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EllJay

U.S. Army shoots and kill a Reuter photograph

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Poopie

Are you forgetting Canada is at war as well and we have soldiers experiencing the same things your boys are. Get off the high horse and as far as calling your allie (not you) Canaduh we could have started saying the United States of Amurderer but yes you are right I guess we have more tact than our brothers to the south.

I'll keep my balls. You keep your tact.

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President-Elect Acidhead

Why dont you just shut your mouth ,Your probally hide under your bed and cry like a baby,Whats your age 7?why arnt you in school and quit playing with your self ,youll go blind. and Call of Duty is a good game,You dont know me you fool and untill youve had bullets flying and hitting all around you in REAL LIFE,you dont know CACA,so go wipe ypur Canaduh butt cause your starting to stink.I served this REAL COUNTRY PROUDLY.and if I could do it again I would put in another 10 years you wimp.But You better get off the computer for your Mama finds you talking to real men,Go play with your little sister or something.

Is this guy for real?

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Pseudo Intellectual

Easy bro, most of clowns that are screaming murder aren't in the U.S....

Ironically, it's still the US military that's protecting them.

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Poopie

Plus this has nothing to do with comparing militaries... Please don't think your association with the canadian military allows you anymore expertise on matters of war.

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The Silver Thong

Says you, a civilian with absolutely no concept of how nasty counter insurgent conflicts are. I'm definately not condoning his language or speech but seriously beyond your skewed observation do you really think you understand that video?

So now only soldiers can tell what right from wrong is, ok fine have it your way. Civilians have a right to voice concern over the actions of said soldiers and if you don't like it I'm afraid you be a every mad person cause it won't go away. You or any soldier is not above criticism. No if you army guys want to go around talking like your voice on the war is the only voice that should be respected fine but it you won't be doing yourself any favors. You guys are talking like we are to dumb to realize that people get killed in war and thats not the case.

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The Unseen

Your comin off here lookin like a right ass. I may respect you for your service in the military but rants like this leave a lot to be desired here on UM. You have a temper and I bet it gets the better of you at times doesn't it. When people see images of people being killed what do you expect them to say "that was a right good killing now could you please pass the crumpets" From the video it does not appear that the Iraqi's and reporters posed much of a threat.

So what if I'm comming off looking like an ASS like you say.But yes it makes me mad when Jackasses who no nothing of WAR or anything can comment on thing and places that they never been.You dont know me and I wish you did then you could seen my heart break everytime one of our soldiers comes home in a casket like my real brother did,You wernt there to see the pain in my or myMothers eyes,I have a real bad temper but only for the foolish people who know nothing of war,death or the SERVICE to their COUNTRY.If you dont understand me and my heart ache everytime a fool like yourself bestows upon me then you are blind and not worth my time.Makes me glad I served in America and not Canada.I like yalls heath care though.JMO

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The Silver Thong

Plus this has nothing to do with comparing militaries... Please don't think your association with the canadian military allows you anymore expertise on matters of war.

I didn't compare militaries I said we have soldiers at war getting killed and killing as well so it's just not unique to the US.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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KingTomis

the unseen has never served

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dsm_luck

I would consider you a subject matter expert, but I'm not surprised that people will argue with you... Especially people that sit in front of their computer and have nothing better to do.

The thing that gets me is the message I tell people about my experience is meant to make people question the wars we fight. Usually though people on both sides of the fence do not want to hear what I have to say. They already have their neat little preconceptions about war and soldiers and have no want or need to hear about the nasty reality of war. One side thinks it doesn't happen and the other side blames the soldier for it. Neither side realizes that their position serves to increase the chance that we will be stuck in wars like this one in the future...

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The Silver Thong

So what if I'm comming off looking like an ASS like you say.But yes it makes me mad when Jackasses who no nothing of WAR or anything can comment on thing and places that they never been.You dont know me and I wish you did then you could seen my heart break everytime one of our soldiers comes home in a casket like my real brother did,You wernt there to see the pain in my or myMothers eyes,I have a real bad temper but only for the foolish people who know nothing of war,death or the SERVICE to their COUNTRY.If you dont understand me and my heart ache everytime a fool like yourself bestows upon me then you are blind and not worth my time.Makes me glad I served in America and not Canada.I like yalls heath care though.JMO

So the thread has become a flame war. Have at it pal oh and sorry about your brother man thats a crappy deal.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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President-Elect Acidhead

US-murder_iraqi_RPG4.JPG

US-murder_iraqi_RPG5.JPG

It's really quite sickening that the majority of you cannot see reality in this event.

You have an american patrol coming up on the area, being fired upon, you have a group of men gathering behind a corner surrounding at the very least one with an AK-47, from what I saw it looked like two. Then you see what appears to be a man with an RPG at the corner waiting for the upcoming american vehicle. It's not a gray area, their job was to follow the ROE, they followed it.

It's not even a case of mistaken identity because the reporters embedded themselves with AIF forces. They knew the risks of hanging around with insurgents so why the supprise that they were taken out with the insurgents they were standing beside? It's not like they were standing off to the side taking pictures, they were right up beside them, they knew, and accepted those risks.

