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The Strange Tale of "Dr. 58"


IronGhost

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I welcome Sakari’s comments, and I thank him for frequently saying he is enjoying the “story” of Dr. 58’s universe, although this is not a story at all, but a series of reports as transcribed from an Ouija board, not written by your truly.

I have not the slightest clue what the board will spell next, and I am hanging on what will happen next just as much as other readers here are.

Many of Sakari’s points which he calls “common sense” don’t seem very common to me, just in my opinion.

For example, I said that the planchette is moving very fast for these session, that the letters are “pouring off the board” and that I am using a tape recorder to help record the sessions (although not always, Darcy has been recording most of them with pen and pad.)

Sakari leapt ahead and made the erroneous assumption that the planchette must be moving so fast I could not read them in real time. I never said that. I just said these sessions are unusually fast by Ouija board standards.

I suppose if I would have said: “Jeepers, my dog ran so fast today, I couldn’t believe it!” Sakari would have jumped ahead and assumed that I meant to say, “Jeepers my dog ran so fast, he can run faster than my car!”

No, I would mean that my dog ran very fast -- for a dog -- not very fast compared to my car.

That’s obviously what I meant when I said the planchette moved very fast. Sakari was making an erroneous assumption.

Sakari also expressed total surprise when someone else came here and seemed to think he has some marvelous revelation that I was from Minnesota and that I am well known here as a “humorist.”

Sakari said: “Say, there something here” -- the implication by the other poster and Sakari is that I was hiding the fact that I was from Minnesota, when I have been mentioning I am from Minnesota from the beginning, and have done so many dozens of times in all my posts and writing here at UM, and have never hid the fact.

Thus, Sakari does not seem to be reading the material, and is at best skimming it.

Incidentally, the person who offered to everyone here that I am known as a “Minnesota humorist” is in error.

I am known in Minnesota, but as a journalist of mostly hard news, and for my once popular series of syndicated columns called “Minnesota Mysteries” some of which were humorous, but mostly concerned the paranormal.

Sakari has also made the wonderfully ridiculous claim that “I don’t want a million dollars” because I will not subject myself to testing by his suggested paranormal investigation group.

This group has never awarded a million dollars to anyone, and will never award to million dollars to anyone because they simply don’t have the competence to test any paranormal claim sufficiently to prove or disprove anything -- and at any rate, there is no way to “prove” by currently accepted rational, empirical and reductionist methods whether Ouija board communication is “true” or not “true.”

This group would most likely claim the ideometer effect without themselves being able to prove there is an ideometer effect because this group cannot “prove” or “disprove” the existence or nonexistence of either the subconscious mind or the unconscious mind, which the ideometer theory depends on.

I have the feeling that if I was able to wrestle a real werewolf to the ground, give it a rabies shot, collar it and lead by chain into this paranormal investigation team’s headquarters, they would still not give me a million dollars because they would wait till the werewolf turned back into a normal human, and then claim that it never was a werewolf in the first place.

Sakari further calls my transcripts into question because I won’t release recording of my session, nor offer video tapes of my sessions.

The reason for this is unbelievably obvious to anyone with true “common sense.” Audio and video would only increase the controversy, not decrease it. For example, some would watch the video of my session and promptly exclaim: “He’s just moving it with his hands!” Others would say, “No he’s not!”

Sakari repeatedly brings up the point that I am a professional writer -- again, something which I have always offered freely and openly without a hint of evasion.

Yet Sakari keeps repeating this and seems to be implying that I have made some attempt to hide the fact that I write for a living -- which I never have done.

If I really wanted to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes here, I would have told everyone:

“I’m just an ordinary mechanic. All I do all day is fix radiators and change oil on cars. But these amazing Ouija transcripts are written so well, that an ordinary mechanic like me could never have written them.”

But -- no -- I did not take this deceptive route, nor am I attempting any kind of deception whatsoever.

Finally, Sakari makes another erroneous assumption by thinking that I am lusting after the maximum number of hits on this forum, and thus, that is why I am choosing to post the Dr. 58 sessions in this forum, and the not the “writer’s and artists” forum.

If I was truly lusting after hits as much as Sakari thinks I am, this thread would now have well over 100,000 views, rather than just 36,000. That’s because any idiot -- including me -- could drive tons of traffic to this forum using very basic web site optimization techniques, such as:

* seeding the link to this site in dozens of other paranormal forums and blogs --- which I have not done.

* Promoting this site on my Facebook page -- which I have not done

* By ramping up my various moribund blogs and seeding a link in each of them to this forum -- which I have not done.

* By sending a notice to my thousands of e-mail contacts -- which I have not done.

I did make one mention of this site on one of my blogs, but that only after someone asked me where to find all the transcripts, and because I am too lazy to update these transcripts on that blog.

