The Strange Tale of "Dr. 58"

[+susieice]

I still don't know what to think of all of this. I have no doubt you are a very gifted writer IG. In the question part of your experience, I see you refer to "we" as in there are more people than yourself present during these sessions. Just curious. What do they think about this?

[IronGhost]

I still don't know what to think of all of this. I have no doubt you are a very gifted writer IG. In the question part of your experience, I see you refer to "we" as in there are more people than yourself present during these sessions. Just curious. What do they think about this?

Ha, ha! What do other people think who attend my session in person? Let's just say I get extremely little respect, generally in a good natured sort of way. Occasionally some people get very spooked and leave; other times, some people are profoundly affected in an emotional way, bt that's not too often.

The vast majority of the time, however, I prefer to conduct session with just three people, myself, an Ouija partner and a recorder, and most of the time these are the same two people -- although over the years there have been many different situations.

In general, I avoid "an audience" because it very quickly snowballs, dozens of people want to attend, and it becomes a zoo. There have been times when a person or persons will try to sneak in a tape recorder or video camera, or take pictures with their phones, but I strictly forbid all of this this.

The Dr. 58 sessions are being handled by just Brian and I, and an old battered tape recorder, and are only done after we do some kind of hard labor, such as chopping or hauling wood, or working in the forest.

[Pauly Dangerously]

Jeeze, so many martyrs here, who would have guessed?

[+susieice]

OK. I got ya. You and a person named Brian are usually the only people present when these sessions take place. I understand why you wouldn't want a lot of people around. I would probably be one of the spooked ones. I asked because it seems these sessions would be long. I can't recall hearing about anyone receiving such frequent time of contact with one specific entity over such a long period of time using a Ouiji board. I'm not saying I doubt you, I was just wondering.

Anyway, I am looking forward to reading more about these communications with the Dr. 58 entity. You say you only conduct these sessions after hard labor or being in the woods. Does that have some sort of significance to the two of you? Again, just curious.

[Ashleen]

Wow. that's really intriguing. You're deff. tapping into a creative resource. I want to try this. I was wondering if there's a trick or technique to make it work. I have a ouija board that I made, but I've yet to get anything out of it.

[Guyver]

It is a bit off topic for this thread and forum.

Furthermore, I unfortunately do not feel like defending myself and listen to people attack me over claiming it to be true.

Thanks for the interesting read IG!

PM me, you won't receive skeptical criticism and I'll give you some of mine as well.

[Murrangurk]

Wow.

I have always thought that Ouija boards open up or "permit" the subconscious to express itself, hence so many garbled messages. I am amazed you've been doing this for 40+years. I can't help but wonder if you haven't developed a skill in letting the SubC out?

But why not permit cameras and other recordings? Perhaps a CCTV infrared cam? I dunno, you're the expert and I have NEVER fooled with a Ouija board.

I wanna read more of your accounts!!

[Murrangurk]

Verdantic - that means green....

Green mysteries....what have you been smoking?

Sorry couldn't resist. Please, more!!

[OldTimeRadio]

Any idea of how 58 (might that stand for EH?) became a Doctor (of what?) by age 17, in 1951 OR 2010?

Edited May 15, 2010 by OldTimeRadio

[_Only]

Any idea of how 58 (might that stand for EH?) became a Doctor (of what?) by age 17, in 1951 OR 2010?

[OldTimeRadio]

Yes, I thought of Doogie Howser as I keyboarded, but he was a fictional character, but we are apparently asked to accept "Dr. 58" as (supposedly) real.

[OldTimeRadio]

Just a few random notes:

"Hassas" is apparently an Old Turkish word meaning something like "kill" or "exterminate." It is possibly ancestral to the word "(H)Assassin."

"Vromin" is a real name but it is more commonly spelled "Vroman."

Look at all the letters in common between "Reston Vromin" and "Preslin Barton."

