MissMelsWell Posted March 23, 2010 #151 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Just as a comparison 140,000 a year is considered Upper, Upper Class around here. My parents pulled together around one fifth that combined last year. It's all relative.... I live outside of Seattle... I'm getting close to selling my home. It's 1000sq ft, 1 bath (barely), no garage, built in 1942. The analysis came back that I should list it for 425K for a QUICK sale. The property will be listed as a tear down, although it's an adorable home, that is more than livable. So it's all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted March 23, 2010 #152 Share Posted March 23, 2010 This law isn't funded through an income tax. That was a different proposal. no not yet. but it will be funded by some tax. didnt you read if you go inside to get a tan your going to pay for this healthcare. do you think enough people get indoor tans to pay for 300 million peoples healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopie Posted March 23, 2010 #153 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Sooooo... ok, but whatever... they can either do something, or do nothing. So, they're doing something because they can't afford to do nothing. Kind of a catch-22 isn't it? the "You're stupid and can't get anything right" defense is a bad one, it means NOTHING gets done ever. You'll also find that most large and successful companies are like watching rodeo clows herding cats too... And I work at one of the most financially profitable companies this country has ever seen. Bill Gates for president? Ya, I didn't think that would float your boat either. So cramming this half a** plan through legislation without a true bi-partisan vote must be done, because next year we will all implode due to our inability to pay for healthcare? Haste makes Waste... but, the turd sandwich passed, and we're all gonna take bite... sigh.... The sins of our fathers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopie Posted March 23, 2010 #154 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Sooooo... ok, but whatever... they can either do something, or do nothing. So, they're doing something because they can't afford to do nothing. Kind of a catch-22 isn't it? This mentality brought you the 2 wars you cry injustices about. how is one quick fix more honorable than the other? Edited March 23, 2010 by Poopie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoIverine Posted March 23, 2010 #155 Share Posted March 23, 2010 You decide that you don't want to live under a constitution. Please, neither of the current parties give a damn about the Constitution, if you even have a glimmer of thought that they do, you're delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Render Posted March 23, 2010 #156 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) When you make millions of the population dependent on the governement, it is never a good idea and is not what made America the nation it is. Cost is the problem, having somebody else pay for it does not bring down cost but merely transfering the problem to someone else. Exactly, it didn't make America what is it today. And just look what shape it is in now. You seem to not get how the cost thing works. Everybody chips in a tiny bit, making it all more affordable for anyone. Ppl like you have the tendency to only bring up "well then im paying for someone who, in my limited eyesight, doesn't deserve it". Well, maybe you could think a lil further outside of the box eh? You're also helping yourself making it more affordable when needed. And all the ppl you care about who may need it in the future. And like it or not, victims of cancer and a like are rising. More ppl will need health care, and many wouldn't be able to afford it. And it's not your right to deny them that. It's not transferring any costs problems, horse manure. It's not like that system is going to render anyone poor, because they gave a bit of their paycheck to another person somewhere. Oh boy...that's a couple less donuts you can buy now, boo hoo. On the contrary, it's designed to bring the lil man a tiny bit higher. Only pushing the economy forward. Which is exactly the reason the ppl chose Obama, because they believed he could do a better job at fixing the economy than the other candidate. And that's what he's doing. You can nag all you want about it. You obviously don't know what's good for you. The opposed speak out of selfishness. A lil sharing won't kill you. On the contrary, it'll do a better job at keeping everyone a live in a more or less decent state. Get with the times ppl, sheesh.. Americans Edited March 23, 2010 by Triade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopie Posted March 23, 2010 #157 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Exactly, it didn't make America what is it today. And just look what shape it is in now. You seem to not get how the cost thing works. Everybody chips in a tiny bit, making it all more affordable for anyone. Ppl like you have the tendency to only bring up "well then im paying for someone who, in my limited eyesight, doesn't deserve it". Well, maybe you could think a lil further outside of the box eh? You're also helping yourself making it more affordable when needed. And all the ppl you care about who may need it in the future. And like it or not, victims of cancer and a like are rising. More ppl will need health care, and many wouldn't be able to afford it. And it's not your right to deny them that. It's not transferring any costs problems, horse manure. It's not like that system is going to render anyone poor, because they gave a bit of their paycheck to another person somewhere. Oh boy...that's a couple less donuts you can buy now, boo hoo. On the contrary, it's designed to bring the lil man a tiny bit higher. Only pushing the economy forward. Which is exactly the reason the ppl chose Obama, because they believed he could do a better job at fixing the economy than the other candidate. And that's what he's doing. You can nag all you want about it. You obviously don't know what's good for you. The opposed speak out of selfishness. A lil sharing won't kill you. On the contrary, it'll do a better job at keeping everyone a live in a more or less decent state. Get with the times ppl, sheesh.. Americans More Canadian Propaganda... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siara Posted March 23, 2010 #158 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Well... It is a goal. My actual Goal in Life is to raise kids that are together enough to decide about religon for themselves, who stay away from drugs, who don't get involved with criminals, and who can function without therapy every week. Great goal (though awesomely challenging!). Excuse me if I got a bit overheated on this thread last night. Same to you Poople... sorry for being a jerk. -------------------------------------------------- Where I live $140,000 is squeaking by. Where I used to live it was upper class. Just goes to show how meaningless those statistics can be. . Edited March 23, 2010 by Siara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted March 23, 2010 #159 Share Posted March 23, 2010 God forbid you want to start a business that supports the economy of your community. As a future business owner (something I'm selling my home for) health care providing it for myself and my future employees is something that is dangerously threatening my business plan. It's simply unaffordable. You've OBVIOUSLY never written a business plan, proposal or owned your own business. That is something I've been planning for about 8 months now, and believe I'll be able to do it in about 10 months from today. However I can guarentee you that a small retail shop, with a niche market, isn't going to make $250k a year, in fact, probably never will under any circumstances. We're talking a neighborhood shop here, and possibly an online catalog as well... Even the most successful of these types of shops, after expenses (overhead), make on average 70K a year after years of likely running in the red. Honestly? I made more than that grinding away in corporate America. But, I want to be my own boss and sell a product I LOVE. Health care and the provision of it to future employees could break my operating costs. without some kind of reform of health care, I won't be able to provide my commuity a retail outlet for a product. It's THAT expensive. I was all for a sweeping reform and possibly regulation of the ENTIRE medical industry, rather than UHC, but no one wanted to touch that one with a 10ft pole. No, I want people to be able to afford to open businesses, I want to be able to get health care without losing my home, my one lame vehicle and what savings I have which isn't a lot at my age (in fact, it doesn't exist at all now that I was out of work for 7 months last year... the first time I was out of work in 25 years of working). Beat your chest a little more... America SUCKS if it can't even keep it's citizens healthy. Do you really not know a single person who is hard working and is BURIED in medical debt? I don't mean a few hundred bucks, or even a few thousand , but tens and tens of thousands. It's deplorable how many people I know in that that situation... I suspect I'm quite a bit older than you are. Doesn't this new bill require business owners to provide insurance for their emplyees or be fined? And will we still be paying for insurance, so to speak, but it will be in the form of taxes instead of paying an insurance company? But, on the other hand they say you can be fined/jailed for not having health insurance like they can do with not having car insurance. There is so much conflicting information out there I'm getting confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rideron Posted March 23, 2010 #160 Share Posted March 23, 2010 All consitutionality, politics and partisanship aside; We're never gonna be able to fund this. This is a result of politicians losing touch with the consequences of reality... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted March 23, 2010 #161 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Don't know if it's the economy or Obama himself but American politics has gotten really nasty of late. Don't recall there being this deep of a divide when Bush was running around. It was definitely divided, but not as nasty. I don't think liberals accept as much dishonesty in their political slandering, and generally are less vicious. I don't know what world these airheads above are living in. I suppose comparing W. to a chimp, Hitler, Satan, and whatever isn't "nasty?" Doesn't anyone here know anything about history? For God's sake, people, aren't you aware that a sitting Vice President shot and killed a former Treasury Secretary because of the exact same so-called "political slandering?" Please, your liberal crap don't smell any better than that of the conservatives. It's no worse today than it was three years, 12 years, twenty years, sixty years, 200 years ago. Same crap, different names. HArte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siara Posted March 23, 2010 #162 Share Posted March 23, 2010 It's no worse today than it was three years, 12 years, twenty years, sixty years, 200 years ago. You're wrong about that Harte. It's much worse than it was 12 or 20 years ago. Can't speak for 60 or 200, old though I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neognosis Posted March 23, 2010 #163 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I suppose comparing W. to a chimp, Hitler, Satan, and whatever isn't "nasty?" the left are not as quick to parade around with guns or as quick to make allusions to assassination though. They also don't spew as many falsehoods as you will find any given day on Glen Beck or hannity. Nor as they as venomous. imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted March 23, 2010 #164 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) the left are not as quick to parade around with guns or as quick to make allusions to assassination though. They also don't spew as many falsehoods as you will find any given day on Glen Beck or hannity. Nor as they as venomous. imo Yes they are. Just not while thier people are in power. CNN looked just like Fox during Bush's last few years. Edited March 23, 2010 by preacherman76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted March 