I like the fact that these transcripts have stimulated controversy and are prompting people to think creatively and critically -- that’s always a good thing -- which is why I bite my tongue most of the time over the sometimes inaccurate and erroneous assumptions some people are offering.

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Thank You for responding to my post diplomatically , and without being harsh :)

I was thinking about this again ( no , I have and will not change my views ).....

Never say never Sakari! Anything is possible.....

Anyone know or remember "Whitley Streiber" ?.....When he wrote and released " Communion" ( was a number 1 seller on NY Times about Alien Abduction) he had released it as a Biography.He swears all of what he wrote ( and is writing still) happened/happens to him.( it was also made into a movie).....

His book , and following ones were never allowed to be called " biography's" when they were sold.They were put out as "fiction".And put on the fiction sections of book stores.I am not sure who makes these decisions , but somewhere , somehow , people are not allowed to put out writings like this as " fact"...That is how I gathered it anyway.( I read that on his site years ago , tried to google it)

This falls into that category , and his is also debatable.Difference is though , he has at least tried to give proof , including lie detector tests , etc.....

I have to post this also , it really says a lot of how I feel about this topic...

About a year ago I decided to browse the local Crown Book store while my wife shopped for clothes next door. I first rifled through the science and nature section looking for something new or interesting. Finding not much for me, I moved over to non-fiction. What I found there horrified me. It still chills me as I write about it now. A big-headed, bug-eyed alien was staring out at me from the cover of a book called Communion: A True Story. It is not a new book. It’s been out for years. It has even been made into a movie. A tale of alien abduction by Whitley Strieber who claims in the book to have been repeatedly kidnapped and probed both physically (in the most unlikely of places) and mentally, then deposited back home to have bad dreams and little memory of what had happened to him. He was a tortured man until a hypnotherapist helped him to remember his ordeal. What makes this book non-fiction and not just another scary story in the science fiction section? Only the claim by the author that it is a true story. That’s about it…

I remember Streiber. I too remember when it came out, and the films he made. It was before the internet, and I was hungry for more info. In the end as his claims got more outlandish I had to conclude he was BS. But it was BS on a grand and impressive scale.

I think what's been happening over the last few decades is the emergence of a new genre of fiction, the Blair Witch style faux documentary. It's a sci fi or fanstasy/horror genre that requires the author not just to create the fiction, but to live it with a high degree of commitment and extremism.

There could be a parrallel with another type of artistic performance - that of the magician. I could argue that in the last, say, few centuries, the skilled slight-of-hand artist could make a career going from village to village performing tricks but claiming them as magic or psychic power. This still happens in India. My link

The more educated/sophistciated sections of society, in the more cosmoplitan cities, with universities etc, aren't as gullible, and debunk and discredit magicians, causing the art to fall out of favour with the times. But still there are gullible people that believe and keep the artists and their fictional act going. A good magician, no matter how fake, is still an awesome thing to see. Very skilled.

Then came mass media. The info and scorn of such fakery spreads. However, eventually the box office wins. people still pay to see a good magician EVEN THOUGH they know it's a fake, and the magician blatantly does everything he can to suggest it IS magic. We all know it's BS.

Similar to UFOs, prior to the internet you had Adamski, Von Daniken, and many more, hoaxing and faking. Then the internet comes along, and people can spread the debunkment. Eventually UFO abductees and so on are treated with hostility and scorn. And even though people know Streiber is fake, they still buy his books. He commits to the artform, the new genre of reality scifi.

I complained to a clerk. She agreed that it shouldn’t be in non-fiction but it was a corporate decision. “We are told where to put the books,” she said.

the imagery here is hilarious! Go get 'em tiger!

I don't know if anything of any great merit can be found at any mainstream bookshop. The only thing i bought at a chain store was Hunt for the Skinwalker at Borders. And I'd really like to know more on that....anyone??

Last March, thirty-eight people in Rancho Santa Fe, California bought themselves new black Nikes, ate some bad applesauce, and shed their containers to meet and enter an alien space craft to be whisked off to the Kingdom of God. An alien spacecraft was, according to Whitley Strieber on a national radio show, tracking the Hale-Bopp Comet. Whitley Strieber, as you know, wrote a true story about alien abduction. It’s in the non-fiction section at Crown Books. He can be trusted.

As appealing as the idea may be, there is no scientific evidence to support the claim that we are being visited by beings from other worlds. Having said that, I invite the reader to visit our list of some of the more popular claims, disciplines, ideas, myths and fantasies that have been presented as facts but have no supporting evidence, or worse, have been shown to be false. Some of the people who make these claims would like nothing better then to part you from some of your money. (Go ahead, call the psychic hot line now!) Some are just silly. Many of their claims have caused real harm to people.