[CausticGnostic]

Your posts are always entertaining, Iron Ghost. I'm a die-hard skeptic regarding most outrageous claims, but I also concede that there are "more things in heaven and earth" than I can dream up. How do you reconcile not taking any of this "Ouija material" seriously and yet speculating in the sessions that Dr. 58 is from an alternate universe? By the way, the difference between 1951 and 2010 is 59 years, not far off 58. Also, didn't Watson and Crick (in "our" universe) discover the double-helical structure of the DNA molecule in the mid-50s? Maybe that's why Dr. 58 (59?) didn't know what DNA was. As for an alternate-universe Nazi movement without Hitler, would that have made it any less odious? You should ask the "kid from New York" some more questions about who led the Nazi movement, as well as simple things like who the Presidents of the U.S. were (in his universe) since 1900. In Heinlein's alternate-universe stories, that's how his main characters distinguished between alternate Earths. Ask Dr. 58 whether there was an American Civil War and, if so, when it occurred and who the President was. In other words, if you're going to investigate Dr. 58's "other Earth," get some baseline "historical" facts. Of course, doing so takes for granted the rather extraordinary implication that a Ouija board is capable of somehow crossing the quantum gap between alternate universes. In any case, Iron Ghost, thanks for an entertaining read.

Edited May 15, 2010 by CausticGnostic

[Murrangurk]

I like the way you think CG. I thought it was interesting that Minnesota kept its original native name, but the Mississippi was changed. How was America colonized in Dr 58's world?

I think a Nazi movement without Hitler would be far deadlier. It was all about nationalizing every resource and fascist policies. Hitler was an unbalanced kind of guy. A more balanced character and the industrial power of Nazism would have been harnessed and not squandered. I wonder what happened to the Jews in Dr 58's reality?

Also, is his U.S. a free democratic state? SOunds like a distopian police state. But then again, 1951 was the McArthy period. Maybe Dr 58 has something more than reds under his beds.

[Child of the light]

I found this story fascinating and I would really like to read more about it even if it is fake or real, I am intrigued and want to see how it end. If this is just made up you should consider becoming a writer

[_Only]

I found this story fascinating and I would really like to read more about it even if it is fake or real, I am intrigued and want to see how it end. If this is just made up you should consider becoming a writer

He is one. Imagine that.

[IronGhost]

He is one. Imagine that.

True, but remember I did tens of thousands of words of Ouija channeling for 10 years before I began my career in writing, and the quality of those early session is more or less the same or often better, than those I have done after I learned to write.

Edited May 15, 2010 by IronGhost

[Drifting Orchid]

True, but remember I did tens of thousands of words of Ouija channeling for 10 years before I began my career in writing, and the quality of those early session is more or less the same or often better, than those I have done after I learned to write.

No point in arguing with in my opinion.

[IronGhost]

Okay, here is one more installment, anyway.....

Question: Dr. 58, we have so many questions for you. There is so much here that does not seem to make sense to us. We think it is strange that you did not know that the Graditch Chax was called the Mississippi River here in our Minnesota, yet you use the term Minnesota. Can you explain?

ANSWER: I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.

Question: Well, it just seems that if you would know one term you would know the other.

ANSWER: YOU CALL IT MISSISSIPPI, NOT ME.

Question: Well …. Yes … but can you tell us about the origin of the word Minnesota? I mean, how did it get its name? In our world, it is roughly a Native American term that means Land of Sky Blue Water. This would suggest that it was named by those who knew it and lived there, and would suggest the same for your world, do you see what we mean? How could you know it is called Minnesota?

ANSWER: THE NAME WAS DIVINED BY THE SORCERER BENJAMIN FRANKLIN.

Question: Eeeoooww! Were almost sorry we asked. Ben Franklin -- sorcerer! He was a sorcerer in your world?

ANSWER: FRANKLIN WIELDED THE ENDERGONIC GNOSIS, AND THROUGH IT DIVINED THE NAME MINNESOTA.

Question: Wow! We consider Benjamin Franklin to be one of the greatest Americans, one of the Founding Fathers of our country. He was a genius, a scientist, yes, but not a sorcerer. Is this not the case in your world?

ANSWER: FRANKLIN WAS ORIGINALLY AN IMPORTANT AMERICAN FOUNDER, BUT WAS SEDUCED BY THE ENDERGONIC GNOSIS, AND LATER EXECUTED.

Question: Ahhhh! Tell us more about this! First, what is this Endergonic Gnosis?

ANSWER: A SYSTEM OF THE ANCIENTS, THE PYRAMID BUILDERS OF THE AMERICAS. THE ENDERGONIC GNOSIS COULD DIVINE, AND DO OTHER THINGS. IT WAS BANNED AS EXTREMELY DANGEROUS,FOR OBVIOUS REASONS.

Question: Jeepers. Well, what exactly was this system, this Endergonic Gnosis?

ANSWER: I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN.

Question: Well was it a set of text, or a machine, or some kind of ancient relic, or all of the above, or what?

