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The Strange Tale of "Dr. 58"


IronGhost

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I don't know if I'd cal myself a detractor, but, if his claim that this wasn't written by him (which I highly feel it is) is false and he made this story up about how he got these stories, it would be against a forum rule. Unfortunately, I can't post that rule or it'll be removed for "rule posting". :s

Technically, of course it was written by IG. But the question is - is it automatic writing? That's the claim. That the source is from the Ouija board. IG and his associates must of course put there fingers on the planchette and "operate" it. Then they have to dictate the information.

The next bit is having it edited concisely for the forum to digest easily. That's why I'm hungry to know the whole details, every thing the "entity" says, and every thing about the environment, so I can further reflect on the whole situation.

there was a comment previously I have found telling, regarding the "ideometer". And it suggests to me upon further reflection of the material, that IG is not "making it up" per se, but also that the personalities are not actual entities, but are some kind of machinations of IG's subconscious. Dr 58 just doesn't respond the way a curious, rebellious 17 year old. In fact he seems at times positively stupid.

Now, if you were a rebellious teen, with the drive and cunning to sneak away, hook up to the Hassass Grid and take the terrible risk of asking about forbidden Minnesota, from complete strangers, wouldn't you be WAY more inquisitive? Wouldn't also you be more imaginative? For eg, when ever Dr 58 meets with aspects of our world, he just can't entertain the thought and respond with a question of his own initiative. Instead he expresses his disbelief and sometimes his disdain.

When IG and co find out about his world, they express their wonder and curiosity all the time. Only to go further and further down the rabbit hole.

I think he is activating the part of his mind that operates alternative egos during dreaming. The artifice of the ouija board and the ritualistic focus on the planchette, kind of like a meditation, allows it to come to the fore, but it's just a dream. And you certainly can't really take credit for writing your dreams. In most cases anyway.

It seems real and the conscious mind, ie IG, his Ouija buddies, and also us, are engaged intellectually and also emotionally in the narrative of the characters. But it goes no where. just morphs further into the dream world. Reminds me of dreams I had about ice cream cones when I was young. I reached out for them tried to lick them, they got bigger and more fantastic, but i could never get to it.

Then again, I could be COMPELETELY wrong. And it could be an actual alternate dimension.

What does everyone else think?

Please, Ironghost, keep it coming! I still want to know about the satellite disaster!

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Now, if you were a rebellious teen, with the drive and cunning to sneak away, hook up to the Hassass Grid and take the terrible risk of asking about forbidden Minnesota, from complete strangers, wouldn't you be WAY more inquisitive? Wouldn't also you be more imaginative? For eg, when ever Dr 58 meets with aspects of our world, he just can't entertain the thought and respond with a question of his own initiative. Instead he expresses his disbelief and sometimes his disdain.

A rebellious teen who is caught up in the excitement would be way more inquisitive, but the way I have been reading it falls in line with what I`would expect from someone who is using something they shouldn't be using, without being sure of it's validity, or if it's a set-up.

If I was Dr.58, I wouldn't be asking many questions yet either, so if caught, or if it proved to be a set-up, I can plead my ignorance, and point to the fact that if the converstaion was recorded it could be seen that I wasn't leading the conversation, asking questions about Minnesota, or prying into things that I have been told I'm not allowed to pry into - I would point to the transcript to show that I was merely answering basic questions, being led and not leading the exchange.

If the fear of this method of communication, and the content of talking about Minnesota are to be believed, I would say Dr.58 is playing this correctly, and intelligently.

All speculative of course......

Edited by -Scanner-
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Now, if you were a rebellious teen, with the drive and cunning to sneak away, hook up to the Hassass Grid and take the terrible risk of asking about forbidden Minnesota, from complete strangers, wouldn't you be WAY more inquisitive? Wouldn't also you be more imaginative? For eg, when ever Dr 58 meets with aspects of our world, he just can't entertain the thought and respond with a question of his own initiative. Instead he expresses his disbelief and sometimes his disdain.

Very early on I asked the same question of him and ALL of his automatic writings. They seem to reply without being inquisitive in the least.

And IronGhost answered me. Basically he removes a LOT of whats being said from our logs. He leaves out most of the constant explanations/questions by the other side(things we already know about our world) that the entities ask him simply so the logs are not gigantic and boring.

-Caitlyn

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Very early on I asked the same question of him and ALL of his automatic writings. They seem to reply without being inquisitive in the least.

