Becoming vegetarian can harm the environment

[+Sherapy]

I knew the resident vegan would weigh in eventually.

I don't really have anything to add in regard to why I prefer a diet that involves eating meat, but I do have to mention a few things about farmer's markets and lactose intolerance.

For one, that's great that you have a farmer's market to go to, S... (how do you make the little hearts?). We live in a medieval market town that's had market day every Thursday since the 1300's. OK, maybe it wasn't on Thursdays in 1340, but who knows? Anyway, while the modern farmer's market may have goods available that aren't necessarily local, it isn't as though they don't! Let's not get cynical about it because they are the best places to get locally grown produce. Let's face it, if I want strawberries in the middle of winter, I'm not going to wait until Thursday to see if they are at the market. I'll go to Tesco. If I want fresh meats and veg from down the road, I wait until Thursday and get it in town.

I don't know if this is a confession after all we were saying regarding supplements, but I do take a lactose enzyme that enables me to have dairy. I discovered the hard and painful way when I was 27 that I am lactose intolerant. This is a natural state for the person whose background is centered in the warmer climes. The state of not being intolerant is a genetic variation that people in colder climates adapted in order to cope with harsh winters. This brings me to another point regarding diet.

Not that long ago, my husband and I were hooked on this program where a bunch of athletic guys went around the world to compete in tribal tests of strength/sport/games. "Toughest Man" or something like that. One of the guys was a vegan. One of the challenges took place in Siberia, and when they got there, the tribal leader warned him that eating meat was the only way a person could manage in their climate, doing the physical work that they do. So the first night, when they were passing around this bowl of reindeer offal, and he refused to eat it, he was told that he might not be allowed to participate. And he was cut out before they got into it for this reason because he couldn't cope in the high altitude doing the work that they needed to do. He never even got to compete. My memory is a bit hazy here, but there were quite a few competitions in which he fell short for this reason. Nature has adapted to allow people in harsh climates to take in animal protein (milk) when meat might not otherwise be available for a reason.

Again, I feel I have to stress that I am not worried about what other people choose to eat, nor do I judge people based on this. I don't appreciate people judging me for eating meat after all. But, there is something to that. I saw it on a smaller scale with my own body first hand, and I am a lactose intolerant, warm climate adapted individual. I'm certainly not out wrestling reindeer and traipsing through the Himalayas either.

Indeed, farmers markets that I've been too In Ca.. typically feature locally grown seasonal fruits and veggies......

year round...

If you want a pineapple/papaya you go to whole foods...

Of course a vender could sell cantaloupes in dec, if they wanted, I just haven't seen it...

As you diet is personal and a meat is eater is no less worthy then a veggie eater...

you bring in great points...

[Marby]

Indeed, farmers markets that I've been too In Ca.. typically feature locally grown seasonal fruits and veggies......

year round...

If you want a pineapple/papaya you go to whole foods...

Of course a vender could sell cantaloupes in dec, if they wanted, I just haven't seen it...

As you diet is personal and a meat is eater is no less worthy then a veggie eater...

you bring in great points...

Thanks.

Exactly. I think that is it a bit silly to dismiss the farmer's market just because someone might be selling something that isn't locally grown. The entire point of the farmer's market is for the locals to sell what they raise and grow and that is what you get. Why throw the baby out with the bath water?

[Michelle]

Thanks.

Exactly. I think that is it a bit silly to dismiss the farmer's market just because someone might be selling something that isn't locally grown. The entire point of the farmer's market is for the locals to sell what they raise and grow and that is what you get. Why throw the baby out with the bath water?

I was by no means dismissing farmers markets. I've owned/worked in restaurants my whole life, now have a B&B and have always tried to buy fresh, locally grown produce and meats. We've also grown shiitake mushrooms and sold them at farmers markets and to restaurants. I know the industry very well. I've seen the supply trucks unloaded and people putting them out as if they were their own and telling customers as much. The more variety in their merchandise the lesser the chance that they've grown it all. I usually buy from people that specialize in just a few items.

