Polish President killed in Plane Crash

[Space Commander Travis]

I don't think this has been posted yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612825.stm

Most probably Pilot error, I'd say, although feel free to construct a conspiracy theory if you wish.

[ExpandMyMind]

I don't think this has been posted yet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612825.stm

Most probably Pilot error, I'd say, although feel free to construct a conspiracy theory if you wish.

well there's always going to be speculation when a high level politician dies in such a rare manner. i wonder who would profit most from his death?

[Jack_of_Blades]

Most probably Pilot error, I'd say, although feel free to construct a conspiracy theory if you wish.

Goes without saying on these forums.

[sp840tril]

I know absolutely nothing about this cat and its not my fault, here in the US, the news is incredibly one sided and makes other countries look inferior. Was he well liked by his country or was he a person who everybody wanted to impeach?

[NorthernBallast]

I noticed that it was a Tupolev 154, those things have a poor reputation for safety and aren't very safe in the first place... I know someone who flew on one of them and had a layer of ice forming around the edges of the doors, for instance. I will not be surprised if this crash turns out to be mechanical failure of some sort, but I am still open to pilot error, not so much conspiracy theories. Coincidences happen. ~

[J.B.]

I'm wondering why they would have all those officials on a single plane anyway. Especially one with such a bad safety rep.

[Space Commander Travis]

I noticed that it was a Tupolev 154, those things have a poor reputation for safety and aren't very safe in the first place... I know someone who flew on one of them and had a layer of ice forming around the edges of the doors, for instance. I will not be surprised if this crash turns out to be mechanical failure of some sort, but I am still open to pilot error, not so much conspiracy theories. Coincidences happen. ~

Ah, "it's Russian, so therefore it can't be safe". I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a case of "Press on regardless. Divert? Diversions are for Easyjet".

"Flight controllers at Severnyy aerodrome suggested that the plane be forwarded to Minsk but as far as we know the crew took an independent decision to land the plane in Smolensk," Smolensk regional government spokesman Andrei Yevseyenkov told Russian TV.

[Space Commander Travis]

I'm wondering why they would have all those officials on a single plane anyway. Especially one with such a bad safety rep.

Look how many crashes there've been involving Airbuses and Boeings in the former USSR. Primarily due to weather conditions and sometimes somewhat gung-ho attitudes.

Edited April 10, 2010 by 747400

[J.B.]

Look how many crashes there've been involving Airbuses and Boeings in the former USSR. Primarily due to weather conditions and sometimes somewhat gung-ho attitudes.

Okay, let me rephrase, why so many people in a plane flying through an area with a bad safety reputation when it comes to flights?

[Princess Serenity]

Rest in peace, sir and the others.

[acidhead]

There is good news... Russia will investigate the crash.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/10/poland.president.plane.crash/index.html?hpt=T1

The Investigation Committee of the Russian prosecutor's office said the plane, a Tupolev-154, was trying to land in heavy fog.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev appointed Prime Minister Vladimir Putin to head an inquiry commission and sent Emergency Situations Minister Sergei Shoigu to the scene of the crash, the Kremlin said.

[Rhomphaia]

There is good news... Russia will investigate the crash.

I remember in 9th grade English, the teacher had a poster on the wall titled "Everything I know I learned from Star Trek." One of the entries was "Never put all of your ranking officers on one shuttlecraft". The Polish obviously don't watch Star Trek.

[Amberlight]

There is good news... Russia will investigate the crash.

That isn't good news. The Polls should investigate the crash, after all, it is their people who perished. Too weird.

[Space Commander Travis]

That isn't good news. The Polls should investigate the crash, after all, it is their people who perished. Too weird.

I wonder who'd be the more keen on covering something up? The Russians or the Poles, if it was pilot error? I think if you manage to kill your President, then you'd be pretty keen to shift blame onto someone else, wouldn't you.

[gabe]

That isn't good news. The Polls should investigate the crash, after all, it is their people who perished. Too weird.

It crashed in Russia so it makes sense for Russia to investigate it, though I think that Poland has a good excuse for launching an investigation in a foreign country considering the circumstances. I'm also sure Poland is investigating things on their end as well.

