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Karlis

Circumcision should be a crime

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_Nyx_

I can't agree on making it illegal as it is every parents right to raise there children as they see fit. If we wanted law to dictate how we raise children we would be looking at a society where the legal system and government has invaded the most private of people lives. If the government gets involved in this it will open a flood gate of do gooders that will have a microscope over everyone dictating how one raises a child.

If we went down this road we would have to make it illegal for everyone and condemn those that practice it, just how well would that go over with the Jewish community and the freedom of religion. We can't just say it's illegal for everyone except this one special group. We can't stop children from getting vaccinations aka shots cause it hurts them right.

The practice does not pose a threat to young boys nor does it leave an infant traumatized for life. Of course this is my opinion nothing more.

:tu: For an adult, on the other hand, it will be traumatic...at least I'd have to assume so.

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MissMelsWell

thumbsup.gif For an adult, on the other hand, it will be traumatic...at least I'd have to assume so.

That's what a doctor told my friend when he considered doing it in adulthood. Apparently, it's VERY painful, and takes a long time to heal when the procedure is performed on an adult male. Whereas on a baby boy, it's litterally just a little local anesthetic (if that) and snip. It heals in less than a week. On an adult male, it's not nearly that easy or painless.

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_Nyx_

That's what a doctor told my friend when he considered doing it in adulthood. Apparently, it's VERY painful, and takes a long time to heal when the procedure is performed on an adult male. Whereas on a baby boy, it's litterally just a little local anesthetic (if that) and snip. It heals in less than a week. On an adult male, it's not nearly that easy or painless.

With only the merest possibility of extreme pain in that area, most men would need a powerful good reason to get it done. Love will only get ya so far... :lol:

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The Silver Thong

:tu: For an adult, on the other hand, it will be traumatic...at least I'd have to assume so.

I don't want to get to graphic but the healing process would be a nightmare in a young or older adult. I mean to this day I often wake up with morning wood and if I'm trying to heal I imagine it would hurt like hell. Not to mention when a guy finishes peeing he has to do the shaky shaky and ouch again. I would have to tell work I'm taking time off for medical reasons and they would want to know why LOL plus thats probably a good month with out sex of any kind, can't have that no no no. If I were to get it done now I would say screw it, I like my turtleneck LOL

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_Nyx_

Both my boys healed quickly with very minimal discomfort. Diaper changes and wiping the area and putting whatever cream they gave me on it seemed to have been the worst for them; and within a week, they were good to go. :)

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The Silver Thong

Both my boys healed quickly with very minimal discomfort. Diaper changes and wiping the area and putting whatever cream they gave me on it seemed to have been the worst for them; and within a week, they were good to go. :)

Pretty much as I remember nothing of it lol. To boot I was given up for adoption when I was born and the "state" had me circumcised. I'm not to sure on those Canadian stats posted earlier as I think from just general guy talk and playing lots of sports as a kid young adult. I saw other winkies as Nib's calls them and thats why I thought I was normal LOL ok maybe a bit above normal LOL sorry had to say it hehehe. I so can't believe I'm 37 :lol:

Edited by The Silver Thong

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_Nyx_
:lol: it's a rare guy that will refrain from winkie bragging

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The Silver Thong

:lol: it's a rare guy that will refrain from winkie bragging

My name use to be Mike Oxlong but wow. I had to change it to silver thong :rofl: I'm so immature sometimes it makes me feel like I'm back in high school LOL

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Hugh

And you do understand what a culture shock that would be to most American families right? Currently, about 92% of Canadian men are NOT circumcised... where as about 80% of American men ARE. You're seeing it from your own cultural bias i think. I'm 43, Like I mentioned, I have only really known of 2 men who were not (that I knew of, I'm sure there were more I didn't know about) and it was hard on both of them from a cultural point of view. Now, it might be that fewer and fewer parents circumcise their boys, but I know ALL my friends did to their sons. Can't think of a single one that did not.

Perhaps you're seeing it from your own cultural bias as well...

Worldwide male circumcision rates are only around 10 to 20% so it's the minority...

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_Nyx_

My name use to be Mike Oxlong but wow. I had to change it to silver thong :rofl: I'm so immature sometimes it makes me feel like I'm back in high school LOL

:w00t: that's a good one!!

*ahem*

I mean, grow up!

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The Silver Thong

Yes mam :(

Oh man who am I kidding, I'll be a kid till my first triple bi pass woot woot.

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Michelle

Perhaps you're seeing it from your own cultural bias as well...

Worldwide male circumcision rates are only around 10 to 20% so it's the minority...

