Doggerland

[Piney]

1 minute ago, Antigonos said:

I don’t participate over there. I like re-reading through Lee’s research and that’s where the bulk of his threads are.

It's hard to read for me there. Usually I'm told by somebody about some Native misinformation and I put my 2 sense in as nasty as possible.

Harry was good for messaging me the loopy stuff and cracking up over my responses. 

 

[Thanos5150]

22 hours ago, Antigonos said:

@Thanos5150 Has a thread at GHMB about the monolith in the Sicilian channel from 2015 with a link to a peer reviewed paper but unfortunately I can’t link to it at the moment.

A submerged monolith in the Sicilian Channel (central Mediterranean Sea): Evidence for Mesolithic human activity

[edited to update link]

Edited May 9, 2023 by Thanos5150

[The Puzzler]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:04 AM, Piney said:

It's hard to read for me there. Usually I'm told by somebody about some Native misinformation and I put my 2 sense in as nasty as possible.

Harry was good for messaging me the loopy stuff and cracking up over my responses. 

 

I’m actually worried about you… your posts lately seem more “nasty” than I know you to be….

Edited May 10, 2023 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Starr Carr is the closest we have imo to know of Doggerland.

Fabulous red deer headdresses, a pendant with possible meaning..the headdress imo must correlate with the very much later Gundestrup Cauldron, of which they say is Celtic design, made inThrace…

Edited May 10, 2023 by The Puzzler

[Piney]

3 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

I’m actually worried about you… your posts lately seem more “nasty” than I know you to be….

I'm fine. Just trying to beat long covid, but I'm getting better.

Diet, exercise and chainsaw antics. 

 

 

[Antigonos]

5 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

I’m actually worried about you… your posts lately seem more “nasty” than I know you to be….

Some of those posters at GHMB ask for it.

Besides, I’ve read worse from Piney 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Antigonos

[Antigonos]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

I'm fine. Just trying to beat long covid, but I'm getting better.

Diet, exercise and chainsaw antics. 

 

 

That sucks, sorry to hear you’re sick. I hope you keep feeling better and are over it soon.

[Piney]

18 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

That sucks, sorry to hear you’re sick. I hope you keep feeling better and are over it soon.

Thanks!

Better every day. 

[Abramelin]

17 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Starr Carr is the closest we have imo to know of Doggerland.

Fabulous red deer headdresses, a pendant with possible meaning..the headdress imo must correlate with the very much later Gundestrup Cauldron, of which they say is Celtic design, made inThrace…

Another mesolithic settlement close to Doggerland would be Stellmoor, near Hamburg:

https://www.archaeologs.com/w/stellmoor/en

Edited May 11, 2023 by Abramelin

[Piney]

18 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Starr Carr is the closest we have imo to know of Doggerland.

Fabulous red deer headdresses, a pendant with possible meaning..the headdress imo must correlate with the very much later Gundestrup Cauldron, of which they say is Celtic design, made inThrace…

That's a correlation I can agree with. There are still horn dancers in Europe and the UK.

[Abramelin]

5 hours ago, Piney said:

That's a correlation I can agree with. There are still horn dancers in Europe and the UK.

There are and were horn dancers everywhere.

Like Siberian shamans, up to communistic times when it became forbidden by the communists.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

There are and were horn dancers everywhere.

Like Siberian shamans, up to communistic times when it became forbidden by the communists.

I'm familiar with the Chams. 

Mongolians also use them in their New Years ceremony.

Then there is the Deer Dances during Carnival in Oaxaca and among the Southern California tribes.

[The Puzzler]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:46 PM, Piney said:

That's a correlation I can agree with. There are still horn dancers in Europe and the UK.

Yes, how fabulous…Artemis, whose sacred dear Agamemnon killed, which is why he had to supposedly give up his dearest thing to her, the irony. 
Maybe we are still celebrating the pagan reindeer horn dancers, at Christmas.

