Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
pimpo911

Ouija board and pendulum Dowsing

30 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

pimpo911

I've heard that playing with the ouija board can be dangerous but what about dowsing with a pendulum? is it the same thing? Can it be dangerous too?

chartbig.gif

300px-Rev_fred_pendulum_dowsing.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IronGhost

Neither are dangerous, and pretty much the same principle is at work with both instruments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sinewave

They are really only dangerous if the users are highly impressionable or mentally ill. The mechanism that makes all of them work is the ideomotor effect which is a well documented and understood tendency for the operators to consciously or subconsciously effect the outcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cpjason

They perform identical functions, but the crystal is also used by clairvoyants to locate people on maps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IronGhost

I realize the ideometer effect is something that can be demonstrated in a lab, and that it is "something" but it's best to understand that the ideometer effect is an "artifact" that can be isolated and pulled from an overall situation that is more complex.

Remember that the Ouija board and the dousing system mentioned here have at their center the manipulation of symbols. And to that end, let me just quote the first line of Frank Herbert's (the author of Dune) excellent book, "The Jesus Incident":

"There is a gateway to the imagination you must enter before you are conscious, and the keys to the gate are symbols. You carry ideas through the gate ... but you must carry the idea in symbols."

When you think about this line, you'll understand more about the value of the Ouija board or other symbolic systems of manipulating the imagination through symbols.

Sure, the Ouija board or a dousing system does not work if all people maniplualting the system are blindfolded, thus demonstrating the value of the ideometer effect theory. But it's completely beside the point.

Can you drive a car while being blindfolded? Of course not; you'd crash and kill yourself. But then we don't go further and say the car is a worthless tool because it can't be used blindfolded.

The key to understanding the value of the Ouija is in how it helps us interact with symbols which are the "keys to the gate of the imagination."

As Carl Jung said: "Conscisouness precedes being." And so imagination precedes being, too.

When you think about it this way, you'll think of the Ouija in a whole new way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sinewave

I realize the ideometer effect is something that can be demonstrated in a lab, and that it is "something" but it's best to understand that the ideometer effect is an "artifact" that can be isolated and pulled from an overall situation that is more complex.

Remember that the Ouija board and the dousing system mentioned here have at their center the manipulation of symbols. And to that end, let me just quote the first line of Frank Herbert's (the author of Dune) excellent book, "The Jesus Incident":

"There is a gateway to the imagination you must enter before you are conscious, and the keys to the gate are symbols. You carry ideas through the gate ... but you must carry the idea in symbols."

When you think about this line, you'll understand more about the value of the Ouija board or other symbolic systems of manipulating the imagination through symbols.

Sure, the Ouija board or a dousing system does not work if all people maniplualting the system are blindfolded, thus demonstrating the value of the ideometer effect theory. But it's completely beside the point.

Can you drive a car while being blindfolded? Of course not; you'd crash and kill yourself. But then we don't go further and say the car is a worthless tool because it can't be used blindfolded.

The key to understanding the value of the Ouija is in how it helps us interact with symbols which are the "keys to the gate of the imagination."

As Carl Jung said: "Conscisouness precedes being." And so imagination precedes being, too.

When you think about it this way, you'll think of the Ouija in a whole new way.

When tested in double blind situations, dowsers are successful at chance levels. Have you seen the Ouija test Penn and Teller did where they blindfolded the participants and rotated the board 180 degrees without their knowledge. Very illuminating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IronGhost

When tested in double blind situations, dowsers are successful at chance levels. Have you seen the Ouija test Penn and Teller did where they blindfolded the participants and rotated the board 180 degrees without their knowledge. Very illuminating.

Yes, I've seen the debacle of the Penn and Teller video. When I want to understand complex issues of consciousness, the interactions of the brain with symbols and imagination -- I turn to a cheap, low-brow Las Vegas act to get the final word on what is really going on in this complex, subtle situation.

