The Bible Came From Arabia...

[codeman1798]

Hi all,

Just wondered what everyones' thoughts were on Salibi Kamal's theory that the Biblical Holy Land was actually in Arabia, rather than in Israel.

My apologies if this has been addressed befoore, I tried searching, but couldn't find a topic on this.

[Essan]

It would appear that his idea is based largely on the similarity of placenames. It would be like arguing Atlantis was actually in Georgia because that's where Atlanta is. Or, indeed, that I was actually born in Queenland, Australia because I was born near Ipswich ..... There are other linguistic arguments, and some non sequiturs such as there being no volcanoes in Palastine to have destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah (an illogical argument because there is no reason to suppose they were destroyed by volcanes, or even that the story was anything but a folk tale to explain existing geography).

Some background info:

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/salibi.html

http://www.webspawner.com/users/camel/

[Remelic]

Hi all,

Just wondered what everyones' thoughts were on Salibi Kamal's theory that the Biblical Holy Land was actually in Arabia, rather than in Israel.

My apologies if this has been addressed befoore, I tried searching, but couldn't find a topic on this.

The bible compiled so many stories from so many worlds that I don't doubt it at all. It even makes sense to me that this could be true.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Hi all,

Just wondered what everyones' thoughts were on Salibi Kamal's theory that the Biblical Holy Land was actually in Arabia, rather than in Israel.

My apologies if this has been addressed befoore, I tried searching, but couldn't find a topic on this.

Makes some sense, what with the proximity to Babylon. Biblical Israel could have been anywhere, especially as "40 years in teh wilderness" assuming they were on the move certainly puts them further into the Middle East then on the edge of the Mediterranean.

[The Puzzler]

I heard that Yahweh was a volcano God which makes some sense when you think about it and there is a volcano that fits the bill in Arabia. Considering Hephaestus and Ptah are the same sort of volcano creator Gods it should not be seen as too unusual. If the Midianites were there it may be true and also Moses or God, killed the Midianites later didn't they, maybe that was volcanic action.

[The_Spartan]

The Old Testament, The Torah are very much same as the quran.

check them for yourselves...

The entire old terstament..right from genesis..adam and eve, cain and abel, noah and the great flood, abraham & issac, jacob, the slavery in egypt, moses, all that is there in the three holy books.

The bible is a compilation of books, which have already assimilated lots of myths, legends, and history of the middle east through it.

[danielost]

the first five books were written in arabia. so i guess you could say that the bible is from arabia. but remember the isrealites, which includes the jews, were just moving through the area.

[danielost]

The Old Testament, The Torah are very much same as the quran.

check them for yourselves...

The entire old terstament..right from genesis..adam and eve, cain and abel, noah and the great flood, abraham & issac, jacob, the slavery in egypt, moses, all that is there in the three holy books.

The bible is a compilation of books, which have already assimilated lots of myths, legends, and history of the middle east through it.

of course the first 5 booksof the bible, torah(if it is written in books), and the quran(again depending on how many books it takes in this book to include mosess writtings) are based on the same work.

[Salami Swami]

It would make sense if the first books of the old testament were written somewere other than israel. Although, much of the bible talks about and doesnt stop talking about the location, geography, etc. Its pretty accurate on were places were. Like sodom & gomorra, wich were by the dead sea, jerusalem, the cities were the temples stood, etc

[Essan]

Lord of the Rings was written in England. It doesn't mean the events portrayed nor the places described in England

[Harte]

Where is "Arabia?"

Harte

[Salami Swami]

yeah but, if you were writting a message of God and hope and God to a specific group of people (jewish or hebrews)and about a promised land, etc it would make more sense for it to have been written by themselves other than by another person in another country. I mean, not alot of people from another religion (= location) would write a powerful book like that to another group of people in another place.

I mean, one thing is to writte a story, but the bible means alot more than a fairy tale. It means alot more to the people who wrote it, or to whom they wrote it to

[Harte]

yeah but, if you were writting a message of God and hope and God to a specific group of people (jewish or hebrews)and about a promised land, etc it would make more sense for it to have been written by themselves other than by another person in another country. I mean, not alot of people from another religion (= location) would write a powerful book like that to another group of people in another place.

I mean, one thing is to writte a story, but the bible means alot more than a fairy tale. It means alot more to the people who wrote it, or to whom they wrote it to

Israel didn't exist until after the death of Moses.

Since the storyline is that Moses wrote the first five books, how could they possibly have been written in Israel?

The OP is about the claim that Israel itself has been mislocated. This is stupidity itself, as Canaan is well-defined in the Bible as well as in ancient writing from other nations in that ers (most notably, various Mesopotamian nations.)

Harte

[SlimJim22]

Abraham made the covenant with God, he was from Ur. He has two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Jews descend from Isaac and muslims from Ishmael. Isaac has two sons Esau and Jacob. Esau is described as having a mass of red hair, he is the eldest but Jacob steals his birthright from him. Jacob wrestles an angel (kinky) and falls asleep on a stone and sees the ladder to heaven. It is only after this event that he receives the name Israel. This all happened before Moses, not sure about Joseph though.

