[Merged] Dyatlov Pass incident

[Mattshark]

I have not, but im assuming you have?

It seems people on this site find a possible explaination and say "there we go, must have been X" no matter that they haven't done any real research which might disprove "X".

Im not suggesting that it wasn't hypothermia brought on by an avalanche, just that there was no mention of it on the OP.

No, I can't read Cyrillic! I am just going on what seems most likely given the area and the limited real information available.

[Mattshark]

seems like people are really reaching to try to explain the tongue aspect in a scientific manner. nobody is gonna convince me that a scavenger came, ignored the other dead bodies, as well as other choice parts of the woman {i.e. eyes, ears, internal organs, genitalia) and decided to take just her tongue. wild animals DO NOT work that way. scavengers are opportunistic feeders, and would have gorged themselves on most if not all of these parts. while i'm not saying something paranormal happened, I AM saying that it wasn't a scavenger... that makes less sense than a friggin ufo or bigfoot.

Yes they do, depending on the size of the animal and if there was disturbance around them they would stop quick enough. Foxes are known to just take the tongue from dead cattle for example.

[Samuronin]

Yes they do, depending on the size of the animal and if there was disturbance around them they would stop quick enough. Foxes are known to just take the tongue from dead cattle for example.

Good point, seems to me that if the missing tongue was really caused by a scavenger, Artic Fox this would be my culprit, after all it ts fairly small in size and it is native in Russia.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Samuronin

[Mattshark]

Good point, seems to me that if the missing tongue was really caused by a scavenger, Artic Fox this would be my culprit, after all it ts fairly small in size and it is native in Russia.

[TheSearcher]

This would be the cullprit in your opinion?

[Mattshark]

This would be the cullprit in your opinion?

I think it would be a good culprit, small enough and known in the area and most definitely precocious enough to approach much larger animals.

[bigdaddyinge]

Yes they do, depending on the size of the animal and if there was disturbance around them they would stop quick enough. Foxes are known to just take the tongue from dead cattle for example.

do you mind citing your source of this information, for i've never heard of it. i HAVE heard of foxes eating the tongues of dead cattle before, along with the eyes, ears, and udders..... mmmm, where have i heard that before? oh yeah, it was my last post. this site, http://mynarskiforest.purrsia.com/ev17adit.htm, acknowledges that artic foxes actually hoard food in large caches, rather than wasting food. i've read this in other sites as well.

um... that's not a fox... it's an american marten.... not found in russia. a pine marten is, although it probably isn't the wastefull feeder you are grasping at either. here's a link for info on the pine marten...http://http//www.treesforlife.org.uk/tfl.pinemarten.html

try listing some sources for your guesses and maybe they'll gain credence.

Edited March 16, 2010 by bigdaddyinge

[Isensee]

I can't believe someone actually has voted for werewolf/vampire.

Concerning the missing tongues - tongue is one of the first bits of corpses the wildlife usually goes for so I see no problems in explaining that.

That all said, I do agree a little with TheSearcher - USSR did have a lot of secrets and while I doubt it's anything supernatural(personal opinion based on factual evidence), the KGB and the rest of the Government facilities could have probably labeled the case confidential.

I could be wrong though, I seem to vaguely remember a russian site that had some pretty extensive information about the whole incident and it may have stated there was seen no reason to make what was a hiking accident top secret. I will attempt to find the site but no promises.

Ise

[bigdaddyinge]

I think it would be a good culprit, small enough and known in the area and most definitely precocious enough to approach much larger animals.

nope. wrong marten. that's an AMERICAN marten. you are thinking of a pine marten, which in any case wouldn't just eat a tongue, besides the op states that the area around the dead people wasn't disturbed by scavengers.

I can't believe someone actually has voted for werewolf/vampire.

Concerning the missing tongues - tongue is one of the first bits of corpses the wildlife usually goes for so I see no problems in explaining that.

That all said, I do agree a little with TheSearcher - USSR did have a lot of secrets and while I doubt it's anything supernatural(personal opinion based on factual evidence), the KGB and the rest of the Government facilities could have probably labeled the case confidential.

I could be wrong though, I seem to vaguely remember a russian site that had some pretty extensive information about the whole incident and it may have stated there was seen no reason to make what was a hiking accident top secret. I will attempt to find the site but no promises.

Ise

yeah, tongue is ONE of the first bits wildlife usually goes for, not the ONLY bit. just trying to show how you people are grasping to explain this occurrance.

[Mattshark]

do you mind citing your source of this information, for i've never heard of it. i HAVE heard of foxes eating the tongues of dead cattle before, along with the eyes, ears, and udders..... mmmm, where have i heard that before? oh yeah, it was my last post. this site, http://mynarskiforest.purrsia.com/ev17adit.htm, acknowledges that artic foxes actually hoard food in large caches, rather than wasting food. i've read this in other sites as well.