Amen to that post :

source link

People will do and have done some pretty stupid things. I can understand the indignation one experiences when one looks at all the crazy things we're fed in today's world, from many sources. I don't think IG's posting is very dangerous, but I do understand your vigilance.

As for diplomacy, well, I'm not really that diplomatic. (Ask the mods for my deleted postings tally!!) But if someone has the argument or substance to back up a claim, it needs to be met unemotionally and rationally, ie scientifically. And I think quite a few here do have some excellent points.

Whenever I meet a post here, I always ask myself - what would I do if I was in that scenario. I won't get to the point of entertaining its reality till much later. So if a person posts "hey I saw this!" "Here's my photo!" "Has this happened to you? help!" "I was abducted." etc etc etc, I ask myself what i would do, and how would I go about investigating or telling people about it. That's how I started reading IG's posts. "What if I was in the Ouija Board, how would I reat to this info?" there wasn't to much invested in it for me. But now I am thinking about the reality of it. The hows, the if's etc. The only investment emotionally I have in it is intense curiosity.

And it may well kill the cat, but I thank IG for stimulating that part of my brain!

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* Promoting this site on my Facebook page -- which I have not done

Whoops...I ...er....kinda did that. But don't worry I have only got ten friends and they're all b******* and illiterate. :blush:

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Whoops...I ...er....kinda did that. But don't worry I have only got ten friends and they're all b******* and illiterate. :blush:

No -- that's totally fine. I know that others have mentioned this thread on other paranomral sites and on their FB pages as well -- more power to you all, and thank you.

My only point is that a huge part of Sakari's argument that I am a fraud depends on the fact that he thinks I am craving maximum view. If that was the case, I would be doing everything I can to drive traffic here, such posting links on my FB page. I have not done that -- because I don't care that much.

But -- I thank you, Marrangurk, for posting it on your FB page -- I'm honored you find the stuff worthy enough to share it with your friends.

Edited by IronGhost
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ANSWER: HE WAS THE REVERAND FATHER RESTON VROMIN. BUT AFTER HE RETURNED FROM MINNESOTA HE BECAME KNOWN AS OLD CAVE. NOW HE IS A HOMELESS WANDERER AND STREET PREACHER.

I started to google this name, I came across a couple of links:

There is a character named Reston in the movie Elizabeth: The Golden Age ( links to a summary ).

Then I found this wiki link which suggests the Reston character might be based on a priest named Robert Parsons. Not from Minnesota, but he was forced to leave his home country ( homeless? ).

I was thinking also, what would "old cave" translate to in other languages? This might be something to search.

Edited by Voyager10
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Assumptions?....Let me clarify , I think you may have assumed I was implying something completley different than what I typed.

Sakari leapt ahead and made the erroneous assumption that the planchette must be moving so fast I could not read them in real time. I never said that. I just said these sessions are unusually fast by Ouija board standards.

No , did not think you could not read them in real time.( I am not going back and looking for your exact words on any of this)You stated you recorded the sessions because they went very fast , and you listened later to write it down...I never thought the planchette was flying around at light speed ( I do not think there is a planchette involved).I made that statement because it would be extremelly hard to post a recording that matches your transcripts , because it would be time consuming to go back and do that.I also said , if this is the case , the person you are talking to would have to wait until you "listened" and jotted down everything , before you could ask another question...Thus , how could you have a full blown conversation this way?

Sakari also expressed total surprise when someone else came here and seemed to think he has some marvelous revelation that I was from Minnesota and that I am well known here as a “humorist.”

I was never surprised , I new by reading your transcripts.( yes , I read them )...I did take what that person posted and assumed it was true , so that was my bad there...I did not know you were a writer/author until I read his post....I DID know you were from Minnesota , and was not surprised.( Best Friend is a Huge Vikings fan)

Sakari has also made the wonderfully ridiculous claim that “I don’t want a million dollars” because I will not subject myself to testing by his suggested paranormal investigation group.

This group has never awarded a million dollars to anyone, and will never award to million dollars to anyone because they simply don’t have the competence to test any paranormal claim sufficiently to prove or disprove anything -- and at any rate, there is no way to “prove” by currently accepted rational, empirical and reductionist methods whether Ouija board communication is “true” or not “true.”

That is almost what Sylvia Brown said....Why not even attempt it?...What would it hurt?...really?

Sakari further calls my transcripts into question because I won’t release recording of my session, nor offer video tapes of my sessions.

The reason for this is unbelievably obvious to anyone with true “common sense.” Audio and video would only increase the controversy, not decrease it. For example, some would watch the video of my session and promptly exclaim: “He’s just moving it with his hands!” Others would say, “No he’s not!”

Far from it...If you were able to show video and/or audio of a full session ( one you all ready recorded ) , with the transcript , it would help your credability a little bit.I mean , if it were not true , why would you want to go back and read , letter for letter , a transcript into a recorder , and have people in the background with you doing this?

