Small Plane Crashes into Office Building

[ShaunZero]

Whether you like what he did or not is purely subjective, so everyone needs to quit getting upset. Some people can probably see why someone may have done something like this. Some people can only be pushed or take so much. An example: If someone murders someone in my family, I find it 100% justified for me to find that person and torture them, force them to beg for their life, and then kill them. To others it may not be justified, and they may see me as a monster. Morality is purely subjective.

And for the sake of our human intelligence, don't paint the IRS to be something remotely "innocent". And don't reply to me as if I accept what this man has done, because he doesn't even know who he killed, or if they were involved in any of the decisions that may have screwed his life up.

What I will say is that this man is alot less of a "sick person" than alot of other killings that occur for obliviously ridiculous reasons, sometimes no reasons at all.

Evil people and people who sympathize with evil people are the same to me.

Define evil in an objective way.

They say Americans are arrogant [insert insult here] who think their country is the center of the universe. Well, it doesn't help when foreigners are so interested in our country and know more about it than they do about their own countries.

How would you know this? Studies? Source?

Edited February 18, 2010 by ShaunZero

[Marby]

Instead of whining that everything sucks, why not work toward making a positive change? If it means that much, put your all into it and try to do it without killing people who have never personally done anything to you.

Any sympathy for some idiot that flies a plane into a building intending to kill others is severely misplaced and really a bit sick. He's not a tragic hero. He's a stupid schlub that who wasn't man enough to hack reality.

I can understand frustration with the government. I can understand hard times. Been there, done that. But there is never justification for what this guy did.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Marby

[acidhead]

Whether you like what he did or not is purely subjective, so everyone needs to quit getting upset. Some people can probably see why someone may have done something like this. Some people can only be pushed or take so much. An example: If someone murders someone in my family, I find it 100% justified for me to find that person and torture them, force them to beg for their life, and then kill them. To others it may not be justified, and they may see me as a monster. Morality is purely subjective.

And for the sake of our human intelligence, don't paint the IRS to be something remotely "innocent". And don't reply to me as if I accept what this man has done, because he doesn't even know who he killed, or if they were involved in any of the decisions that may have screwed his life up.

What I will say is that this man is alot less of a "sick person" than alot of other killings that occur for obliviously ridiculous reasons, sometimes no reasons at all.

agree 100%....

Some need to take a step back from the television and join reality.

Reality that somebody is knocking at the back door and it isn't Al Qaeda.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Pseudo... foreigners ARE looting your country.

You guys have been set up to take the fall.

You are being sacrificed as we speak.

Please elaborate.

Define evil in an objective way.

I'm not going to get into a debate about philosophy and morality, but if you think attempting to murder innocent people isn't definitely a bad thing, you should seek help immediately.

How would you know this? Studies? Source?

Acidhead and others are proof. It always amazes me when foreigners know so much about, or are so interested in US politics. I've spoken with Canadians, Frenchies, Dutchies and others who don't have a clue about their countries' politics, but know every thing about American politics.

Not that I mind, or I don't want them to share their opinions regarding US politics. I'm just saying, it's weird when someone accuses you of believing America is the center of the world, all the while knowing everything about America and not a damn thing about his/her own country or any other country.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Pseudo Intellectual

[ShaunZero]

A few people aren't proof of anything. If you think that way, you need to read up on science.

I'm not going to get into a debate about philosophy and morality, but if you think attempting to murder innocent people isn't definitely a bad thing, you should seek help immediately.

Define innocent. Just kidding, playing Devil's advocate.

EDIT: Actually, on that note, here's a hypothetical situation. Say that in reality(apart from opinion), healthcare reform would be better than our current healthcare system. Say that your father has cancer but can't afford the medical attention needed to help save his life. Say that if healthcare reform passed your father would live. Now let's say one of the main opponent's of healthcare reform only wants to prevent the bill from passing for selfish reasons, still holding the knowledge in the back of his head that the reform would indeed help many people get the medical attention they currently can't afford. Now, if through this man's workings healthcare reform didn't pass and your father died, would some, even good people, not think twice about killing that man? Of course they would. Maybe not kill, but wish negative things on that person. A situation like this would divide the population's opinion on whether it was justified or not. If you would kill this man, and anyone called you a horrible person, the logic used to justify calling you a horrible person can be used to make this man two times worse than you, since he has no motive to the death's he could potentially and knowingly cause.

Now, I'm not saying this is the type of situation this man was in, but it may be what he THOUGHT. He may have thought the IRS was out to get him, and that they screwed his life. Maybe true, maybe not.

Edited February 18, 2010 by ShaunZero

[Pseudo Intellectual]

When did I say every foreigner was like this?

