The Revolutionary Holocaust

[Superposition]

I have read about Jonestown, and the survivors said that when Jim Jones was not present it was a pretty happy place and everyone pitched in. It presents perfectly the main problem with communism, that it's too easy for one person to gain complete control, transforming it from a communist society into a cult. While someone rules a communist society it technically isn't one, a communist society is leaderless and classless. Stalinist Russia and Maoist China applied a lot of communist ideas but ultimately were totalitarian states. Stalin and Mao were megalomaniacs just like Jim Jones.

My point wasn't that we should live like that, my point was communism isn't in itself evil, it just has a massive flaw that allows the system to rapidly degenerate into a dictatorship. I don't subscribe to communism at all, I'm some kind of a social capitalist.

I was arguing against communist and socialist paranoia, which has needlessly killed hundreds of thousands of people in South America and South East Asia. Just look up the Contras and the CIA's backing of the Labor party in Jamaica against the Socialist party there.

"when Jim Jones was not present it was a happy place" Exactly, when he was not present...but when he was there he very much ruled the people.

I cant disagree with anything you said in this post, as my point was that Jim Jones was basically a dictator himself and therefore it would technically not be a communist state by your definition and is why i took exception to the "best example of a communist state". I agree with your point that the problem with communism is its too easy for one person to gain control which again is why i ranted about Jonestown...thats exactly what happened there. After reading this post i think our opinions are not far apart from one another as my beleif is that Communism in practice and Communism in theory are two completely different things, and that i dont see the Communism in theory ever working in a practical sense in a complex society with large numbers for the very reason you have just pointed out...I can see communism working in a smaller simpler society such as a hunter gatherer type society with no surplus of resources which is why if I were to point to a "best example of Communism" i would use North American aboriginals (only because i am not well educated in other aboriginals) as a form of communism worked quite well for them. But Jonestown is not a good example of communism working, it just highlighs the inherent flaws in it which lead to loss of freedom and liberty.

Anyways, I apologize if i came off rude in my previous post...but i think it needed to be said to at least clarify your position. As you can see from my post count, I prefer to observe rather than post as I dont like to get roped into debating with the extreme views (on both sides) in this forum as my views dont fit neetly into any label. As i said in my last post i do usually find your posts insightful, so thanks for clarifying your position and I look forward to reading your posts in the future.

[Cradle of Fish]

Anyways, I apologize if i came off rude in my previous post...but i think it needed to be said to at least clarify your position. As you can see from my post count, I prefer to observe rather than post as I dont like to get roped into debating with the extreme views (on both sides) in this forum as my views dont fit neetly into any label. As i said in my last post i do usually find your posts insightful, so thanks for clarifying your position and I look forward to reading your posts in the future.

No harm done.

[Ignus Fatuus]

No harm done.

I am truly being filled with hope!!!!!

I have seen so many posts as of late refering to the middle ground. This will solve our problems as the middle are grounded. So much hope these posts have filled me with!!!!!!!!!!

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! .... was that too much???? .... so be it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!........ ..... you bet!!!!!!! ...

[Caesar]

I noticed UM had a great article on this matter The secret history of fascismso I thought it would be neet if I linked it here.