The Penn and Teller video is a disater of circular logic and classic flatlander thinking. It's a perfect example of tailoring facts to fit a thesis. They start with a conclusion, and then only examine evidence which supports their preconceived conclusion. They also make an extra strenuous effort to find only the goofiest people they can find for their tests, and then base their conclusion on finding the worst test subjects imaginable.

There is one amazing moment in the P & T video when the Ouija board actually works correctly -- when they ask the participants to contact a dead TV star. They try to do so -- and they get a successful result. The challenge was to see if an Ouija board could contact a dead movie star -- and it seemed to have done so.

From a correct result, Penn and Teller somehow claim proof that Ouija does not work, when in this case, it did. They say: "See, anyone can do it."

Well, that's right, anyone can do it. So, therefore, Penn & Teller say, it must be all bulsh*t. Penn & Teller say: "Anyone can do it; therefore it's bullsh*t."

That's not good logic, or critical thinking.

Penn & Teller didn't care what result the Ouija board would give, as long as they said it was wrong no matter what the result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sinewave

Yes, I've seen the debacle of the Penn and Teller video. When I want to understand complex issues of consciousness, the interactions of the brain with symbols and imagination -- I turn to a cheap, low-brow Las Vegas act to get the final word on what is really going on in this complex, subtle situation.

The Penn and Teller video is a disater of circular logic and classic flatlander thinking. It's a perfect example of tailoring facts to fit a thesis. They start with a conclusion, and then only examine evidence which supports their preconceived conclusion. They also make an extra strenuous effort to find only the goofiest people they can find for their tests, and then base their conclusion on finding the worst test subjects imaginable.

There is one amazing moment in the P & T video when the Ouija board actually works correctly -- when they ask the participants to contact a dead TV star. They try to do so -- and they get a successful result. The challenge was to see if an Ouija board could contact a dead movie star -- and it seemed to have done so.

From a correct result, Penn and Teller somehow claim proof that Ouija does not work, when in this case, it did. They say: "See, anyone can do it."

Well, that's right, anyone can do it. So, therefore, Penn & Teller say, it must be all bulsh*t. Penn & Teller say: "Anyone can do it; therefore it's bullsh*t."

That's not good logic, or critical thinking.

Penn & Teller didn't care what result the Ouija board would give, as long as they said it was wrong no matter what the result.

It is only a disaster perhaps because it does not validate your beliefs. If you believe it connects you to some greater truth, go for it. The fact of the matter is there is no proof of any mystical connection through a piece of cardboard and plastic apart from the rantings of believers. That is just one example. There are others. Why did it fail so miserably? My guess is because it very likely is BS.

Edited by sinewave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paranormalcy

This isn't about the Ouija board, this is about the pendulum.

So Iron Ghost, do you think the Pendulum uses ideomotor theory mainly, or do you think it too can be "guided" by unseen forces, where the ideomotor effect is a part but it not the cause itself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
JohnSage

I just want to take a moment and applaud both IronGhost and Sinewave. Your debate is easily one of the most intelligent and expertly articulated I have read. I am makin some pop corn and kickin back to wait for you both to post more, get out your pen and paper folks this is how you debate!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rosewin

I kinda take it that Iron is not giving credit to unseen forces but rather our own imaginations and consciousness and how they interact with the greater environment, how they are the greater environment?

Edited by Rosewin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PhenomInvestigator

The pendulum seems to be the result of minute muscle movements which is the heart of most if not all dowsing reactions. What motivates these micro-muscular remains open to debate.

The Ouija is most easily explained by one of two things. Most common is again some form of motor force when physical contact is made with the board's planchette. However when the planchette moves for an extended time on its own, this is more likely the result of a form of mind influencing the environment otherwise known as PK or psychokinesis. There has been over forty years of research into PK influencing macro physical objects. And this research has clearly established that PK agents are quite real and in all cases, are living individuals. While other explanations might exist, the most plausible to date based on careful observation in both the laboratory and the field, is that living PK agents are responsible for this a bit more extreme phenomena.

