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Evo

Scientific Possabilities for PsychicPhenomina

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Evo

This thread is to give out any scientific possobilities for psychic abilities and possibly the paranormal. It is not a thread to give scientific reasons as to why psychic abilities are not at all possible, but you can try to disprove ideas that are put up. The main goal is to try to find scientific ways that these things can exsist. Just as Newton observed physics and it effects and later found evidence to prove the unseen forces and/or explain how they work, your going to have to use your mind to see possible explinations and proof. Also, feel free to post what other people have thought of as an explination to psychic activity or paranormal activity related to the psychic. I know Mattshark has previously posted an article about the possibility of a connection EM waves and ghosts (btw,Matt,I'm hoping I'll hear some good possible explinations from you instead of being confined to what has already been established. I know your a smart guy, so It'll be great to hear from you).

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aquatus1

I can't think of any manner in which the human body would be capable of having, as a built-in ability, psychic powers, however I think it may be possible that perhaps psychic powers are some sort of environmental power, and all the brain is doing is somehow tapping in to that environmental force.

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Agent. Mulder

This thread is to give out any scientific possobilities for psychic abilities and possibly the paranormal. It is not a thread to give scientific reasons as to why psychic abilities are not at all possible, but you can try to disprove ideas that are put up. The main goal is to try to find scientific ways that these things can exsist. Just as Newton observed physics and it effects and later found evidence to prove the unseen forces and/or explain how they work, your going to have to use your mind to see possible explinations and proof. Also, feel free to post what other people have thought of as an explination to psychic activity or paranormal activity related to the psychic. I know Mattshark has previously posted an article about the possibility of a connection EM waves and ghosts (btw,Matt,I'm hoping I'll hear some good possible explinations from you instead of being confined to what has already been established. I know your a smart guy, so It'll be great to hear from you).

well, comparing 'unseen' forces like gravity, to lend credence to psychic powers doesnt quite work for an analogy. but, i am curious to see what people bring to the table here, in terms of ideas.

i see its your 4th post? so welcome to UM.

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Evo

well, comparing 'unseen' forces like gravity, to lend credence to psychic powers doesnt quite work for an analogy. but, i am curious to see what people bring to the table here, in terms of ideas.

i see its your 4th post? so welcome to UM.

Thanks. And I'm pretty curious too.

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Evo

I can't think of any manner in which the human body would be capable of having, as a built-in ability, psychic powers, however I think it may be possible that perhaps psychic powers are some sort of environmental power, and all the brain is doing is somehow tapping in to that environmental force.

That is in interesting idea. Do you think you can explain to me how that my work?

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Evo

Also, to any guests who read this thread, hope you join UM and help contribute to the discussion :)

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Mattshark

I can't think of any manner in which the human body would be capable of having, as a built-in ability, psychic powers, however I think it may be possible that perhaps psychic powers are some sort of environmental power, and all the brain is doing is somehow tapping in to that environmental force.

Could that not then simply be attributed to normal senses?

I find a lot of what is described as psychic powers can be ascribed to eyesight and smell and importantly, knowing some and being able to predict their response.

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Emma_Acid

The problem here is, its a question that doesn't need answering. There has never been any example of proven psychic powers. Mentalists like Derren Brown seem to exhibit them, but always use a non-supernatural technique (cold reading etc).

Likewise, there has never been a single example of any psychic powers being shown in controlled conditions.

So, as I say, there is no question to answer. Not only is there no biological way for these things to work, but there is no evolutionary reason to have them either, nor any evidence that anyone actually has them (and no, a youtube video is not evidence).

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Phenomenon

The problem here is, its a question that doesn't need answering. There has never been any example of proven psychic powers. Mentalists like Derren Brown seem to exhibit them, but always use a non-supernatural technique (cold reading etc).

Likewise, there has never been a single example of any psychic powers being shown in controlled conditions.

So, as I say, there is no question to answer. Not only is there no biological way for these things to work, but there is no evolutionary reason to have them either, nor any evidence that anyone actually has them (and no, a youtube video is not evidence).

I agree in part with your comments, however, it's important to mention that whilst Derren Brown may well replicate demonstrations that at first glance appear supernatural only for them to be perfectly natural, this does not mean this is the be all and end all. Merely replicating a scenario does not necessarily explain every possible account.

As for no possible biological way for these things to happen, I beg to differ in as much as there is as yet no biological evidence, that's not to say there never will be. You must keep an open mind on these matters, a current lack of evidence means just that, that's not to say there never will. I guess as a skeptic I like to remain open and write nothing off as impossible, merely improbable. ;)

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Mattshark

I agree in part with your comments, however, it's important to mention that whilst Derren Brown may well replicate demonstrations that at first glance appear supernatural only for them to be perfectly natural, this does not mean this is the be all and end all. Merely replicating a scenario does not necessarily explain every possible account.

