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trancelikestate

why disapprove of a us health care system

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trancelikestate

So I heard in the news that obamas plan to reform the american health care system has been past. I've also heard many people in the states are angry about this. As a canadian citizen, I'm used to everyone getting free health care, and to me helping the sick really doesn't seem like that big of a deal.In fact it just seems outright obscure that anyone would not be on board. That said I would like to hear from those that disapprove to understand why they think giving health care to the poor is a bad thing. - personally believe its just a matter of left wing right wing politics myself.

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Pseudo Intellectual

Facts and reality be damned, as long as you feel good about yourself. That's the mentality of those who support this.

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danielost

So I heard in the news that obamas plan to reform the american health care system has been past. I've also heard many people in the states are angry about this. As a canadian citizen, I'm used to everyone getting free health care, and to me helping the sick really doesn't seem like that big of a deal.In fact it just seems outright obscure that anyone would not be on board. That said I would like to hear from those that disapprove to understand why they think giving health care to the poor is a bad thing. - personally believe its just a matter of left wing right wing politics myself.

as soon as they limit the profit on meds. get ready for your meds. bills to go up.

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AROCES

When you make millions of the population dependent on the governement, it is never a good idea and is not what made America the nation it is.

Cost is the problem, having somebody else pay for it does not bring down cost but merely transfering the problem to someone else.

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trancelikestate

Facts and reality be damned, as long as you feel good about yourself. That's the mentality of those who support this.

And which facts might those be? There are a few countries, like mine, who have a good working social health care system.

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acidhead

And which facts might those be? There are a few countries, like mine, who have a good working social health care system.

Canada's healthcare is sub-divided into Provinces.... not as a whole nation...... Look at your carecard.

Our healthcare is taking a pounding..... where the hell are you? My wife is a nurse in Victoria, BC..... Cut-backs has become the new C-word around here.

Need that job-saving knee surgery?... take a number and don't call us - we'll call you.

Looking for that raise?.... sorry were gov't privatizing that area... your wage is being cut... but heres the good part.... youve still got a job and were not going anywhere.

One more thing.... were waiting to see what happens in the american economy..... thats right.... were waiting....... because our economic life-line depends heavily upon what happens in the land of the free-loaders and the home of the back-bone-less.

Edited by acidhead

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Corp

And which facts might those be? There are a few countries, like mine, who have a good working social health care system.

Along with every other developed country in the Western World.

That being said there are legitamate problems with this bill, along with any time of legistlation. However those have been drowned out but the crazy claims of how the US is going to be a communist state, how millions will die, how there must now be a massive civil war in order to "save" the country. Makes you shake your head. Don't know if it's the economy or Obama himself but American politics has gotten really nasty of late. Don't recall there being this deep of a divide when Bush was running around.

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AROCES

And which facts might those be? There are a few countries, like mine, who have a good working social health care system.

Takes time when Canadians generally start wanting more from the govt for they get used to it.

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acidhead

The young in Canada 'believe' our healthcare is great. This is because they are young. Our healthcare is in a nose-dive compared to years ago.

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Neognosis
Don't recall there being this deep of a divide when Bush was running around.

It was definitely divided, but not as nasty. I don't think liberals accept as much dishonesty in their political slandering, and generally are less vicious.

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Admiral Danger

if they make it anything like the health care system in britain, then theres no problems.

they dont decide how much they charge, they make no profits. the only problem with the NHS now days is that most doctors are bloody useless. if the doctors over in the US are any good, then dont expect them to become crap at their job because they're supposed to be motivated by helping people, not money.

i've heard alot of things about american hospitals through the cartoons and tv shows and i've heard that the bills are really expensive. so take it from someone who lives in a country of free health care. all the US citizens need this more than some people think.

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acidhead

if they make it anything like the health care system in britain, then theres no problems.

they dont decide how much they charge, they make no profits. the only problem with the NHS now days is that most doctors are bloody useless. if the doctors over in the US are any good, then dont expect them to become crap at their job because they're supposed to be motivated by helping people, not money.

i've heard alot of things about american hospitals through the cartoons and tv shows and i've heard that the bills are really expensive. so take it from someone who lives in a country of free health care. all the US citizens need this more than some people think.