If it were true , you all ready have these recordings , and transcripts , and can very easily upload that information.......Double dare ya :tu:

Sakari repeatedly brings up the point that I am a professional writer -- again, something which I have always offered freely and openly without a hint of evasion.

when did I ever say you were hiding this fact?...My point is , "duh" , he is a writer people!

Yet Sakari keeps repeating this and seems to be implying that I have made some attempt to hide the fact that I write for a living -- which I never have done.

Again , where did I say you hide the fact?

Finally, Sakari makes another erroneous assumption by thinking that I am lusting after the maximum number of hits on this forum, and thus, that is why I am choosing to post the Dr. 58 sessions in this forum, and the not the “writer’s and artists” forum.

No , not really hits , I did type that , I meant "reads"...And yes , I do think this.I think if you had posted it in the writers section , you know you would have had less reads.I am not sure why though.( why you are doing this)

I like the fact that these transcripts have stimulated controversy and are prompting people to think creatively and critically -- that’s always a good thing -- which is why I bite my tongue most of the time over the sometimes inaccurate and erroneous assumptions some people are offering.

I am glad you like "the fact that these transcripts have stimulated controversy and are prompting people to think creatively and critically ".....That just shows me even more why you put it here , and not in the writers section...."Sometimes inaccurate and erroneous assumptions" by Sakari , should be cleared up from this reply.

I am glad you are not getting upset , and do reply with not to much harshness , and I am reading your story , it is pretty cool :tu:

I have another offer...If I new someone in Minnesota , or found someone who would be wiling to witness one of your sessions first hand , would you be willing to do that?

I am just replying what I see about where it is.......Hope you understand.

Edited by Sakari
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Wow, never thought it'd happen. Finally after 27 pages, he responds. Wonder what it was specifically that Saraki said to caused him to board the late train to business here?

Nevertheless, your not wanting to show 1 of your "sessions" because you are trying to avoid the rushing in of so much drama and controversy? Come on. I think you may be the 1 being a bit melodramatic right now. You post continuous "sessions" on here, a few people question it; most ooh and aah. Yet somehow, showing it actually happen would cause so much controversy, you won't want to do it??

Sounds like the reasoning we hear time and time again from charlatans to be honest. Guess it covers you nicely though, I don't understand the reasoning myself...

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Okay I was really into this until the whole "Pepper Ball" bit. WTF? :blink:

Shriek.jpg

I look fwd to the next bit tho. I'm with the non believer crowd but it's a good story nonetheless.

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On page 17 but must now leave for work. Am excited to return afterward! IronGhost, you my friend are a zen master!!

post-102913-127609263842_thumb.jpg

Edited by AberhammerSlammer
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Wow, never thought it'd happen. Finally after 27 pages, he responds.

Here, now, is proof that Jerry Only is not really reading this thread.

(He said he would stop reading earlier on, and apparently has kept his promise).

Jerry Only says he thinks my response would never happen -- see his quote above.

I just did a quick survey -- I have directly responded to questions and criticisms not once, or twice -- but 27 times.

My 27 responses do not include postings of original material or inoccuous comments.

Jerry Only, how can you say you never thought I would respond after 28 pages, when I have made 27 responses?

The only logical conclusion is that you come here every few days, or so, to offer uninformed criticism without reading the original material or my 27 responses so far, 28 including this one. Why?

Still, there's no law against that, I guess. I just don't get how you can say I have not responded to criticism in 28 pages when I very obviously have done so 27 times?

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Sakari has also made the wonderfully ridiculous claim that “I don’t want a million dollars” because I will not subject myself to testing by his suggested paranormal investigation group.

This group has never awarded a million dollars to anyone, and will never award to million dollars to anyone because they simply don’t have the competence to test any paranormal claim sufficiently to prove or disprove anything -- and at any rate, there is no way to “prove” by currently accepted rational, empirical and reductionist methods whether Ouija board communication is “true” or not “true.”

This group would most likely claim the ideometer effect without themselves being able to prove there is an ideometer effect because this group cannot “prove” or “disprove” the existence or nonexistence of either the subconscious mind or the unconscious mind, which the ideometer theory depends on.

I think they could test it w/o the idomotor effect explanation. I think all you would need to do is perform this "communication" blind -folded 2 or 3 times, each time flipping the board at random (right side up/ upside down).

Edited by n1x012
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Here, now, is proof that Jerry Only is not really reading this thread.

(He said he would stop reading earlier on, and apparently has kept his promise).

Jerry Only says he thinks my response would never happen -- see his quote above.

I just did a quick survey -- I have directly responded to questions and criticisms not once, or twice -- but 27 times.

My 27 responses do not include postings of original material or inoccuous comments.

Jerry Only, how can you say you never thought I would respond after 28 pages, when I have made 27 responses?