It is speculation based on limited information/

um... that's not a fox... it's an american marten.... not found in russia. a pine marten is, although it probably isn't the wastefull feeder you are grasping at either. here's a link for info on the pine marten...My link

try listing some sources for your guesses and maybe they'll gain credence.

No it is a stoat and it is found all across Eurasia.

No one is saying a wasteful feeder, just speculating from the little information available.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Mattshark

[Mattshark]

nope. wrong marten. that's an AMERICAN marten. you are thinking of a pine marten, which in any case wouldn't just eat a tongue, besides the op states that the area around the dead people wasn't disturbed by scavengers.

yeah, tongue is ONE of the first bits wildlife usually goes for, not the ONLY bit. just trying to show how you people are grasping to explain this occurrance.

No it isn't a marten, same family (Mustelidae) different species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoat

So please don't criticise my knowledge on these animals, I know a lot more about them than you I suspect, especially in terms of recognition.

This is an American Marten

Secondly, I am not grasping, I am merely speculating.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Mattshark

[Isensee]

yeah, tongue is ONE of the first bits wildlife usually goes for, not the ONLY bit. just trying to show how you people are grasping to explain this occurrance.

Grasping? They were there a while, these bodies so it's safe to assume the animals got to the tongue even if it wasn't the first bit they nibbled on.

[bigdaddyinge]

No it isn't a marten, same family (Mustelidae) different species.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoat

So please don't criticise my knowledge on these animals, I know a lot more about them than you I suspect, especially in terms of recognition.

This is an American Marten

Secondly, I am not grasping, I am merely speculating.

my bad, looks an awful lot like a marten... no need to get defensive about your weasel-recognizing skills, no offense intended. speculation is fine, although like i said it's not likely that a scavenger, no matter what kind, will take just a tongue and not touch anything else. that was my point.

Grasping? They were there a while, these bodies so it's safe to assume the animals got to the tongue even if it wasn't the first bit they nibbled on.

it wasn't the first bit, it was the ONLY THING MISSING. no nibble marks, bite marks, or disturbed ground around the bodies. i'm not saying that the missing tongue doesn't have a logical explanation, just that it's not likely, in my opinion, to be scavengers. personally i think either the woman bit it off somehow or that she froze with her mouth open, the tongue froze, then broke off and was lost when the body was discovered and transported off the mountain.

[TheMuumio]

So, has no one thought that maybe the person missing the tongue just accidentally bit it off? Would make sense.

[bigdaddyinge]

So, has no one thought that maybe the person missing the tongue just accidentally bit it off? Would make sense.

yeah, i think that is the likely culprit. or it froze off.

[Isensee]

it wasn't the first bit, it was the ONLY THING MISSING. no nibble marks, bite marks, or disturbed ground around the bodies. i'm not saying that the missing tongue doesn't have a logical explanation, just that it's not likely, in my opinion, to be scavengers. personally i think either the woman bit it off somehow or that she froze with her mouth open, the tongue froze, then broke off and was lost when the body was discovered and transported off the mountain.

*gasp* Blasphemous! There is nothing supernatural werewolf-ish and vampiric about this version therefore it couldn't be real! /sarcasm off

Back on the serious part, I agree it could have frozen off/be bitten off or the mixture of those two as well.

And as promised, the link(I'm -fairly- certain that was the one I read way back) to the russian source about the incident - Pereval Djatlova. It's pretty extensive to those understanding the language

Ise

[TheSearcher]

Actually, I hesitated to add this link, since they can be a tad tendencial, but for this once I'll break my own rule because at this point they got the most correct info about the case : http://www.aquiziam.com/.

On some additional pages they actually do as we do and speculate, but in the end they come up with some quite remarkable answers and expose some of the misconceptions around this case, as well as the bollox you read on some sites.

Like I said, I'm not one of their fans but in this case, hat off for the research they have done.

[bigdaddyinge]

Actually, I hesitated to add this link, since they can be a tad tendencial, but for this once I'll break my own rule because at this point they got the most correct info about the case : http://www.aquiziam.com/.

On some additional pages they actually do as we do and speculate, but in the end they come up with some quite remarkable answers and expose some of the misconceptions around this case, as well as the bollox you read on some sites.

Like I said, I'm not one of their fans but in this case, hat off for the research they have done.

good job searcher! guess the op should've used that for his reference article. now that i know that the tongue AND oral cavity were damaged, then yes i agree it could be scavengers.

[Columbo]

It was an unfortunate hiking accident which can easily be explained. They were the unfortunate victims of an avalanche and hypothermia. The reason they were partially dressed can be explained by paradoxical undressing.

The reason the bodies had a strange tint was due to the fact that they had lain dead in the sun for a number of days. The woman with the missing tongue could be attributed to scavengers, since that is one of the parts they will go for first. The three hikers with the crushed bodies and the torn tent all point to an avalanche as the cause.

Also, claims about radiation and orange spheres do not appear in the original inquest, which suggest they were add much later.

It was a sad, tragic accident, but nothing paranormal.

