911 -WTC's elevator system Contractor

[SolarPlexus]

im with 9/11 truthers on the whole thing

oh and more famous posters/skeptics like Jay insult very often, and they dont get lectured peterene may slip an insult but he exausted virtually all areguments before that

[flyingswan]

peterene may slip an insult but he exausted virtually all areguments before that

Not to my satisfaction, and I was the one asking the questions.

[aquatus1]

im with 9/11 truthers on the whole thing

How vague.

oh and more famous posters/skeptics like Jay insult very often, and they dont get lectured peterene may slip an insult but he exausted virtually all areguments before that

In and of itself, insults are almost inevitable. Like the speeding limit, they are tolerated (to a minimum extent). The real issue is when a poster forsakes any support of their claims by resorting to nothing more than insults. Both Jay and Peter have supported their arguments, and so are both given a limited amount of tolerance.

Incidentally, your idea of fame seems limited to this forum. Get out a little more, and see the rest that U.M. has to offer. The conspiracy forum is just a small part of it.

[SolarPlexus]

im not saying its ok to insult ofcourse , just that there are double standards i never insult and peterene should not have

[aquatus1]

No one should, and in a formal debate, most people here would get kicked out in short order. Unfortunately, this is an internet forum, and we do what we can. Too much and we get accused of being oppressive, too little and we get accused of playing favorites. It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of thing.

The standard, however, is the same.

[acidhead]

The company who was awarded the contract to install and maintain the new elevators at the new Freedom tower

just happens to be the same German Corporation who invented Big Bertha.

-food for thought.

Edited February 14, 2010 by acidhead

[Rolci]

this might be slightly off the topic itself but reading the arguments I can't help thinking: what difference does it make for the participating individuals here whether it was evil terrorists naively thinking that if they destroy a building their interests and demands will be met or an elite bunch of rulers were orchestrating a ritual sacrifice or whatever in the world it was. Will knowing the truth affect your lives either way? If it turns out there is an elite, will you make up your mind to hold together as a nation and start rebelling tomorrow to break their rule? Or if it is terrorists, then what? You really think the US can win, or that you can make a difference? Don't misunderstand, I am not saying you cannot, I am simply curious what the arguers' intentions are here - find out about the truth and act upon it accordingly, or just having arguments for the fun of it because you have nothing better to do to kill time (like spending quality time with family/children or going for a swim/walk). No offense, really, against anyone, I was just wondering.

[acidhead]

this might be slightly off the topic itself but reading the arguments I can't help thinking: what difference does it make for the participating individuals here whether it was evil terrorists naively thinking that if they destroy a building their interests and demands will be met or an elite bunch of rulers were orchestrating a ritual sacrifice or whatever in the world it was. Will knowing the truth affect your lives either way? If it turns out there is an elite, will you make up your mind to hold together as a nation and start rebelling tomorrow to break their rule? Or if it is terrorists, then what? You really think the US can win, or that you can make a difference? Don't misunderstand, I am not saying you cannot, I am simply curious what the arguers' intentions are here - find out about the truth and act upon it accordingly, or just having arguments for the fun of it because you have nothing better to do to kill time (like spending quality time with family/children or going for a swim/walk). No offense, really, against anyone, I was just wondering.

Will knowing the truth affect your lives either way?

Nobody trust a liar... nobody... -unless the listener has been abused.

America is that abused person.

If it wasn't for 911 most americans would not be able to point to Afghanistan on the map..... heck some still can't.

As for Lawful Rebellion... this is up to each individual to decide.... in the UK - its called Article 61 of the Magna Carta.

Its your democratic choice as a citizen and RIGHT as an Incorporated-PERSON under the authority of the British government when the child was born and subsequently signed over to the STATE once registered.

6 words sums today's global society as we are witnessing it:

Princeton-Harvard-Yale - Bullets-Bombs and BANKSTERS

Edited February 14, 2010 by acidhead

[Q24]

Don't misunderstand, I am not saying you cannot, I am simply curious what the arguers' intentions are here - find out about the truth and act upon it accordingly, or just having arguments for the fun of it because you have nothing better to do to kill time (like spending quality time with family/children or going for a swim/walk). No offense, really, against anyone, I was just wondering.