The only logical conclusion is that you come here every few days, or so, to offer uninformed criticism without reading the original material or my 27 responses so far, 28 including this one. Why?

Still, there's no law against that, I guess. I just don't get how you can say I have not responded to criticism in 28 pages when I very obviously have done so 27 times?

You know exactly what I mean. And the camouflaged jab doesn't hurt me.

You've been ignoring the statements he's been making for quite awhile. Maybe not enough people asking for more finally got you to respond with great detail to Saraki's thoughts.

But I'd like to hear the reasoning behind how you don't want to show us how this goes on video because you feel there will be a great unneeded controversy.

Edited by Jerry Only
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As to the video question, it's a completely pointless discussion because videos prove nothing.

I invite everyone to go here to view the great (and I mean "The Great") Jane Roberts as she channels the entity Seth:

Roberts initially began channeling Seth with an Ouija board, and later claimed she didn't need the board because she learned to simply speak for Seth through her voice and a trance state. Roberts called Seth an "energy essense being" -- and made all kinds of sensational claims, including that Seth had once been the Pope in the 4th Century.

Anyway, I ask all of you, does watching this video of Jane Roberts offer you any proof that her claims were real or not? Here's what will happen:

1. Many will consider her a real an genuine channel of the entity Seth.

2. Many will conclude she is a ridiculous faker.

3. Many will claim she thinks she is being honest but is self-deluded.

4. Many will be undecided.

If I made videos of my Ouija sessions, all four of the same conclusions would be offered.

Edited by IronGhost
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Is nobody else weirded out by the naked fat guy getting a rub down? Or am I the only one?

LOL, who was it a page or two back that was like "damn I really want to play some pepperball"?

Well I guess we know how he gets his kicks now.

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I don't care if this is a ploy to get Iron Ghost's writing career to Stephen King status or not. I want more Dr. 58, I am hooked :D!!

Edited by svenshoegazer
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On page 17 but must now leave for work. Am excited to return afterward! IronGhost, you my friend are a zen master!!

Jeepers, that picture looks exactly like me.

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As to the video question, it's a completely pointless discussion because videos prove nothing.

I invite everyone to go here to view the great (and I mean "The Great") Jane Roberts as she channels the entity Seth:

Roberts initially began channeling Seth with an Ouija board, and later claimed she didn't need the board because she learned to simply speak for Seth through her voice and a trance state. Roberts called Seth an "energy essense being" -- and made all kinds of sensational claims, including that Seth had once been the Pope in the 4th Century.

Anyway, I ask all of you, does watching this video of Jane Roberts offer you any proof that her claims were real or not? Here's what will happen:

1. Many will consider her a real an genuine channel of the entity Seth.

2. Many will conclude she is a ridiculous faker.

3. Many will claim she thinks she is being honest but is self-deluded.

4. Many will be undecided.

If I made videos of my Ouija sessions, all four of the same conclusions would be offered.

At least it will show you are actually getting these transcripts while sitting at a board, as opposed to sitting at a laptop by the beach. And think all will be interested in viewing it; those who don't believe in Ouija channeling, as well as those who do.

Slightly provocative sidenote: Jane Roberts was also an author/poet.

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Question: Dr. 58, before we get started with some other information, can you tell us when your next Pepper Ball match will be played?

ANSWER: WE MEET THE SCORPION FORCE ON THE FESTIVAL OF KEEVE.

Question: Ah ha. They sound tough. Do they have an excellent Trac Man, capable of enduring incredible pain?

ANSWER: WE PLAN TO TEST HIM WELL.

Question: What is this Festival of Keeve?

ANSWER: A GATHERING OF THE PUBLIC BATHS, THE SHARING OF FOOD, MODULATIONS OF STARLIGHT INFUSIONS, AND FIREPHANES.

Question: (Exerting enormous self control to forego asking about what the firephanes are, and possibly get carried down another rabbit hole). Ah, more starlight cultural stuff. This starlight thing and celestial water really informs almost every aspect of your life and culture, does it not?

ANSWER: YES, OF COURSE.

(Note: I will release more on all this starlight stuff later. We conducted a couple of sessions to get to the bottom of this. These were lengthy and sometimes convoluted, and I’m not sure how to best present the original transcript because they are so long and often tedious -- although I know some will want to see them).

However, in short:

In Dr. 58’s America, a complex system of social meaning has developed around the infusion and mixture of starlight with human consciousness, which is somehow optically captured in diamond or crystal or glass objects, which people culturally and spiritually attach themselves to, and give personal and social meaning to.

Most people wear a starlight “jewel” at the base of their throats which resonates their “affiliation” with particular kinds of starlight.

There are 6 bands of starlight spectrum, and these are additionally refined by 6 different magnitudes of star -- but there are also “special quality” celestial lights, such as those derived from specific star clusters, as with the Quetzal Cluster already mentioned.

