Obama Sides With Mexico Against Arizona

[joshsluss]

I don't think that, that is up to you to decide.

Much like your grasp of the word illegal, eh?

He's the new Jonas Brother.

The word illegal I'm very much aware of, I was speaking about the violent criminals that rape and murder which was pointed out by someone earlier in the posting session. Wise up anime boy.

[joshsluss]

Technically speaking, it's far different. A traffic ticket is a violation of a state or city traffic law. Crossing a border illegally into another country is a violation of that country's sovereignty (and federal law), which is supposed to big deal. It should be a big deal, but with 20 million illegals in the country, or however many there are, its obviously not that big a deal to Washington.

Lol well no sh** it's technically different. I'm saying that's about the severity I compare it to.

Boy America sure hates it's illegals.

[Neognosis]

It's not greedy to SAVE money... lol...

It is when you are buying cheap crap you don't really need at the expense of the american economy. Not only is it greedy, it is self destructive. Congratulations on "saving" 3 dollars because you bought a Chinese piece of garbage instead of spending 3 more dollars on something american made. Enjoy spending SIX dollars more to fill your gas tank because now china has the means to buy the oil we used to buy, driving up the price. Well done.

[el midgetron]

We can't even maintain our own.

Right, so adding thousands of undocumented workers is your solution? ...... Try finishing high school before you try to save the world......

[Ignus Fatuus]

Obama's never gonna get another 4 years at this rate. lol

The United States of America will never get another 4 years at this rate!!! "lol" ... only in insanity

[J.B.]

We'd better hold together. The dissolution of the U.S. of A is exactly what the terrorists who hit us wanted. Our war'd be for nothing if we broke apart.

[danielost]

We'd better hold together. The dissolution of the U.S. of A is exactly what the terrorists who hit us wanted. Our war'd be for nothing if we broke apart.

that's what the terrorists want but they havent thought it through. no country on the planet wants the usa to fail. when we fail they fail.

[-MiDAS-]

Americans and Mexicans will all eventually try to invade Canada.

Maybe not invade as in rush our nations, but if you were smart, you'd start filtering here where the farmland is moving more and more north, providing jobs and nutrition.

[danielost]

Americans and Mexicans will all eventually try to invade Canada.

Maybe not invade as in rush our nations, but if you were smart, you'd start filtering here where the farmland is moving more and more north, providing jobs and nutrition.

your right we should invade canada and push the current canadians into the arctic ocean. lol.

[AROCES]

Long before illegal immigration? I'm 24 and don't remember a time before illegal immigration. I remember illegals in northeast Texas doing all the work. That's right, TEXAS.

It's a cop out to blame the illegals for the slow economy. IT'S NOT TRUE. They have NOTHING to do with it. It's just that all the sudden the real jobs are have been slow and now some of us must go back to diggin ditches and nursery work but guess what, the illegals have been doing this work FOR YEARS and NOOOW you want them to go. NOW it is convenient. What a bunch of crap this society lives in.

Anyone who is for sending illegals home should be vacuumed packed and sent to Mexico to work in a factory. We'll see how fast they come gunning for the border LMAO.

So Calderon, Obama and you wants Mexico's unskilled and less educated population to move here for jobs, easy solution to Mexico's problem really.

[danielost]

So Calderon, Obama and you wants Mexico's unskilled and less educated population to move here for jobs, easy solution to Mexico's problem really.

i dont mind mexicos unskilled and less educated population moving here for work. what i mind is them coming here illegally when it is easy for them to do it legally.

[Paranormalcy]

I've cleaned up posts in this thread a little. I'm going to say this and those who are paying attention will adjust their posting wisely.

There is no need for name calling and focusing on other posters themselves. You can disagree with other people's ideologies or opinions without smarmy remarks and insults.

This is the situation: because the things getting peppered into this thread are so extreme for a simple debate, I'm going to moderate the same way - every time I see an uncivil comment from one person to another, I'm going to give the poster a formal warning. I'm curious to see how common the sarcastic remarks are.

[new2forum]

I agree with this. If they're coming here legally, fine with that. The law exists for a reason. To filter out the criminals primarily. Bypass this process and we're getting far more of the thugs, gang bangers, drug runners, etc. Which is exactly why many of these people are bypassing the system, they know they'd never get in.

I see nothing wrong with enforcing our laws, and keeping the criminals out. I mean, if your first act in a new country is to break the law (Entering illegally) - Talk about getting started on the wrong foot!

i dont mind mexicos unskilled and less educated population moving here for work. what i mind is them coming here illegally when it is easy for them to do it legally.

[new2forum]

Not so. Please stop with the blanket assumptions and passing of judgment. See, the two may be at first glance "low" on the severity scale as you mentioned. But if you examine the WHY behind the crime, then you'll see why your comparison falls apart.