23, 2010 #165 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) I don't know what world these airheads above are living in. I suppose comparing W. to a chimp, Hitler, Satan, and whatever isn't "nasty?" Doesn't anyone here know anything about history? For God's sake, people, aren't you aware that a sitting Vice President shot and killed a former Treasury Secretary because of the exact same so-called "political slandering?" Please, your liberal crap don't smell any better than that of the conservatives. It's no worse today than it was three years, 12 years, twenty years, sixty years, 200 years ago. Same crap, different names. HArte Oddly enough I wasn't alive when dueling was common practice. And it's nice to see that you were able to determine my political leanings based on a general comment. And awesome that you used insults to start the post, really helps your position. For the record the links made between Bush and Hitler were stupid and I believe still are stupid, just like the links now between Obama and Hitler. But from what I recall there were no one was calling for the need of a civil war when Bush was in charge. There were claims that Bush was taking too much power but news networks weren't claiming that he was destroying the American way of life and that he was creating a facist society. There were plenty of people who hated him and believed his actions were wrong but I never got the feeling that he had to be stopped at all costs or American would be destroyed. However I'm now getting that vibe with people's reactions to Obama. Frankly I think the overraction to Obama to be silly and in fact more harmful than anything that Obama would do. And if the anti-war protesters had gone over the top with Bush I would have had the same opinions about them as well. Edited March 23, 2010 by Corp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenfahr Posted March 23, 2010 #166 Share Posted March 23, 2010 And then some people start driving recklessly simply because they don't have to pay for their own consequences. Oh common, people drive recklessly anyway.... and that is actually against the law. Im saying there is way too much power given to the insurance companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 23, 2010 #167 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Exactly, it didn't make America what is it today. And just look what shape it is in now. You seem to not get how the cost thing works. Everybody chips in a tiny bit, making it all more affordable for anyone. Ppl like you have the tendency to only bring up "well then im paying for someone who, in my limited eyesight, doesn't deserve it". Well, maybe you could think a lil further outside of the box eh? You're also helping yourself making it more affordable when needed. And all the ppl you care about who may need it in the future. And like it or not, victims of cancer and a like are rising. More ppl will need health care, and many wouldn't be able to afford it. And it's not your right to deny them that. It's not transferring any costs problems, horse manure. It's not like that system is going to render anyone poor, because they gave a bit of their paycheck to another person somewhere. Oh boy...that's a couple less donuts you can buy now, boo hoo. On the contrary, it's designed to bring the lil man a tiny bit higher. Only pushing the economy forward. Which is exactly the reason the ppl chose Obama, because they believed he could do a better job at fixing the economy than the other candidate. And that's what he's doing. You can nag all you want about it. You obviously don't know what's good for you. The opposed speak out of selfishness. A lil sharing won't kill you. On the contrary, it'll do a better job at keeping everyone a live in a more or less decent state. Get with the times ppl, sheesh.. Americans Its obvious this poster is not paying attention... Everybody takes a hit - resulting in everybody's standard of living lowers - yet again - ESPECIALLY the POOR.... What do you think the extra 16500 IRS agents are for ding-a-ling??? -to give the poor rides to the hospital? And here's the kicker... Obama's™ fixing the economy??? What planet are you living on? The largest heist in the history of mankind is happening right now and its the investment banks doing the robbing. The Barack Obama™ you speak of appointees to handle the economic crisis has been very telling of who Obama™ really works for - and its not for americans. As for healthcare the AMerican version is different than Canada's universal healthcare plans because in Canada our plans are sub-divided by each Province. And whats happening, in wake of the financial crisis, is Canadians are being told to take a number, wait in line, don't call us we'll call you PLUS massive cutbacks and government-forced privatization of areas in healthcare-hospital related positions where workers have been forced to accept lower wages in return for job security and weak benefit packages. ******* Too many canadians actually believe that healthcare is the same across Canada..... which is totally false. Michael Moore could be blamed for this.... His healthcare documentary mis-represented canada because he ONLY focused on the Province of ONTARIO............. Hellooooooooooooo! Fact: Most canadians will be able to name the past 4 american presidents BEFORE they can name the past 4 canadian Prime Ministers. ----this tells a person a whole lot about what influences the average North American = American television™. Edited March 23, 2010 by acidhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted March 23, 2010 #168 Share Posted March 23, 2010 (edited) Fact: Most canadians will be able to name the past 4 american presidents BEFORE they can name the past 4 canadian Prime Ministers. ----this tells a person a whole lot about what influences the average North American = American television. Stephen Harper, Paul Martin, Jean Chretien, Kim Campbell, Brian Multoney What do I win? Edited March 23, 2010 by Corp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidhead Posted March 23, 2010 #169 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Stephen Harper, Paul Martin, Jean Chretien, Kim Campbell, Brian Multoney What do I win? For you Mr. Corp.....