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Perdition

Arizona Governor signs Immigration Bill

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Poopie

I'm enjoying the political activism pertaining to this subject... I'm glad to see minorities taking an active role in protecting their rights as citizens... As stated before, if the government (state or fed) infringe upon our constitution, there will be hell to pay...

Fox news is trying to disassociate these Americans from those that are involved in the Tea Party Movement, and quite honestly they are the same animal in a sense... Hopefully those that are wise and truly back the constitution take the side of those protesting this law.

This whole thing is a mess though... The FED shouldn't have let it come to this... I don't blame AZ, they're desperate due to conditions existing south of them... There comes a point in time that someone that begs for help will eventually help themselves... Not the best course of action, but action nonetheless...

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Fluffybunny

That's funny, how come you are NOT ranting about the rights you lost when you were told to carry papers for proof of auto insurance. Only those who have autos are targeted with this one just like a group of people called immigrants are targeted to by being required to carry their proof of citizenship.

NO DIFFERENCE.

Actually big difference. You are not required to own or drive a vehicle. That is a privilege, not a right. By owning a vehicle, you agree to abide by the laws and requirements pertaining to vehicles.

Just walking down the street minding your own business, doing nothing wrong...then being stopped by the police for the way you look, requiring "papers"...well that is not the same as owning a vehicle.

I never supported a national mandatory ID for the same reason. It infringes on the rights of law abiding citizens, and butts right up against search and seizure issues. The government needs to mind its own business when it comes to its citizens. Anyone who wants a law on the books that allows police to stop you for next to no reason(the current bill is comical in its requirements) and to bother you...well, you are just looking to set and ugly precedence, and step closer to a police state.

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acidhead

Nobody would care about the illegals if the private federal reserve hadn't devalued the american dollar for the past 100 yrs.

The root of the problem lies within the accounting boooks at the Fed.

Audit the Fed, expose it, arrest those responsible and close it for good.

Return the money supply and printing press to the american people.

And return fully to the free market capitalism system.

And most important - end tariffs and free trade restrictions that have crippled america and the rest of the western world.

Allow everybody to engage in a global free market approach to competitive markets from all over the planet.

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Solipsi Rai

It's a large scale hysteria in the immigrant population and Hispanic community alike, on the INS may round up a certain race of people. Historically, this has happened before...in the infamous mass deportation programs in the 1930s known as the "Great Repatriation" when 500,000 to a million Mexicans were forced back home on railroad cars headed to Mexico; and the 1950s INS program "Operation wetback" when a similar nunber of 1 to 2 million Mexicans rounded up and given plane tickets to return home. Often a Mexican-American or a child of naturalized US citizens had been thrown in with "Mexican" looking and Spanish-speaking individuals. There was the Zoot Suit riots of the summer of 1943 when US sailors stationed in downtown L.A. attacked thousands of Mexican-American civilians for basically racial reasons, and what gives here is the US wasn't at war with Mexico unlike with Germany & Japan.

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ninjadude

I dont think you get the point here. Cops are not going to go out and profile every person they meet. Have you been to Arizona?

Yes in ARIZONA they CAN do that now with this law. In fact, the law has punitive measures if they DON'T profile everyone.

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ninjadude

No, you are stretching it. That's no reason for arrest. It's probable cause to ask immigration questions. It works for me.

No I'm not. The new law in AZ means they do NOT have to have probable cause.

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ninjadude

Reason to suspect they're in the United States Illegally is probable cause.

Since there is no way visually to determine if they are here illegally without using race, they will use it and are forced to do so by the law.

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J.B.

Since there is no way visually to determine if they are here illegally without using race, they will use it and are forced to do so by the law.

ID card in the wallet. Wallet in the pocket. Done. One simple thing, don't forget it. Just like your house keys. Finito. If a cop wants to push past that after being shown legal ID, s/he needs his/her badge pulled.

It's rare I go without mine, and I usually do that when I'm with people who can legally vouch for my ID anyway. I think it's stupid anyone does differently.

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ninjadude

ID card in the wallet.

law does not require it.

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J.B.

law does not require it.

Common sense does. Now that skin color really doesn't mean what it used to, thank God and the progressives, ya need something to prove who/what you are, not to mention to Identify yourself.

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Fluffybunny

Common sense does. Now that skin color really doesn't mean what it used to, thank God and the progressives, ya need something to prove who/what you are, not to mention to Identify yourself.

