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Envision

Geokinesis/kinesis's

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aquatus1

That said, I would like to hear exactly what it is that is being claimed here. What exactly, is real about this? All I've heard so far is a rather vague description about energy connecting to the earth.

Edited by aquatus1

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SolarPlexus

i believe you envision :)

You have no right to say what does and does not exist. Can you show me proof that there is a pluto. Or are you basing this off scientists? Same applies to psionics. We go by experience, not by bold guesses. And 33% of the population believes in God, when there is no proof he exists. So, before you say we can't believe in this, you should look at yourselves and what you believe in. I have never BEEN to China, so I actually have no proof it actually exists. Funny how that happens right? Yeah, think about it.

So, please don't say it's not real. You can bring me rocks from Pluto, and I can deny it's soem stupid rock you picked off the floor. You can show my blurt pictures, and I can say PHOSTOSHOP. You can show me videos, and I can say it's faked. You have to believe what you believe, that's what it comes down to.

great point ! people just dont understand this basic thing !

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Mattshark

i believe you envision :)

great point ! people just dont understand this basic thing !

It isn't Solar, it is arguing from ignorance and it is a logical fallacy.

I'm agree with Aquatus, I would like to know exactly what the OP is claiming to be able to do. Geokinesis literally translates to moving the earth Geo = earth kinesis = movement and with out being over dismissive, basic energetics rule that out, as I have stated before, you energy in take is associated with your energy out put, you cannot take in 2000kcal a day and have a 100000kcal output, it just doesn't work.

Again energetics would rule out the other potential meaning of geokinesis which would be movement of tectonic plates.

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SolarPlexus

Can you lift a car Matt? Oh yeah, NO because you THINK you CANT.

basically its how it works yeah

There are accounts, in newspapers at least, of the stereotypical "Mom lifts car to rescue son" story - you think these are "mind over matter" examples? What all else can account for them? Are they authentic? Would it even be possible for the human body to lift and hold such a weight?

totally man there are countless stories like this

i remember reading this one story in the newspaper - IIRC in one town in my country, a 1.5-2 ton farm tractor fell on a kid, and his father lifted the tractor and rescued him

yeah we all know how adrenaline works, but it has limits. im pretty sure placebo (believing) has the final word here, since it can have unlimited intensity

Guys I am perfectly aware that "anything" is not possible. Just a figure of speech. Don't bite my head off. Oops, sorry my head is too big to logically fit in your mouth, therefore I am incorect.

LOL :)

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Mattshark

basically its how it works yeah

totally man there are countless stories like this

i remember reading this one story in the newspaper - IIRC in one town in my country, a 1.5-2 ton farm tractor fell on a kid, and his father lifted the tractor and rescued him

yeah we all know how adrenaline works, but it has limits. im pretty sure placebo (believing) has the final word here, since it can have unlimited intensity

LOL :)

Placebo is not the same as believing and is far more limited in effects than adrenaline.

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eqgumby

I really think that this starts to look like a religion thread and we descend into the "I have faith" realm.

There are clearly two sides here, one of disbelief, one of "faith" for lack of a better word.

From the believers side:

All things are possible. The human mind is infinite and limitless. What we see is not always what actually is.

From the skeptics side:

Science. Physics. Show us some proof of this, because if it is real, it opens up a whole new realm of science, and puts what we know of physics and how the world works on its ear.

This is why this always happens. We wander through the "new posts" section, see one that strikes our fancy, read it, and say..."What the hell!? How can they blithely make earth-shattering claims like it's just no big deal!!?

I will say this though: All these youtube videos, of teens with their shirts pulled up over their faces...? Frauds. All of them. Their logic is flawed, and they show us nothing but parlor tricks that can be accomplished by the most junior of magicians assistants. Pulling your shirt over your face will not keep the government from hunting you down to exploit your x-powers. And the "I don't have to prove anything" or "I'm too lazy to bother", and the "I don't want to be dissected in some secret government lab" excuses are all very old. Look right here in this very forum. You will find 4 year old or more threads of teens saying the EXACT same thing. Verbatim.

That's why the skeptics get so vocal and insistent.

My recommendation:

Frauds, go away. All you will do is get eye-rolls from most here. You will soon be gone, like all the others before you. Stop moving pencils in your bedroom. Do it in a lab, for the sake of humanity and the sake of science.

Those truly interested in psi style abilities, approach this from an honest perspective. The mind is a mystery in and of itself. What is the mind capable of? Can the human mind MANIPULATE matter? Is it possible that human consciousness could possibly open up an entire new branch of physics?

But for the love of Pete, we really wish you guys would stop adding a word in front of "kinesis" and calling it a power or ability, or presuming that a person could learn how to do it, when the reality is IF a person could do these things so simply and easily it would change the world forever.