That's a camera with a lens attached.

Cameras are what reporters use to take pictures with.

They use the pictures to illustrate their stories.

Without the photographs the stories would just be - stories.

The man holding the camera was shot and killed by the helicopter and than the men in the helicopter laughed as he was struggling to move.

One soldier openly was hoping for the reporter to grab his camera so he could shoot him again.

********

This invasion ain't war.... or a liberation....... WW2 was a liberating war.

This is an assault on a sovereign country for corporations™.

Big difference.

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Q24

Do you really believe that is why the US and GB were there? OIL OIL OIL OIL OIL. We wanted a huge military presence in the region to secure oil supplies because TPTB new there was an economic colapse on the horizon (since they evidently engineered that too).

The above was stated in response to my post. I did not mention oil at all but as you raise the subject, yes of course that is why our forces are all over the Middle East. Prior to 2001, those who came to power had stated the importance of the region and how they desired an increased military presence to promote U.S. global pre-eminence. This is documented fact.

Whilst I am posting, I would like to note my absolute agreement with dsm_luck in that this incident was not the fault of our forces – once they are sent into a warzone, they do the best job possible. The argument for me is not about why the incident occurred but the simple fact that it did occur. Without an unnecessary war, the situation that led to the incident would not exist in the first place.

As dsm_luck has said: -

“You fight the root cause (war) not the pawns trying to survive the deadly game of chess.”

“The problem is not the soldiers the problem is apathetic citizens who allow these conflicts to happen again and again.”

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The Unseen

Easy bro, most of clowns that are screaming murder aren't in the U.S....

Yes your right,Why is it that ... never mind it just aint worth fighting with Canadian People,Im used to fighting with someone worth killing.Cannada is a real nice place if it wernt for all the people there who hate us.My bad

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The Silver Thong

Is this guy for real?

It's the GI-Joe mentality.

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dsm_luck

So now only soldiers can tell what right from wrong is, ok fine have it your way. Civilians have a right to voice concern over the actions of said soldiers and if you don't like it I'm afraid you be a every mad person cause it won't go away. You or any soldier is not above criticism. No if you army guys want to go around talking like your voice on the war is the only voice that should be respected fine but it you won't be doing yourself any favors. You guys are talking like we are to dumb to realize that people get killed in war and thats not the case.

The right and wrong of a combat situation is not the moralistic right and wrong of the civil world. It is a throwback to our early tribal days. The "moral" highroad is the one that ensures that you and your "family" survive. The folly is trying to put morals into a context where nations are giving you the "right" to extingish another humans right to live. You are trying to civilize combat and put something you find deplorable into context. You cannot. War is a hellish thing and when you wage it you knowingly give up your morals and humanity. Instead of looking at this and disagreeing with an ROE that allows Americans to go home, you should look at this and say how the **** do I prevent our nations from getting to this point again.

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EllJay

To you the decision may seem drawn out, but they knew they had little time before the men could have split up.

The men weren't firing, or show intention of it and they acted out on an attempted attack on the helicopter by a camera.

Often insurgents would be killed only to have another person or car pull up and grab the weapons. The Iraqis were specifically told to stay back until US troops had cleared the area after a gunfight. The truck is honestly regretable and the only point of contention in this video.

There was plenty of time here to observe the situation and be clear that their was no threat, they where carrying the injured man, and not reaching for weapons, which there where non of there anyway since the shooting happened at the intersection.

For all the driver knows, who just drove by there, the fight was over and a injured man was laying on the sidewalk screaming in agony for help. To not help a person I that situation was obviously something this father couldn't bare, and he had to pay for it with his life, and getting his children shot.

I don't give a **** what they said about the RPG. No combat soldier/pilot would mistake RPG fire. You cant miss it. They didnt even need to see the men shoot one to engage, they already had enough reason to open up once they saw what they thought were weapons.

They stated they being fired upon by a camera, so clearly someone got their head up their a**.

No, lets not pretend that you dont have a negative bias twords soldiers. Its an insult to my intelligence and your as well.

Quit your assumptions.

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dsm_luck

The above was stated in response to my post. I did not mention oil at all but as you raise the subject, yes of course that is why our forces are all over the Middle East. Prior to 2001, those who came to power had stated the importance of the region and how they desired an increased military presence to promote U.S. global pre-eminence. This is documented fact.

Whilst I am posting, I would like to note my absolute agreement with dsm_luck in that this incident was not the fault of our forces – once they are sent into a warzone, they do the best job possible. The argument for me is not about why the incident occurred but the simple fact that it did occur. Without an unnecessary war, the situation that led to the incident would not exist in the first place.

As dsm_luck has said: -

“You fight the root cause (war) not the pawns trying to survive the deadly game of chess.”

“The problem is not the soldiers the problem is apathetic citizens who allow these conflicts to happen again and again.”

Someone understands...