Nothing is for free in a universal government system.

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Alien Being

So I heard in the news that obamas plan to reform the american health care system has been past. I've also heard many people in the states are angry about this. As a canadian citizen, I'm used to everyone getting free health care, and to me helping the sick really doesn't seem like that big of a deal.In fact it just seems outright obscure that anyone would not be on board. That said I would like to hear from those that disapprove to understand why they think giving health care to the poor is a bad thing. - personally believe its just a matter of left wing right wing politics myself.

Capitalist states succeed economically by being efficent and having low taxes so that they can out compete the competition. When you start having minimum wages, huge investment in education, a state health service as well as others they drive the taxes up making it more difficult for your companies to compete abroad with others when it comes to the cheapest prices.

This is what made America so rich in the past and why Margerat Thatcher adopted the US enterprise system for Britain. Look at the EU thats a socialists dream and it doesnt work. Before the economic crises they had high unemployment etc, etc. In fact Britain exploited the EU to work its way up the richest nations rank.

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Admiral Danger

Nothing is for free in a universal government system.

but it wouldnt cost that much per person overall.

would you rather pay thousands of dollars for having a broken arm, or would you rather have everyone pay a few dollars extra a week in taxes instead?

Edited by Dr Alien

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DieChecker

I think the main issue is that 75%+ of the American people already have healthcare insurance and liked it. The Healthcare Bill pushed by Obama and the Democrats is made to help out that other 25% and to try to (Unsuccessfully in my opinion) bring down costs. So, the 75% are conserned at who is going to be paying for those other 25%. It is a common belief that Joe Average is going to have to pay more for his existing insurance, or will have what his insurance covers cut back for the same price.

It is not even an If, it is a When. The Democrats have admited as much. The Bill is supposed to control the rising cost of healthcare so it is only terrible and not monsterous. But, like I said, I don't think it will work. I think the insurance companies will do whatever they like.

Plus a lot of people don't like it because of the way it was Bullied though the Congress and how smug and arrogant the principals involved are.

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Alien Being

but doesnt cost that much per person.

would you rather pay thousands of dollars for having a broken arm, or would you rather have everyone pay a few dollars extra a week in taxes instead?

Do you think its right that you should pay your share of a $50,000 fee to give a couch potatoe a heart bypass operation who has never worked a day in his life?

Socialism is very bad and you should take that from an Englishman living in the socialist hell hole called modern day Britain. Once you start down the road of socialism people start taking advantage. Not only that your nations economy shrinks as higher taxes mean lower exports.

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Neognosis
Capitalist states succeed economically by being efficent and having low taxes so that they can out compete the competition. When you start having minimum wages, huge investment in education, a state health service as well as others they drive the taxes up making it more difficult for your companies to compete abroad with others when it comes to the cheapest prices.

Actually, the US is/was so rich because we have abundant natural resources.

Low taxes are not going to help us outcompete third world labor, especially when americans insist on buying disposable, cheap crap made overseas rather than quality american made goods that are more expensive, but will likely outlast the cheap foreign garbage. But americans like to buy and buy.. we don't want to pay 100 dollars for a widget that will last 10 years when we think we are saving money by buying a cheap foreign widget that costs 25 dollars buty only lasts 2 years.

I also don't think 75% of americans are satisfied with our health care. Most eveyrone I know complains constantly about risign rates and rising copays, and an increasinly shorter list of things that are covered. Most everyone I know feels like they are not getting their money's worth.

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Belial

I pay tax on my wages, i also pay into a system of health care (national insurance) it is taken from my wage before it even goes into the bank. I have no problem with this as long as no 'freeloading' scum take advantage (which they are now). I feel this is the issue most americans have, could be wrong but i bet i ain't...

Recently i required surgery (minor) only waited three weeks and i had it done, plus drugs to go with the aftercare (we pay a prescription charge for drugs) here, again no real issues with that either, overall i am happy with the NHS system, just some of the hospitals are slowly becoming over loaded with red tape and paperwork, i know this as my wife works as a nurse in the NHS. Also - if i wanted to go private and not wait for the date given i have that choice to, so if i had private health care i could go down that route, so whats the problem with the US ;)

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Neognosis
Do you think its right that you should pay your share of a $50,000 fee to give a couch potatoe a heart bypass operation who has never worked a day in his life?