I’m pretty sure the Quetzal Cluster is that which we call the Pleiades, based on our discussion. Some infuse “celestial water” not with starlight, per se, but that from Messier objects, such as the Andromeda nebula, or the Orion nebula, ect.

So, people who are “projecting” or “displaying” the Quetzal Cluster light, for example, are making a kind of public statement about who they are and what they are about, and every quality of color and magnitude of starlight has instant, deep and nuanced meaning to everyone.

The throat jewel of Dr. 58’s world reminds me a lot of the “Bindi” which are worn on the forehead by Hindi people of India, who also attach a specific array of meaning to these kind of adornments -- although the comparison is far from perfect.

While the Indian Bindi are religious in nature, the Dr. 58 starlight infusions are part hard science, part philosophy, part social engineering, part religious -- it’s actually difficult for me to understand this rather complex psycho-social phenomenon in Dr.58’s world.

Also, unlike the Bindi, starlight infused objects are used to adorn households and “inform” public places of art and various modes of worship.

Still, it’s tempting to think that there is a alternate universe cultural connection or influence of the Hindu “Bindi” practice with Dr. 58’s America -- since this entire nutty world seems to be a crazy blending of all kinds of things we have here -- but mixed up together in a totally different way over there.

It’s pretty mind-numbingly complex … and so back to raw session material).

Question: Dr. 58, what chance do you think the Waspmen of Ker have of defeating the Scorpion Force? Can you give me odds?

ANSWER: I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.

Question: Well, would you say you are evenly matched with the Scorpion Force, or are they a much more powerful team than your Waspmen, or what is the case?

ANSWER: THE SCORPION FORCE PLAY WELL. THEIR TRAC MAN IS STOUT, BUT I BELIEVE WE CAN MAKE HIM SUBMIT.

Question: So you would say you are evenly matched, that either side could win this Pepper Ball game?

ANSWER: YES, POSSIBLY.

(Note: The reason I was pursuing this line of questioning is that my friend Les, who observed the Pepper Ball session, suggested we should start wagering on Pepper Ball if we could. I agreed.

I decided to place my bet on the Waspmen and Les will agree to place his wager on whoever the Waspmen play next. When I learned of their next opponent, the Scorpion Force, I informed Les and he agreed will bet on the Scorpions, especially after I told him that Dr. 8 suggested even odds. I originally wanted to place a wager of 10 C-Chits, but Les is not, well, attuned to manufacturing C-Chits nor sees the practicality, so we decided on something much more earthy. If the Waspmen win, Les has agreed to change the oil in my car. If the Scorpion Force win, I must help Les clean his garage.)

Question: Dr. 58, I urge you and the Waspmen to play well on the Festival of Keeve. I have made a certain wager on the match and I depend on your victory.

ANSWER: DO YOU ATTEMPT TO MEDDLE WITH A HEX?

Question: Nooooo!!!!!! Quite the opposite! I urge you onto victory so I don’t have to perform a task of labor for a friend!! For the millionth time, I do not have the power of Hex! Do you understand?

ANSWER WHAT ABOUT PLAN 9?

Question: Gahhh!!!! How do you know about Plan 9!!??

ANSWER: OTHERS HAVE INFORMED ME OF YOUR POWER TO IMPOSE PLAN 9.

Question: Are you speaking of the being who we have come to call the Man Thing Entity?

ANSWER: IT WAS A BEING OF THE KINGDOM. IT SAID YOU RECOMMENED THAT I VISIT MINNESOTA.

Question: The entity is a liar!!!!!!!! It suggested that I encourage you to visit Minnesota. I said that I would not do so, nor would I interfere with your plans in any way. I don’t trust the Man Thing Entity. I threatened him with Plan 9 to get rid of him. Are you planning to travel to Minnesota?

ANSWER: I WOULD NOT SAY YES OR NO.

Question: Fine! Plan 9 is nothing for you to worry about, I assure you of that. Do you believe me?

ANSWER: I RESERVE JUDGMENT.

(Note: Obviously this was a sticky situation. I did not want to tell Dr. 58 that Plan 9 was just a bunch of nonsense I had concocted it to blow off the Man Thing Entity. For all I knew, the Man Thing Entity is always listening in on all of our conversations. If it found out I was bluffing about Plan 9, well … that would be annoying to say the least).

Question: I assure you that you have nothing to worry about in regards to Plan 9, nor any hexes, and at any rate, I can assure you with 100 percent honesty that Plan 9 is not a method of hex, but something of a quite different nature. So, anyway, Dr. 58, when is the Festival of Keeve?

ANSWER: ON THE NEXT MOON TRIUM.

Question: What is that?

ANSWER: THE THREE DAYS OF THE MOON -- GIBBOUS-FULL-GIBBOUS.

