why disapprove of a us health care system

[WoIverine]

We give the federal government more control, where does it end?

[zenfahr]

Why disapprove of a us health care system? Simple, why give more power to the entity that demands an exorbitant portion of our incomes every couple of weeks? An entity drowning in corruption, they rob us, invalidate our hard work, so we reward them? We give them any and all opportunities to run our lives, while we buy into their lies saying that we are mentally incapable of making our own informed decisions?

Be sheeple if you want, I tend to think we're all better than that!

Spider, if only I was a Doctor. Hell when I go to one I am taking Their word for what I have. If I could I would avoid the healthcare system all together. Just as I would walk everywhere to avoid having to pay taxes, and insurance on a car.... but i need both.

And the whole income tax is not corrupt it is illegal.... its unfortunate that many people here know that for a fact, yet no one will stand up to OUR government. WT*!!!

[Poopie]

The wars bled us dry and crippled our economy. In order to keep it from crippling even more, we had to spend even more money.

I would assume that you didn't really pay attention in history class. Let us not forget things like the Post WW2 GI BILL... To those that are unaware there is a very similar Post 9/11 Bill out now...

Your statement of "we had to" shows that you chew on whatever you're told. I'd rather see a few banks fail, instead of my country...

Wars stimulates economies. This is proven throughout history...

[zenfahr]

We give the federal government more control, where does it end?

This is why the world needs more MAD scientists!!! Or maybe just one Evil Villan!!!

[Poopie]

Why disapprove of a us health care system? Simple, why give more power to the entity that demands an exorbitant portion of our incomes every couple of weeks? An entity drowning in corruption, they rob us, invalidate our hard work, so we reward them? We give them any and all opportunities to run our lives, while we buy into their lies saying that we are mentally incapable of making our own informed decisions?

Be sheeple if you want, I tend to think we're all better than that!

Wisdom.

[theGhost_and_theDarkness]

We give the federal government more control, where does it end?

Where does it end? Seriously?

So, you believe that, because of this health care thing, that we are all going to suddenly roll over on our backs and start chanting "Heil, Obama!" And that he will take over everything and we will submit to our new leader and give up everything that we are as Americans? I doubt it.

Somehow I think certain people just have a very narrow viewpoint of what it is to be an American. Freedom is a great thing. . .but as much as people are claiming this bill is limiting our freedom, why don't you try to see how its freeing them? No more shackles and chains to insurance companies, no more losing your home because of medical bills, no more choosing between whether or not to eat or go to the doctor, no more having someone tell you you aren't good enough to be covered by their company. I think it opens many more doors than it closes.

Edited March 22, 2010 by theGhost_and_theDarkness

[zenfahr]

I would assume that you didn't really pay attention in history class. Let us not forget things like the Post WW2 GI BILL... To those that are unaware there is a very similar Post 9/11 Bill out now...

Your statement of "we had to" shows that you chew on whatever you're told. I'd rather see a few banks fail, instead of my country...

Wars stimulates economies. This is proven throughout history...

not really. Has not worked for some time now. just look around. Paying for someone to go to college is not stimulating the economy, if they cannot find work after the fact. Perhaps a war that is backed up by the majority would help, but life is not as black and white as it used to be.

Edited March 22, 2010 by zenfahr

[Poopie]

I'd enjoy a revolution. Get rid of all the (INSERT JESSE VENTURA QUOTE)

I don't think Obama's the anti-christ.... I just think he's a socialist with nothing stopping him from bankrupting this country...

Edited March 22, 2010 by Poopie

[theGhost_and_theDarkness]

I would assume that you didn't really pay attention in history class. Let us not forget things like the Post WW2 GI BILL... To those that are unaware there is a very similar Post 9/11 Bill out now...

Your statement of "we had to" shows that you chew on whatever you're told. I'd rather see a few banks fail, instead of my country...

Wars stimulates economies. This is proven throughout history...

My uncle was a historian, I was forced into extra history classes, thank you very much. You saying you would rather see a few banks fails shows you know absolutely nothing about American financial institutions or the economy. If our financial institutions would have collapsed, the dollar would have went along with it. The dollar isn't much now, but its much more than nothing. See how much those financial institutions mean to you when you're paying $100 for a loaf of stale bread and even more people have lost their jobs than they already have. It would have sent us into a major depression, so I'm sure the country would be doing much more failing right now if it wouldn't have happened.

And no, I don't chew on whatever I'm told. I do something called "paying attention". How many of these bills that you oppose have you actually read? I've read ALL of them. I never support or oppose something because some fanatical nut is screaming about it. I take the time to read the bills and learn about every facet within them. Something which I highly doubt you do. Hell, half the senators and congressmen don't even do that.

