[Merged] Dyatlov Pass incident

[1963]

Years ago I saw a slide show about climbing and mountaineering in the Soviet Union. It was quite interesting. The speaker described a system where the people had to effectively go through some steps to advance to the next level. You'd be prevented from doing certain activities without having accomplished the prerequisites. That's very different from mountaineering here today in the US or Europe. If the speaker was correct, then there might be records out there of what the participants had done before this trip. For example, the experiences many of the people might have been lots and lots of fair weather skiing, or day trips, but not long term bad weather trips such as the one they were on. Maybe they had heard avalanches during the day and were on edge going into the night. We'll never know.

Imagine you are part of this party. It's stormy. You'll been doing some mountaineering for a few years. This is your biggest trip out there. Unlike other trips the weather is bad and looks like it will be bad for a few more days. You keep hearing these weird sounds. You're fairly sure they are avalanches a ways off. There is some debate going on about where you are. You don't want to get closer to the avalanches. Then again you don't want to get lost. Some people want to go a slightly different direction. Finally you realize you are not in the spot you want to be. You set up camp still not sure of your location. Maybe there have been tantalizing glimpses of a nearby peak and some people are afraid that you are camped in an avalanche path. Some people might say the campsite is safe.

All I'm trying to do here is to paint a simple picture of a group that gets edgy because of a lack of agreement amongst its members. In the dark and cold and the storm and the arguments within the group several people panic and make a tragic decision to flee the safety of their camp.

Could we please get past this 'phantom avalanche' Stereologist ? Everytime that I read, the Q n'A session on 'aquiziam', I find it harder to believe, that anyone could still have notions that in an entire 'area devoid of avalanche history, and conditions for the causation of',.... Can still cling to the belief that this red herring was involved !! NO ONE closer to the case than 'this little band of Sherlocks' has any thoughts of avalanche's or their noises!! I concede,that you know a hell of a lot about mountaineering! and believe it or not my own imagination tells me just how panicked someone could get,if they thought that killer snow was heading towards them,... But this explanation..(on this occasion,) is a none starter!! I respect your beliefs ,.. but surely, just because you think that it is possible;; that it is the only explanation!? OPEN YOUR FIELD OF VISION for a while and you never know....?.. you might be the one to crack this chessnut!!

Edited March 26, 2010 by 1963

[stereologist]

that anyone could still have notions that in an entire 'area devoid of avalanche history, and conditions for the causation of',.... Can still cling to the belief that this red herring was involved !!

Obviously you have no idea what an avalanche is all about. In fact what you post here is a lie. The area is not where the tents are. The area is the side of the mountain. That's a tad bigger than the area where you are considering. So take the time to learn before drawing a remarkably bad conclusion. You scream "open your vision". Well, the same applies to you. Your conclusion appears to be based on the notion that the avalanche is only scary if heading directly at you and since the terrain precludes that happening then this is a non-issue. If that was the case, then I would not have brought up this issue. But I brought it up because that isn't the issue. So learn to read and drop the condescending attitude.

Here's a little hint. It isn't really possible to tell which direction an avalanche is headed when you hear it. Does that make it easier to comprehend? I hope so.

[1963]

Obviously you have no idea what an avalanche is all about. In fact what you post here is a lie. The area is not where the tents are. The area is the side of the mountain. That's a tad bigger than the area where you are considering. So take the time to learn before drawing a remarkably bad conclusion. You scream "open your vision". Well, the same applies to you. Your conclusion appears to be based on the notion that the avalanche is only scary if heading directly at you and since the terrain precludes that happening then this is a non-issue. If that was the case, then I would not have brought up this issue. But I brought it up because that isn't the issue. So learn to read and drop the condescending attitude.

Here's a little hint. It isn't really possible to tell which direction an avalanche is headed when you hear it. Does that make it easier to comprehend? I hope so.

O.K.,Stereologist!,Lets put this one to bed!..Were clearly never going to agree on this subject..Which is fine!!Everyone has to have their opinions!....The main thing here is,...that I seem to have come across to you,as condecending!!..If that is truly the case? then I offer my heart felt appologies!!!!I never meant to offend or atempt to talk down to you,or in any way upset you!!I hope that we can put this behind us, and lock horns (cordialy) in the future!

