real to her.

Well I'm going to have to go with her husband on this one.

Years after seeing that show, I tried tried a thing called salvia divornum. If you are unfamiliar with it, it's a legal hallucinogen (well in most states it is)

Salvia is one of the the many natural hallucinogens that were used by tribes way back in the day for spiritual journeys, and such. Now the experience I had from the salvia can't easily be explained, but I can see how tribes men believed it to be spiritual. I was just amazed at how introducing a single chemical into your body, can warp you sense of time, and reality so much. The experience felt like a hours when in reality it was 2 minutes.

The reason I'm telling you this is because not to long after my experience with salvia I thought back to the old lady, and her near death experience. I started thinking what if your brain shutting down releases something that makes you have a personal acid trip. Even though salvia is not acid it was enough for me to connect the dots. So I googled "is a near death experience like taking acid", and I found out about DMT.

Sure enough it's a natural hallucinogen in your brain released in high stress situations, and near death experiences.

It's been I while since I looked it up, but check out the videos by Joe Rogan on Youtube about it.

Now back to my salvia experiance. I'm going to try, and explain it to support what I believe a near death experience is. First I need to explain what my belief on God was at the Time. I felt that there is a God, but he pays no attention to us, we are so small in comparison that he is completely unaware we exist.

With that said when the salvia started to kick in I got very numb, than started to freak out mentally thinking I was going to die. I can't explain the entire experience, but after I thought I was dead. I felt a presence of a gigantic god/animal/creature walking around, but I could not see it I was just aware of his presence, it was like I was just a hair or skin cell on it's body. Small, and insignificant.

So what happened is, Since I thought I was dead, my brain pulled up my thoughts of what happens when you die, and I saw that.

So with a near death experience you got the DMT released, and then your brain takes it from there. People who are content may see angels, loved ones ect, and people that have regrets or fears, might see demons, fire, ect, but really it's what ever was put into the head to begin with.

If a person was told, or believed that when you die, you go to Banana Town the land of the dancing kittens, they might see that.

To sum it up what people see from a NDE is actually matrixing.

Nah, NDE is nothing like a DMT trip. Trust me. It's really not the same at all actually. Ever hear of the self transforming gnomes of hyperspace? That actually is a pretty dead on sum up of a dmt experience.

[Azalin]

Nah, NDE is nothing like a DMT trip. Trust me. It's really not the same at all actually. Ever hear of the self transforming gnomes of hyperspace? That actually is a pretty dead on sum up of a dmt experience.

Exactly, not the same at all. The brain is dead, therefore cannot function in the slightest, this includes giving off " hallucinogenic trips ".

God Bless, Azalin