What does it mean? The hebrews descending from Isaac have had a rough ride, being slaves, captives, exiles but the OT was not written down until the captivity around 700bce. I don't agree with the OP but it is certainly not as straight forward as it seems imo.

[Harte]

What does it mean? The hebrews descending from Isaac have had a rough ride, being slaves, captives, exiles but the OT was not written down until the captivity around 700bce. I don't agree with the OP but it is certainly not as straight forward as it seems imo.

Jim,

Again, the thread is concerned with the silly idea that what we today call Israel is not in the right place. That is, it is not where the Biblical Israel was.

Of course, boundaries likely differ, but there is no doubt (and can be no doubt) that the Biblical Israel was where today's Israel is located.

But concerning where the Bible was written, why, you have a point there and it's the same point Essan made (nice to see you again Essan.) The OT, Torah, whatever etc. may not have been written in Israel. I'll even go as far as to say that the Bible in your home wasn't even published in Israel. Does this matter?

Harte

[Salami Swami]

Israel didn't exist until after the death of Moses.

Since the storyline is that Moses wrote the first five books, how could they possibly have been written in Israel?

The OP is about the claim that Israel itself has been mislocated. This is stupidity itself, as Canaan is well-defined in the Bible as well as in ancient writing from other nations in that ers (most notably, various Mesopotamian nations.)

Harte

I was responding to essans post.

I agreed to the moses books being written out of israel, the rest of the book I mean, was written in israel, many of them having other backrounds like the story of noah. but must of the book was written in israel.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Bliszter

[+DieChecker]

The OP is about the claim that Israel itself has been mislocated. This is stupidity itself, as Canaan is well-defined in the Bible as well as in ancient writing from other nations in that ers (most notably, various Mesopotamian nations.)

Agreed.

And then there is the fact that The Bible was not called The Bible till around 200 AD.

The Online Etymology Dictionary states, "The Christian scripture was referred to in Greek as Ta Biblia as early as c.223."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

[danielost]

Lord of the Rings was written in England. It doesn't mean the events portrayed nor the places described in England

perhaps but it was based off of ww2.

[Qoais]

It seems to me that Israel is in Saudi Arabia. It may be it's own country now, but I bet back then it was part and parcel of the whole piece.

[The Puzzler]

It seems to me that Israel is in Saudi Arabia. It may be it's own country now, but I bet back then it was part and parcel of the whole piece.

Yes, that map really shows it. The Arabian peninsular looks like one piece that goes up into Syria and the Euphrates is the divider.

[Cybele]

The area that encompasses modern day Israel was subject to the rule of various empires throughout ancient history. At the time of Jesus, it would have been under the control of the Roman Empire.

http://www.roman-empire.net/maps/empire/extent/augustus.html

Before that time, Assyrians, Babylonians, Macedonians and Persians ruled the land.

http://www.science.co.il/Maps-Near-East-Empires.asp

http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/Atlas/default.htm

As you can clearly see from these maps, modern day Arabia was not part of these empires. I find it hard to believe, given all the specific references to ruling powers and place names, that anyone could believe that the Bible described locations outside of ancient Canaan.

[The_Spartan]

I had seen the PBS special "Bible's Buried secrets".

In it, tracing the details given in the Bible, archaeologists have indeed excavated and identified the "Palace of David", the "6 chambered gates of Hazor, Medigo & Gezer"and many more.

have a look at the interactive flash presentation on the Archaeological Evidence at

Archaeoligical Evidence

There is no confusion - The so called "Holy Land" is in Jerusalem (only that its not holy any more)

[+DieChecker]

The area that encompasses modern day Israel was subject to the rule of various empires throughout ancient history. At the time of Jesus, it would have been under the control of the Roman Empire.

I always wondered why the Romans did not conquer the Arabian Penisula. My guess would be it was not worth the effort. Probably they got enough tribute that to invade would have been cost prohibitive.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I was responding to essans post.

I agreed to the moses books being written out of israel, the rest of the book I mean, was written in israel, many of them having other backrounds like the story of noah. but must of the book was written in israel.

The way I see it, you only write stuff like that down when the community isn't centralised or you need to secrete knowledge about the place while someone is trying to destroy it.

So while Isreal existed, there is no need for a written collection of the legends and laws of your people because it was a "living law", in the Temple and in the minds of a people who lived close enough together so doctrine was unified because they were all hearing it from the same source.

But after the various Diasporas, there was a need to ensure everyone was reading off the same page as it were. They knew that to ensure the Law for a people living across multiple lands was the same law, that they all knew the legends and tales of God's fidelity and so forth. They felt the pressure of extinction of ideals, so worked to create something that would outlast them, the written word.

[Papagiorgio]

perhaps but it was based off of ww2.

Tolkien denied any connection between the Lord of the Rings and the events of WWII. His experiences as a soldier in WWI probably inspired his depictions of war though.

@ Essan: Many of the places in Tolkien's novels were based on places in his native homeland. So in a way the places described in LOTR are England.