And IronGhost answered me. Basically he removes a LOT of whats being said from our logs. He leaves out most of the constant explanations/questions by the other side(things we already know about our world) that the entities ask him simply so the logs are not gigantic and boring.

-Caitlyn

Ah, I missed that, that would explain a lot.

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Very early on I asked the same question of him and ALL of his automatic writings. They seem to reply without being inquisitive in the least.

And IronGhost answered me. Basically he removes a LOT of whats being said from our logs. He leaves out most of the constant explanations/questions by the other side(things we already know about our world) that the entities ask him simply so the logs are not gigantic and boring.

-Caitlyn

Well.

there goes THAT theory!

thanks Caitlyn!!

how does one get to read the whole, gigantic, boring thing? I'd be SO interested in that too!! Some of the blogs I saw didn't have all of it.

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No clue. That was just the explanation he gave me.

Going to have to ask to see the full thing from him I guess.

;)

Also, it would explain why his logs take so long to pop up, and why he is always so exhausted.

Edited by Drifting Orchid
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A statement:

* Imagine a 9-year-old ordinary good Catholic boy who is out hunting with some older boys. One of the older boys accidently shoots the 9-year-old boy in the stomach. The boy loses a massive amount of blood, sustains inner organ damage, but survives the ordeal because it is 15-degree-below zero outside and he freezes.

* The boy has a fantastically intense near death experience that shatters his world view from top to bottom. He thinks that everything he thought he knew was false.

* The boy spends the next 10 or 12 years trying to stuff the strange new world view back into the box, to get rid of it, and finally thinks he gets it done with an intensive appeal to emperical science. His ultimate hero is the ultimate rationalist, Issac Newton.

* Then, when in college, the young man takes Zen meditation class as a 1-credit philosophy elective. The young man then continues to Zen meditate every day for the next 29 years without missing a day.

* 10,592 consecutive days of Zen. (Including leap year days).

* Along the way, this guy is making an ongoing intensive study of lucid dreaming and OBEs. He experiments with all kinds of things for some 30 years. For example, he buys the "NovaDreamer", a dream mask, from the Lucidty Institute at Stanford U., and spends thousands of nights programming lucid dreams.

* He also experiments extensively with other stuff, such as Hemi-Sync technology from the Monroe Institute. He spends thousands of hours massaging his Zen meditated brain with Hemi-Sync biurnal beats -- he learns to experience OBEs, but is never really sure if an OBE is type of lucid dream, or some objective kind of soul travel -- and concludes they are neither.

* While all this is going on, this guy regularly engages in a favorite hobby, making transcripts with an Ouija board -- something he started before that first NDE.

* Along the way, the Zen, the lucid dreaming, the Hemi-Sync -- lots of other stuff -- naturally informs and shape and results of the Ouija practice.

* That person is me, your host in presenting these Ouija sessions.

* I hope you're all enjoying them, not worrying at all about them, or even taking them seriously if you don't want to. If you want to think about them, that's fine. If you don't think about them, there's no loss.

* (Thinking is not what we "think" it is in the first place).

* I am not saying the information in these transcripts are real.

* I am not saying the information is unreal.

* I am not saying the information is both real and unreal at the same time.

* I'm simply presenting the transcripts and saying, "Here they are."

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Opening statement: Dr. 58, do you attend the Hassas Grid?

ANSWER: MAN THING, SEE THEE UP.

Question: Not you again! Who are you and what do you want?

ANSWER: HEED EE NOW, MAN THING. EE WOULD SAVVY THEE.

Question: That's progress. What do you want?

ANSWER: CRAVE THEE A BOON, MAN THING, DA YEE?

Question: A boon? Don't tell me your offering me something.

ANSWER: AYE, MAN THING. GO YEE SOFT. CRAVE THEE A BOON?

Question: No. But purely for the sake of discussion what are you offering?

ANSWER: A BOON TO THEE, MAN THING. A RIGHT BOON!

Question: My patience is limited. What is the boon?

ANSWER: BUT SOFTLY, DO THEE CRAVE IT?

Question: Right now, I’m craving a cup of coffee. I'll tell you what. I will name my boon.

ANSWER: SPEAK IT TO EE, MAN THING.