It ultimately comes down to an anti-war message through raising awareness for me. It seems that everyone without exception who understands the 9/11 false flag attack is anti-war (in regard to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the Israeli/Palestinian issue). The pro-war group appear to come exclusively from those who follow the official 9/11 story. I think it’s a worthwhile passtime to put the information out there for people.

[Q24]

If it wasn't for 911 most americans would not be able to point to Afghanistan on the map..... heck some still can't.

Reminds me of this video: -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPXZvbxJY8g#t=00m38s

[acidhead]

It ultimately comes down to an anti-war message through raising awareness for me. It seems that everyone without exception who understands the 9/11 false flag attack is anti-war (in regard to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the Israeli/Palestinian issue). The pro-war group appear to come exclusively from those who follow the official 9/11 story. I think it’s a worthwhile passtime to put the information out there for people.

I agree...

The whole idea that 'they hate us because we are free and prosperous'(GW BUSH) doesn't resonate through my veins as it does with the pro-Invasion crowd.

'everything happens for a reason'----- I believe in this 100% because its true.... everything can be explained through reason and understanding... sometimes it just takes a little longer.... this is wisdom.

When the President of the USA goes on record accusing and pointing fingers at indigenous people by proclaiming 'they hate us because we are free and prosperous' the first thing people should be thinking is:

How the hell did 'we- the free and prosperous people' manage to pizz off these indigenous people?

These indigenous people are not asking for money nor are they asking american's to reliquish their 'freedom'.....

What are they asking?

Do many ever ask themselves what the Indigenous people of the world ask of their conquerers?

The message cannot be any clearer.........

The message is: Please get off my land - you do not have the right to my body, my families body's and our property.

This is the message.

Its a message of Respect, understanding and eventually Peace.

The paranoid who drink the msm coolaide are blinded by propaganda that they are living in a paradise compared to people who have nothing.

Wrong.

People who have nothing is a state of inner-consciousness is as to people who have everything is a state of outer-consciousness.

The sun can't shine everyday.

[SolarPlexus]

totally

[flyingswan]

It ultimately comes down to an anti-war message through raising awareness for me. It seems that everyone without exception who understands the 9/11 false flag attack is anti-war (in regard to Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and the Israeli/Palestinian issue). The pro-war group appear to come exclusively from those who follow the official 9/11 story. I think its a worthwhile passtime to put the information out there for people.

On the other hand, at least in the UK, there are plenty of people, myself included, who don't believe in an inside job but are still anti the wars. Personally, I think having the inside job believers on our side of the argument about the wars is not an advantage, it gives the pro-war lobby the option of tagging us all with the "conspiracy nut" label.

Edited February 15, 2010 by flyingswan

[Q24]

On the other hand, at least in the UK, there are plenty of people, myself included, who don't believe in an inside job but are still anti the wars. Personally, I think having the inside job believers on our side of the argument about the wars is not an advantage, it gives the pro-war lobby the option of tagging us all with the "conspiracy nut" label.

The point is that the official 9/11 story fuels the pro-war lobby, of course it does, no question about it.

[aquatus1]

That isn't a logical conclusion. No more so than saying that the conspiracy theories fuel the anti-war lobby. The two are not cause-and-effect.

[Q24]

That isn't a logical conclusion. No more so than saying that the conspiracy theories fuel the anti-war lobby. The two are not cause-and-effect.

Where do you think the vast support for the Afghanistan War comes from?

Why do you think the public and politicians alike were so quick to support the Iraq War without solid evidence?

Why do you think a good deal of people are calling for war with Iran?

What was the catalyst for this whole ‘War on Terror’?

9/11.

Take that away and the justification drops to below minimum.

[SolarPlexus]

problem reaction solution

ordo ab chao

their main principle

oh and conspiracy is a basic survival and efficiency technique... its a natural universal thing to conspire, make a deal etc

and today they make it sound ridiculous

[aquatus1]

Where do you think the vast support for the Afghanistan War comes from?

Faith. Most people haven't even skimmed over the official story.

Why do you think the public and politicians alike were so quick to support the Iraq War without solid evidence?

Because they tend to be more privy to data than the average person.

Why do you think a good deal of people are calling for war with Iran?

Because most people are uncomfortable with the nation and would like to see it taken down several notches.

What was the catalyst for this whole ‘War on Terror’?

9/11.