EDIT:

I won't be trolling around looking to bash believers, but I will continue to keep an eye out for REAL psi type abilities, and intelligent discussions related to the mind over matter question. That's what any "kinesis" ability boild down to, mind over matter, and a shattering of physics as we know it.

Edited by eqgumby

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SolarPlexus

i dont think theyre frauds... they just thought people are more open on this kind of forum... its "unexplained mysteries" not "explained mysteries"

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eqgumby

i dont think theyre frauds... they just thought people are more open on this kind of forum... its "unexplained mysteries" not "explained mysteries"

Who do you think are not frauds? The ones that post youtube videos of them performing tricks that you or I could learn in an hour?

http://www.ehow.com/video_2378359_magically-move-pen-shadows.html

Notice how one thing you NEVER see them do, is move the pen with say....confetti all around it?

http://www.world-of-magic.co.uk/newestpen_pencil_tricks_1.htm

http://www.magical-tricks.com/Penomenon.htm

This is how EASY it is to create a video of people magically moving a pen. This is why it's just NOT believable when people do it, and claim magic powers of the mind, without submitting themselves to scientific scrutiny.

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SolarPlexus

well thats someone else, not our posters... dont use frauds to colorate someone who MAY NOT be..

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eqgumby

well thats someone else, not our posters... dont use frauds to colorate someone who MAY NOT be..

MAY NOT.

A big may not.

What do you think the odds are that they are not frauds or somehow mistaken or deluded?

Is it coincidence that all of these "abilities" that wind up on youtube are replicate-able with a $20 kit or for that matter free?

I'm not willing to argue the point. There is no argument.

Discuss the amazing, discuss mind over matter.

Don't post a video of trees in the wind and a parlor trick and expect applause. That's all I'm saying.

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Envision

I think it is unfair to say just becuase other people are frauds, doesn't mean I am or it's not real. I deserve a clean slate.

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eqgumby

I think it is unfair to say just becuase other people are frauds, doesn't mean I am or it's not real. I deserve a clean slate.

I think you deserve the SAME scrutiny and benefit of the doubt as ANYONE that comes here or to any other forum with claims of powers that defy the laws of nature and physics as we know them.

That's all I am saying really, that as far as we know, it's impossible, show us, enlighten us, and for the love of GOD, change the world! We could all use a swift kick in the jimmy!

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SolarPlexus

i think the problem here is that people dont really want publicity in their lives... am i correct Envision?

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arglebargle

Weell, Psychokinesis means to manipulate kinetic energy using your mind, doesn't it? So how come we can control our limbs, with our minds, but not the space directly surrounding us for example? The obvious thing would be to say that well, its not a physical part of us. But if everything is made up of atoms, how come we can control a certain number of atoms, we can grow and shrink in size, so the number of atoms we can directly affect is variable, so is it the atom properties that changes everything, or how does this all work? Does anyone even know for sure the answer?

I asked my teacher a number of these questions and he went "Hmm. Interesting. Now im off for coffee" so I never got a good answer, and my interest in physics and such got extinguished around that time. It wasn't until many years later I started looking up on stuff again, but theres so much to read, and I'm not really sure where to start. One thing is for certain though, I haven't discounted psychokinesis yet.

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lookingfortruth

do what you just did 3 more times and i'll consider you legit :)

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PsiPup

And the point of proving anything to anyone is what again? Self gratification? Honestly as I have stated in several posts, there are numerous reasons why the people that DO have certain abilities don't come forward. I can only imagine the scrutiny they would get. Even if someone DID prove it to someone else, then no one else would believe it because they weren't there to witness such.

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eqgumby

i think the problem here is that people dont really want publicity in their lives... am i correct Envision?

So, out of the DOZENS of people, perhaps HUNDREDS that come to THIS site alone and claim to have powers...NONE of them want any publicity?

I'm not buying.

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Agent. Mulder

And the point of proving anything to anyone is what again? Self gratification? Honestly as I have stated in several posts, there are numerous reasons why the people that DO have certain abilities don't come forward. I can only imagine the scrutiny they would get. Even if someone DID prove it to someone else, then no one else would believe it because they weren't there to witness such.

the most Prominant being, they cant actually do what they do, infront of other people.

go figure.

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Envision

It's not that I want publicity. But I already admitted this. If you guys think I am crazy, scientist will think I am crazy. They'll think something is wrong with my body since it doesn't agree with science, and I'll be an experiment for the rest of my life. I really don't want that.

And I am not proving anything. I said for the third time, I am trying to enlighten people.