Question: Let it first be understood, that the boon I now request be offered freely to me from you, and without reservation. In providing this boon, it implies absolutely no obligation from me to you or anyone else on my part whatsoever. In providing me this boon, it is understood that I owe you nothing now, not retroactively, nor in the future, nor anyone else, including any of your associates. In short, the boon I ask is to be given to me freely by you -- from you to me -- and that after the boon is given, no obligation remains in the absolute and extreme sense, and in every nuance of meaning. You provide the boon, I take it, and no obligation entails, nothing remains, not even the air itself, nor even the fabric of the universe, not one single atom or subatomic particle, or antiparticle, in this universe or any alternate or parallel universe in any permutation. Do you savvy?

ANSWER: MAN THING, EE HERE CANNOT ACCEPT UNTIL EE SAVVY THE BOON.

Question: The boon I request, then, is an item of information. Remember, in providing this information to me, you are supplying it to me freely, and I mean free in the radical, extreme and unlimited and infinite sense.

ANSWER: SAVVY! SPEAK THEE BOON!

Question: Why do you call me "Man Thing"?

ANSWER: AYE, MAN THING. THOU ART A SUB MAN, CLEAR?

Question: No. Let it be understood that if I continue to request the boon of additional information from you, the same aforementioned standard applies, that of complete and total relief from any obligation between me and you whatsoever. Do you savvy?

ANSWER: AYE, SPEAK THEE, MAN THING.

Question: You think I am a Sub Man? I presume that implies that you are in some way superior to me? I mean, do you consider yourself some kind of higher form of man than me?

ANSWER: GO THEE SOFT, MAN THING! EE NOT BE A MAN HERE. THEE BE MAN OF SHADOW MINNESOTA.

Question: I'm a man from Shadow Minnesota, and therefore a sub man, or man thing? Who are what are you? Remember our ongoing agreement regarding freely offered information.

ANSWER: EE NOT BE A MAN, BUT CERTAINLY OF THE KINGDOM.

Question: You're not a man, not a human being, but some kind of creature or entity of some kingdom? What kingdom is that?

QUESTION: TRUE KINGDOME, MAN THING. THEE FRIEND AND THEE RUCK IN MINNESOTA, BUT THEE ERR, MAN THING. THEE ERR!

Question: What friend are you talking about?

ANSWER: AYE, DR. 58, MAN THING.

Question: How do we err, as you say?

ANSWER: THEE AND DR. 58 RUCK IN MINNESOTA. YET THERE BE A TRUE KINGDOM, AYE?

Question: Hmmm. What you seem to be saying is that I exist in some sort of lower, perhaps cruder version of Minnesota, a shadow version, but my universe is perhaps a sub universe of some kind of higher, or perhaps more legitimate Minnesota, and this is the true Kingdom. Is that the case?

ANSWER: AYE, MAN THING, TRUE KINGDOM! SAVVY!

Question: Well, Dr. 58 seems to be talking about some version of Minnesota that bears no resemblance to mine. Is the true Minnesota Dr. 58 seeks information about your Kingdom?

ANSWER: AYE, AYE, MAN THING! SAVVY!

Question: How it that you are able to listen in on our conversation? What is your method? And, incidentally, this is rather rude and inconsiderate behavior.

ASNWER; NOT THEE BOON TO KNOW, MAN THING! THIS BE A NEW BOON.

Question: Then forget about it, I don’t want to know how you are listening in, I don’t even want to know why. Offer me this boon, but only if freely and without obligation in the extreme, total and complete sense of the meaning. Tell me your name.

ANSWER: ERR YEE, DO! ERR, MAN THING! NOT BE THIS THY BOON!

Question: Well, then just what the hell do you want? And if you are draining my C-Chits, then you are coming under obligation to me, do you savvy?

ANSWER: C-CHIT FOR THEE SUB MAN, MAN THING! C-CHIT NOT FOR KINGDOM!

Question: Whaaaaat-- evvvvvverrrrr! What do you want!!!!!!!!

ANSWER: TELL YEE THY FRIEND, DR. 58, TO VISIT KINGDOM. DR. 58 SHOULD KINGDOM COME. HE SAVVY YOU.

Question: That’s what this is all about? You want me to use my connection with Dr. 58 to try to convince him to travel to your Kingdom, this region which you say is the “Real Minnesota” Dr. 58 is talking about?

ASNWER: SAVVY THAT! I GEE THEE A BOON!

Question: You want me to sell out Dr. 58, and you will provide me with some kind of reward?

ANSWER: SAVVY! SAVVY, MAN THING!

