Why God would create science

[aquatus1]

Really? I though M theory was still waiting on that neutrino detector they were working on. Read an article on Discovery a few months back about that.

[Fenris]

A few people maybe waiting, but M theory settles most of the problematic area's that have had folks arguing for years, enough to warrent considering it having more validity...

If the likes of Hawking is convinced, then I'm unlikely to disagree (And last I heard he was still advocating M theory over Superstring)

[paradigm_blue]

aquatus1,

Thanks for your reply. You actually described the exact scenario I was talking about regarding the holographic theory. I really enjoyed reading it.

Also I re-read my post and realised that it was a bit ambiguous. I wasn't trying to imply that some scientists were committing suicide because of others finding evidence of God.

What I meant was that some scientists were committing suicide over what they discover in the field of quantum physics. I hear that it's such a bizarre science and some of the consequences of their findings are a little baffling.

For example, the saying.."if a tree falls in the forest and no-body hears it fall, did it make a sound." Well I've heard it talked about in the realm of quantum physics that if no-body or nothing was observing the tree in the first place, that tree did not exist.

Maybe you or Fenris can help me understand this a little better. Also my understanding is that in the quantum world, things exist in particle or wave form and they change when observed or measured. Therefore implying that if things are not observed or measured by something else, they really don't exist.

My heads hurting just writing about this stuff. Can you two help me understand this a little better.

paradigm

paradigm

[FreyKade]

God wiped out all evil, not only would man be deprived of challenges, but he would be a blind follower of God.

isnt that what was happening in the garden of eden. i mean god told adam and eve not to eat from that tree...i dont remember reading about him saying why they cant.. but i could be wrong

[brave_new_world]

God is everything including a universe without God. There is no limit to God. God not only created everything but IS everything whether it be science, religion or athieism. God is the athieism in the athiest.

[KBA]

So, for faith to work, God has to hide himself as well as possible. That mean, there has to be a rational, alternative, exlanation for things. If God made him/herself, blatently obvious, people would not have faith - they would know - and there is no challenge in knowing...

Woah woah stop right there buddy.

Is the world supposed to be a game then? God wants to see how many of his little human creations will believe he exists against overwhelming evidence to the contrary? What's wrong with people knowing for certain he exists? That means more people would willfully choose to go to heaven, and if God loves humanity, he would want that too, no?

What you have is a contradiction here

..........God loves humanity

God won't show himself, causing MANY more humans to suffer in hell.

Take me for example. I sincerely and absolutely believe that Yahweh, or any other religion's God does not exist, and there most likely is no God. Now, if Yahweh came forward and proved himself, then said follow me and have eternal life, well, you'd bet I'd become a Christian. But until then, which religion is supposed to be correct? If you aren't a Christian you're going to hell. If you aren't a muslim you're going to hell. Etc, etc.. well that's a very unastounding lot of claims with no evidence. If you're believing based on faith, then you've got about 1000 potential correct Gods to choose from or so. Good luck. A Christian believes that I am incorrect, as well as every other religious person out there. But if there's no evidence of a God, and we know that men would create a God even if there wasn't one.. then why believe in a God? Eternal insurance plan?

God is everything including a universe without God. There is no limit to God. God not only created everything but IS everything whether it be science, religion or athieism. God is the athieism in the athiest.

Now that's just silly. You call yourself a Christian, yet you have beliefs that are absolutely contradictory to what Christianity holds as true. In fact, I don't even understand what you're trying to say, because it doesn't make any sense. "God is everything", well.. that means God is not a conscious being, meaning there is no God as religion explains it.

Edited February 14, 2007 by KBA

[+Link of Hyrule]

IMO, if there is a God, then one of the challenges of life, is to have faith. I don't believe a lack of faith will condemn one to hell, but I think faith is essential to the development of the soul.

So, for faith to work, God has to hide himself as well as possible. That mean, there has to be a rational, alternative, exlanation for things. If God made him/herself, blatently obvious, people would not have faith - they would know - and there is no challenge in knowing...