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/

Circumcision statistics are difficult to obtain because of the large number of locations in which circumcisions are performed in the United States. Different sources provide varying results. The time frame is also important because circumcision rates have varied from year to year.

History. Wirth (1980) published circumcision statistics obtained between July 1963 to December 1965 by the Cycle III of the Health Examination Service of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, a result of physical examinations of 12- to 17-year-old boys.1 The numbers relate to the incidence of circumcision in the late 1940s and early 1950s. The findings are set forth in Table I.

Table I

Census Region Northeast North Central South West

Whites 83% 89% 74% 74%

Blacks 68% 52% 31% 54%

Combined 81% 86% 63% 73%

Wirth reported that 76% of all boys in the survey were circumcised—whites, about 80% , and blacks about 45%. Wirth emphasized that, in some hospitals, more than 90 percent of boys were circumcised.1 Wirth's data are consistent with those reported by Laumann et al. below.

Laumann et al. (1997) used data from the National Health and Social Life Survey.2 That survey questioned men who were born from 1932 through 1971. Laumann reported that the overall incidence of circumcision in U.S. born men was 77 percent - ranging from a low of about 31 percent in 1932 to a high of about 85 percent in 1965 and declining to about 77% in the last year of the survey.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She was referring to the US, where as you can see is much more than 10 to 20%.

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Michelle

http://www.circinfo.net/who_in_the_world_gets_circumcised.html

Globally approx. 30% of men are circumcised [World, 2008b]. This figure was based on the most detailed analysis to date, carried out by the World Health Organization (WHO) in 2007, and is a minimum estimate. Of these, 68% are Muslim and 1% Jewish [Weiss et al., 2008a; World, 2008b]. Such a high rate for elective surgery involving the genitalia suggests important net benefits. Moreover, in most western countries circumcision, where practiced, tends to be a family tradition that has nothing to do with religion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Out of curiosity I looked at worldwide statistics.

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Ketzer

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/

Circumcision statistics are difficult to obtain because of the large number of locations in which circumcisions are performed in the United States. Different sources provide varying results. The time frame is also important because circumcision rates have varied from year to year.

History. Wirth (1980) published circumcision statistics obtained between July 1963 to December 1965 by the Cycle III of the Health Examination Service of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, a result of physical examinations of 12- to 17-year-old boys.1 The numbers relate to the incidence of circumcision in the late 1940s and early 1950s. The findings are set forth in Table I.

Table I

Census Region Northeast North Central South West

Whites 83% 89% 74% 74%

Blacks 68% 52% 31% 54%

Combined 81% 86% 63% 73%

Wirth reported that 76% of all boys in the survey were circumcised—whites, about 80% , and blacks about 45%. Wirth emphasized that, in some hospitals, more than 90 percent of boys were circumcised.1 Wirth's data are consistent with those reported by Laumann et al. below.

Laumann et al. (1997) used data from the National Health and Social Life Survey.2 That survey questioned men who were born from 1932 through 1971. Laumann reported that the overall incidence of circumcision in U.S. born men was 77 percent - ranging from a low of about 31 percent in 1932 to a high of about 85 percent in 1965 and declining to about 77% in the last year of the survey.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

She was referring to the US, where as you can see is much more than 10 to 20%.

Your statistics are from the 70's, even in Canada the rate was pretty high back then. (Which is why Silver thong, who's Canadian, saw a lot of circumcised boys when he was younger) It seems to vary from 60 to 70% depending on the survey nowadays in the US.

You also have to think that most of these statistics are taken from hospital records. They record the number of circumcisions made on newborns.

Remember that there's a lot of immigrants in the US, and since circumcision rates are low worldwide, it's safe to assume that many immigrants are uncircumcised. The problem is, foreign people are not part of the statistics, so I'm pretty sure the real circumcision rate is much lower than what the statistics say. The statistics only show that 60-70% of babies born in the US are circumcised, not that 60-70% of all men are.

Edited by Dasmian

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Space Commander Travis

This has been one of the most entertaining threads for a while.

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mklsgl

I can't agree on making it illegal as it is every parents right to raise there children as they see fit. If we wanted law to dictate how we raise children we would be looking at a society where the legal system and government has invaded the most private of people lives. If the government gets involved in this it will open a flood gate of do gooders that will have a microscope over everyone dictating how one raises a child.

If we went down this road we would have to make it illegal for everyone and condemn those that practice it, just how well would that go over with the Jewish community and the freedom of religion. We can't just say it's illegal for everyone except this one special group. We can't stop children from getting vaccinations aka shots cause it hurts them right.

The practice does not pose a threat to young boys nor does it leave an infant traumatized for life at least I'm not. Of course this is my opinion nothing more.

For Jewish males, it happens on Day 8, in the home by a certified Mohel.