Edited March 28, 2010 by 1963

[stereologist]

Agreed 1963

One of the coolest mysteries I saw about the mountains was the disappearance of a whole plane on Nova. Seems that the plane hit a glacier, became buried, and a few years ago popped out.

Another missing plane incident is the 1948 crash of a plane on Mt Sanford

Mt Sanford plane crash

Apparently, the plane went into the glaciers and only located 10 years ago. The rumors of gold on the mountain persist to this day.

[1963]

Agreed 1963

One of the coolest mysteries I saw about the mountains was the disappearance of a whole plane on Nova. Seems that the plane hit a glacier, became buried, and a few years ago popped out.

Another missing plane incident is the 1948 crash of a plane on Mt Sanford

Mt Sanford plane crash

Apparently, the plane went into the glaciers and only located 10 years ago. The rumors of gold on the mountain persist to this day.

Yes,I seem to remember watching a documentary on T.V,about this plane lost in the mountains for decades, and had slowly worked its way down a glacier through natural processes..I found it very interesting at the time!..Im not certain that it was this one though, as I can't remember anything about the gold!..But thats just a side product of the true marvel of mother nature,and the mountain giving back what it took so many years before!!..Great bit of forensic detective work as well! Anyway,thanks for the story Stereologist,..and remember.... Be carefull when you're off treasure hunting in the mountains!!..

[JonathanVonErich]

i have a great video podcast about this case on my ipod touch....great story....i think it was a government cover-up....a testing of new weapons....

Edited April 9, 2010 by JonathanVonErich

[Fewzz]

Did they have a form of flare gun in that age?

Couldnt the orange things that were seen simply be a flare they let off before they panicked etc?

[Fernand0]

The main thing here is that if you're going to die as everyone does when their life ends, dying mysteriously is a good way to die.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I reckon they just stumbled across an old Soviet dumping site for waste (hence the radioactivity) and scavengers got at their corpses (hence the lack of tongues).

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I reckon they just stumbled across an old Soviet dumping site for waste (hence the radioactivity) and scavengers got at their corpses (hence the lack of tongues).

What about injuries?

[JonathanVonErich]

L

It was in the crypto, legends section. Already 9 pages of discussion.

link

[Big Bad Voodoo]

L

It was in the crypto, legends section. Already 9 pages of discussion.

link

Oh I see.I search forum and didnt give me any results.

EDIT: My mistake. I used search this forum instead searh forum. I apologize to all.

Edited November 25, 2010 by the L

[JonathanVonErich]

Hey don't apologise my friend, it's ok, sorry if i was a pain in the ass, i simply wanted to help you, the other thread about Dyatlov is great, have a lot of different opinions, very good thread.

In my opinion they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. I think the Government was testing new weapons and new military material, then they had no choice but eliminate the hikers. Only my opinion.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Hey don't apologise my friend, it's ok, sorry if i was a pain in the ass, i simply wanted to help you, the other thread about Dyatlov is great, have a lot of different opinions, very good thread.

In my opinion they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. I think the Government was testing new weapons and new military material, then they had no choice but eliminate the hikers. Only my opinion.

No it is okay. I bring old news. Why new thread since we have five Dyatlov pass threads?! It is not that I have my/new theory.

Well I think that I search at the wrong place at wrong time. Ofcourse I will read those others Dyatlov threads.

Edited November 25, 2010 by the L

[SolarPlexus]

Is it true that one of them (Yuri Yudin) survived??

[JonathanVonErich]

Is it true that one of them (Yuri Yudin) survived??

Yes, Yury Yudin survived. Yudin fell ill near Vizhai, the last settlement before the mountain, and was left behind.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

What about injuries?

How old are the injuries? They could be pre-existing or resulting from a horror days climbing.

[SolarPlexus]

The missing tongue could have been eaten by animals.... its soft tissue and thats what they look for. Also soft tissue decomposes first...

The radiation levels are not big AFAIK could be background fallout

The thing that interests me the most.... is why slash open the tent from inside with a knife, and go naked on -18

Why not open the tent regular way? they were in a hurry. What was chasing them?