Take that away and the justification drops to below minimum.

Agreed. But as I have said multiple times before, and as other people have pointed out to you over and over again, changing the goal posts doesn't fool anyone.

The official 9/11 story isn't the fuel for the war. It's just the most convenient excuse. As I mentioned before, the official story is an academic exercise. War is a political exercise.

oh and conspiracy is a basic survival and efficiency technique... its a natural universal thing to conspire, make a deal etc

and today they make it sound ridiculous

I would say that conspiracy is quite an advanced survival tool, one so advanced it has only been put into practice by a bare handful of species. Even at that it usually remain at a very basic level, usually of hiding resources by one small group from another small group.

There's nothing ridiculous about that. However, a very large group hiding something from an even larger group starts getting unwieldy, to the point of being ridiculous.

[TheSpiritForce]

No, it doesn't. At least, it doesn't in the way you imply it does. It does say something similar to this, but the context is so specific that either you are unaware of it, or you are intentionally not mentioning it.

And I cannot think of how it could be accomplished. Until I see a way in which it could be achieved, I don't have any reason to consider it a reasonable assumption.

No, I don't. I can't see how they would.

I did not say at the time of the impact. I said directly prior to the collapse. So that rules out the first part of your sentence.

And I did not say fireball. I said explosion (the kind that ten tons of thermite would produce). So that rules out the second part of your sentence.

Again, I have to wonder if you are unaware of how the events transpired, or if you are intentionally being misleading about it. But your attempt to disguise the lack of answers in your response by making an emotional appeal to the people injured in the attack is noted.

Saying that it is a plausible scenario does not make it so. Alternatively, saying that it is not a plausible scenario, and then following through by listing three separate points that make it implausible, certainly supports the notion of implausibility.

No, there is another possible answer: You could actually address the three points that were presented showing how it was implausible.

But you didn't do that, did you? No, you just laughed your buttocks off. This makes for an interesting mental image: the two of us in a debate room, the students and faculty politely sitting in the audience, the judges looking at you to rebut the three points of discussion that I put forward, and you...rolling on the ground laughing...

As a former debate judge, I'm not sure I could consider that a valid, intelligent, or even reasonable response. No points awarded.

So, being that trying to laugh away a rebuttal to an argument is generally considered an admission of defeat, I will wonder just how much of what you are presenting is "knowledge", and how much of it is really nothing more than asking questions based on assumptions and theatrics (not that "LMAO" is great theater). At least two of your above...counters, I suppose, because they aren't really answers, have been shown to be dodges of the actual questions. So, again, you are either not aware of the facts (and physics) involved, or you are being intentionally misleading about them. I haven't decided yet which one you are doing; Whether you are ignorant or whether you are lying.

As one who sat through the Watergate hearings and Gonzogate one too...which both judges said, "Do you really expect us to believe that?" and I find you to be very telling on others...I like and applaud you Sir for excellent work here on your presentations of arguments and fact finding about the LMAO report...your style is very telling as I said...keep the good work up, if you will, as I read on further here and LMAO too at how you deal with such absurdity and the misleading of the true invents.

[TheSpiritForce]

On what?

I am with the 9-11 truth seekers as well, as someone, make that lots of someones...are covering up, what's not to be known, big time!

[butafuco]

Im new here and i just wanted to say that as an elevator service/maintenance guy i would have stayed and helped the people in the towers... in our oath we pledge that we will keep people who ride elevators safe by promising a safe means of transportation...(not a qoute from the oath) i rescue trapped passangers all the time and i do it in buildings and equiptment that im not familiar with. these guys knew the equiptment. but i wasnt there so i dont know the orders given... i may not make enough money to risk my life but i risk my life everyday just getting out of bed... we all do. i know that 3/4, if not all of the guys i work with would do the same. thank you for reading...

[aquatus1]

Hello butafuco, and Welcome to UM. I think you will find that there is something for everyone here, and I hope that you will become a contributing member during your stay.

That said, please keep an eye on the dates of the thread you are responding to. There isn't anything inherently bad about necroposting, but it is considered bad nettiquete, and often the people one is responding to aren't even on the board any longer. I will go ahead and close this thread, but please feel free to post in currently active threads, or, if you feel you have an interesting topic, start up a thread of your own. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to contact the moderating team.