[thefinalfrontier]

Im hearing here at 5;00 pm EST that this guy Stack intentionally flew his plane into an IRS building killing him and one person in the building is not accounted for,

CBS TV news

Oh and he left a blog or something that was on his computer but it has been taken down,

Heres a link to the story with a video about this incident,

HERE

Edited February 18, 2010 by thefinalfrontier

[James L]

okay one very upsetting thing...embeddedart.com is the site where joe stack left his manifesto and the FBI apparently contacted the site hoster to remove the webpage. If that's not an infringement on freedom of speach i don't know what the F is. REALLLLY ticked off now that they would do that. This will go unjustified. Are you serious FBI? WTF? It's a call for war in itself if you ask me. This country is so far gone manipulated it's disgusting.

Anyway shaunzero I appreciate your being logical and objective. Others, I appreciate your desire for order and wellness and good things. We need both in this world.

the thing about suppressing the whole point of this action and they will turn it into whatever they want it to look like rather than what Joe Stack was trying to say and letting people decide for themselves......F these people. When looking deeply enough this country is obviously in a disgusting state of turmoil. It just looks like it's not because so many are so numbed out with all the stuff they have. The US will either be ravaged by others or break out with internal turmoil...in our lifetime...unless some great change for order happens, I imagine.

[+HerNibs]

okay one very upsetting thing...embeddedart.com is the site where joe stack left his manifesto and the FBI apparently contacted the site hoster to remove the webpage. If that's not an infringement on freedom of speach i don't know what the F is. REALLLLY ticked off now that they would do that. This will go unjustified. Are you serious FBI? WTF? It's a call for war in itself if you ask me. This country is so far gone manipulated it's disgusting.

Anyway shaunzero I appreciate your being logical and objective. Others, I appreciate your desire for order and wellness and good things. We need both in this world.

the thing about suppressing the whole point of this action and they will turn it into whatever they want it to look like rather than what Joe Stack was trying to say and letting people decide for themselves......F these people. When looking deeply enough this country is obviously in a disgusting state of turmoil. It just looks like it's not because so many are so numbed out with all the stuff they have. The US will either be ravaged by others or break out with internal turmoil...in our lifetime...unless some great change for order happens, I imagine.

Seriously? He's dead. Died trying to harm others. No rights for him.

It's freaking evidence.

Besides, his pitiful poor me rant is all over teh interwebs.

Jeesh dude, how freaking bad is it in Jersey?

Nibs

[Siara]

okay one very upsetting thing...embeddedart.com is the site where joe stack left his manifesto and the FBI apparently contacted the site hoster to remove the webpage. If that's not an infringement on freedom of speach i don't know what the F is.

The guy doesn't have freedom of speech anymore. He's dead. If anything, this is a violation of freedom of the press. If the site didn't mind removing it I see no problem.

[Tsukasa]

The guy doesn't have freedom of speech anymore. He's dead. If anything, this is a violation of freedom of the press. If the site didn't mind removing it I see no problem.

The question is when was it removed? Before his death, or after his death?

Also note, freedom of the press and freedom of speech are the same thing.

[+HerNibs]

Evidence in a crime. Police (any branch) can seize evidence of a crime.

Nibs

[Tsukasa]

Evidence in a crime. Police (any branch) can seize evidence of a crime.

Nibs

Then why did MSN post it up if it was seized?

All you need to do to seize a posting on the internet is copy and paste, its not like its on a piece of paper.

[James L]

are you serious? you don't have to remove an internet site to seize it...you print it out

[Q24]

It’s difficult to defend the morality of Joseph Stack’s final protest…

It’s also difficult to argue he could have got his message out any more effective way.

I can’t call this one.

[James L]

it's a freedom of speech violation, I can't see it any other way right now. The FEDERAL BUREAU of INVESTIGATION (why the hell are they telling people what to do? Don't they investigate things?) had something destroyed that was in govt's interest to be gone and peoples' interest to stay there (so they could manipulate things how they want). They don't want the people getting uppity now and they'll do what they want to suppress...and it will go forgotten why he says he did what he did and people will remember what all the biased media outlets had to say (after the govt people tell them what to say). I read it a few hours after the incident and then I just looked at the site again 20 minutes ago and it's gone now with this message:

This website has been taken offline due to the sensitive nature of the events that transpired in Texas this morning and in compliance with a request from the FBI. To see an archived version of the original letter, please go here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html. Please visit our forum if you wish to discuss anything related to this incident: Texas crash pilot left suicide note on Web site - embeddedart.com.

Regards,

T35 Hosting - www.T35.com

don't give me that crap about he's dead he has no rights and he's a terrorist he has no rights....yadda yadda. I have a friend charged with terrorism for riding a bike down the street and looking suspicious the night before a protest. In reality he was riding a bike down the street to see a friend and then bagged with 3 days in jail, 4 years of lawsuits and $10,000 to make riding a bike not look like terrorism and jailtime. Also have had friends get charged for terrorism by being in a road with 100's of other people during protests. Brave New World coming up, 1984 and everything. see what happens when freedom of speech and peoples' rights get destroyed piece by piece.

This guy was an American with an American website hosted by an American host speaking out to other Americans. The rights of all of those people and organizations are are now getting neglected by the FBI's action to remove that

Edited February 18, 2010 by James L

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Don't you just love it when people make unverifiable claims on the Internet to win a discussion?

