"Panther" sighting in the forest of Dean, UK

[Zero2Hero]

Came across this on the Daily Mail website today

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1279834/Girl-15-tells-terror-stalked-forest-big-cat-claims-PANTHER.html

A 15-year-old schoolgirl has told of her terror after being chased by a big cat she claims was a 'black panther' in the Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire. Kim Howells was enjoying a walk through the woodland on her 15th birthday with her cousin Sophie Gwynne, eight, when they came across the animal lying beneath a tree.

Anticipated responses:

Psyche101- Panther's don't exist

Mattshark- Megalodon doesn't exist

Smugfish- Possibly some form of panther like Hyrax

What do we all make of it?

[Long_Gone]

What's with big cats and UK anyway?. So many articles about phantom cats, big cats etc. I know a few people from the UK, most of them believe in them. Unfortunately I've never been there and am no expert in cats.

I think the answer is...

It was a four-winged dino bird pretending to be a big cat. It's a huge advantage to do so, If you're flying in the air, You get shot at by iraqi frikkin air cannons! but if you're on the ground, You're just shot by normal guns. Less painful. So i go for a four-winger...

Edited May 20, 2010 by Over-Kill

[Nuckelavee]

I'm happy to accept a big cat if the girls were certain that is what they saw, though I think if it is a puma would be more likely than a black panther (which technically doesn't exist, blacl or melanistic leopard/jaguar is the correct name).

However, Over-kill's fool proof theory makes me think otherwise.

[Mattshark]

I'm happy to accept a big cat if the girls were certain that is what they saw, though I think if it is a puma would be more likely than a black panther (which technically doesn't exist, blacl or melanistic leopard/jaguar is the correct name).

However, Over-kill's fool proof theory makes me think otherwise.

I agree Over-Kill has is right.

To be honest, this dubious at best, the influence of the parent and the fact that things like this are very likely to influence individuals reports.

[Boote]

Mrs Howells said she now has doubts about letting her daughter and niece play in the nearby woods.

The girls were walking through the Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire, when they spotted the big cat

She added: 'I used to think that they were much better off there than a public park or somewhere but now I'm not sure, it is a real worry.'

So you believe you daughter saw a big cat in the woods and only have "doubts" and "not sure" about letting them back in O_o? Personally I'd strongly recommend staying away from the woods if there's a chance of being muled by wild animals!

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I'd be happy to operate under the assumption that there is a large cat in the forest on the provision of the presentation of additional facts.

Unusual kill-sites of other, smaller, creatures.

Disappearances of domesticated animals.

Other sightings.

Tracks.

Scats.

Something like that. A sighting warrants investigation though.

If it was a pet that got too large, the forest would be the perfect place for the owners to dump it, and for it to thrive assuming that there are smaller prey animals in the forest (boar? that'd be too dnagerous for a single creature to tackle I think).

[louis_last]

Wether they represent escaped and released pets or something else entirely is up for debate but I don't think anybody can reasonably deny the existence of wild big cats in the UK.

[Pihkal]

I wouldn't be quite that quick to make that assumption Louis. While I am not willing to go as far as to suggest that there has never been any large cats loose in the British countryside, there is very little solid evidence that there is a population which has established a foothold and thrived. Given that the needs of agriculture and our need for housing on our densely populated island has reduced our native wild areas greatly over the past one hundred or so years (a perfect example of this would be to go and look at a map of Rockingham Forest one hundred years ago and then compare it to a map of the same forest today) and that the bill concerning the keeping of big cats was passed in 1976 (I think), the population would not only have to be concentrated into small areas but also be reasonably healthy by now were it to exist. Yet there is very little evidence that this is the case as far as I can see.

There is little evidence of scat being found, positive identification of prey kills by large cats, sightings other than those of the "little bit too far and little bit too out of focus" variety, no corpses found (and Dartmoor and Exmoor are a lot busier than you may think). Nothing to give the impression that these cats are surviving and thriving in these areas and so, while I do not doubt that the occasional illegally kept pet has been released into the wild, I personally doubt that there is a breeding population of large cats anywhere in the UK and, until there is good solid evidence to prove otherwise, shall continue to do so.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Pihkal

[TheSearcher]

The bill concerning the keeping of big cats was passed in 1976, this said, there is a thriving illegal industry in the UK and Europe in general, with big cats and other exotic animals.

A mate of mine, who works for the RSPCA, says that the release into the wild of exotic animals, once they become difficult to keep, is a lot more common than you would think. This does include great cats. He personally was present when they caught some guy releasing his Caracal.

I'm sure the released cats are a definite possibility, but I doubt that there is an actual breeding population present.

[Mr.United_Nations]

No some big cats have been caught red handed, and i have proof

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

No some big cats have been caught red handed, and i have proof

where?

Astounding comments requiring astounding evidence and all that.

[Still Waters]

No some big cats have been caught red handed, and i have proof

What do you mean by 'caught' ?

[Wyrdlight]

Its perfectly possible for a few large cats to be roaming around in various parts of the UK, there are plenty of deer, boar, rabbits and domesticated herdables for a big cat to live off of and a few places where there is enough cover ect for them to hide succesfully. Bear in mind that cats are GOOD at hiding and finding one without trained sniffer dogs would be a nightmare.

[NatureBoff]

Smugfish- Possibly some form of panther like Hyrax

What do we all make of it?

lol but big cats are awash all over the UK you donuts!!

[Long_Gone]

lol but big cats are awash all over the UK you donuts!!

Well well well, Look who has returned.... Welcome back Smugfish!.