[theGhost_and_theDarkness]

And, as for wars stimulating the economy. . .

You can not compare WWII with the Iraq war. They are two completely different entities.

With WWII there was a need for immediate and massive amounts of supplies. Factories being converted and new ones being built for army supplies. Prior to the war, the country was in a depression. The new needs created a job boom, not to mention all the people that served in the military. The standard of living was still very low as things were still being rationed, yet more jobs were available. However, war time employments aren't generally sustainable long term.

With Iraq, there are some differences. Companies are already in existence that produce army supplies, there's no need to build them. It is also worthy to note that they work for profit, and made a killing during the Iraq war. Our military already had good numbers, no need to draft anyone. There goes the jobs that came with WWII, which was a major part of the stimulating affect it had.

Using WWII as an example of stimulating economies is ironical, IMO, as it did the exact opposite to most other countries involved. The US was the only one that had any positive affect at all. That's one of the reasons things got better after the war. The US was one of the only countries left in anything other than chaos. Exports went up, and voila! More jobs and what not. But, trying to obtain the same results again seem to be striving for the impossible. There were a lot of factors involved during that time period that I do not believe can be recreated now.

You want to look into war and history, look at all the empires that collapsed because of war and stretching their resources too far. You want to get into a history debate with me, bring it on, but not on this thread. I try not to derail.

Edited March 22, 2010 by theGhost_and_theDarkness

[Neognosis]

None of the examples you gave negatively affected the rest of the population (financially anyway). (They did affect the population socially)

When did life, liberty, happyness, self determination, voting and privacy toss a barrel load of financial strain on the Many to provide for the Few?

Freeing the slaves had quite a negative impact for most free people. Financially.

The end of serfdom 200 years ago had quite a negative impact on the landed gentry in Europe.

your 'negative impact" doom and gloom scenario does not seem to have been the case in nearly every other modernized nation that has universal health care.

Are you also against unemployment insurance?

[Drj312]

Is anyone else at least happy that our tax money wont be paying for abortions?

I was very relieved when they added that to the bill

[Neognosis]

didn't matter to me any more than the idea of my tax money paying for executions.

[Startraveler]

Is anyone else at least happy that our tax money wont be paying for abortions?

I was very relieved when they added that to the bill

The government already subsidizes abortions by allowing employer-based plans that cover abortion to keep their tax exclusion.

[Drj312]

didn't matter to me any more than the idea of my tax money paying for executions.

yea i guess so, since killing murderers and rapists is the same thing as killing babies....

[Neognosis]

YOu don't believe that early term abortion is killing babies. You know that there is a gray area.

[Drj312]

YOu don't believe that early term abortion is killing babies. You know that there is a gray area.

well actually i do believe early term abortion is killing babies. that zygote has human DNA. its a human. early term abortion is still killing an innocent, defenseless human being

[Jack_of_Blades]

well actually i do believe early term abortion is killing babies. that zygote has human DNA. its a human. early term abortion is still killing an innocent, defenseless human being

What exactly is your definition of a human?

[ninjadude]

If these options exist, and they cost 15$ in copay if you have money (if you have no money on you, you can pay in installments)... Then where's the problem? I just don't see it?

First of all, if you have a copay you have insurance. Second installments?! lol! You are very mistaken my friend.

[ninjadude]

The only people I've heard of that were denied healthcare were those that had free healthcare..

The ER is not all there is to healthcare, it's emergency hospital care (the most expensive kind of care and drives up costs). Healthcare is going to the doctor.

[ninjadude]

Cool, but there's still the health department, which I can vouch for in the matter of non-emergency low cost medicine... Why doesn't this option suffice when it comes to health care needs?

that might get you a vaccination and referral. Little else.

[danielost]

We give the federal government more control, where does it end?

when you have to have a control number tattooed on your right hand or forehead.

[ninjadude]

I'm under the understanding that it's a state run facility that provides healthcare for low income individuals or families? T

Not.

[ninjadude]

And one can have as many children as they want since education and health care is free, right?

Health care is not free. You have to pay premiums.

[ninjadude]

So under this new Universal Healthcare Proposal, that doesn't have a public option, we all have to endure the same treatment as these unfortunate individuals? I'm not saying that these individuals don't or shouldn't be provided what they need in way of healthcare, but why make it mandatory for those that can afford insurance... Doesn't seem the least bit fair...

again you are greatly mistaken. No one is being forced into a government plan. You buy insurance just like you do today from private companies. Healthcare is not being socialized.