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Mattshark

Weell, Psychokinesis means to manipulate kinetic energy using your mind, doesn't it? So how come we can control our limbs, with our minds, but not the space directly surrounding us for example? The obvious thing would be to say that well, its not a physical part of us. But if everything is made up of atoms, how come we can control a certain number of atoms, we can grow and shrink in size, so the number of atoms we can directly affect is variable, so is it the atom properties that changes everything, or how does this all work? Does anyone even know for sure the answer?

I asked my teacher a number of these questions and he went "Hmm. Interesting. Now im off for coffee" so I never got a good answer, and my interest in physics and such got extinguished around that time. It wasn't until many years later I started looking up on stuff again, but theres so much to read, and I'm not really sure where to start. One thing is for certain though, I haven't discounted psychokinesis yet.

Because you don't have a neural network to control surrounding atoms and importantly, you do not operate on a quantum scale. This means those type of signals break down before they have the chance to to have such an effect, which mean if you could transfer energy in that method it would basically, go everywhere without control.

Can grow and shrink atoms? No we can't mate, sorry. Again, we do not operate on that scale. We operate on a molecular, not an atomic level.

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Mattshark

And the point of proving anything to anyone is what again? Self gratification? Honestly as I have stated in several posts, there are numerous reasons why the people that DO have certain abilities don't come forward. I can only imagine the scrutiny they would get. Even if someone DID prove it to someone else, then no one else would believe it because they weren't there to witness such.

How about increasing knowledge, improving lives, helping people.

If we didn't set out to show things, science would never get anywhere.

Actually, if you could do it repeatedly in a controlled environment and shown in a papers, then yes people would take it seriously.

And finally, psi, people are coming forward on here all the time and claiming things, but won't go to a university? Sorry but this is a far more public place to claim such abilities that in a lab with maybe 2 people who don't have to expose you to mass media.

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Mattshark

It's not that I want publicity. But I already admitted this. If you guys think I am crazy, scientist will think I am crazy. They'll think something is wrong with my body since it doesn't agree with science, and I'll be an experiment for the rest of my life. I really don't want that.

And I am not proving anything. I said for the third time, I am trying to enlighten people.

How can you do that with out being able to even explain to use what geokinesis is? Just claiming you have some unknown power isn't enlightening us, it is just giving more questions to us.

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eqgumby

It's not that I want publicity. But I already admitted this. If you guys think I am crazy, scientist will think I am crazy. They'll think something is wrong with my body since it doesn't agree with science, and I'll be an experiment for the rest of my life. I really don't want that.

And I am not proving anything. I said for the third time, I am trying to enlighten people.

I don't think your crazy.

Scientists wouldn't think something was "wrong" with you on any level, and you wouldn't be an "experiment" the rest of your life. That's x-men fantasy stuff.

If you want this stuff to be accepted as reality, then it must be presented to science, the world, in an arena of reality. As long as it's left on forums by what appears to be teens (and almost always is on youtube), and in comic books or fantasy novels, that's where it will stay.

If we accept that even 10 percent of the claims here at UM alone are real, that would mean there are at the very LEAST, dozens of psi-powered teenagers out there.

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arglebargle

I don't think your crazy.

Scientists wouldn't think something was "wrong" with you on any level, and you wouldn't be an "experiment" the rest of your life. That's x-men fantasy stuff.

If you want this stuff to be accepted as reality, then it must be presented to science, the world, in an arena of reality. As long as it's left on forums by what appears to be teens (and almost always is on youtube), and in comic books or fantasy novels, that's where it will stay.

If we accept that even 10 percent of the claims here at UM alone are real, that would mean there are at the very LEAST, dozens of psi-powered teenagers out there.

If you could move matter with your mind, I think you'd be studied. Not neccesarily in some underground laboratory full of weird equipment, but definetely poked and prodded and put through certain tests for years on end. This would only result in one of two things; either you'd be discounted as a fraud and ridiculed for awhile, or you'd be hailed as some kind of hero and you'd never be allowed a moment to yourself. Everyone would expect you to solve things for them and so on, I assume.

That's what I think at least.

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Agent. Mulder

If you could move matter with your mind, I think you'd be studied. Not neccesarily in some underground laboratory full of weird equipment, but definetely poked and prodded and put through certain tests for years on end. This would only result in one of two things; either you'd be discounted as a fraud and ridiculed for awhile, or you'd be hailed as some kind of hero and you'd never be allowed a moment to yourself. Everyone would expect you to solve things for them and so on, I assume.

That's what I think at least.

yeah no kidding, i mean "i have money issues/i want a divorce/i need an A+ on my math test, so can you do me a favour and blow some wind around, or shake this little patch of earth. Thanks"

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