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OverSword

Do these guys act, move around, dodge for cover like they where going to attack the helicopter?

Before when they walked along the street, or after when they just stood there at the corner?

They saw the helicopter in clear view and casually started to walk in different directions.

The reporter took a grave risk being there, most reporters do who work in war-zones and the photo-shot he did by the corner was open for interpretation. However, when the helicopter circled around and saw them standing there, doing nothing to raise weapons, or doing a "second attempt", and then casually walks against the helicopter (and some even in other directions) it should have given them some sort of clue to the threat-level.

But this is just a part of it all. On top of this we have the van-incident where no threat at all was shown and to top this off we have their appalling chitchat on the radio.

As I said earlier:

If they paid attention they would have seen that the person with the RPG was not at the corner, he couldn't possibly have gotten there, since he was going out of view in the midsection of the block while the camera spots the person at the corner 2-3 sec later. The thing (his camera) that he is holding with a Telephoto lens, clearly showing just before the flight-camera goes over the roof and he is out of view.

He raises the camera to take a photo-shot. A soldier already states there that he shot at them, even though thats obviously is not the case, which even more incite the soldiers.

When the helicopter comes around they just stands there, a group of 8 people just talking, when the helicopter is in clear view.

Hardly something you do if your intention is to shoot it down. Then they calmly starts to walk away, down the street when hell breaks loose on them and they are ripped to shreds.

It's not about the helicopter being attacked, that helicopter is like a mile away and the guys on the ground don't know it's there, the concern is there is an ambush being set up for the ground patrol which eventually arrives on the scene. You really are ignorant of what you're looking at here IMO.

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Drj312

US-murder_iraqi_AK47.JPG

US-murder_iraqi_RPG.JPG

US-murder_iraqi_RPG4.JPG

US-murder_iraqi_RPG5.JPG

It's really quite sickening that the majority of you cannot see reality in this event.

You have an american patrol coming up on the area, being fired upon, you have a group of men gathering behind a corner surrounding at the very least one with an AK-47, from what I saw it looked like two. Then you see what appears to be a man with an RPG at the corner waiting for the upcoming american vehicle. It's not a gray area, their job was to follow the ROE, they followed it.

It's not even a case of mistaken identity because the reporters embedded themselves with AIF forces. They knew the risks of hanging around with insurgents so why the supprise that they were taken out with the insurgents they were standing beside? It's not like they were standing off to the side taking pictures, they were right up beside them, they knew, and accepted those risks.

Silver Thong, this what i was trying to get you to see last night. the first two pictures show men clearly holding weapons, not cameras. the last two are pictures of a man holding a camera. Maybe there are two different versions of this video and thats why we were having a misunderstanding

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The Unseen

the unseen has never served

You dont know me ,Your statement is foolish.But its yours,I served Im 43 years old,Im just one of the walking dead.so I have know lies to share with you.You dont belive me well then thats your problem not mine ,I know the truth,I hate fighting with you guys but if you believe what you do then who am I to say your wrong,have a nice day.

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President-Elect Acidhead

Silver Thong, this what i was trying to get you to see last night. the first two pictures show men clearly holding weapons, not cameras. the last two are pictures of a man holding a camera. Maybe there are two different versions of this video and thats why we were having a misunderstanding

Is it illegal to own a rifle or an AK-47 in Iraq?

Or is this how the military distinguishes between an Iraqi citizen and an insurgent?

-if you are holding a weapon - you are the enemy.

Great logic.

Edited by acidhead

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Drj312

Is it illegal to own a rifle or an AK-47 in Iraq?

Or is this how the military distinguishes between an Iraqi citizen and an insurgent?

-if you are holding a weapon - you are the enemy.

Great logic.

Well, Im not sure about the laws. Do you know the laws? Im guessing that, at the time, it was illegal to be carrying a rifle or an rpg. In fact, im guessing its still illegal.

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KingTomis

You dont know me ,Your statement is foolish.But its yours,I served Im 43 years old,Im just one of the walking dead.so I have know lies to share with you.You dont belive me well then thats your problem not mine ,I know the truth,I hate fighting with you guys but if you believe what you do then who am I to say your wrong,have a nice day.

You type like a illiterate middle schooler, claim to be 43, yet your brother died serving, in what conflict was that might I ask?

If you were a soldier, you give us currently serving a bad reputation and you should keep your irate rantings to yourself, if you never have, which I suspect, you are far worse in my mind than those ranting against soldiers in here.

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KingTomis

You can have one AK-47 and one magazine per household to defend your home. It was widely known that if you leave your house/compound with a weapon you would be deemed hostile.

Only those looking for a fight walk down an Iraqi street carrying an ak-47 if they aren't part of the IP, a local militia or he iraqi army.

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Drj312

You can have one AK-47 and one magazine per household to defend your home. It was widely known that if you leave your house/compound with a weapon you would be deemed hostile.

Only those looking for a fight walk down an Iraqi street carrying an ak-47 if they aren't part of the IP, a local militia or he iraqi army.

Thank you. I figured it would be something like that.

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