As for no possible biological way for these things to happen, I beg to differ in as much as there is as yet no biological evidence, that's not to say there never will be. You must keep an open mind on these matters, a current lack of evidence means just that, that's not to say there never will. I guess as a skeptic I like to remain open and write nothing off as impossible, merely improbable. ;)

The problem is though, there is no real evidence of these abilities even existing.

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SlimJim22

That is in interesting idea. Do you think you can explain to me how that my work?

I don't have a lot of time sorry but I really like this idea. The earth is comprised of various fields of energy such EM and they form an earth grid and this is likely what ley lines and dragon lines are all about. I'm not sure but i think this could linked to a collective uncosncious, spacetime or 4D space.It is also true that human beings have an EM field, atmosphere or aura of their own. Some researches even believe that this is where consciousness is found rather than in the bilogical brain function. Interesting idea and I suppose OBEs do support this theory.

If humans can activate the indivudals superconscious i.e. the part connected to the whole then I believe a great many things may be possible. I've never experienced anything myself except for intuition and a sole psi ball but I will keep trying.

I'm trying to research nano particles and have come across the perception that they could hold a key to transforming dna patterns. If this could be done through intentional acts then maybe anything is possible.

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Mattshark

I don't have a lot of time sorry but I really like this idea. The earth is comprised of various fields of energy such EM and they form an earth grid and this is likely what ley lines and dragon lines are all about. I'm not sure but i think this could linked to a collective uncosncious, spacetime or 4D space.It is also true that human beings have an EM field, atmosphere or aura of their own. Some researches even believe that this is where consciousness is found rather than in the bilogical brain function. Interesting idea and I suppose OBEs do support this theory.

If humans can activate the indivudals superconscious i.e. the part connected to the whole then I believe a great many things may be possible. I've never experienced anything myself except for intuition and a sole psi ball but I will keep trying.

I'm trying to research nano particles and have come across the perception that they could hold a key to transforming dna patterns. If this could be done through intentional acts then maybe anything is possible.

I would say that is unlikely, DNA gets mixed around by breeding, that is why we have meiosis for the formation of sex cells and process such as genetic drift.

Evolution 101

OBES however are better explained by a neurological response and can be simulated by triggering the right angular gyrus of the brain.

http://www.soultravel.se/RV/0Blankenature2002.pdf

Sorry mate, but no serious researchers believe our conscious is in the weak EM field we create.

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Phenomenon

The problem is though, there is no real evidence of these abilities even existing.

I totally agree, however, one must keep an open mind and never write something off simply because there is nothing to sustain it. :tu:

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Mattshark

I totally agree, however, one must keep an open mind and never write something off simply because there is nothing to sustain it. :tu:

Usually I wouldn't, but they had over 30 years of study and still couldn't produce any evidence.

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Phenomenon

Usually I wouldn't, but they had over 30 years of study and still couldn't produce any evidence.

And we've had a lifetime of no evidence but when does one close their mind?

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Mattshark

And we've had a lifetime of no evidence but when does one close their mind?

I will gladly open it if there is ever evidence, but until then I feel it is right considered a pseudoscience.

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Phenomenon

I will gladly open it if there is ever evidence, but until then I feel it is right considered a pseudoscience.

I totally agree at this point. I still feel an open mind is likely to be more willing to accept something as apposed to one which is not.

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SlimJim22

I totally agree at this point. I still feel an open mind is likely to be more willing to accept something as apposed to one which is not.

You are right. The laws of Thelema, which could go back a long, long way expresses the need to know with conviction that intention plus energy can actually bring about matter. There is a funny story about Jack Parsons and how he created an elemnetal and then she ran off with his best mate.

Anyway, scienec has measured elements of the internal energy created by the human body/mind. Have you ever wondered how kung fu experts can do all those crazy moves or how some little dude can break boards with his head? Me too! Here is a link which pretty well covers what I view as being possible as far as psi pheneomena goes at this time.

http://www.meaningoflife.i12.com/psi.htm

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Mattshark

You are right. The laws of Thelema, which could go back a long, long way expresses the need to know with conviction that intention plus energy can actually bring about matter. There is a funny story about Jack Parsons and how he created an elemnetal and then she ran off with his best mate.

Anyway, scienec has measured elements of the internal energy created by the human body/mind. Have you ever wondered how kung fu experts can do all those crazy moves or how some little dude can break boards with his head? Me too! Here is a link which pretty well covers what I view as being possible as far as psi pheneomena goes at this time.

http://www.meaningoflife.i12.com/psi.htm

Well breaking things is just a matter of technique. It is physics and strength, not psychic power or some other unevidenced force.

Energy can not be created or destroyed, Laws of Thermodynamics. Don't mix religion with science, it instantly stops there being any science.

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SlimJim22

Well breaking things is just a matter of technique. It is physics and strength, not psychic power or some other unevidenced force.