[Tsukasa]

Don't you just love it when people make unverifiable claims on the Internet to win a discussion?

What claim is that?

[James L]

grumpymcgrumperstein 112 points 4 hours ago[-]

Without the advocation of violence, that material would get like 456 upvotes on reddit.

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grumblecunt 38 points 2 hours ago* [-]

**** it, I can make this reply even shorter.

One person, against such odds, must use extreme measures; even so, they run the risk of going unnoticed or being noticed for the wrong reasons.

Many people, on the other hand, need not do anything but put down their tools and stop work. They may stop, make their demands, and sit quietly until those demands are met; because when enough people stop, the entire nation stops.

Stop forcing people to go the full Kaczynski. You force them to do this through your inaction.

You all know what the problem is. You all understand that if enough of you were to protest, the nation could grind to a halt, leaving you free to demand the change you need. But you don't do it. Instead, you wait until someone snaps, and then turn your noses up and say "good heavens, man; how uncouth."

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pottersfield 9 points 2 hours ago[-]

And I quote "I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the

American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by

striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction

that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous

political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire

life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only

answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of **** at the top have known this all

along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along."

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angryboy 2 points 1 hour ago[-]

Goddamn, between this comment and the one you made on my post the other day about suicide, you are clearly an extremely insightful individual. You see right through all the bull and you tell it like it is. The fact that you have negative comment karma is testament to reddit's shittiness.

Anyway, Amen, brother. Keep on preaching the truth.

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mardish 2 points 9 minutes ago[-]

Insight is often controversial.

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Dawbs89 42 points 3 hours ago[-]

Exactly. I was surprised to see this much criticism of it. These are the exact same ideas that everyone mindlessly upvotes every day, but this guy tried his best (albeit misguidedly) to actually do something.

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jayho 40 points 2 hours ago[-]

You are spot on. While misguided, this man concisely articulated his complaints, demonstrated how the system refused to listen to his complaints, decided he didn't want to be part of the system anymore, and conceived an elaborate plot to end his own life. I personally don't think he intended to really kill anyone besides himself, just to create as much property destruction as he could. Let's face it, he probably created millions of dollars of damage in the building he hit and the property he burned down is worthless to the bank which most likely owned it (most likely insured which is a loss to the insurance company). If he wanted to kill people he probably could have come up with a way to ensure more deaths. I think this was mostly done as an act of symbolism.

As far as considering him a crackpot or lunatic as others have stated, I really can't disagree more. Sure, this isn't the way to accomplish the change he wanted, but to him it is better than being screwed over for the rest of his life. He railed against big brother and had his website taken down! As far as the IRS goes, they are notorious for retroactively enacting laws to punish activities and people for what they consider tax evasion...even if it's perfectly legal currently.

tldr: suicidal man with real grievances decides to cause millions of dollars in damages and leave an explanation of why he did it (so there is no doubt) is labeled a lunatic.

http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/b3p5z/austin_irs_plane_bombers_suicide_note/?already_submitted=true

Edited February 18, 2010 by James L

[Pseudo Intellectual]

What claim is that?

“don't give me that crap about he's dead he has no rights and he's a terrorist he has no rights....yadda yadda. I have a friend charged with terrorism for riding a bike down the street and looking suspicious the night before a protest. In reality he was riding a bike down the street to see a friend and then bagged with 3 days in jail, 4 years of lawsuits and $10,000 to make riding a bike not look like terrorism and jailtime. Also have had friends get charged for terrorism by being in a road with 100's of other people during protests. Brave New World coming up, 1984 and everything. see what happens when freedom of speech and peoples' rights get destroyed piece by piece.”

This seems to happen in in many discussions, mainly during health care debates.

[ShaunZero]

When did I say every foreigner was like this?

What you did was generalize. See:

They say Americans are arrogant [insert insult here] who think their country is the center of the universe. Well, it doesn't help when foreigners are so interested in our country and know more about it than they do about their own countries.

That's like me saying "white people can't dance".

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Nope. "Foreigners" means some foreigners, not all foreigners.

[ShaunZero]

Nope. "Foreigners" means some foreigners, not all foreigners.

Do you not understand what a generalization is? Hell, why did I even ask. Of course you didn't mean "all", who takes that kind of thing literally? But you did generalize them. Playing that card just makes you sound desperate for a defense.

Edited February 19, 2010 by ShaunZero

[James L]

peoples' legal rights are being destroyed all the time. There are fortunately times where important egalitarian and just legal rights are gained as well, but it seems to be less often.

Also, I've traveled quite a few countries and been exposed to many many many other nationalities. It does seem that in general, foreigners know more about american social movements, politics, and economics than Americans do. It may be because they get objective news and it may be because the US is so very powerful (more powerful than Americans experience because Americans don't have to live with many of the imperialistic decisions they make) and it may be both and or something else....but I have met too many people abroad that know way more solid facts and information than I've met domestically

[James L]

kind of ironic that someone would be upset abotu govt. corruption and oppression, do something about it, and then the govt. would prove him right by taking down his website. hah