- A brownie-badge. ******* Ask your friends when they're not around a computer. Than ask them who the past 4 american presidents were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopie Posted March 23, 2010 #170 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Great goal (though awesomely challenging!). Excuse me if I got a bit overheated on this thread last night. Same to you Poople... sorry for being a jerk.--------------------------------------------------Where I live $140,000 is squeaking by. Where I used to live it was upper class. Just goes to show how meaningless those statistics can be.. but those meaningless statistics apply themselves to Americans, so they're not so meaningless.... Don't apologize. You have a right to be p***ed. I am an a**hole. So are you, but we find common ground in wanting the best for our country... We just have a different perspective that's all... Quite honestly arguing over threads about politics is futile, because there will be no end result or flawless equation. the left are not as quick to parade around with guns or as quick to make allusions to assassination though. They also don't spew as many falsehoods as you will find any given day on Glen Beck or hannity. Nor as they as venomous. imo Oh Please, leave it up to the media to fight their own war... Don't lump us into a category of sheepies that follow wild men like beck. They report, we decide. Both sides of the media are extremely radical, but there's only one conservative network... The proverbial wrench thrown in the liberal hippie machine... Most people that b**** about firearms are those that don't own them, won't own them... from what I recall there were no one was calling for the need of a civil war when Bush was in charge. Because hippies just whine and think everything's solved through diplomacy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corp Posted March 23, 2010 #171 Share Posted March 23, 2010 For you Mr. Corp.....- A brownie-badge. Yes! *runs off to add it to his others* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 23, 2010 #172 Share Posted March 23, 2010 So I heard in the news that obamas plan to reform the american health care system has been past. I've also heard many people in the states are angry about this. As a canadian citizen, I'm used to everyone getting free health care, and to me helping the sick really doesn't seem like that big of a deal.In fact it just seems outright obscure that anyone would not be on board. That said I would like to hear from those that disapprove to understand why they think giving health care to the poor is a bad thing. - personally believe its just a matter of left wing right wing politics myself. Just the few posts I read through thus far, illustrates that few are actually informed, but afraid the "concerns" that they have are their own fears expressed IMO, on the now signed health care bill. Some are just conditioned to be lead by the limbic region of the brain (emotions/fear). For example: the abortion drama, there was no federal funding for abortion included in the bill, as per the conditions of the Hyde amendment. It was basically ignorance that fuels the fear. its a lifestyle; a world view; that is fearful... It wouldn't matter what it was, the filter is fear, in this frame one rally's for negativity, including threats of revenge. It's part and parcel of a fear mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theGhost_and_theDarkness Posted March 23, 2010 #173 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Just the few posts I read through thus far, illustrates that few are actually informed, but afraid the "concerns" that they have are their own fears expressed IMO, on the now signed health care bill. Some are just conditioned to be lead by the limbic region of the brain (emotions/fear). For example: the abortion drama, there was no federal funding for abortion included in the bill, as per the conditions of the Hyde amendment. It was basically ignorance that fuels the fear. its a lifestyle; a world view; that is fearful... It wouldn't matter what it was, the filter is fear, in this frame one rally's for negativity, including threats of revenge. It's part and parcel of a fear mindset. That would be my take on it as well. There are a few words you can shout to insight fear every time, IE- abortion and socialist. With that fear the capacity to reason or think for ones self goes out the window and you become a child in the arms of the fear mongers, willing to do whatever they tell you you should do to be "safe" again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegaSinclair Posted March 23, 2010 #174 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I'm happy to see health care reform passed and look forward to seeing it evolve over the years. If more people are required to buy something, whatever that may be, the price of that product or service drops. It's the basics of supply and demand. If people weren't required to have auto insurance, then less people would buy it because they would think "I'll never crash my car." and the people who do buy car insurance will have to pay a higher price because there is less people putting money into the pool. I think and hope that this will lead to more people getting annual checkups (preventive medicine) and lead to a healthier nation. Will this lead to universal health care or single-payer where we are all under a government health care plan? I don't know and I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing. One could argue that the government isn't good about managing their current government health care plans (Medicare and Medicaid) but at least they have experience as opposed to a country starting from scratch learning how to manage government-run health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poopie Posted March 23, 2010 #175 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Oh, you've broken down to a science... I keep forgetting how intellectually superior you leftist are.... You have a solution for everything, and negate the variable called reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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