Energy can not be created or destroyed, Laws of Thermodynamics. Don't mix religion with science, it instantly stops there being any science.

You do any martial arts Matt? You know Dimak is it? I thought the point of that was about the mind overiding the physical impossibility. Of course technique is a big part of it but not all me thinks. I wonder what Bruce Lee would say about it.

Energy is never destroyed but I'm sure it can be recycled if it is chi. My point is that I think psi abilities will be linked with eastern wisdom and shamnism. I shall leave it there cos I don't wanna get on your nerves.

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Mattshark

You do any martial arts Matt? You know Dimak is it? I thought the point of that was about the mind overiding the physical impossibility. Of course technique is a big part of it but not all me thinks. I wonder what Bruce Lee would say about it.

Energy is never destroyed but I'm sure it can be recycled if it is chi. My point is that I think psi abilities will be linked with eastern wisdom and shamnism. I shall leave it there cos I don't wanna get on your nerves.

The mind is physical and limited to the physically possible itself. It is the reason why wishing for something won't make it happen.

I know what Dim mak is, but I would say that Cerebal Edema was far more to do with Lee's death than any touch of death.

Yes, it is need to power your heart, muscles, and other systems in your body and it is brought in through food, there is no other known way of bringing in energy to the body and your body does store it, as fat reserves.

http://physics.syr.edu/courses/PHY101.02Fall/lectures/Lecture19.pdf

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aquatus1

Mattshark, you have more than made clear your stance on the topic. However, the question here is not whether psychic powers exist or not. The question is how, assuming they did exist, might they work. In other words, it is a harmless brain exercise, and this being the Psychic abilities forum, posters are fully justified is asking for a suspension of disbelief.

Now, in regards to my former thoughts, I would say that we are currently reaching our limit of knowledge in the natural world as it pertains to our planet. Now, I am not referring to new animals or new habitats, or new ways of doing the same thing that any other animal does; it is more than likely that we will continue to discover new species with new ways of feeding, reproducing, and communicating, however in terms of discovering new, never before encountered natural abilities, I do not believe we are going to be doing that, not on this planet anyway. I think that our knowledge of evolution has taken us close to the finish line of understanding the major rules of the biological world.

This does not mean that there is not the possibility that the biological is not affected by other fields. I do think it is possible, albeit unlikely, that there is a manner of tapping into environments that are so foreign to ourselves, to our understanding of reality, that they may well, for all intents and purposes, be considered separate realities themselves. If there is any truth to the field of psychic powers, I believe that it is this possible link that may well be the culprit.

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Mattshark

Mattshark, you have more than made clear your stance on the topic. However, the question here is not whether psychic powers exist or not. The question is how, assuming they did exist, might they work. In other words, it is a harmless brain exercise, and this being the Psychic abilities forum, posters are fully justified is asking for a suspension of disbelief.

The op also says

but you can try to disprove ideas that are put up.

Which is what I feel I have done.

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aquatus1

The op also says

Which is what I feel I have done.

I would disagree. For the most part, all you have really done is counter one opinion with your own opinion. Now, there is certainly more evidence available to support your opinion, however, being that you did not present it and show how it countered what was said, it would not be referred to as "disproving".

Even the times that you offered links here, all you where really doing was showing alternate methods that achieved the same result. This is not the same as showing that the other method would not work to achieve that result either.

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SlimJim22

One of the reasons I love this site is because the debate creates a kind of synergy that can cause one or more to do further research in an area they have not fuully regarded before. I've known of Qi gong for a while but have not read up too much. Hence I was mighty pleased with Matt when I attempted to support my view with a link. Having now read most of it, I'd to post a quote that I think the OP may enjoy as I certainly had not come across it, I wonder if many here have.

Anyway here it is,

Qigong can exert a tremendous influence over the muscular motion system. Practicing internal qigong is better than practicing martial arts since qigong can produce, in the brain and intestinal walls, large amounts of enkephalin, and excite the body s morphine receptors to accept the enkephalin easily. Enkephalin is a naturally occurring substance of the endorphin family in the human body. Everyone has this substance, but ordinarily don t produce large amounts of enkephlin. Its analgesic or pain relieving effect is many times more effective than that of morphine. A good qigong practitioner is not afraid of being hit or beaten, because under the influence of enkephalin, muscle reflex is decreased. Furthermore, through qigong, one can produce strong magnetic signals which have anesthetic and analgesic effects. This might explain certain qigong abilities such as Golden Bell Shield and Iron Cotton Clothes that protect one from being hurt during car accidents or physical confrontations. There is a saying by some ancient masters: "To learn martial arts without internal qigong, one will regret this for life. To learn internal qigong without martial arts, one will enjoy countless wonders." from "Secrets and Benefits of Internal Qigong Cultivation", p.85

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