ANSWER: LITTLE IS KNOWN BECAUSE KNOWLEDGE OF IT HAS LONG BEEN SURPRESSED. IT WAS POWERFUL. ONE ASPECT OF IT WAS A LARGE STONE CIRLCE WITH A DEPICTION OF THE SUN AT THE CENTER.

Question: How did Benjamin Franklin obtain the Endergonic Gnosis?

ANSWER: HE BECAME FASCINATED WITH STRANGE AND FANTASTIC TALES OF A LAND SAID TO BE DEEP IN THE INTERIOR OF THE CONTINENT. IT WAS PROBABLY MINNESOTA. IT WAS ORIGINALLY THOUGHT TO BE SUPERSTITION OF THE NATIVES.

Question: But Franklin suspected there might be something more to it?

ANSWER: YES. FRANKLIN TRAVELED WEST INTO THE WILDERNESS AND EMERGED YEARS LATER WITH THE ENDERGONIC GNOSIS.

Question: Hmmm. That sounds an awful lot like Father Vromins story.

ANSWER: IT IS THE STORY OF MORE THAN ONE.

Question: Well, anyway, Im guessing then that Franklin began messing around with the Endergonic Gnosis, and thus began earning the reputation of a sorcerer. Am I on track here?

ANSWER: YES. FRANKLIN LEARNED TO MANIPULATE ELECTROMAGNETIC ENERGY FROM THE ENDERGONIC GNOSIS. HE COMMANDED LIGHTENING. HE BECAME DANGEROUS AND INSANE.

Question: Well, what did he do with this energy? In our world, Franklin is revered as a great scientists and statesman who discovered some of the first principles of electricity by his study of lightening. But he never did anything dangerous.

ANSWER: AT FIRST HE WAS MUCH HONORED. BUT HIS WORK WITH THE ENDERGONIC GNOSIS BECAME MORE FRIGHTENING. HE DESTROYED NEW AMSTERDAM WITH ELECTRICAL CONCUSSION FLAME. HE KILLED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. A HUGE UNDERSEA CRATER STILL EXISTS.

Question: Why did he do that? Was he trying to take over the country, or become some kind of all powerful ruler, or something like that?

ANSWER: THE SITUATION IS COMPLEX. THE OFFICIAL STORY RULES THE DAY.

Question: The official story? Is there another version?

ANSWER: OF COURSE. THE UNDERGROUND. THEY BELIEVE FRANKLIN WAS UNFARILY PERSECUTED. HE IS A HERO TO THE SOCMALS. THE ENDERGONIC GNOSIS WAS SURPRESSED BY ORDER OF THE FIRST IMPERATOR.

Question: Who are the Socmals?

ANSWER: SOCIAL MALCONTENTS.

Question: These are antigovernment people, nonconformists, those that didnt like the official government and the system?

ANSWER: YES.

Question: Do the Socmals still exist in your time?

ANSWER: YES, OF COURSE.

Question: Who is this First Imperator you speak of?

ANSWER: THE FIRST IMPERATOR OF THE UNITED STATES.

Question: We call our leader the President of the United States. The first President was George Washington. Was he your First Imperator?

ANSWER: THE FIRST IMPERATOR WAS XANDER HAMILTON. GEORGE WASHINGTON WAS A GREAT MILITARY LEADER.

Question: Wow. Did you mean Alexander Hamilton?

ANSWER: XANDER.

Question: Do you still call the top guy of the American government The Imperator?

ANSWER: YES, OF COURSE.

Question: Who is the current Imperator there in your year of 1951?

ANSWER: RIGGOLD BANNON

Question: Oh brother. Your every answer begs another 10 questions. Its so easy to get pulled into many directions. But lets go back to how Minnesota got its name. You say Franklin somehow got it from the Endergonic Gnosis?

ANSWER: FRANKLIN WAS A GREAT COMMUNICATOR. HE PUBLISHED MANY ROLL-UPS THAT WERE WIDELY READ. HE SPOKE OF THE MAGICAL LAND OFTEN. HE CALLED IT MINNESOTA. THIS WAS POPULAR AT FIRST. BUT FRANKLIN GREW IN THE POWER OF THE GNOSIS AND WAS DECLARED SOCIAL MALCONTENT.

Question: But now the name Minnesota cannot be used or spoken officially, or in public?

ANSWER: NO. IT IS SOCMAL TO SPEAK IT.

Question: Is it known if Franklin himself ever entered Minnesota?

ANSWER: I DONT KNOW.

Question: What is the origin of the name Graditch Chax?

ANSWER: I DONT KNOW.