So you are ok with being randomly pulled over/stopped/detained as often as the police feel like it, for no reason whatsoever?

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J.B.

Randomly pulled over/stopped. . . it'd get annoying but I could deal. If you follow my post before, you'll have seen why detained shouldn't even be an issue here. And if it becomes one, someone needs to go put a fire under the police recruiters and find out why they're hiring so many people who get off on illegally and uselessly detaining people.

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cerberusxp

This new law allows police to question anyone they think is an illegal immigrant, and if they are unable to provide evidence they can be arrested and be charged a fine up to 500 dollars. Basically anyone who looks Hispanic can be question by authorities. Laws before did not require any officer to ask for proof of residency.

Only AFTER being stopped for something else. Quit regurgitating what you hear from people who have an agenda to subjugate you me and everyone.

Edited by cerberusxp

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cerberusxp

So you are ok with being randomly pulled over/stopped/detained as often as the police feel like it, for no reason whatsoever?

Read the bill Fluffy. It only reinforces FEDERAL LAW. It specifically says if one is stopped for any normal type of stop, then if the officer suspects them of being illegal. In other words they are NOT going to just randomly stop for that purpose.

Lets see here going into Mexico. OH what you have to have papers? But why? We don't need no stinking papers. I tell you what Mexican immigration laws are WAY more strict than ours. Over there any citizen can detain an illegal and their constitution allows execution of illegals with NO DUE PROCESS.

Edited by cerberusxp

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J.B.

Read the bill Fluffy. It only reinforces FEDERAL LAW. It specifically says if one is stopped for any normal type of stop, then if the officer suspects them of being illegal. In other words they are NOT going to just randomly stop for that purpose.

He was replying to me, and my assertion that since color/sex don't mean what they used to, we need something new to tell who/what a person is, which is in defense of everyone carrying an ID card. We already have that idea, State ID and Driver's Liscense. Turtle was saying "Not required by law" as a defense for not carrying one at all times, but I'm still irked that this kind of idea would require law to enforce it in the first place. With the illegal problem being what it is in Arizona and the border states, I would expect them to either make it law or for every legal American to want to carry one with them, not like I'm saying to carry a briefcase full of papers or something, it's one little card verifying you're a citizen as recognized by the DMV. I just went through the process of getting an official state ID card today, so I know it requires proof of citizenship to get one.

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Astute One

Since there is no way visually to determine if they are here illegally without using race, they will use it and are forced to do so by the law.

*SNIP*

*Do not use crude remarks, post like a civil adult*

Edited by Lilly

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Fluffybunny

Read the bill Fluffy. It only reinforces FEDERAL LAW. It specifically says if one is stopped for any normal type of stop, then if the officer suspects them of being illegal. In other words they are NOT going to just randomly stop for that purpose.

I have read the bill. Don't tell me I haven't.

From the bill itself:

Authorizes a peace officer to arrest a person without a warrant if the officer has probable cause to believe that the person has committed any public offense that makes the person removable from the U.S.

"Probable cause".

The bill doesn't even bother to further identify what probable cause will be in a case regarding citizenship. Probable cause for drunk driving? pretty straightforward...swerving, driving too slow/fast, missing stop signs...same can be said for drug enforcement issues, probable cause is a definable issue.

Probable cause for citizenship? Not so clear. "You look Mexican?" having spent a lot of time in Arizona, that is a pointless endevour as the percentage of legal Mexican citizens is high.

It is a poorly worded, poorly defined bill that ends up requiring too much hassle from the legal citizens of the state.

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Astute One

I have read the bill. Don't tell me I haven't.

From the bill itself:

"Probable cause".

The bill doesn't even bother to further identify what probable cause will be in a case regarding citizenship. Probable cause for drunk driving? pretty straightforward...swerving, driving too slow/fast, missing stop signs...same can be said for drug enforcement issues, probable cause is a definable issue.

Probable cause for citizenship? Not so clear. "You look Mexican?" having spent a lot of time in Arizona, that is a pointless endevour as the percentage of legal Mexican citizens is high.

It is a poorly worded, poorly defined bill that ends up requiring too much hassle from the legal citizens of the state.

Probable cause is already defined in state law. It makes no sense to redefine.

All those you state are probable cause to stop someone, and when the driver or other says, si por favor, there's probable cause, and the cop follows up with -can I see prove of legal citizenship or legal immigration?

What a wonderful law!!!!!

It's about time somebody grew some.

Too bad it was a woman. How unnatural. The liberals should love it.