See, I'd consider opening a door I'm not supposed to enter as a very minor infraction. But if I go to someones home (A stranger) and open their front door an walk in - Well, this is now a much more severe crime!

Why? What's the big deal? All I did was open a door? It's the intent. Most likely, you're not going to walk into a strangers home without an intent. That intent is likely theft, rape, murder, etc. In the same way, a large percentage of those entering this country illegally do so because they are convicted criminals, and know they will not be allowed in. Many come here to avoid prison in fact. Even more come here to run drugs etc.

See? Intent. Once again, it is not as black and white as you suggest, and you're condemning more people (Your statement below) without looking at the full picture. This is a serious problem for America, and you cannot just write it off as racism, or "wanting someone to blame."

10:35 PM' timestamp='1274394954' post='3421908']

Lol well no sh** it's technically different. I'm saying that's about the severity I compare it to.

Boy America sure hates it's illegals.

[new2forum]

You seem to think that every illegal immigrant here is a criminal.

lol - Irony. I think another poster already saved me from responding to this one.

You are not living in the real world if you truly believe this.

Never said anything about violence now did I?

The FACT is there are a lot of good illegal immigrants who do the work and care about family. To send them back after they have created a new life is against human decency.

But denying others the same opportunity is ok with you... Is that what you're saying? I fail to see a clear distinction here. I honestly don't get your logic on why one you're ok with, but the other you're not. They are both still attempting to violate our laws. If you violate a law, then YOU, the person committing the crime know there is a chance you'll be caught, and you chose to take the chance.

Now you're claiming it's "against human decency" to ask those people to pay the consequences when they knowingly broke the law? In effect what you're saying is that people shouldn't be held responsible for their own actions just because they managed to build a good life for themselves?

Had they respected our lives, and entered LEGALLY the first time around, they wouldn't be in this situation now would they? But instead, what you're recommending is that we send a message to people that it's ok you've broken our law! You will not be held accountable for your actions!

Not the message I'd want to send. Not to mention, the majority of these people do not pay taxes, nearly half are on welfare, and a huge percentage of them are using our school systems, emergency rooms, etc.

In other words, taking, while giving nothing. Placing the burden on our tax payers. Not even close to being fair. It goes against human decency in my opinion to break antoehr countries laws an leech off the people.

If you commit a crime here, do the time here.

If a person is trying to come across and they can't... well... then that's on THEM to figure out what to do with themselves.

[Neognosis]

I don't think it is as easy to legally emigrate as some of you seem to think.

[new2forum]

And?

I fail to see the point. I already know it can be a lengthy process... So what? It should be!

Me paying payroll taxes, a corporation entity, running a business, managing my people, marketing, sales, researching new products... None of that is easy either? In fact, it can take up 80 - 90 hours per week of my life. And??? If I want to reap the rewards badly enough, then I'll do it.

Should I use "it's difficult" as an excuse to not pay my taxes, and to start robbing banks? Honestly, I hear this statement all the time, yet I've never once heard a legit argument made out of it. It's a declarative statement with nothing else added. What are the implications of what you've just said.

I don't think it is as easy to legally emigrate as some of you seem to think.

[Neognosis]

The implications are that because it is very difficult for an unskilled, uneducated mexican to come here legally, they just come here illegally. Because they can make some money here.

so, like I said, if we confiscate the businesses of anyone who knowingly hires an illegal, or fails to adequately check on a worker's status, then we would eliminate the reason that they are coming here. If we confiscated the home and property of those who hire illegals to work in their homes, we would eliminate the reason they are coming here.

But nobody seems to like this idea, because too many people are complaining about illegal immigration, yet hiring illegals.

[new2forum]

Is not Arizona cracking down on this? Everyone wants to complain about those complaining about the illegals, yet this is exactly what Arizona is doing - Punishing those who are caught hiring illegals.

Sure, immigrating can be difficult, but unlike what you've claimed above, this is not the only reason people choose to bypass the legal process. Many times, it's because they are criminals, and know that they will not be allowed entry. Look at the statistics.

Regardless, something being "difficult" does not make it ok to disregard the law.

I do think that confiscating property and home is a bit on the extreme side for being caught hiring illegals. I mean come on - Talk about overkill! On one side, we have the left complaining that it's "against human decency" to send someone to their native home when they're caught breaking our laws, but then on the other, we have recommendations to confiscate entire businesses, plus home and property of companies caught hiring illegals?

Uhhhhh... You realize these people have families right? Is this really the right thing to do? How about the employee's (Legal)? Not just anyone can run a business properly, expert or not. I'm thinking you have not thought this one through?

Punished? Yes... Taking business and home? No... Far too severe. Fines, jail time, etc... All of that is understandable. But stealing businesses and homes is flat out wrong in my opinion.