[The Puzzler]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:06 PM, Abramelin said:

Another mesolithic settlement close to Doggerland would be Stellmoor, near Hamburg:

https://www.archaeologs.com/w/stellmoor/en

OK, yes, probably inhabited Doggerland at 8,500BC but must have been gone by 6,500BC, maybe this part of the Elbe became harder to get to.

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, The Puzzler said:

OK, yes, probably inhabited Doggerland at 8,500BC but must have been gone by 6,500BC, maybe this part of the Elbe became harder to get to.

Why would that part of the Elbe become harder to get to?

[The Puzzler]

12 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Why would that part of the Elbe become harder to get to?

I’m not sure, just wondering why Stellland is designated to about 9500BC and no later…I’m even allowing to 8500BC as per the first map explanation….so what attributed to its non existence?

Edited May 27, 2023 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Stellmoor, not Stelland 

[The Puzzler]

“makers of these characteristic projectile points have been identified with reindeer hunters since the excavation of sites such as Stellmoor in the Ahrensburg tunnel valley near Hamburg (Rust, 1943), the region which has given its name to the German Ahrensburgian group of this late Paleolithic technocomplex. Studies on the hunting practices and subsistence of these groups were carried out by Bratlund (1990, 1991a,b, 1996), who described in detail lesions of arrow impacts (Fig. 11), and by Bokelmann (1991a), who recently also identified hafting mastic on a typical tanged point from the classic Stellmoor lithic assemblage (Bokelmann, 1999a). In northwestern Lower Saxony, close to the Dutch border, surface collection and minor excavations at several localities have recovered important Lateglacial lithic assemblages, most of which are assigned to the Ahrensburgian (Gerken, 2000; Gerken and Linger, 1999). ...”

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Stellmoor-Schleswig-Holstein-Location-of-all-impact-points-on-skeletons-of-reindeer_fig11_225542801

 

[The Puzzler]

The whole system looks quite silted, filled in, today…

[The Puzzler]

“makers of these characteristic projectile points have been identified with reindeer hunters since the excavation of sites such as Stellmoor in the Ahrensburg tunnel valley near Hamburg …

 

 

 

[The Puzzler]

It’s interesting for sure“ A seasonal settlement.

Stellmoor[edit]

Stellmoor was a seasonal settlement inhabited primarily during October, and bones from 650 reindeer have been found there. The hunting tool was bow and arrow. From Stellmoor there are also well-preserved arrow shafts of pine intended for the culture's characteristic skaftunge arrowheads of flint. A number of intact reindeer skeletons, with arrowheads in the chest, has been found, and they were probably sacrifices to higher powers. At the settlements, archaeologists have found circles of stone, which probably were the foundations of hide teepees.

Edited May 27, 2023 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

16 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

“makers of these characteristic projectile points have been identified with reindeer hunters since the excavation of sites such as Stellmoor in the Ahrensburg tunnel valley near Hamburg …

 

And when the ice sheets retreated to the north, the reindeer went north too. And so did those hunting them. I have shown in this thread that eventually Doggerlanders moved north into Norway.

 

Others may have come in and occupied the same Stellmoor settlement much later.

https://donsmaps.com/iceagehunters.html

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

And when the ice sheets retreated to the north, the reindeer went north too. And so did those hunting them. I have shown in this thread that eventually Doggerlanders moved north into Norway.

 

Others may have come in and occupied the same Stellmoor settlement much later.

https://donsmaps.com/iceagehunters.html

 

[Piney]

On 5/27/2023 at 11:26 AM, Abramelin said:

And when the ice sheets retreated to the north, the reindeer went north too. And so did those hunting them. I have shown in this thread that eventually Doggerlanders moved north into Norway.

 

Others may have come in and occupied the same Stellmoor settlement much later.

https://donsmaps.com/iceagehunters.html

That's a cool site.

And yes a new group moving into a good procurement and living area is a given. 

[The Puzzler]

Doggerlanders to Norway, I agree.