What do you mean by 'awash'?..

[Wyrdlight]

Well well well, Look who has returned.... Welcome back Smugfish!.

What do you mean by 'awash'?..

"Awash" is, i belive a sort of coloquial nautical term meaning "covered in, inundated by or submerged in water". As in "Close the Hatches ye dogs! afore the hold be awash with salty water!".

In general it means that a region/area is covered in somthing. To use an example from my home town "Croydon is awash with crime and discontent". :-)

[Long_Gone]

"Awash" is, i belive a sort of coloquial nautical term meaning "covered in, inundated by or submerged in water". As in "Close the Hatches ye dogs! afore the hold be awash with salty water!".

In general it means that a region/area is covered in somthing. To use an example from my home town "Croydon is awash with crime and discontent". :-)

Thanks man .

So i guess according to smugfish, People in the UK swim amongst big cats the way Uncle scrooge swims among gold coins. JK. nevermind.

[Pihkal]

lol but big cats are awash all over the UK you donuts!!

Yes, when I was a child growing up not far from Bodmin Moor, we could barely walk a step without tripping over a large predatory cat. Bothersome it was. In fact my uncle, a landowner, was forever complaining about the Red and Muntjac deer he'd find on his land mauled and eaten by large cats.

No wait....he didn't. In fact the only time he ever remarked up something attacking either the deer which passed through his land or the livestock he kept was when he shot a stray tourist's dog that had been harrassing his sheep, I spent 18 years travelling and exploring the Moors as a child in the way chilrden do and yet never saw anything that could be classified as a large cat and so I can only be led to believe that you are an idiot.

[NatureBoff]

Well well well, Look who has returned.... Welcome back Smugfish!.

What do you mean by 'awash'?..

Thanks. There's been footage of two big cats with two light tan cubs seen on the otherside of a valley. They were visible by a tv camera zoom which showed one adult puma-like cat and another bigger, shaggier black cat which later turned out to be the male. Just the other day in the barbers in my home town, a lady said she saw a labrador-sized panther running away. I've similarly seen a medium size panther from the top deck of a bus on the way to Newquay. Tonight, I'm setting up a trail cam near a hedge-hole which has recently opened right up incidentally, setting it on 30 min video/30 min repeat and leaving it for a few days at least. I'll post the results on you-tube as soon as I can. Wish me luck. Edited May 21, 2010 by Smugfish

[Mattshark]

Thanks. There's been footage of two big cats with two light tan cubs seen on the otherside of a valley. They were visible by a tv camera zoom which showed one adult puma-like cat and another bigger, shaggier black cat which later turned out to be the male. Just the other day in the barbers in my home town, a lady said she saw a labrador-sized panther running away. I've similarly seen a medium size panther from the top deck of a bus on the way to Newquay. Tonight, I'm setting up a trail cam near a hedge-hole which has recently opened right up incidentally, setting it on 30 min video/30 min repeat and leaving it for a few days at least. I'll post the results on you-tube as soon as I can. Wish me luck.

Where? It is nice that you make claims but claims are worthless.

[Long_Gone]

Where? It is nice that you make claims but claims are worthless.

Hey wait up matt, He just may shock the world this time.

Goodluck smug, I hope you find whatever makes you fancy.

[NatureBoff]

Where? It is nice that you make claims but claims are worthless.

It was Devon or Wales I think. There's loads of examples, you're just too ignorant to except the BBC reports imo BBC NEWS | UK | England | Devon | SW claws to top of big cats list. Watch the VIDEO!!! It's the milder winters of course for the South West.

[louis_last]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8162091.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/4830320.stm

Here is a couple of topical articles from the BBC.

and an interesting quote from 'big cats in britain'

The hideout theory: could some British big cats be a result of a relict population that never died out?

There is much folklore and historical accounts of people seeing black creatures in Britain, and much legend surrounding the black dog. Many descriptions of the black dog resemble feline forms.

There have been sightings well before the possible releases resulting from the 1976 Dangerous Wild Animals Act. Explanations for these previous sightings include released and escaped puma mascots used by American air force crew, and escapes from travelling Victorian menageries.

It was suggested that a relict population such as European leopard is very unlikely.

Is there evidence from Exmoor of a relict cat population?

Wolves were seen off by humans in Britain, suggesting any big cats would have been.

Was there sufficient forest and deer across Britain for a relict population of big cats?

European wild cat has died out in Britain but is retained in Scotland, although occasional sightings of wild cat do occur in England and Wales.

It was suggested that the degree of game-keeping, hunting and trapping across Britain in the past would have eradicated any existing cat species. But, it was also suggested that some private estates could have provided a refuge for the population being hunted, as happened for roe deer.

Could a small-med black cat of some type have existed in Scotland � why is such a cat depicted on emblems of some clans?

Could lynx have survived for much longer in some remote and extreme places in Britain? Although need to recognise that places seen as remote and extreme were inhabited and were the locations of primary industry in the past.

[Nuckelavee]

Lynx became extinct in Britain too long ago to be surviving in pockets of Britain whilst remaining relativley unseen from the outside world: about 400AD. I do believe there are some exotic cats in Britain, but perhaps coming from a wide spur of illegal throughout the years rather than a breeding pool kicked off in 1976.

[Zero2Hero]

It's always Black "Panthers" isn't it? I wonder why? Is it just these reports that get picked up or are all the mystery big cats out there melanistic? If there was inbreeding in a small population would this cause the gene for melanism to be more readily expressed?

Edited May 21, 2010 by Wesker115