I saw an interview with a Polish ambassador who was very close to the President. He was on the verge of tears, and it was very heartbreaking.

Condolences to the entire country

Also, the Tupolev 154 has a very average safety rating

Edited April 10, 2010 by gabe

[Corp]

Got this list from another site. Seems the biggest impact is going to be on the Polish military. They lost a lot of top people in this crash.

OFFICIAL DELEGATION

1. Ryszard KACZOROWSKI - former president of Polish government-in-exile

2. Krzysztof PUTRA Vice-Marshal of the Sejm(polish parliament)

3. Jerzy SZMAJDZIŃSKI Vice-Marshal of the Sejm

4. Krystyna BOCHENEK Vice-Marshal of the Senate

5. Jerzy BAHR Polish Ambassador to Russia

6. Władysław STASIAK Chief of the President's Office

7. Aleksander SZCZYGŁO Chief of National Security Bureau

8. Jacek SASIN Secretary of State, and Vice-Chief of the President's Office

9. Paweł WYPYCH Secretary of State in presidents office

10. Mariusz HANDZLIK Secretary of State in president's office

11. Andrzej KREMER Secretary of State in Ministry of Foreign Affairs

12. Stanisław KOMOROWSKI Secretary of State in Ministry of Defence

13. Tomasz MERTA Secretary of State in Ministry of Culture and National Heirtage

14. General Franciszek GĄGOR Polish military Chief of Staff

15. Andrzej PRZEWOŹNIK Secretary of ROPWiM

16. Maciej PŁAŻYŃSKI President of "Polish Community" Association

17. Mariusz KAZANA Director of Diplomatic Protocol - Ministry of Foreign Affairs

Members of Polish Parliament:

1. Pan Leszek DEPTUŁA Poseł na Sejm RP

2. Pan Grzegorz DOLNIAK Poseł na Sejm RP

3. Pani Grażyna GĘSICKA Poseł na Sejm RP

4. Pan Przemysław GOSIEWSKI Poseł na Sejm RP

5. Pan Sebastian KARPINIUK Poseł na Sejm RP

6. Pani Izabela JARUGA – NOWACKA Poseł na Sejm RP

7. Pan Zbigniew WASSERMANN Poseł na Sejm RP

8. Pani Aleksandra NATALLI – ŚWIAT Poseł na Sejm RP

10. Pan Arkadiusz RYBICKI Poseł na Sejm RP

11. Pani Jolanta SZYMANEK – DERESZ Poseł na Sejm RP

12. Pan Wiesław WODA Poseł na Sejm RP

13. Pan Edward WOJTAS Poseł na Sejm RP

14. Pani Janina FETLIŃSKA Senator RP

15. Pan Stanisław ZAJĄC Senator RP

Additional Guests:

