World opinion of US rises under Obama, BBC

[Astute One]

Yes, I did know all of those things. I also know that he ignored conflicting advice on WMDs, invaded Iraq with no real clue what to do next and without a UN mandate, refused to sign the Kyoto Protoco, I could go on.

Point is, people outside of America aren't interested in your economic growth and unemployment. They're interested in the decisions you make that effect the rest of the world. And George Bush made a balls up of all of them, hence the disdain.

Sorry but WMD were found in Iraq. The last batch was recently shipped to canada for use in nuclear fuel. You were not allowed to know for national security reasons. Our President Bush though our security was more important than his reputation. Obama thinks the peoples perception of him is more important than security.

[AROCES]

Just parts of the world that have been blessed with free speech.

Nope, you are a fool if you think you are simply blessed with free speech.

Many lives have been given and sacrified for the freedom you enjoy now, it was not a simple blessing as you thought.

[Sthenno]

FIRST, the UN itself has been warning the world about Saddams WMD years before Bush even decided to run for office. The UN weapns inspectors been circling aroung IRAQ for the past 10 years, what the heck were they doing there?????????.

Second, Bush plan is to withdraw when an Iraqi goverment is formed that will not be hostile to its neighbor and the western world. Under Obama that task is about to be completed.

Third, UN mandate? You want us to wait for the UN while Saddam is fattening the head of UN itself KOFI?

As for the KYOTO, you europeans try it first and we will follow once your experiment turns out to be right?

I'm really not going to get into a debate about the war in Iraq with you, but suffice to say there was strong public opposition. More people protested against the war then have protested for anything else in modern history. So it's hardly surprising they're not too keen on the president who started it.

[AROCES]

I'm really not going to get into a debate about the war in Iraq with you, but suffice to say there was strong public opposition. More people protested against the war then have protested for anything else in modern history. So it's hardly surprising they're not too keen on the president who started it.

Do you even know that the United states Congress gave the FINAL approval for the invasion of Iraq?

And dont buy into the left claim they been deceived, it is every member of congress responsibility to assess and verify all documentations presented to them before they vote to put our soldiers into harms way.

You folks protested on what you heard on TV, without all the facts.

Edited April 22, 2010 by AROCES

[Sthenno]

Do you even know that the United states Congress gave the FINAL approval for the invasion of Iraq?

And dont buy into the left claim they been deceived, it is every member of congress responsibility to assess and verify all documentations presented to them before they vote to put our soldiers into harms way.

You folks protested on what you heard on TV, without all the facts.

Whether or not Congress approved the invasion has got sod all to with it.

The fact is, the war faced strong opposition and as such George Bush isn't a popular figure here.

[Astute One]

Do you even know that the United states Congress gave the FINAL approval for the invasion of Iraq?

And dont buy into the left claim they been deceived, it is every member of congress responsibility to assess and verify all documentations presented to them before they vote to put our soldiers into harms way.

You folks protested on what you heard on TV, without all the facts.

Right on.

[Astute One]

Whether or not Congress approved the invasion has got sod all to with it.

The fact is, the war faced strong opposition and as such George Bush isn't a popular figure here.

No opposition here. He is popular with everyone I know. I know one person that likes BO in my circle and she's the only sane person in her insane world. kookoo.

I was walking through the grocery store the other day and every conversation I over heard was about BO and his failures. I can't help but chuckle. Now I wonder why this is? I know why. Because I live in Texas in a city with a liberal lesbian mayor. But wait, this is a contradiction. How can I live in a city with a liberal lesbian mayor and see what I see? Well, I live in the suburbs, not the inner city with all the Katrina misfits. Once I get out of the inner city, the land turns red with elephants everywhere, and guess what, they have lots of guns. I love it. Don't mess with Texas.

[Sthenno]

No opposition here. He is popular with everyone I know. I know one person that likes BO in my circle and she's the only sane person in her insane world. kookoo.

I was walking through the grocery store the other day and every conversation I over heard was about BO and his failures. I can't help but chuckle. Now I wonder why this is? I know why. Because I live in Texas in a city with a liberal lesbian mayor. But wait, this is a contradiction. How can I live in a city with a liberal lesbian mayor and see what I see? Well, I live in the suburbs, not the inner city with all the Katrina misfits. Once I get out of the inner city, the land turns red with elephants everywhere, and guess what, they have lots of guns. I love it. Don't mess with Texas.

Great. But the thread is about the world's opinion of the US going up under Obama, which it is. I'm sure there are lots of Bush-lovers in the US - he did get voted in after all - but I was just trying to explain that the rest of the world doesn't share that opinion, which is why opinion of the US has gone up since Obama took over.

[MichaelW]

Nope, you are a fool if you think you are simply blessed with free speech.

Many lives have been given and sacrified for the freedom you enjoy now, it was not a simple blessing as you thought.

I know this to be true. However, openly saying someone who doesn't like way the United States conducts itself on the world stage is a terrorist etc. is downright ignorant. It isn't about whether you have free speech or not. It matter on how you use it.