The real question at the heart of this is to what if any is there any outside influence? Put more simply, do spirits in any way influence any of these things? While it is tempting to believe that the dead might speak through these devices, it is more probable that the participants' subconscious minds are involved. Even when apparently unknown information is imparted, it still makes more sense that the real causal agents are the people in the room itself. Not as enticing a notion perhaps, but one that is much better supported.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
April_Rose

If you saw the ouija planchette or glass moving without anyone touching it what would you think? I saw it do this, the glass spun widely out of control...no one had a finger on it...and that's no BS.

Edited by April_Rose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paranormalcy

I would have to SEE a glass or indicator move by itself for any amount of time at all besides coasting to a stop - I simply find these claims unbelievable - no offense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
April_Rose

I would have to SEE a glass or indicator move by itself for any amount of time at all besides coasting to a stop - I simply find these claims unbelievable - no offense.

Well i kinda do take offence because one thing i really hate is LIES, trust me when i say that i'm not in the habbit of making things up, if i say something happened,it did happen. I know that it's difficult to believe something from someone you don't know though.

Anyways try it for yourself...ask the board to move the glass/planchette by itself,see if it happens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pauly Dangerously

I have played with Ouija boards and pendulums and dowsing rods and never once have I had anything happen that defied explanation. Never once did I have anything move by itself.

Regardless of whether or not you're offended, we are on the internet, and someone's word isn't worth anything. If I came in here saying I had played with a Ouija board and the board lifted up off of the table and started spinning and the room burst into flame, without proof, it's just a story. It's valididty is unestablished, therefore not worth considering as an actual happening. Just another story. Now, if you were to do this same test in a lab at a college university, under controlled circumstances, and got the planchette to move on it's own, then we have something worth looking at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cryptid_Control

I dont think I belive in the Ouijia board or the Pendulum. If there are ghosts I dont think they could move things like "poltergeists". I mean, why move a plastic thing on a board, why wouldent the spirit just pick up a pen and paper and write a letter. Or if they can move things shouldent they be able to talk clearly, or even be seen? I dont understand how a piece of cardboard with letters drawn on it could attract spirits. So, no. I dont think the Ouijia board or Pendulum are dangerous.

That was my longest post in a while, its kind of sad.

CC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cryptid_Control

I have played with Ouija boards and pendulums and dowsing rods and never once have I had anything happen that defied explanation. Never once did I have anything move by itself.

Regardless of whether or not you're offended, we are on the internet, and someone's word isn't worth anything. If I came in here saying I had played with a Ouija board and the board lifted up off of the table and started spinning and the room burst into flame, without proof, it's just a story. It's valididty is unestablished, therefore not worth considering as an actual happening. Just another story. Now, if you were to do this same test in a lab at a college university, under controlled circumstances, and got the planchette to move on it's own, then we have something worth looking at.

And a pretty good story that would be! And you are 100% correct!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
puridalan

ROFL Oujji boards and pendulums are verrry different. One I do not believe in..at all it's a stupid board I heard about a few years ago...with letters on it..I think not, it's the "how to make yourself look like a moron and highly insulting" guide to bs.

However, the pendulum I do use on occasion, not to spot for ghosts though. Use it to find certain energy fields if I am lazy instead of using my hands as much, find where the energy is at most in the ground ie more metals in one location ect...but I can do this with my hands as well. Pendulums though can have good 'unblocking' or 'blocking' properties based on how you use them and what type of rock it is..since each person has different body chemistry and each rock is composed of different materials. I like quartz, rose quarts..also the cut/number of faces is very important for the effectiveness. So the rock itself is of more importance, there is new light healing technology which combines such minerals..into the healing process...long story, and I'm not allowed to say more than that on here..but it does work.

But if you want to 'talk' with ghosts, I suggest as in the other thread using 'you' as the only tool and not any other bs. It's just like when you talk to someone who is alive, you don't use a rock to communicate to them, you use body language and so forth to convey your thoughts. These instruements aren't dangerous lol..what is dangerous is when you don't know what the hell you are doing in the first place and just let negativity come in without sheilding..which isn't pertaining to merely the dead..but alive around you, who push negativity on to you all the time and many times most don't notice.