Your explanation makes perfect sense except that the government would not be involved in a cover up if all it was was an avalanche. Laying in the sun does not raise one's radiation level either. Do you know of any other incidents of skiers involved in an avalanche where they ended up like this?

Edited March 16, 2010 by Please-Forgive-Me

[TheSearcher]

good job searcher! guess the op should've used that for his reference article. now that i know that the tongue AND oral cavity were damaged, then yes i agree it could be scavengers.

Well a few things started bugging me, like the lack of facts and research in the articles as well as in Wiki. I should have done this right away, to be honest. Oh well everybody has a blond moment now and then.

As to the tongue, the site says that it was partly scavengers partly normal decay, considering the bodies were there for about 10 to 15 days and temperatures ranging between -10 C° and - 30 C° are not enough to totally stop decay.

[TheSearcher]

Your explanation makes perfect sense except that the government would not be involved in a cover up if all it was was an avalanche. Laying in the sun does not raise one's radiation level either. Do you know of any other incidents of skiers involved in an avalanche where they ended up like this?

Read some of the link I posted it does address the radiation issue as well.

[1963]

Actually, I hesitated to add this link, since they can be a tad tendencial, but for this once I'll break my own rule because at this point they got the most correct info about the case : http://www.aquiziam.com/.

On some additional pages they actually do as we do and speculate, but in the end they come up with some quite remarkable answers and expose some of the misconceptions around this case, as well as the bollox you read on some sites.

Like I said, I'm not one of their fans but in this case, hat off for the research they have done.

Thanks for that 'Thesearcher', this case has been bugging me for quite a while now! And with your exellent link, I will sleep better knowing a lot more facts about this case and finding that there really is only one big question to be answered! And that is what on earth possesed these nine poor unfortunate kids to panic so much as to virtually commit suicide,and rip open their tents and flee into the near arctic wilderness!!.... Having said that?..I wonder what wild and unwarrented theorys will spring up from that question..? Oh! and before you ask.. Mea culpa!! My imagination is just as wild as anyones on this forum...! 1959? Is'nt that about the time when young ones like these would be starting to experiment with L.S.D and such things that could give bad trips....

[bigdaddyinge]

Thanks for that 'Thesearcher', this case has been bugging me for quite a while now! And with your exellent link, I will sleep better knowing a lot more facts about this case and finding that there really is only one big question to be answered! And that is what on earth possesed these nine poor unfortunate kids to panic so much as to virtually commit suicide,and rip open their tents and flee into the near arctic wilderness!!.... Having said that?..I wonder what wild and unwarrented theorys will spring up from that question..? Oh! and before you ask.. Mea culpa!! My imagination is just as wild as anyones on this forum...! 1959? Is'nt that about the time when young ones like these would be starting to experiment with L.S.D and such things that could give bad trips....

maybe our government put it in their bread, the way they did in france.

[Ell]

Dyatlov Pass Incident

I have now read the wikipedia entry. I think that during the storm om the exposed mountain flank they got extremely cold in their tent. (Somewhat to the south is the Chelyabinsk region, which has the coldest temperature of Russia with a measured record temperature of -90 degrees F.) The blood vessels in their skin contracted or froze and they could not get rid any more of their internal body heat. Getting internally extremely hot, they took off their clothes and decided that they had to get out to cool down, exacerbating their freezing condition. Frozen as they were, they could not open the tent in the normal way and had to cut their way out. They managed to reach the forest to build a fire and a couple tried to return to the tent to retrieve supplies. Four others tried to reach the shelter of the ravine and may have been pelted by hail stones and been rapidly buried by an avalanche of crushing snow.

I cannot explain the missing tongue. Perhaps it froze or got stuck to freezing metal and had to be cut or ripped out.

[bigdaddyinge]

I have now read the wikipedia entry. I think that during the storm om the exposed mountain flank they got extremely cold in their tent. (Somewhat to the south is the Chelyabinsk region, which has the coldest temperature of Russia with a measured record temperature of -90 degrees F.) The blood vessels in their skin contracted or froze and they could not get rid any more of their internal body heat. Getting internally extremely hot, they took off their clothes and decided that they had to get out to cool down, exacerbating their freezing condition. Frozen as they were, they could not open the tent in the normal way and had to cut their way out. They managed to reach the forest to build a fire and a couple tried to return to the tent to retrieve supplies. Four others tried to reach the shelter of the ravine and may have been pelted by hail stones and been rapidly buried by an avalanche of crushing snow.

I cannot explain the missing tongue. Perhaps it froze or got stuck to freezing metal and had to be cut or ripped out.

interesting theory. i don't buy into just from the fact that although they were too frozen to simply unzip a tent, but weren't too frozen to walk almost naked a fairly good distance and get a fire started. the tongue, as the searcher's article addresses, was likely scavengers and decay. i think the lsd scenerio just might make sense as to why sane people would behave this way. these are my opinions.