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HerNibs

For Jewish males, it happens on Day 8, in the home by a certified Mohel.

What do they do with the "bits" after the snip?

Nibs

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theGhost_and_theDarkness

Ok. . .I'm just gonna add my two cents and leave the thread back to its hilarious-ness.

I don't care who calls me shallow or whatever, but if I saw an uncircumcised. . .er. . .winkie (?) I would run away. I can't help it, they're weird looking to me. I hate hurting people's feelings, but it would just be an unconscious reaction. I never saw an uncircumcised one before a few months ago when I got curious and looked it up on the internet. I think I went into shock. . .and I guess I have to say that it probably is a culture thing, as I suppose I have sort of been conditioned to see a circumcised one.

My b/f has known a few men who got it done later in life, and they actually preferred being circumcised. The sensitivity wasn't really an issue, it was a plus. . .as many girls with circumcised guys would say, if sex were any more pleasurable to them, it almost wouldn't be worth it at all for the girl.

As for the hygiene thing. . .I think people need to be honest with themselves. Guys, in general, aren't the most hygienic creatures. . .and from what I've read, in order to fully avoid infections or bacteria that could cause infection in partners, the guy has to clean his junk multiple times a day and very thoroughly. I, personally, do not know any guy with this kind of dedication to hygiene. Even asking for a once a day cleaning seems to be stretching it for most men.

I already have issues with my kidneys and bladder. . .I don't want to put my UT health in the hands of a guy(. . .erm. . no offense. . .) If for no other reason, that would probably be why I wouldn't want to have sex with someone who was uncircumcised. . .its just too much of a risk on my part.

And, needless to say, I had it done on my son. My b/f wouldn't have it any other way. He is very opinionated on the subject.

I think they have recently started a mass circumcision thing in Africa to help with the spread of HIV. . . I know there were studies earlier in the decade, but, if I'm remembering correctly, they took it back up not too long ago. I wish I could find the article I read on it, but I can't remember where it was.

Anyways, I think making such a thing illegal is ridiculous. Circumcision has many more benefits than it does drawbacks (*cough*). . .seeing as though, as a parent, you will be responsible for your child until they are 18, I think its necessary to do, in those years, what you think is the best medical choice. You could wait until your child can consent, but then you would be putting your child in more pain and distress than if it had just been done to begin with.

To me, getting a child circumcised is like a preventative measure. . .like a vaccine. You get it done in hopes that your child will be healthier in the long run. It doesn't always have to do with religion or cosmetics, and those that think so aren't looking at the whole picture.

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HerNibs

@ ST -

Seriously hon, some one cut off part of your winkie and you don't wonder what was done with the bits?

Nibs

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Michelle

They put it with what the plastic surgeon removes from old ladies faces and make luggage. :lol:

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HerNibs

Hmm...seems that may be partially true (not the luggage part :D).

Adult circumcisions are often performed without clamps and require 4 to 6 weeks of abstinence from m********ion or intercourse after the operation to allow the wound to heal.[73] In some African countries, male circumcision is often performed by non-medical personnel under unsterile conditions.[74] After hospital circumcision, the foreskin may be used in biomedical research,[75] consumer skin-care products,[76] skin grafts,[77][78][79] or β-interferon-based drugs.[80] In parts of Africa, the foreskin may be dipped in brandy and eaten by the patient, eaten by the circumciser, or fed to animals.[81] According to Jewish law, after a Brit milah, the foreskin should be buried.[82]

Source

EATEN?!?!?!?

Nibs

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theGhost_and_theDarkness

Eaten!?

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. :wacko:

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J.B.

/Avoids commenting on the ingestion./

I agree with what someone said earlier on this thread: It's just an attempt to make healthcare cheaper for the people who don't deal with circumcisions. It's not a /real/ concern, it's an economic one. Considering that Mass is going for its own state-paid health care option.

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The Silver Thong

@ ST -

Seriously hon, some one cut off part of your winkie and you don't wonder what was done with the bits?

Nibs

I keep them bits in a jar beside my bed and every night I go to sleep I say. Oh man I'm so glad I don't remember LOL. Seriously though, considering it was the government that had me snipped, the bit's where probably donated to a reverse circumcision patient......... what ? stranger things have happened, maybe I'm thinking :unsure:

:D you said winkie :P

Who said eaten :angry: thats just not right, not right at all I say... Nib's it was you, thats it not reading another of your posts for at least a week LOL

Edited by The Silver Thong

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The Silver Thong

For Jewish males, it happens on Day 8, in the home by a certified Mohel.

That would be called a Bris I do believe. I don't think I had a Bris, but they did the deed anyway.

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