[Cradle of Fish]

/Quirks an eyebrow./ Unless you're not quoting the Prince, I believe you got your paraphrase wrong. He said it was better to be feared than loved because you can control fear, but not love. It makes sense too, because to be loved you either have to get lucky enough for people to realize the bitter medicine you're giving them will help, or you have to be an appeaser which spells trouble.

Oops, you're right. If you have to choose between being feared and being loved, being feared is better, but you must avoid being hated.* That's what I was trying to say.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

We being the majority of UK citizens, from what I can gather. And not just the 'socialists and liberals' either; the right-wing press regularly made fun of him and ran negative stories.

Unfortunately, "right-wing" in Britain is more like "leftists who say they can do better than the other leftists." I'm sure the socialized-medicine-loving leader of the "Conservative" Party, Cameron, is a die-hard right-winger.

[Sthenno]

Unfortunately, "right-wing" in Britain is more like "leftists who say they can do better than the other leftists." I'm sure the socialized-medicine-loving leader of the "Conservative" Party, Cameron, is a die-hard right-winger.

Well obviously not, but I was talking about the press.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

What is the right-wing press in Britain? The Telegraph? Daily Mail? They don't strike me as right-wing. And the latter will report any story they think will get the newspaper some attention.

[Sthenno]

What is the right-wing press in Britain? The Telegraph? Daily Mail? They don't strike me as right-wing. And the latter will report any story they think will get the newspaper some attention.

For the sake of this conversation, yes. I was merely trying to illustrate that it wasn't only 'liberals' overseas who weren't keen on George Bush. The Mail may change its allegiances regularly, but it's certainly not liberal by any stretch of the imagination.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

It's a tabloid newspaper. They pretty much have no politics. They rely on controversy.

And many people, many right-wingers, made fun of Bush. There's nothing wrong with that. However, when the Left does it, it's not for laughs; it's to increase hatred of Bush. It's not humor.

[Sthenno]

It's a tabloid newspaper. They pretty much have no politics. They rely on controversy.

And many people, many right-wingers, made fun of Bush. There's nothing wrong with that. However, when the Left does it, it's not for laughs; it's to increase hatred of Bush. It's not humor.

That's a pretty broad statement, and one that you can never validate. 'The left' is not one block of people all acting in exactly the same way, to say they have one shared intention is ridiculous.

But there you have it from the horse's mouth anyway... political affiliation didn't make much difference when it came to mocking Bush. But there certainly seems to be more respect for Obama.

[WoIverine]

but you must avoid being hated.

Then you all have failed! *sinister laugh*

[Pseudo Intellectual]

That's a pretty broad statement, and one that you can never validate. 'The left' is not one block of people all acting in exactly the same way, to say they have one shared intention is ridiculous.

I didn't say “every leftist person in the world.”

Why did Letterman, Stewart and others do their best to mock Bush? Certainly not for humor, as most of their "jokes" were outright personal attacks. They hate Bush, and want people to hate him too, by painting him as an idiot.

But there certainly seems to be more respect for Obama.

Uh, not really. The other side loves it when your guy does nothing and lets them win or gain an advantage over you. They don't respect the guy.

Under Bush, America was disliked by some people, but feared and/or respected by every one. Under Obama, America is "just another country", neither feared nor respected, willing to put international opinion ahead of its own interests.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Pseudo Intellectual

[Sthenno]

Why did Letterman, Stewart and others do their best to mock Bush? Certainly not for humor, as most of their "jokes" were outright personal attacks. They hate Bush, and want people to hate him too, by painting him as an idiot.

I've got no idea, I've never seen these people. I'm talking about perceptions of Bush in the UK

Uh, not really. The other side loves it when your guy does nothing and lets them win or gain an advantage over you. They don't respect the guy.

Under Bush, America was disliked by some people, but feared and/or respected by every one. Under Obama, America is "just another country", neither feared nor respected, willing to put international opinion ahead of its own interests.

Really? That's a very different take to the impression I got. And not just in the UK, on my travels across Europe as well. The attitude I met was pretty much Universal: Bush is an idiot who's embarassing himself and his country. Whereas, in contrast, people across the world were cheering for Obama. If you genuinely believe that the international perception of Bush was better than the international perception of Obama then you need a serious reality check.

[AROCES]

I've got no idea, I've never seen these people. I'm talking about perceptions of Bush in the UK

Really? That's a very different take to the impression I got. And not just in the UK, on my travels across Europe as well. The attitude I met was pretty much Universal: Bush is an idiot who's embarassing himself and his country. Whereas, in contrast, people across the world were cheering for Obama. If you genuinely believe that the international perception of Bush was better than the international perception of Obama then you need a serious reality check.

That is merely the result of the left machine here. You see when the left here are not in power and their ideologies are unpopular or rejected they go for the foreign opinion for they know those outside the country does not know much.

They would say, the world opinion agree with us so the rest of America is wrong. And that world opinion they are talking about are the loud mouth Liberals and socialist like them.

[J.B.]