Edited by Astute One

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cerberusxp

Obama™ has spoken.... for the Federal government™

He may as well of said "screw State rights - the Federal Government™ knows best for Everybody".

-the guy is a complete fraud.

By the CNN Wire Staff

April 23, 2010 1:54 p.m. EDT

http://www.cnn.com/2...dex.html?hpt=T1

Washington (CNN) -- President Obama on Friday criticized a controversial new immigration bill in Arizona, calling it "misguided."

"Our failure to act responsible at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others. That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as

Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe," the president said at a naturalization ceremony for 24 members of the military.

"In fact, I've instructed members of my administration to closely monitor the situation and examine the civil rights and other implications of this legislation. But if we continue to fail to act at the federal level, we will continue to see misguided efforts opening up around the country."

Obama added, "As a nation, as a people, we can choose a different future, a future that keeps faith with our history, with our heritage, and with the hope that America has always inspired in the hearts of people all over the world."

**********

Dead on without states rights it is the same as you having NO rights. Many of you do not under stand this. If your state and the people in it have no rights against the Federal Government then we are all a subjugated people. We must not let that happen. Watch what John Voight had to say.

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cerberusxp

I have read the bill. Don't tell me I haven't.

From the bill itself:

"Probable cause".

The bill doesn't even bother to further identify what probable cause will be in a case regarding citizenship. Probable cause for drunk driving? pretty straightforward...swerving, driving too slow/fast, missing stop signs...same can be said for drug enforcement issues, probable cause is a definable issue.

Probable cause for citizenship? Not so clear. "You look Mexican?" having spent a lot of time in Arizona, that is a pointless endevour as the percentage of legal Mexican citizens is high.

It is a poorly worded, poorly defined bill that ends up requiring too much hassle from the legal citizens of the state.

OK sorry Fluff. Still I am for something that has been LONG over due. Hell in Washington in Mosses hole where you just moved from they rounded up illegals by the hundreds in the 70's. I know because I cooked in the jail for them in Ephrata.

Edited by cerberusxp

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Astute One

yes, this is a stupid f*ing law. It'll be repealed though, just watch and wait. Police can't just harass people just because they "might" look like an illegal. Most cops are honest, but there's a few who will take this law too far. It never fails to happen. I love Arizona, but some of our leaders here are complete dumb@sses.

I am really offended that the cops ask me for my insurance card. They don't ask the illegal immigrants in Texas. The cops just let the illegals go without a ticket, because the cops are instructed to. Hey, the cops profile me and ask me for my card. "What a stupid f*ing law." I'm being racially profiled. Boohooo.

But I don't mind if it keeps the rest of society in check with auto insurance. I just wish they would check everybody.

Now, if cops make it routine to ask everyone they stop for their immigration status, there is no issue then, right?

Time to see the forest through the trees, don't ya think?

Edited by Astute One

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zenfahr

Yes in ARIZONA they CAN do that now with this law. In fact, the law has punitive measures if they DON'T profile everyone.

Your really ignorant if you dont think the police dont already profile people. Sorry Ninja, Arizona if full of Hispanics... they are not going to profile and question every person they meet. They will need probalble cause, and a few immigration questions are not going to hurt. If you are worried about profiling, come down here an take a look for yourself. Are they going to stop the car that has a mexican flag in the window, but Arizona plates? Chances are they wont, unless that car is breaking the law. Are they going to stop the car with Mexican plates? Sure as hell they are. But that is no different than what they already do at the check stations on the boarder and outside the boarder. It is our right as a country to defend ourselves from being over run by another. We just want these people to follow our rules for entry.

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zenfahr

law does not require it.

Law does require those who are here from another country to have papers or documents.

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zenfahr

So you are ok with being randomly pulled over/stopped/detained as often as the police feel like it, for no reason whatsoever?

Have you ever seen a police check point? They do it ALL the time, illegal immigrant or not. You have to stop, and when and where is random.

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preacherman76

This is the funniest thread Ive ever read here. Suddenly Libs are supporters of the constitution?? You all are the first to want to rip people of thier constitutional rights for the "good" of the herd. Pathetic. Half you Libs cant even stand the thought of someone owning a gun. Now you want to preach constitutional rights??

Anyhow, for maybe the second time I agree with 0bama. This is the result of failure from the federal government. But making 30 million illegals, legal is where I disagree with him. Dismantle through insane fines any company who hires illegals, and the problem gets solved nearly overnight.

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