EDIT: they also regroup later and exchange clothes

Edited November 25, 2010 by SolarPlexus

[Saru]

Thread merged with the existing one

[Waymarker]

I tend to go with the avalanche scenario, but only if they pitched their tents on a fairly steep slope. As yet i haven't come across enough photos of the area to get a good idea of the gradients and contours around the campsite.

[~TheBigK~]

I'm sure every aspect of this case has already been discussed but I'm too lazy to read all 10 pages, so apologies if I repeat something that's already been said.

Anyway, I think most of this is pretty explainable as many of you have already mentioned. Their lack of clothing and odd behavior could be due to hypothermia, the missing tongue due to animals, etc. In my opinion the government probably was involved and there could have been some kind of weapon being tested. The thing that I found most intriguing though, was their other injuries. From Wikipedia:

"the body of Thibeaux-Brignolle had major skull damage, and both Dubunina and Zolotarev had major chest fractures. The force required to cause such damage would have been extremely high, with one expert comparing it to the force of a car crash. Notably, the bodies had no external wounds, as if they were crippled by a high level of pressure."

This could be due to some sort of weapon (if there was one) but it's still pretty mysterious.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

This could be due to some sort of weapon (if there was one) but it's still pretty mysterious.

Alien sort of weapon.

[JonathanVonErich]

Here are the Unanswered Questions of this fascinating case:

- Was Dubinina’s tongue ripped out before or after she died? Forensic science was still quite primitive in 1959 but the amount of bleeding she experienced can easily answer this question. This is a truly important. If it was ripped out before she died then she was likely the conscious victim of a vicious attack by a person or persons unknown. If it was after she died then scavenger predation is more likely.

- How deep was the ravine in which the final four victims were found? Could a natural fall account for their injuries?

- Did aircraft (secret or otherwise) with jet engines undertake flights in this region on the date that the “Dyatlov Pass Accident” occurred?

- Why did the Soviet Authorities deem this event important enough to classify this subject for 30 years?

- Where is the missing envelope that is supposedly identified in the declassified papers? What is in it?

- In the 50’s people were far more obsessed with accurate paperwork than they are today. To seal off a region would have required many and various authorisations and permit ions. Where are these records? What reasons do they give for the requested actions that were apparently approved?

- What are the details of the skull injury experienced by Nicolas Thibeaux-Brignollel? This information alone could go a very long way to solving the mystery. For example, is it an impact injury or a comprehensive pressure injury? Was there retinal detachment? Was he alive or dead when it happened?

- The “snowfall anomaly” refers to the fact that some of the bodies found – those returning to the camp – were buried under snow. How is it that enough snow fell to burry these bodies but tracks that were found higher up the hill were preserved in such a good condition that investigators could (allegedly) tell that at least one person had been barefoot?

- One member of the team - Alexander Zolotarev – was significantly older than the others and at 37 almost twice the age of the youngest. What was his profession and what was his connection to the team?

I don't think we will ever get the answers to these questions. Something disastrous clearly happened on 2 February 1959 but hard facts are scarce and the real sources of this mystery are very few when traced back to their actual origin. I still think they were at the wrong place at the wrong time, That certain military tests were conducted very close to the where the ski-team had camped. The authorities conducting the tests were probably unaware that the ski-team was even in the vicinity. The weapon, if it exists at all, was probably an air burst concussion device with a possibly chemical warfare component.

[JonathanVonErich]

Hey L what do you think of the video i posted yesterday ?? Very good stuff in my opinion...

[~TheBigK~]

- Was Dubinina’s tongue ripped out before or after she died? Forensic science was still quite primitive in 1959 but the amount of bleeding she experienced can easily answer this question. This is a truly important. If it was ripped out before she died then she was likely the conscious victim of a vicious attack by a person or persons unknown. If it was after she died then scavenger predation is more likely.

It's a shame so many cases like this could have been solved or at least partially explained had forensic science been more prevalent in those times. I was just wondering about something though. If her tongue had been ripped out by an animal, wouldn't there have been other scratch and/or teeth marks elsewhere on her body? I don't know what parts scavengers generally go for, but it seems like there would have at least been other indications. Was there any evidence of nearby animals at the camp?

Sweet video you posted by the way.