People also have misconceptions that small farmers don't use pesticides. Small farmers, especially, can't afford to lose produce to pests. It's like the organic 'label'. We were going to get our mushrooms certified organic, we did grow them organically, until we found out what a farce it is. It costs hundreds of dollars to get certified and they don't do any inspections at all. They come out, ask what you do about pests, take your money and never follow up. You can do anything you like from that moment on. That organic label can be taken with a grain of salt.

[Marby]

I was by no means dismissing farmers markets. I've owned/worked in restaurants my whole life, now have a B&B and have always tried to buy fresh, locally grown produce and meats. We've also grown shiitake mushrooms and sold them at farmers markets and to restaurants. I know the industry very well. I've seen the supply trucks unloaded and people putting them out as if they were their own and telling customers as much. The more variety in their merchandise the lesser the chance that they've grown it all. I usually buy from people that specialize in just a few items.

People also have misconceptions that small farmers don't use pesticides. Small farmers, especially, can't afford to lose produce to pests. It's like the organic 'label'. We were going to get our mushrooms certified organic, we did grow them organically, until we found out what a farce it is. It costs hundreds of dollars to get certified and they don't do any inspections at all. They come out, ask what you do about pests, take your money and never follow up. You can do anything you like from that moment on. That organic label can be taken with a grain of salt.

Ah, gotcha. Personally, I'm not worried about whether something is organic or not. It is a pretty big scam. Maybe this is just me, but I really only go to my local farmer's market for the freshest stuff available, and to support the locals. I can't speak for all farmer's markets, but I know that at mine, the majority of the stuff is in season and quite literally, from down the road. Sure, there are some that do ship stuff in, but around here, it's pretty much known who does.

[danielost]

I was by no means dismissing farmers markets. I've owned/worked in restaurants my whole life, now have a B&B and have always tried to buy fresh, locally grown produce and meats. We've also grown shiitake mushrooms and sold them at farmers markets and to restaurants. I know the industry very well. I've seen the supply trucks unloaded and people putting them out as if they were their own and telling customers as much. The more variety in their merchandise the lesser the chance that they've grown it all. I usually buy from people that specialize in just a few items.

People also have misconceptions that small farmers don't use pesticides. Small farmers, especially, can't afford to lose produce to pests. It's like the organic 'label'. We were going to get our mushrooms certified organic, we did grow them organically, until we found out what a farce it is. It costs hundreds of dollars to get certified and they don't do any inspections at all. They come out, ask what you do about pests, take your money and never follow up. You can do anything you like from that moment on. That organic label can be taken with a grain of salt.

that organic label is so the customer can be charged more. one other thing i find disturbing is that a cup of coffee has more posion in it than an apple with pestides on it.

Edited February 15, 2010 by danielost

[Michelle]

Ah, gotcha. Personally, I'm not worried about whether something is organic or not. It is a pretty big scam. Maybe this is just me, but I really only go to my local farmer's market for the freshest stuff available, and to support the locals. I can't speak for all farmer's markets, but I know that at mine, the majority of the stuff is in season and quite literally, from down the road. Sure, there are some that do ship stuff in, but around here, it's pretty much known who does.

I've found the smaller the farmer's market the better. They don't have as much variety, but you can pretty much be sure where the produce comes from.

[danielost]

[/b]

I've found the smaller the farmer's market the better. They don't have as much variety, but you can pretty much be sure where the produce comes from.

i guess it would help if said market only operated during the harvest season. of course if you live in an area where something is always being harvested that might not help.

[Michelle]

i guess it would help if said market only operated during the harvest season. of course if you live in an area where something is always being harvested that might not help.

That's where you have to educate yourself. Even in a place that is warm year around, everything has a season.

[+Sherapy]

Ah, gotcha. Personally, I'm not worried about whether something is organic or not. It is a pretty big scam. Maybe this is just me, but I really only go to my local farmer's market for the freshest stuff available, and to support the locals. I can't speak for all farmer's markets, but I know that at mine, the majority of the stuff is in season and quite literally, from down the road. Sure, there are some that do ship stuff in, but around here, it's pretty much known who does.