Edited by puridalan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cybele

They're both equally useless for doing anything other than talking to yourself or, in the case of Ouija, other participants. There's no reason to fear either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
puridalan

I disagree pendelums can have a use, just not really for ghost lol. Each to their own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pauly Dangerously

What are pedulums useful for? I know the history of th healing powers of crystals and stones, even spent a good deal of my youth training in Pranic Healing and Reiki. I know what they are supposed to do, but how do you find them useful?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
April_Rose

Well Paul Noise ... I'm not the only one who's experienced it move by itself,i've met a few other people who have experienced the same....it all depends on who's using the board with you though...it's never worked when i've used it by myself or with some other particular people...there were always a couple of people in particular who when they were around it produced very interesting results. As for boards bursting into flames...i would have a hard time believing that myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pauly Dangerously

Well Paul Noise ... I'm not the only one who's experienced it move by itself,i've met a few other people who have experienced the same....it all depends on who's using the board with you though...it's never worked when i've used it by myself or with some other particular people...there were always a couple of people in particular who when they were around it produced very interesting results. As for boards bursting into flames...i would have a hard time believing that myself.

So you find it more likely that the couple people whom the activity happened around are just more psychically tuned and not deliberately causing this phenomena?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
puridalan

What are pendulums useful for? I know the history of th healing powers of crystals and stones, even spent a good deal of my youth training in Pranic Healing and Reiki. I know what they are supposed to do, but how do you find them useful?

I was invited to do pranic training...though I didn't like the person's motives so I said no, mind you they own their own business. The same goes for the Reiki studio, which I am going to be getting my master degree this summer. Upfront, no I do NOT believe in all of what they teach; however, I do believe in healing power through hands..and it helps me to 'scan' people especially for things such as inflammation, deep tissue pain, knowing if their 5th cervical is off just by that alone. Even though I do not agree with what they teach fully, I do agree with that..hence why I am getting certified to practice it legally to get paid. I've already used it numerous times in multiple hospitals/nursing homes/other (not for money) and it has helped me and more so people have told me it's helped. It's not just that reiki 'is healing' it is more of the person and the person you are working on can heal themselves, and it's helping to direct them and focus on those areas and learn how to treat it based on a variety of methods. Whether it is a mental blockage they have with so and so, or a vit K deficiency. So, I believe and have seen (in a non religious method) that it has helped, not because of the symbols but rather the full intent..this just allows me to be closer to the patient and collect more data.

Pendulums CAN as well have healing effects...again you have to know what you are doing. It isn't going to do any good to wave a rock around and say magic healing powers..no it's knowing if that crystal, piece of iron ect works for that person..and what problem you are trying to target, there are tons of variables to account for. So, I wouldn't say it's the string that makes the difference..as the rock and how you use it. Now from my medical trips, there is new technology that is slowly becoming global the machine right now cost (10 grand) a pop, and part of it is made with 'rocks' with light technology...to re-create the restructure of the body..ie changing damage/lethargic cells to more energized/new...and this person has been well spending their life dedicated to this project, and believe me it does work. So, this new technology should probably be out to most doctors offices (one per office probably) in twenty years. You can buy them now, however, you will be paying 10 grand for one of them, but yes I can honestly say it's worth the investment. I know people all over the world that are using them from this man including places like Ireland, US, Europe...ect. So, it's not so much the pendulum itself..as what type of rock..and what is the intent and the combination provided.

This is going to sound crazy, but I basically 'charge' one rock with me every time I walk at night, I say if anyone is "following me or nearby" act weird to basically alarm me. Granted it's not like the rock jumps out of my pocket and does a dance...it could just be me focusing my mind to be alert..but I swear it's work for me 99 percent of the time..to where I turn around and there is a person 700 ft away from me. So, I in my own case/belief use it as another set of eyes if you will. You're body can do all of these things as well, sometimes though it's a different outlet to work out of. I hope that makes sense, obviously some people do/would find this method ridiculous, but that is their own entitlement, but it's certainly helped me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.