1. Pan Janusz KOCHANOWSKI Rzecznik Praw Obywatelskich

2. Pan Sławomir SKRZYPEK President of National Bank of Poland

3. Pan Janusz KURTYKA President of National Memory Institute

4. Pan Janusz KRUPSKI Chief of Combatant and victims of Repressions office

Religious Representatives

1. Bishop Division General Tadeusz PŁOSKI - Chaplain General of Polish Army

2. Archbishop Brigade General. Miron CHODAKOWSKI - The Orthodox Church Chaplain General of Polish Army

3. Priest Colonel Adam PILCH Evangelic Field Chaplain

4. Priest Colonel Jan OSIŃSKI Field Chaplain

Members of Katyń Families and other NGO

1. Pan Edward DUCHNOWSKI Seceretary General of Sibiraks (people forcibly sent to Siberia by soviet union)

2. Ks. prałat Bronisław GOSTOMSKI

3. Ks. Józef JONIEC President of Parafiada Association

4. Ks. Zdzisław KRÓL Chaplaian of Warsaw Katyń Family 1987-2007

5. Ks. Andrzej KWAŚNIK Chaplain of Katyń Families Association

6. Pan Tadeusz LUTOBORSKI

7. Pani Bożena ŁOJEK President of Polish Katyń Foundation

8. Pan Stefan MELAK President of Katyń Comitee

9. Pan Stanisław MIKKE Vice-president of ROPWiM

10. Pani Bronisława ORAWIEC - LOFFLER

11. Pani Katarzyna PISKORSKA

12. Pan Andrzej SARIUSZ – SKĄPSKI President of of Katyń Families Association

13. Pan Wojciech SEWERYN

14. Pan Leszek SOLSKI

15. Pani Teresa WALEWSKA – PRZYJAŁKOWSKA „Golgoha of the East” Foundation

16. Pani Gabriela ZYCH

17. Pani Ewa BĄKOWSKA granddaughter of Brig. Gen. Mieczysław Smorawiński

18. Pani Maria BOROWSKA

19. Pan Bartosz BOROWSKI

20. Pan Dariusz MALINOWSKI

Members of Polish Military

1. Lt. General Bronisław KWIATKOWSKI - Polish Military Operational commander-in-chief

2. Lt General Pilot Andrzej BŁASIK Polish Air Force commander-in-chief

3. Major General Tadeusz BUK Polish Army commander-in-chief

4. Major General Włodzimierz POTASIŃSKI Polish Special Forces commander-in-chief

5. Vice Admiral Andrzej KARWETA Polish Navy commander-in-chief

6. Brigade General Kazimierz GILARSKI - Commander of Warsaw Garrison

[gabe]

DAMN.

That is going to be hard to recover from. I really wish someone from Poland could be here and give their take on it.

[acidhead]

It crashed in Russia so it makes sense for Russia to investigate it, though I think that Poland has a good excuse for launching an investigation in a foreign country considering the circumstances. I'm also sure Poland is investigating things on their end as well.

I saw an interview with a Polish ambassador who was very close to the President. He was on the verge of tears, and it was very heartbreaking.

Condolences to the entire country

Also, the Tupolev 154 has a very average safety rating

You know.... The polish presidents identical twin brother was president just 3 years ago...... Hmmmmm...... think anybody would notice?

[Princess Serenity]

DAMN.

That is going to be hard to recover from. I really wish someone from Poland could be here and give their take on it.

My granddad is and I'm polish. Does that count?

Honestly, I think its a tragedy how this happen. And how many people were lost. I mourned for them silently.

[Space Commander Travis]

1. Lt. General Bronisław KWIATKOWSKI - Polish Military Operational commander-in-chief

2. Lt General Pilot Andrzej BŁASIK Polish Air Force commander-in-chief

3. Major General Tadeusz BUK Polish Army commander-in-chief

4. Major General Włodzimierz POTASIŃSKI Polish Special Forces commander-in-chief

5. Vice Admiral Andrzej KARWETA Polish Navy commander-in-chief

6. Brigade General Kazimierz GILARSKI - Commander of Warsaw Garrison

My word, talk about putting all one's eggs in one basket.

going to be a lot of vacancies at the Polish Pentagon, or whatever shape they have.

You'd think the pilot would have been extra-extra careful, with his boss aboard; or then, maybe he was thinking about trying to impress the boss with his press on regardless spirit. Who can say?

Edited April 10, 2010 by 747400

[Corp]

DAMN.

That is going to be hard to recover from. I really wish someone from Poland could be here and give their take on it.

Well the person who posted that list was Polish and their take seemed to be shock that it happened and wondering who so many top guys were on the one plane, which I guess is known for being unsafe. Also seems the president and the prime minister didn't really like each other.

EDIT: seems that the pilot is also a bit of a moron. So poor pilot + old plane + fog = crash

Edited April 10, 2010 by Corp

[J.B.]

I'd still like to know why they packed so many important people in on one plane.

[The Silver Thong]

I'd still like to know why they packed so many important people in on one plane.

I wonder if the people on the plane thought the same thing. That is a crippling blow to any government and wow who was the travel agent that planned this trip I wonder.

[Rhomphaia]

I'd still like to know why they packed so many important people in on one plane.

In spite of the joke I made earlier, which I see as common sense really, the reason is simple;

Poland isn't exactly the most wealthy nation in Europe...

[Sante]

Im from Poland. It's a great tragedy for us, Poles. Not only because of the disaster died Polish dignitaries, but for this that Polish citizens were killed. Too many people was wrighting about, but they dont know where Polish is.