Question: Ha, ha! Ha, ha, ha, ha! What will you do when he gets there? Perhaps clone him out into some kind of doppelganger, send him back to New York so he can suck out his mom and dad’s brains?

ANSWER: IGNORANT, MAN THING! CRUDE! NOT THEE BOON TO KNOW BUSINESS OF THE KINGDOM. SEND THEE DR. 58 HERE!

Question: I have no power to send him, nor will I recommend that he travel to his version of Minnesota, your Kingdom. If he chooses to go there of his own free will, that’s his business and none of mine. We are finished here.

ANSWER: SEE THEE UP, MAN THING! SEE THEE DOONE!

Question: Once again, and with much, much regret, I must remind you that we are prepared to enact Plan 9 less you cease and desist.

ANSWER: SAVVY ME THIS, PLAN 9, MAN THING. WHAT BE PLAN 9?

Question: You’ll understand it quite well after it rips your face off. Now good-bye.

(That ended the communication with this entity. How curious! I wonder what is really going on.)

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* I am not saying the information is unreal.

* I am not saying the information is both real and unreal at the same time.

* I'm simply presenting the transcripts and saying, "Here they are."

That's why I'm on your side. Your detractors would be well served to understand this. But, it's human nature to jump to conclusions, often without all the facts, and also to be afraid of the unknown.

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That's why I'm on your side. Your detractors would be well served to understand this. But, it's human nature to jump to conclusions, often without all the facts, and also to be afraid of the unknown.

Indeed. I'm surprised his detractors missed this point. It seems pretty well advertised.

Ironghost, I know you must be busy, and getting an awful lot of emails from people (hopefully not too abusive,) but I'm really keen to read the whole account, including your explanations about our world to them, and anything else of minute detail that may have been recorded. I noticed some of your blogs aren't operating any more, or have nothing in the links. Can you email or PM me this info if available?

Thanks!!

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I would be curious ( but not that curious) for someone (not me) to take some of this text from the story , and use a Ouiji Board...See just how long it would take to actually follow all of the letters in the story...I mean , this seems like it would take forever and a day to get all of those words...Not to mention , on a recorder to be watched later to see what they said?

Anyway , I enjoy fiction , and this is a pretty nice story...I would think someone with so much ability on a Ouiji Board would be more than happy to post some of these videos they have?

The ones showing the "planchette" ( whatever it is) moving so fast , and making those sentences?I am sure you still have those videos....I would love to see them , and it would be even nicer if you could post one with a comment as to what part of the story it is that you posted , just so I can see if it all spells out correctlly , and also to listen to your verbal communication......

This would be sooooo cool , but I am not holding my breath....

And , I apologise if someone else asked for this also , I skipped a few comments...

Anyway , please respond , I really think seeing your video files , with the verbal communication , and being able to see the letters ourselves , would make more believers in this topic.

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I would be curious ( but not that curious) for someone (not me) to take some of this text from the story , and use a Ouiji Board...See just how long it would take to actually follow all of the letters in the story...I mean , this seems like it would take forever and a day to get all of those words...Not to mention , on a recorder to be watched later to see what they said?

Anyway , I enjoy fiction , and this is a pretty nice story...I would think someone with so much ability on a Ouiji Board would be more than happy to post some of these videos they have?

The ones showing the "planchette" ( whatever it is) moving so fast , and making those sentences?I am sure you still have those videos....I would love to see them , and it would be even nicer if you could post one with a comment as to what part of the story it is that you posted , just so I can see if it all spells out correctlly , and also to listen to your verbal communication......

This would be sooooo cool , but I am not holding my breath....

And , I apologise if someone else asked for this also , I skipped a few comments...

Anyway , please respond , I really think seeing your video files , with the verbal communication , and being able to see the letters ourselves , would make more believers in this topic.

There are no videos of any my sessions. I've said many times on these forums that I have never allowed video tapes of my Ouija sessions, and never will. I just can't live with that kind of side show.

As for the large number of words, I have discussed this a number of times as well. One thing people should remember that the transcripts look quite lengthy, and they are, but the bulk of the words are not off the Ouija, but are my own questions or comments.

Go back and look at the transcripts -- you'll see the Ouija answers tend to be short and clipped for the most part.

Finally, I am a rank amateur compared to some. A few people have written entire full-length books using the Ouija, including a woman who claimed to channel a book by Mark Twain's ghost. I equate it to basically like hunting and pecking at a keyboard. The words actually pile up quickly, relatively speaking.