Question: Ah, so the day before the full moon, the day of the full moon, and the day after the full moon?

ANSWER: YES

Question: And how many days it that from now?

ANSWER: IN 9 DAYS.

Question: Great! Well, train well for your upcoming Pepper Ball match against the Scorpion Force, and I wish you a great victory! As I said, I am betting on you. Will many people be observing the match?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: One last thing, I understand that you communicated with a certain Gefraim of the Staff Guild. Did he consult with you on the construction of your own personal staff?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: What are your thoughts on this?

ANSWER: I SEE BENEFIT IN THE IDEA.

Question: Did Gefraim recommend you coat your staff in blood?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: And will you comply?

ANSWER: YES, I THINK SO.

Question: What wood did Gefraim recommend for your staff?

ANSWER: OAK.

Question: Hmmm. He said I should use willow. Anyway, we must sign off for now, Dr. 58. We are tired. Once again, good luck against the Scorpion Force!

ANSWER: OUR TRAC MAN SANDS HIS SKIN DAILY. WE WILL PERFORM WELL.

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IG,

Still very entertaining. Thanks for sharing.

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I think IG is running out of inspiration. The pepper ball thing was just too much... :blink:

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IG , I replied to your statements that I was "assuming"....Have you read that yet?

And my offer?

The link you gave for someone else is not valid to me.I would like to see one of your sessions , with a transcript to match it..As I stated , I know it would take a very long time to sit at a board , and find 3 other people ( one with you on the board , and one to write it down).Than to take your transcript , and have to move the planchette to each letter of each answer...Whoa , what a pain in the butt huh?...On your latest transcript post , I did that with the first response you have there from Dr.58....42 letters , took 1 minute 20 seconds...That did not include asking the question , than having someone write it down , I moved it pretty fast , may have been to fast for someone whom is following it to write down.I see myself , this would be very tedious work , if you had to do it that way to show what you are saying may be true.

Something that is troublesome to me....Lets say you asked :

"Question: What is that?

ANSWER: THE THREE DAYS OF THE MOON -- GIBBOUS-FULL-GIBBOUS."

You said yourself , at least on one post , you record the sessions and go over them later , because the words come very fast.( not saying lightning speed my friend)....

Now if you asked that question above , and are waiting later to for the recording , or whatever , how can you go on to the next question?....The person on the other end of the line would die of boredom , or think you hung up...And actually , it would be impossible , you would have no answers to any other questions , you would not be able to ask them until you listened to the recorded session....correct?

Anyway , still want to know , if I can find someone in Minnesota ( I would have to know the city/town though) that would be willing to come to one of your sessions , and be a witness to it , would you be willing?

The pepper ball thing is losing me....I agree , the big fat naked guy thing , it is just not good for the mind :no:

I did a google on Trac Man ...This made me laugh , and I do hope it does IG also....I hope it is not where anyone got their inspiration for the name :)

Trac Man : "Trac-Man is a scientifically-developed device designed to permanently increase the length and girth of a man's penis, based on our proven method of safely applied traction."

source link : trac man

Edited by Sakari
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Hi IG, I know I'm answering your post a bit late in the day, but as I'm sure you'll agree, so much to do, so little time...but I think that in relation to the renewed discussions on the origins of your sessions a reply to the arguments you've made here can be justified.

Hi Antimony:

Actually, I'm in the vast majority when I say the subconscious mind does not exist. snip (for brevity)

Most psychologists do allow for the "unconscious mind" but its existence is very much in doubt, and in fact, there is no unconscious mind. snip

That is a very bold and sweeping statement you are making here

In reality, there is no such all-over consensus, nor is the existence of the unconscious so clearly disputed. In fact, there is good evidence indicating that the unconscious does indeed exist.

Here are just a few excerpts from scientific papers (from PubMed):

"Although the critiques take many forms, a central claim has long been that unconscious processes, like other psychoanalytic constructs, lack any basis in scientific research. In recent years, however, a large body of experimental research has emerged in a number of independent literatures. This work documents the most fundamental tenet of psychoanalysis--that much of mental life is unconscious, including cognitive, affective, and motivational processes." (Link)

"The unconscious mind is still viewed by many psychological scientists as the shadow of a “real” conscious mind, though there now exists substantial evidence that the unconscious is not identifiably less flexible, complex, controlling, deliberative, or action-oriented than is its counterpart."Link

"Recent research has established several empirical results that are widely agreed to merit description in terms of unconscious cognition. These findings come from experiments that use indirect tests for immediate or long-term residues of barely perceptible-but-unattended, or attended-but-forgotten events." (Link)

"Contemporary research in cognitive psychology reveals the impact of nonconscious mental structures and processes on the individual's conscious experience, thought, and action. Research on perceptual-cognitive and motoric skills indicates that they are automatized through experience, and thus rendered unconscious. In addition, research on subliminal perception, implicit memory, and hypnosis indicates that events can affect mental functions even though they cannot be consciously perceived or remembered. These findings suggest a tripartite division of the cognitive unconscious into truly unconscious mental processes operating on knowledge structures that may themselves be preconscious or subconscious." (Link)

There are many more scientific papers indicating evidence of the unconscious.

