911 -WTC's elevator system Contractor

[peterene]

We don't have flamable liquids above, the jet fuel is gone, all what you have is a few dozen kilogrmas of paper/plastics that might have fall down at .....the B4 level (12m below lobby level) (and probably burned out by this time) - a hour latter

Operating the 700,800 rows at the basement level via thermite placed on the columns from inside the elevator shafts is the best way to initiate the collapse. It's been also our theory on the initiation long before we knew about the ground level fireballs.

More important here is to note the logic and construction of the argument.

An acctual understadning of natual science is above all.

Edited February 7, 2010 by peterene

[merril]

"the street caved in"

another effect of wind from a shaft?

No. You know as well as anybody, as much as you have looked into this. This man suffered the effects of the collapse of WTC2, while he was in WTC1.

Please be straightforward with the facts. Otherwise, you come across as spin doctor.

A little better explanation, from Mr. Esposito.

And, some of the other descriptions of fireball, are just as likely the general debris cloud rolling alond- minus all the fire. They are non-experts, just saying fireball, instead of debris cloud.

This conspiracy is lacking in the explanation of how thermite was smuggled in.

It could not happen. Security was real, and tight.

[Q24]

It could not happen. Security was real, and tight.

Do you really think there was a complete search of each and every vehicle that went into that place? No, of course there was not.

[SolarPlexus]

security is useless if you have insiders

[peterene]

How typical of YOU.

I disproved your naive fanthasy of the (non)fireball travelling 300m down only to burn some guy outside the tower.

Now you want to claim that there were no fireballs and that they just imagined it? The videos above have about 5 quadrillion witnesses, some of them burned badly.

I showed you video of a guy claiming that he saw the core of the tower to collapse and the perimeter still stood. (which is really an expression of the 700,800 rows collapse).

You respond me by some "you are such an obsure artist". God, this is children garten level of discussion.

[Scott G]

How typical of YOU...

peterene, what post are you responding to? Also, I ask that you please be patient with people; insulting their intelligence isn't going to help the discussion I think.

[peterene]

all right, I give it a try

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPtAOtO1nTY

[Scott G]

all right, I give it a try

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPtAOtO1nTY

Thanks for the video peterene. It looks good, although I know I don't fully understand the reasoning. In time, I believe I'll improve my knowledge.

[SolarPlexus]

peterene you appear very knowledgeable do you have a background in engineering or something?

[Shush_rules]

Didn't a Flying Fortress hit the Empire State Building in 1945? Is a B-52 bigger than a 747?

[SolarPlexus]

B52 is A LOT bigger than 767 i think. It droped the A bomb on hiroshima, nagasaki. Its a heavy bombarder, 767 is an airliner. anyway did it really hit empire state building? i never heard of this

[peterene]

Thanks for the video peterene. It looks good, although I know I don't fully understand the reasoning. In time, I believe I'll improve my knowledge.

The basic idea is: NIST says that the bowing of south wall (in the WTC1 case) and the east wall (WTC2) is a proof of their theory of sagging floor trusses. I won't go into detail because such a debunking would take dozens of pages, there are simply too much arguments against it.

The other way to induce the inward bowing for both towers is by cutting 1000 and maybe some 900 row columns at three levels one above other.

These levels are for WTC1 95,98 and 104 (and some work could have been done at 92th floor).

The problem is that four of these columns (1004,1003,903 and 904) were accesible via elevator shafts 6A/7A (with these shafts offline from august untill 9/11). Now, 75 minutes into the collpse there was no visible inward bowing (...(...(..)..)...) and yet as the south tower collapse initiates (9:59) a fireball emerges right from the position of the shaft(s). At the same time a fire on floor 104 developes. The inward bowing is then first observed at 10:07.

The state of the elevator shafts is verified from three independent sources.

Does it seem to fit?......

do you have a background in engineering or something?

HH, thanks. I study high school, although I'm heavily oreintated towards natural science.

Edited February 10, 2010 by peterene

[frenat]

B52 is A LOT bigger than 767 i think. It droped the A bomb on hiroshima, nagasaki. Its a heavy bombarder, 767 is an airliner. anyway did it really hit empire state building? i never heard of this

The B-52 is actually comparable to the Boeing 767 in length, wingspan and loaded weight. However, it was NOT the plane that dropped the A bomb in Japan. That was a B-29. The B-52 was not in service in 1945. It entered operational service 10 years later. The plane that hit the Empire State building was a B-25. It was a medium twin engine bomber about a third the length and width of a 767 and about a tenth of the loaded weight. It also hit at slow speed because it was lost in fog trying to land.

[Q24]

... via elevator shafts 6A/7A (with these shafts offline from august untill 9/11).

It is interesting that these out of service shafts in WTC1 witnessed explosions in the basement and yet with the equivalent active shafts in WTC2, also directly in the path of the impact, no basement explosions were reported. It would seem that when certain elevator shafts were offline, this gave opportunity to install the demolition charges.