Edited by IronGhost
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There are no videos of any my sessions. I've said many times on these forums that I have never allowed video tapes of my Ouija sessions, and never will. I just can't live with that kind of side show.

As for the large number of words, I have discussed this a number of times as well. One thing people should remember that the transcripts look quite lengthy, and they are, but the bulk of the words are not off the Ouija, but are my own questions or comments.

Go back and look at the transcripts -- you'll see the Ouija answers tend to be short and clipped for the most part.

Finally, I am a rank amateur compared to some. A few people have written entire full-length books using the Ouija, including a woman who claimed to channel a book by Mark Twain's ghost. I equate it to basically like hunting and pecking at a keyboard. The words actually pile up quickly, relatively speaking.

Ok , this is a direct quote from you... "It just pours off the board; we have to use a tape recorder to keep up with the letters."

Why a tape recorder?....How does a tape recorder keep up with letter on a board?...If you mean , you say them out loud , than same goes...Can you post this?...I would love to hear it , and match the letters to the corresponding story.

I have a website with unlimited bandwidth , and could easily let you upload them via FTP.

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Ok , this is a direct quote from you... "It just pours off the board; we have to use a tape recorder to keep up with the letters."

Why a tape recorder?....How does a tape recorder keep up with letter on a board?...If you mean , you say them out loud , than same goes...Can you post this?...I would love to hear it , and match the letters to the corresponding story.

I have a website with unlimited bandwidth , and could easily let you upload them via FTP.

Yes, in this case, the letters come very swiftly -- relatively speaking!

As I have said, in most cases we use a human recorder with pad and paper. In this case, it's simply easiest to use a tape recorder.

I've confronted the video and audio question many times over the years. I've never allowed video, and I never publish tapes, and I don't keep tapes, in any case.

When people ask me why, I now always say: "I'm not goin' down to Guru town."

It's difficult enough the way it is to keep these session from becoming a sideshow or roadside attraction. Why would I make things worse for myself by making videos and tapes?

Some people probably would, but that's not me.

Edited by IronGhost
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Yes, in this case, the letters come very swiftly -- relatively speaking!

As I have said, in most cases we use a human recorder with pad and paper. In this case, it's simply easiest to use a tape recorder.

I've confronted the video and audio question many times over the years. I've never allowed video, and I never publish tapes, and I don't keep tapes, in any case.

When people ask me why, I now always say: "I'm not goin' down to Guru town."

It's difficult enough the way it is to keep these session from becoming a sideshow or roadside attraction. Why would I make things worse for myself by making videos and tapes?

Some people probably would, but that's not me.

I only asked because you stated yourself you recorded them...I have my answer :tu:

It is a nice fiction story though , I enjoy it.

Edited by Sakari
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I only asked because you stated yourself you recorded them...I have my answer :tu:

It is a nice fiction story though , I enjoy it.

It's still under speculation whether or not its truth or just a nice story! :) Surely thats what you meant. I don't want some one to start an argument! lol

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Since the man thing entity doesn't want to disclose his/her/it's name, what should we call it, just for simplicity? MTE, short for man thing entity? Since I have a feeling it will pop in every now and then, I suggest giving it a "name" just to differ it from Dr 58 and possible new future entities who might appear later. I suggest calling it MTE if you don't have any better idea.

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It's still under speculation whether or not its truth or just a nice story! :) Surely thats what you meant. I don't want some one to start an argument! lol

:no:

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Fascinating process... I dig it.

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I joined this forum because of this story - one of the most interesting things I have ever read.

I'm very curious as to Dr. 58's knowledge of English. If it is a parallel universe/dimension wouldn't language have evolved differently? He doesn't seem to have much knowledge of many sayings and slang, so maybe it is a slightly different version of English.

Thoughts?

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I found this interesting:

Does Adam remember his dreams?

Not a one! You can imagine then, how utterly bizarre is it for him when we listen to the recordings together in the morning. He hears himself saying wacky things that he has no recollection of whatsoever. Oh well, he's used to it by now.

In fact, since media people keep putting us into rooms with sleep specialists, we have learned that sleep talking does not-- in fact cannot-- occur during dreaming. Dreaming happens during REM sleep, and you are paralyzed then. Sleep talking occurs during the lighter phase of sleep, and it's just sort of the subconscious firing off.

It's been nice to hear all of the sleep specialists in the media confirm that the way Adam talks in his sleep is very possible and, except for how funny he manages to be, quite common.

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