So, God would create a history with evolution. The Universe would have defined laws. Things could be explained...

Evil would have to exist. Because, if God wiped out all evil, not only would man be deprived of challenges, but he would be a blind follower of God.

So, people who follow God, should not be afraid of science, or evolution. If anything, the attention to every little detail, should afirm that this could not have happened by mere chance... Skeptics would rather believe that there are billions of Universes, and we are just here by chance. But to me, a God, or a creator, is much more logical...

The Babel fish is small, yellow and leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.

Now it is such a bizarrely impossible coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistence of God. The arguement goes something like this:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," say Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn’t though of that" and promply vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

THe quote seemed appropriate here......

[brave_new_world]

Now that's just silly. . "God is everything", well.. that means God is not a conscious being, meaning there is no God as religion explains it.

Only silly to a mind that cannot comprehend what I am saying. There are many Christian mystics that would agree with me (in actual fact it is through studying them that i came to these conclusions, with my own intuition collaborating). Does not Jesus say "I and my Father are one?"

For me to say "God is everything" I am saying that not only is He (we shouldn't call God a he but an "it") not a conscious being but also a conscious being. Because God is EVERYTHING.

The question isn't what is God? But what isn't God? Because there is nothing that isn't God. To say God can only be this or that, is to create God in your own image. Even though technically you can say Im doing the same thing, at least the image I describe of God is one of infinite possibility.

Infact t describe God in any way using concepts and words is to build it in one's own image. God is both image and imagelessness but also transcends these two opposites. This is my opinion.

You call yourself a Christian, yet you have beliefs that are absolutely contradictory to what Christianity holds as true. In fact, I don't even understand what you're trying to say, because it doesn't make any sense.

No top be a christian is to "Love God with all one's heart and one's neighbour as yourself." Also no body can tell me what a true non-contradicting christian is because there are thousands of different denominations. I take my lead with the Christian mystics like Meister Eckhart, St John of the Cross, William Law, George Fox etc.

My views only sound contradictory to mainstream christian beliefs but they do not contractdict that of the perennial philosophy (well actually they do because according to christian mystics, having a belief is contradictory to truth because truth transcends belief).

So I still maintain that I am a christian but I reject the doctrine that believing in Jesus as my only saviour will bring deliverance, I reject organized church going, and even to strictly abide by the Bible. Jesus said that the "Kingdom of God is within" and so that is where I look for God's guidence.

Edited February 14, 2007 by brave_new_world

[+Link of Hyrule]

Christian. Christ-ian. Christ-follower. bnw, you have stated in previous posts that you don't even know if Jesus existed. How can you be a Christ-follower (ie, Christian) if you are not even sure that the one who you claim to follow exists? Maybe you could be classified as a follower of many of Jesus' teachings, but not a follower of Jesus himself.

[Staari]

I dont think God created science ..... *thinking* ..... humans created science with their\our intelligence. We observe, study and learn, then carry out (sometimes extremely stupid) experiments so we can understand our future, environment, us, also to better our lives, which doesnt always happen as proven when people use it wrongly like on animals, in war, etc ...... you get the picture.

*Sigh* .... sometimes I feel like im contradicting myself .... but I tried and gave my opinion.

~*~

[brave_new_world]

Christian. Christ-ian. Christ-follower. bnw, you have stated in previous posts that you don't even know if Jesus existed. How can you be a Christ-follower (ie, Christian) if you are not even sure that the one who you claim to follow exists? Maybe you could be classified as a follower of many of Jesus' teachings, but not a follower of Jesus himself.

Very simple, because I foolow the symbolic message of Jesus. Jesus doesnt have to be real for that. Whether he was a real man or not, it doesn;t matter. Why should that make a difference to me loving God with all my mind and my neighbour as myself???? I still call myself a christian, amd yes more of a follow of his teachings than in the "personality or jesus" or "in the flesh of jesus". But a christian is also someone who follows the teachings of jesus.