[flyingswan]

How typical of YOU.

I disproved your naive fanthasy of the (non)fireball travelling 300m down only to burn some guy outside the tower.

I'm afraid I'm getting rather too used to this sort of reply from peterene. I ask for clarification of some aspect of his theory, or produce a counterpoint, and all I get is abuse.

It is peterene who is producing a whole new theory of how the collapse was initiated, it is up to peterene to produce evidence to back it up. The production of abuse instead of evidence suggests that the necessary evidence will not be forthcoming.

[peterene]

Of course, flyingsan. Your post would be nice if it wouldn't be for one fact - you're lying. One page ago I gave you a 600 words long reply.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=174184&view=findpost&p=3277893

Now, in that post I showed you that there were no significant fireballs emerging from the impact points and thus disproved your fanthasy about some fire from impact floor travelling 300m down and so on.....

[Q24]

Of course, flyingsan. Your post would be nice if it wouldn't be for one fact - you're lying.

In flyingswan’s defence, I don’t think he is a liar… just rather quick to forget points that oppose his view… this is not exactly an isolated incident.

[flyingswan]

Of course, flyingsan. Your post would be nice if it wouldn't be for one fact - you're lying. One page ago I gave you a 600 words long reply.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=174184&view=findpost&p=3277893

Now, in that post I showed you that there were no significant fireballs emerging from the impact points and thus disproved your fanthasy about some fire from impact floor travelling 300m down and so on.....

600 words which included insults and avoided replying to much of my earlier post.

Eg you claimed my theory wouldn't work because I'd need 12000 m3 of air, but failed to mention that the burning region was much larger than that.

Eg I mention that maintenance men regularly access lift shaft pits and would have found any charges and all you say is: Yes, that's typical work of maintenance man - he sits down in the pit every day sniffing explosives. (I would love to have a job like that)

Eg I ask how a charge in a shaft pit damages a column and all I get in reply is: I'm asking the same question: how can a ton of molten iron in a pot reach and collapse the column?

Eg I mention that, contrary to your claim, there were lift shafts right to the top, and all you reply is to quibble about how close some other set of shafts were to the fires.

[peterene]

My patience with this forum: over.

Change of plan. I do not need to waste my free time debating alzheimer affected people.

I've pointed out that you would need to push out 12 000 m³ of air (the volume of one floor) through the lobby elevator doors at F5 tornado speeds only to have the chance for the impact zone fire to get there and then you would need thousands of m3 of burning air to cause the observed effects.

Eg you claimed my theory wouldn't work because I'd need 12000 m3 of air, but failed to mention that the burning region was much larger than that.

Thus the first part of your emotional appeal is demolished.

Point two is that maybe there was a way to cover the charge and maybe they've installed it there in days before the attack and maybe they were complicit. Speculation, I know but it does counter your point "I'm 10000000% possitive that they would have discovered the charges...."

Eg I ask how a charge in a shaft pit damages a column and all I get in reply is: I'm asking the same question: how can a ton of molten iron in a pot reach and collapse the column?

Obviously a ton of molten steel held in a pot close to a column is going to collapse the column or at least dimisnish the capacity by a large number.

Eg I mention that, contrary to your claim, there were lift shafts right to the top, and all you reply is to quibble about how close some other set of shafts were to the fires

Local lobby expresses: end at 78th floor, west face. Major fires (and avilable flaming gas for the elevator ride) at 78th floor? Negative.

Floor 79. Large fires? Smaller fires, east. Floors 80-83 major fires in the east half.

Close-up to these major fires:

if there was enough fire to burn people lower down you would expect fireballs emerging right there:

So the most fire affected part of the tower is not going to produce fireballs when upper floors collapse, yet somehow a fireball travelles 300m down to burn some guy standing well outisde the tower?

I DON'T THINK SO, PERIOD.

[flyingswan]

My patience with this forum: over.

Change of plan. I do not need to waste my free time debating alzheimer affected people.

So there it is, run out of arguments, resort to insult.

[Q24]

So there it is, run out of arguments, resort to insult.

In peterene’s defence, I don’t think that was an insult… just an observation that you are failing to keep up with his argument for some reason.

[aquatus1]

In peterene’s defence, I don’t think that was an insult… just an observation that you are failing to keep up with his argument for some reason.

Oh, it was definitely an insult. Whether it was merited or not is a different question.

I'll remind all posters to make their posts in an adult and civil manner, ideally without referring to people having mental afflictions or medical conditions.

[SolarPlexus]

im with 9/11 truthers on this ...

[aquatus1]

On what?

[flyingswan]

In peterene’s defence, I don’t think that was an insult… just an observation that you are failing to keep up with his argument for some reason.

My impression of peterene is that he has more technical knowledge than most on the conspiracy side, hence his rejection of much of the AE911T claims for demolition, but he normally posts on a conspiracy forum and isn't used to having to defend his ideas.

Hence his tendency to dismiss criticism with a flip insult rather than actually address the points.