Scar Posted June 28, 2004 #1 Share Posted June 28, 2004 (edited) This Debate will be either 1v1 or 2v2 , depending on the interest shown Should societies integrate their immigrants into one, national life-style? Or should they instead embrace all the different cultures represented in the country? First people who register their Interest will then move into their Opening Posts. I will flip a coin to see which side each debater(s) will take. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or problems Good Luck , May the best debater(s) Win Edited June 28, 2004 by Scar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falco Rex Posted June 28, 2004 #2 Share Posted June 28, 2004 I'd be interested in arguing this one if it's team vs. team. I've never been involved in a tag-team debate yet. It sounds fun.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naudia Posted July 4, 2004 #3 Share Posted July 4, 2004 I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpius Posted July 5, 2004 #4 Share Posted July 5, 2004 If this is a Tag Team Debate, then I'm in. If it's one versus one (1v1), then it's first come first serve--meaning I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar Posted July 5, 2004 Author #5 Share Posted July 5, 2004 I will wait until Friday to see if anyone else is interested , We only need 1 more for 2v2 Also I think Falco is only interested in a 2v2 , so unless he says otherwise Blue Scorpion your in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillcrazy Posted July 8, 2004 #6 Share Posted July 8, 2004 I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar Posted July 9, 2004 Author #7 Share Posted July 9, 2004 (edited) Right Looks like we have 2v2 , I have PM'd Naudia given he/she has only done 2 posts one being "Im in" Im reluctant to say GO just yet until I have thier Interest Confirmed. Watch this Space Edited July 9, 2004 by Scar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naudia Posted July 9, 2004 #8 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Third post I'll keep up I promise. -Naudia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpius Posted July 11, 2004 #9 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Did you still want my confirmation as well. Well, I guess this post is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scar Posted July 12, 2004 Author #10 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Okay here we go , Sorry for the delay. This will be 2v2 , Blue Scorpion and Falcorex will be arguing for Integration Naudia And stillcrazy will be for Multiculturalism The debate will consist of A combined opener and combined Closing, with 3 body posts by each member. Best of Luck to all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naudia Posted July 12, 2004 #11 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Opening Statement: Team Multiculturism will overwhelmingly prove embracing many cultures to be beneficial to a society as a whole. Multiculturalism expands on views, values opinions, and offers a larger realm. It is not secluded by difference, but offers a larger world to explore. The theory of forced integration of cultures is not only appalling and divisive but impossible.Consider the deaf community. This is a culture that thrives on their difference from the mainstream. How are we supposed to "integrate” their culture? The guiding light in this debate has to be identity. There will always be differences between nationalities; will “integration” only further exaggerate these differences? Yes. If we can not treasure our differences, we will learn to despise them. The stretch for common ground shouldn’t be a battle of whose culture or heritage should be considered most valuable, value should be placed on tolerance and respect. Integration attacks the very fibers of social tolerance leading only to racism and contempt. Community, Nationalism, and Identity can be found in respect and support, through multiculturalism. "When an opponent declares, "I will not come over to your side," I calmly say, "Your child belongs to us already... What are you? You will pass on. Your descendants, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community."- Adolph Hitler Sources: Idea Hitler Quotes Me, Myself, & I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpius Posted July 14, 2004 #12 Share Posted July 14, 2004 Introduction: Integration has been seen throughtout history and recent events. It will continue, inevitably, as a greater process to our cultures as transportation, communication, and business expands and broadens around the world. As with minds, the different ideas we contribute to each other and "integrate" into as a whole, can only improve an already unified society in many ways. Integration also offers a sense of a harmonious society, where immigrants and residents alike are able to communicate and live respectably as a whole, and without the barriers and fences seen throughout the world, which was created because of their differences in the beginning. With multiculturalism, there will always be groups of individuals who will want to be segregated, because of their differences. Consequently, nonsensical battles and arguements will erupt, which would not happen in an integrated society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillcrazy Posted July 15, 2004 #13 Share Posted July 15, 2004 The idea of multiple cultures living in harmony in a single location is sort of a “utopian world” idea when first discussed. But, in