Ah, I am with you basically, I am wanting to support my local farmers and as I eat as close to the tree this works..

the selection is limited based on the season I am not bothered by this....

its cost effective for me...

I myself have not noticed any remarkable difference between organic or not..except price..

its seems eating fruits and veggies is just good for you irregardless if you have organic or meat on the plate....

I am interested in reducing my carbon footprint, for me....

[Marby]

Ah, I am with you basically, I am wanting to support my local farmers and as I eat as close to the tree this works..

the selection is limited based on the season I am not bothered by this....

its cost effective for me...

I myself have not noticed any remarkable difference between organic or not..except price..

its seems eating fruits and veggies is just good for you irregardless if you have organic or meat on the plate....

I am interested in reducing my carbon footprint, for me....

We have a very short growing season in this part of the world, at least compared to where I come from, so I do like to support the local economy as much as I can by buying in season produce. It actually is pretty cost effective. When I do buy things that aren't locally grown, I try and buy from the closest place possible. I don't know how they label things in the States anymore, but here, it's pretty cool because the produce has it's place of origin and the farmer's name on the package. I don't drive myself crazy over it, but I do make the effort when and how I can, especially since I don't generally buy processed food.

I don't really worry so much about organics so much as I try to get meat that is listed as free range, or hunted down by someone I know. I personally know the chickens that produce my eggs (they belong to my brother in law), and there is a big difference in taste between battery farm animals and free range animals. I notice this especially on the few occasions that we have to buy eggs because the girls are having a slow week, so I'm sure it's not my imagination or Jamie Oliver's power of suggestion. I'm willing to pay more to get a chicken or a pig that was raised in humane conditions.

[Mattshark]

We have a very short growing season in this part of the world, at least compared to where I come from, so I do like to support the local economy as much as I can by buying in season produce. It actually is pretty cost effective. When I do buy things that aren't locally grown, I try and buy from the closest place possible. I don't know how they label things in the States anymore, but here, it's pretty cool because the produce has it's place of origin and the farmer's name on the package. I don't drive myself crazy over it, but I do make the effort when and how I can, especially since I don't generally buy processed food.

I don't really worry so much about organics so much as I try to get meat that is listed as free range, or hunted down by someone I know. I personally know the chickens that produce my eggs (they belong to my brother in law), and there is a big difference in taste between battery farm animals and free range animals. I notice this especially on the few occasions that we have to buy eggs because the girls are having a slow week, so I'm sure it's not my imagination or Jamie Oliver's power of suggestion. I'm willing to pay more to get a chicken or a pig that was raised in humane conditions.

Well EU laws pretty much secure that now at least. They are really quite stringent on pig conditions.

[Marby]

Well EU laws pretty much secure that now at least. They are really quite stringent on pig conditions.

Yep. This was quite a relief for me. I love pork, but it does break my heart to see the conditions they were being raised in up until recently. It's still not ideal, but I can live with that. My mother in law spends a lot of time in Portugal, and when we are well behaved, she comes back with some Spanish hams that are to die for. Best part about those is that they are truly allowed to roam before they get slaughtered.

[Mattshark]

Yep. This was quite a relief for me. I love pork, but it does break my heart to see the conditions they were being raised in up until recently. It's still not ideal, but I can live with that. My mother in law spends a lot of time in Portugal, and when we are well behaved, she comes back with some Spanish hams that are to die for. Best part about those is that they are truly allowed to roam before they get slaughtered.

Yep, it is part of what makes serrano ham so good!

[Marby]

Yep, it is part of what makes serrano ham so good!

I love my ancestors for coming up with serrano ham. Wipe out civilizations in the New World, bring on the Spanish Inquisition.Cool. Just bring me jamon!

[Mattshark]

I love my ancestors for coming up with serrano ham. Wipe out civilizations in the New World, bring on the Spanish Inquisition.Cool. Just bring me jamon!

The pic makes me very hungry!

[Marby]

The pic makes me very hungry!

Same here! It makes me want to check cheap fares to Spain. But I won't. I'll wait and behave myself.