I've got no idea, I've never seen these people. I'm talking about perceptions of Bush in the UK

Really? That's a very different take to the impression I got. And not just in the UK, on my travels across Europe as well. The attitude I met was pretty much Universal: Bush is an idiot who's embarassing himself and his country. Whereas, in contrast, people across the world were cheering for Obama. If you genuinely believe that the international perception of Bush was better than the international perception of Obama then you need a serious reality check.

He wasn't talking about people's perception of Bush in this instance. At least, I hope not, cause he shot himself in the foot there. He was talking about your perception of the rest of us, under Bush, and what we were willing to do to follow him. Presidents are far from everything, and under Bush, you guys got the image of an idiot. We got the image alternately of a stern hand saying "You gotta lose some rights for now for safety" or "He's a ruthless dictator quickly turning America into a Fascist state." Depending on your political party and willingness to hear the rationale behind everything.

[Sthenno]

That is merely the result of the left machine here. You see when the left here are not in power and their ideologies are unpopular or rejected they go for the foreign opinion for they know those outside the country does not know much.

They would say, the world opinion agree with us so the rest of America is wrong. And that world opinion they are talking about are the loud mouth Liberals and socialist like them.

That doesn't make any sense.

The American left garners popularity from outside America, then comes back and tells them they're wrong?

I don't think that's quite how it works - America did still vote Obama in.

There's no great conspiracy here. It's simple - people in Europe did not like Bush. He's aggressively patriotic, unnecessarily religious, right wing and conservative. None of those things go down particularly well in Europe, where people are fairly liberal. He also started a war which many people were opposed to, and just generally acted as if America was capital of the world. People got annoyed. Then, along came Obama. While not perfect, he had none of Bush's offputting qualities and seemed relatively liberal. We liked his policies, and he seemed a lot less, well, trigger happy than Mr Bush. In conclusion, liberals are happier with a liberal-leaning president than they were with a conservative one. No surprises there.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Sthenno

[Sthenno]

He wasn't talking about people's perception of Bush in this instance. At least, I hope not, cause he shot himself in the foot there. He was talking about your perception of the rest of us, under Bush, and what we were willing to do to follow him. Presidents are far from everything, and under Bush, you guys got the image of an idiot. We got the image alternately of a stern hand saying "You gotta lose some rights for now for safety" or "He's a ruthless dictator quickly turning America into a Fascist state." Depending on your political party and willingness to hear the rationale behind everything.

Ah right, I see. Thanks!

[AROCES]

That doesn't make any sense.

The American left garners popularity from outside America, then comes back and tells them they're wrong?

I don't think that's quite how it works - America did still vote Obama in.

There's no great conspiracy here. It's simple - people in Europe did not like Bush. He's aggressively patriotic, unnecessarily religious, right wing and conservative. None of those things go down particularly well in Europe, where people are fairly liberal. He also started a war which many people were opposed to, and just generally acted as if America was capital of the world. People got annoyed. Then, along came Obama. While not perfect, he had none of Bush's offputting qualities and seemed relatively liberal. We liked his policies, and he seemed a lot less, well, trigger happy than Mr Bush. In conclusion, liberals are happier with a liberal-leaning president than they were with a conservative one. No surprises there.

are more liberal minded. They like Obama, because he also seems liberal minded. They did not like Bush, because he was conservative.

Alright, that is an honest answer.

Except that he did not start a war by himself, the American people supported the military action in Iraq until they saw it was not really a walk in the park.

[Astute One]

Great. But the thread is about the world's opinion of the US going up under Obama, which it is. I'm sure there are lots of Bush-lovers in the US - he did get voted in after all - but I was just trying to explain that the rest of the world doesn't share that opinion, which is why opinion of the US has gone up since Obama took over.

Opinions change with time as knowledge and awareness of truth emerges. Most in the world still think there were no WMDs in Iraq, and they blame Bush for invading on the basis for revenge. The world was basing their opinion on Bush on an illusion as demonstrated by all the nuclear material transported from Iraq to other countries to be used for fuel. However, the world continues to over look the facts and pass judgement based on their ignorance.

Most likely, a similar thing is happening with Obama now with the rest of the world. BO is held in high regard because of a narrow point of view that will be demonstrated in the future as an illusion. He looks good, he talks a game, but look at the state of the country and watch what he does, not what he says. He's a good salesman. That is all.

BO is a demolition man and he is selling his demolition as hope and change. Many salesman tell untruths to sell their product. They just want their commission so they can move on to the next deal and next commission. This is what BO is doing. He isn't concerned much about if the product he is selling is a good product. This is obvious by the fact that he attempted to push the HC plan through without reading the bill. He doesn't care what is in it. He is only concerned about getting credit for the sale. Watch what he does and ignore his mouth and his swagger and you too may see an excellent snake oil salesman.

A good leader puts his country or company first not his competition. Of course the rest of the world likes him. He is putting the rest of the world before his own country as if his loyalties lie with other countries and not his own. There is a nasty word for this and it begins with a T. Keep watching as opinions change with awareness.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Astute One