reality, it is an attainable utopian ideal if allowed to progress. The world has gotten smaller due to the speed in which we can now communicate around the globe in the blink of an eye. (Unless your using dial-up.) Our economies are tied across borders as well as cultural boundaries. We also have a migration of peoples that seek a better life in other countries due to many factors. Economic possibilities, freedom from oppression, the desire to live in a country that fits their religious beliefs. The list is diverse as the people. But one should not be required to forego centuries of tradition and culture or even basic values just because they crossed a border. They bring with them a heritage that is rich in history and tradition. And while they need to adjust to a new world and way of life, there should be no requirement that they need to stop their traditions because it is not the way of the host country. There are some who will claim the multi-culturism begets class wars, hatred and segregation. However, these things are not brought about by a certain person’s culture, but by pre-conceived ideas about others from another country. The walls of segregation that are built by differing groups in any given location, are wall fabricated by prejudice and bigotry, without an attempt to understand another’s country or cultural history. Have different cultures living and working in close proximity to one another allows everyone a chance to learn and understand how people from different nations deal with the realities of everyday life. It also allows children a better education in that they experience cultural history in their own back yard. It is not always easy to understand a country from reading a book or watching a TV program. But allowing those of different faiths, cultures and nation of origin the freedom to express their heritage, without fear of being ridiculed for that heritage, brings all of us closer to obtaining a world were we are all considered equal. Insisting that our new countrymen integrate and assimilate into our societies and our cultures robs them of their cultural heritage, and us from a better understanding of our fellow humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falco Rex Posted July 15, 2004 #14 Share Posted July 15, 2004 That's a beatiful sentiment,stillcrazy. Of course sentiment is essentially what the argument was; and while it might be nice to think that way we have to live in a much harder world... Now I'm not suggesting that people give up their traditions at gunpoint and "assimilate." We're not the Borg,after all. But what I am saying is that they shouldn't completely disrepect the culture they have moved to by completely ignoring it.. How many of you know a "China-town' or a "Little Odessa" or something similar near where you live? On the one hand some may enjoy it as a shopping district or something touristy. But think about it a little longer. What these cultural islands do is wall off immmigrants from the rest of the society they live in. How many people can shut themselves up in an ethnic neighborhood and never learn their adopted countries language or culture? And yet all the while they're pursuing a dream that we made possible, making money off a land they seem to have no respect for. It's divisive to say the least.. On the other side of the coin...How many people see these insular ethnic communities and react badly to them from a lack of understanding or personal knowledge of a culture they never really see? If the different cultures were mixed I believe we would get along much better than we do at the present. Allowing or forcing cultures to isolate themselves within a society only breeds ignorance and mistrust of each other.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naudia Posted July 17, 2004 #15 Share Posted July 17, 2004 But what I am saying is that they shouldn't completely disrepect the culture they have moved to by completely ignoring it.. How many of you know a "China-town' or a "Little Odessa" or something similar near where you live? On the one hand some may enjoy it as a shopping district or something touristy. But think about it a little longer. What these cultural islands do is wall off immmigrants from the rest of the society they live in. How many people can shut themselves up in an ethnic neighborhood and never learn their adopted countries language or culture? And yet all the while they're pursuing a dream that we made possible,making money off a land they seem to have no respect for. It's divisive to say the least.. They and we (we who?) seems to be more the problem then China-Town. These "walled-off" communities is what makes the US so incredibly unique. How many have enjoyed a romantic date to Little Italy, a taste of culture and heritage. These people treasure their former homelands, while bringing in revenue to the states they reside in. What a priveledge we all have to enjoy many cultures, without loseing our freedom. Allowing or forcing cultures to isolate themselves within a society only breeds ignorance and mistrust of each other.. Ha, haha, I agree. Forcing cultures to isolate themselves into one Nationally approved way of communicateing. "I'm sorry, but you have to sing the opera in english if you want to perform here." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpius Posted July 18, 2004 #16 Share Posted July 18, 2004 (edited) You can say that multi-culturalism at an economic stand-point is "multi-flawed". Sure you people can enjoy a little Italian here and a little Chinese cuisin there. Yet, there are those who do not enjoy one of these, both, or any other distinctive cuisine outside of their normal meals. Consequently, the money these people spend is only concentrated to one cuisine rather than to a diverse meal, and thus brings down the revenue of the restuarants who do not provide the popular cuisines. A more integrated meal with a bit of italian and chinese cuisine blended together can intice their taste buds and get them to enjoy a cuisine they used to hate. When this happens people end up being less picky than they would have, and thus increases the spread of economic wealth, rather than to one specific cuisine from a distinctive culture. On a more political and cultural note, in my observations, there are quite a few cultures that are so distinctive in their behaviours that some of us might find repulsive and rather intolerable. For example, the areas in parts of Congo are inhabited by cannibals. This would be a distinctive cultural difference, one that would create hostility between cannibalistic and non-cannibalistic cultures. If these people (the cannibals) were allowed into a multiculturalistic society they would be respected for their differences in nature, however disgusting. Now imagine a few of these cannibals were unexpectedly found murdering children and adults across the country for a meat they prefer and in ways these people still find both moral and ethical. Would a multiculturalistic society still respect and live with this culture? In accordance to the principle in which this society stands it would--ironic isn't it... A young Basongo chief came to our Commandant while at dinner in his tent and asked for the loan of his knife, which, without thinking, the Commandant gave him. He immediately disappeared behind the tent and cut the throat of a little slave-girl belonging to him, and was in the act of cooking her when one of our soldiers saw him. This cannibal was immediately put in irons, but almost immediately after his liberation he was brought in by some of our soldiers who said he was eating children in and about our cantonment. He had a bag slung round his neck which, on examining it, we found contained an arm and leg of a young child. ‘You eat fowls and goats, and we eat men; why not? What is the difference?’ The son of Matabwiki, chief of Liboko, when asked whether he ever ate human flesh, said: ‘Ah! I wish that I could eat everybody on earth!’ Happily his stomach and arm were not equal to the carrying out of his fiendish will. Source: HERE BE CANNIBALS Innumerable acts of cannibalism have been reported from time to time by both Belgians and French An integrated society however, would not let this murderous rampage of "zombies" loose. It would find the very core of their motive and somehow reshape their views, so that they may live in a more civilized society with the rest of us. They would also live in a society where their principles are not as controvisial as a multicultural society is as I have pointed out. Edited July 19, 2004 by Blue-Scorpion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted July 30, 2004 #17 Share Posted July 30, 2004 Ok this debate seems to be dead in the water, plus StillCrazy is no longer able to participate. Under the circumstances i think it's only fair that what has been said so far be judged rather than simply having one team win by default. Since this is a 2v2, a mark will be assigned to each team, rather than to each individual. Over to the judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reese2 Posted August 2, 2004 #18 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Debator: Falco Rex & Blue Scorpion Relavancy:8 Countering:8 Style:8 Persuasiveness:7 Total: 31 Debator: Naudia & StillCrazy Relavancy:7 Countering:7 Style:6 Persuasiveness:6 Total: 26 Here are the scores everyone!! I really would have lliked to see this one play out, but things happen.... Good job to all....!!! Reese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naudia Posted August 2, 2004 #19 Share Posted August 2, 2004 I was and still am willing to continue this debate without stillcrazy's presence. 1v2 is fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted August 2, 2004 #20 Share Posted August 2, 2004 Thanks Naudia, but i think since the judges have now started to rate the debate there would be little point in continuing, plus there has been an almost two week delay since the last post, when we usually only allow little over a week. Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted August 9, 2004 #21 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Debator: Falco Rex & Blue Scorpion Relavancy:9 Countering:8 Style:7 Persuasiveness:8 Total: 32 Debator: Naudia & StillCrazy Relavancy:7 Countering:6 Style:7 Persuasiveness:5 Total: 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted August 11, 2004 #22 Share Posted August 11, 2004 Debators/ Falco Rex & Blue Scorpion Relavancy:8 Countering:8 Style:7 Persuasiveness:7 Total: 30 Debators/ Naudia & StillCrazy Relavancy:8 Countering:7 Style:7 Persuasiveness:6 Total: 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnSide Posted August 12, 2004 #23 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Team Falco Rex and Blue Scorpion wins with a score of a very tasty 31! Team Naudia and StillCrazy score a still very edible 26. Thanks to both teams for taking part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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