Question: How was Franklin executed?

ANSWER: HANGED.

Question: Well, if he wielded the incredible power of the Endergonic Gnosis, and if he could zap entire cities with concussion electricity, how did they ever subdue him?

ANSWER: LIKE I SAID, ITS THE OFFICIAL VERSION.

Question: So you are saying that Franklin may never have been brought to heel by the authorities?

ANSWER: THERE ARE MANY CONSPIRACY THEORIES. THE SOCMALS BELIEVE HE ESCAPED AND DISAPPEARED INTO MINNESOTA. EITHER WAY HE WAS GONE.

Question: Dr. 58, you seem like someone who would be Socmal. Are you?

ANSWER: NO. I DECLARED 5-YEAR UNCOP AT AGE 16, AS WAS MY RIGHT.

Question: What is Uncop?

ANSWER: UNCOOPERATIVE.

Question: Uncooperative with your government or society? How is that different from being Socmal?

ANSWER: UNCOP IS LEGAL FOR FIVE YEARS. THEN YOU MUST DECLARE.

Question: What do you declare?

ANSWER: MAN THING. SEE THEE UP, SEE THEE DOONE, SEE THEE UP SEE THEE DOONE. MAN THING, SEE THEE UP SEE THEE DOONE.

Question: What??????????????

ANSWER: MAN THING, SEE THEE UP, SEE THEE DOONE. SEE THREE UP, SEE THEE DOONE. BEHOLD, MAN THING. SEE THEE UP, SEE THEE DOONE ….

Question: Dr. 58!! What the hell are you talking about??????!!!!!!!!!

ANSWER: HEED, MAN THING. SEE THEE UP SEE THEE DOONE. SEE THEE UP, SEE THEE DOONE …..

(Note: Suddenly, the only thing that would come across the board was this cryptic message over and over again. For every question, the only answer was someone or some thing referring to us as Man Thing and then saying See thee up, see thee doone over and over again.

Because of this jarring shift in tone, and total irrelevancy of the flow of conversation with Dr. 58, we speculated that some other Ouija entity had interrupted or contaminated our session. But who, what and why? Of course, it is extremely difficult to know.

Something like this is not unprecedented in my experience. Occasionally, troublesome, pesky sprites or beings will horn in and try to grab our attention. Its not always a bad thing, as in the case of Aimee, the lonely little girl who had drowned and who wanted to speak with us. We always loved Aimee, and were delighted when she horned in. As some of you here have read in my other transcripts, we finally got MOMMY to help Amiee get to a better place.

Anyway, we didnt want to transcribe the phrase See thee up, see three down… endlessly, so we endeavored to get rid of who or what ever this thing was).

Question: To the entity that is referring to us as Man Thing please state your message. What is that you want?

ANSWER: MAN THING, SEE THEE UP, SEE THEE DOONE …. (repeat).

Question: !!!!! Shut-uuuuup !!!!!! Tell us something that makes sense or get lost!

ANSWER: MAN THING, SEE THEE UP, SEE THEE DOONE …. (repeat)

Question: Listen to us now! If you dont shut up and get the hell out of here, we will enact Rule 9, and you can deal with the consequences!!! Will you leave?!!

(Note: There is no such thing as Rule 9. We made that up as a bluff. We again called upon the contaminating being, but received no further response. We were confident we had made the entity buzz off. At this point we decided to end the session, and try our hand at Dr. 58 later).

Edited May 16, 2010 by IronGhost

[Robin_Shadowes]

I want to know if there is any portal or gateway to Dr 58's world. His reality seems a lot more interesting and fascinating. I can imagine it would be something like waking up in Neil Gaiman's Mirror Mask or something like that. Something very surreal. But I like surreal. Just that I have never tried to live it yet.

[kirstylou]

ver interesting read... cant wait to hear more!!

[000000000000000]

hmmm. This story is getting better and better. I wonder if there is something that could connect our and this dr. 58's world and ours. I wonder if you could ask him if there is anyway to connect our worlds. Also I was wondering why the number 58 so I did a quick google search. I found that it is a number important to Central and Southern American Mythology. Apparently it is the symbol of bad luck and soon after the number came up destruction of some kind followed. That seems a little interesting I guess.

[_Spawn_]

a very amusing story, but that's all it is.

[louis_last]

keep it coming iron ghost

[Guyver]

Love you IronGhost truly....but after reading this one I've got to say....I think the "spirits" are messing with you. Seriously. Still having said that...please don't stop digging out your files. You bring the flavor.