Yes.

Socialism is very bad and you should take that from an Englishman living in the socialist hell hole called modern day Britain. Once you start down the road of socialism people start taking advantage. Not only that your nations economy shrinks as higher taxes mean lower exports.

We already don't export that much, we import far, far more than we export. And this is due to nothing but american greed on its own.

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Leonardo

The young in Canada 'believe' our healthcare is great. This is because they are young. Our healthcare is in a nose-dive compared to years ago.

As is ours. However, that is not an issue with having a state/government healthcare plan, per se, but an issue with overpopulation, an ever-aging population and the increasing divide between the 'haves' and the 'have-nots'. Only during the Victorian Era, perhaps, in modern recorded history has the greater wealth of most nations been concentrated in so few hands.

Edited by Leonardo

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rashore

I'm probably gonna get slammed for this...

I'm in the US. I think that a lot of people think the notion of being taken care of healthcare wise is right and fine, yay everyone healthy. But there is a lot of disagreement about how the government is going about it. It's a system that needs reform and restructuring, in providers, suppliers, insurance, and legally. It really depends on which camp you talk to why they disagree with the bill. And when it gets right down to it, a lot of folk don't like the government poking too deeply into what is often considered private affairs, and using their public monies to do it.

My take on what a government should do if they want a direct hand in public healthcare is clinics. If they want everyone to have the same basic chance at healthy, have clinics that give general checkups and shots that are pretty much covered by insurances as a granted currently. Providers and insurance feels a lightening of the load for more intense stuff.

I have no clue how this would work, but it is a nice fantasy. Of course, some folk wouldn't like that the government has full records on our basic medical information. Or the swings in monies that would happen. Or the services offered, or the locations of clinics. Or a hundred other things..

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DieChecker

These links are from last summer, but they paint the picture I am suggesting.

He cited a Washington Post-ABC News poll of 1,001 adults in June that found that 83 percent were either "somewhat" or "very" satisfied with the care they receive and 81 percent felt the same way about their insurance. "These people have something to lose. If they think reform is going to actually make it worse for them, they get really scared."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/27/AR2009072701372.html

Those with recent serious health problems, possibly the people with the best knowledge of how health care is working, were generally the most satisfied. Ninety-three percent of insured Americans who had recently suffered a serious illness were satisfied with their health care. So were 95 percent of those who suffered from chronic illness.
Uninsured Americans, not surprisingly, are not as satisfied as people who have insurance. Nonetheless, 70 percent of the uninsured who indicated their level of satisfaction said they were either "satisfied" or "very satisfied" with their health care, and only 17.5 percent said they were "very dissatisfied."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/24/obama-pushes-national-health-care-americans-happy-coverage/

People were generally satisfide with what they had. It is only the arrogant liberal left that keeps saying people don't know what they want and that they will appreciate the new system latter. Because we are all so stupid.

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Neognosis

Well, we have health care through a very large american company. And it sucks and gets more expensive and less covering every year. We are not happy.

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Admiral Danger

We already don't export that much, we import far, far more than we export. And this is due to nothing but american greed on its own.

americans own most of the british companies now days and one of the reasons why there was such a big fuss about cadbury is not just because it was one of the greatest companies to be owned by some who is british, but its also because the products are made in britain. vast majority of stuff come from foreign countries, even the products that say 'made in britain' and its those reasons why britain is in such a hell hole. if most things that we buy in britain came from britain, then there would be alot more jobs going around, and if there was a decent prime minister in power to do something about all the problems the country has then it wouldnt be so bad. i would love to have obama to be in charge of britain. :hmm:

Do you think its right that you should pay your share of a $50,000 fee to give a couch potatoe a heart bypass operation who has never worked a day in his life?

if i had a $50,000 dollar fine, i would have to work for the rest of my life to pay it off in this country.

Edited by Dr Alien

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AROCES

Well, we have health care through a very large american company. And it sucks and gets more expensive and less covering every year. We are not happy.

So you have somebody else pay for it who cant afford it either, right?

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