Here is also an interesting article on it, although not scientific, listing some good examples of the unconscious at work. (Link)

Also, as to linguistic arguments, as I've said, they're tricky and full of pitfalls. One can "prove" just about anything with linguistics. Over the years, I've read about many linguistics attempts to prove that Jesus was the reincarnation of Buddha. Here's something interesting:

http://www.jesusisbuddha.com/countess.html

I think that example is not very applicable. Here you have someone comparing two bodies of religious texts (by many different contributors) of two different cultures written centuries apart, to me comparing texts written/posted by one person over a relatively short time period.

But apart from that, using linguistics to analyse texts is much less haphazard and random than you think. Not that I am claiming to be an expert of course, just talking about linguistics as a means to analyse text per se.

On Stylometry:

"Stylometry is the application of the study of linguistic style, usually to written language. In the last few years it has successfully been applied also to music and to fine-art paintings.

Stylometry is often used to attribute authorship to anonymous or disputed documents. It has legal as well as academic and literary applications, ranging from the question of the authorship of Shakespeare's works to Forensic linguistics." (Link)

From: Linguistics in the courtroom:

"In the author/speaker comparison process, linguistic examiners analyze and compare applicable elements of the specific communications. These elements include vocabulary selection, syntax, phraseology, spelling, style, format, sentence length, pronunciation, intonation, pitch, rate of speech, voice quality, etc.

When testifying in court, linguistic experts might present computer printouts of word frequency counts and analyses, which show correlations of common word choice or word length between two communications, or words infrequently used by the general population. Experts might also demonstrate comparisons of other items, such as grammatical constructions and errors or speaking characteristics." (Link)

This link is from an FBI bulletin and also contains examples of forensic linguistics having helped to convict/solve criminal cases.

From wiki:

"Forensic linguists have given expert evidence in a wide variety of cases, including abuse of process, where police statements were found to be too similar to have been independently produced by police officers; the authorship of hate mail; the authorship of letters to an Internet child pornography service; the contemporaneity of an arsonist's diary; the comparison between a set of mobile phone texts and a suspect's police interview, and the reconstruction of a mobile phone text." conversation.(Link)

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With regards to your arguments about the pointlessness of filming a Ouija board session, I have to agree with Jerry Only.

Although it will not conclusively prove that you are channelling some spirit/ultradimensional entity, it at least will show that you are not making it up.

And why don't you let others be the judge of what they are seeing? I don't understand your reluctance. I'm sure one would be able to see a difference between you deliberately moving the planchette (no, spellcheck, not pancetta!) & it moving by it's own. F. ex. with deliberate pushing, your eyes would move first to the letter, then the planchette, with the planchette moving alone, your eyes would mainly focus on it & follow it.

Sure, you could write up a whole section of Dr. 58, learn it by heart & then spell it out, but that would be a heck of work, and we could possibly notice when you get stuck on your "lines".

If you are so worried about things "turning into a zoo" & creating a big commotion after posting a video (which I very much doubt would happen), why don't you agree beforehand on a set date and time (f. ex. 3 days) for the video to be viewable & then take it down again. And I'm sure there is an app somewhere to prevent it from being copied?

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To be honest, I find your attitudes a bit perplexing.

On one hand you have stated repeatedly that you don't know exactly what is going on during your sessions, and that you are open to entertain all possibilities, on the other hand you clearly state that you do not believe the unconscious exists and that you "know" (your words) that it is not your unconscious creating them.

You are a regular columnist at UM, investigating and reporting on the Paranormal, spend considerable time & effort conducting, transcribing & posting your sessions, yet show so little curiosity & interest to investigate the source of them, saying it is "just a "hobby" and "wildly entertaining bull**t" (again, your words)

You say that you don't believe that any of your transcripts "have any truth or reality" & think the subconscious doesn't exist, but with regards to the reoccurrence of the term "Verdantic Mystery" you think it could either be "an artifact of your subconscious mind" or that "the Verdantic Mysteries are real." I'm sure you see the contradiction in that yourself.

So, maybe you could elucidate your position a bit?

Lastly, I appreciate that you want to ensure that the instalments you are posting are not too complicated or convoluted to put readers off and that transcribing them is time consuming.

But personally I would much prefer to read the original transcripts, even if they might be boring or confusing, rather than a summary written by you. It will automatically be put through the filter of your interpretation and will make it impossible to assess it independently ourselves.

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