The implications are that because it is very difficult for an unskilled, uneducated mexican to come here legally, they just come here illegally. Because they can make some money here.

so, like I said, if we confiscate the businesses of anyone who knowingly hires an illegal, or fails to adequately check on a worker's status, then we would eliminate the reason that they are coming here. If we confiscated the home and property of those who hire illegals to work in their homes, we would eliminate the reason they are coming here.

But nobody seems to like this idea, because too many people are complaining about illegal immigration, yet hiring illegals.

[Harte]

You seem to think that every illegal immigrant here is a criminal. You are not living in the real world if you truly believe this.

Do yourself a favor and consult a dictionary on the definitions of "illegal" and "criminal." Once you do, perhaps (hopefully) you'll realize that every single alien living illegally in the United States is a criminal, by the very definitions I asked you to check.

The statement I quoted above (by you) is oxymoronic enough to be laughable. But it's not laughable. Why? Because it is sooo sad that somebody could so blithely reveal the utter depths of their own ignorance and continue on completely unaware.

Harte

[Neognosis]

I do think that confiscating property and home is a bit on the extreme side for being caught hiring illegals. I mean come on - Talk about overkill!

Do you want to solve the problem or not? If the problem is as severe and serious as some of you are claiming, I don't think confiscation of property and/or businesses (put them up for sale to someone who will not break the law by hiring illegals) is not too severe. Nobody forces you to hire illegals.. if you want to keep your home and/or business, don't knowingly hire illegals.

[new2forum]

"Do you want to solve the problem or not?"

That's not an answer to the problems I posted above. Your statement/question here assumes that only your method will work, and none others will. Faulty assumption.

"If the problem is as severe and serious as some of you are claiming, I don't think confiscation of property and/or businesses (put them up for sale to someone who will not break the law by hiring illegals) is not too severe."

As I am claiming? Uh, no claims, you can look up the stats yourself, or use my sources posted in this, and other threads if you like.

So you are proposing that we give the government sweeping new powers to barge into your privately owned property and snatch homes away from families? Really? I think there's a word for such power, and it's called dictatorship. Great job starting a whole new problem while claiming to solve another!

So what happens when you have LLC's? S-Corps, public businesses? How you propose we work that one out?

Again, what you've proposed here is a non-solution.

Nobody forces you to hire illegals.. if you want to keep your home and/or business, don't knowingly hire illegals.

Punishment should fit the crime, and punish those who committed it. Slipping in to take a business which impacts hundreds of people, and stealing their home from their families (Which may only be partly owned by the business owner - You know, marriage, etc, all those pesky details) - Your proposal makes no sense, and is borderline Tyranny... So what I say, or else I'll destroy your life, your business, take your home, and the home of your family.... Punish everyone for the mistake of one persons decision... Sorry, you'll need to put that one in the oven a bit more!

Edited May 21, 2010 by new2forum

[eqgumby]

It's not greedy to SAVE money... lol...

I can tell by your posts you have NO idea whats really going on.

Look...they are ILLEGAL and breaking the law JUST BY BEING HERE!

They DO NOT pay into the same social system everyone else does via their paychecks.

They do NOT deserve to be put in a US jail at TAXPAYER expense if they commit a crime here. They should go to a MEXICAN jail. Go look up the difference between US and Mexican prisons.

It IS GREEDY to save money by hiring illegal aliens. You take money out of the "system" when you do that. There is a reason it is ILLEGAL to hire ILLEGAL aliens or to even pay someone a salary under the table.

If a person comes to this country illegally, works here iillegally, drives illegally, basically EXISTS here illegally, I don't care what you say, they should be deported or apply for citizenship.

[The Silver Thong]

This isn't about Obama siding with Mexico. It's Obama agreeing with Mexico that Arizona's new law is unconstitutional and it is. One can't look at a persons clothing or skin color or haircut and demand papers. Am I off base here as I'm out of practice LOL

[eqgumby]

What happened to squatter's rights(it was the American way)? They build a new life, have kids born here, never break the law...there needs to be some statute of limitations on border crossing. If they had waited in line forever they might have missed their chance of a lifetime.

And then the Governor quickly outlaws ethnic studied that promote solidarity, making it impossible to honestly say her az agenda is not racist. But that's another issue.

No, what's racist is having "ethnic" studies that are designed to do nothing but promote a pro-racial agenda in any direction.

Squatters rights my ass. How is it so difficult to get ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL?

So if I sneak into a country, get a fake ID, make a baby or two, and live there "off the grid", never contributing to taxes, putting my "baby-mamma" on the local welfare system, etc etc, I should be granted a social security card and citizenship for HIDING and BREAKING THE LAW for a set amount of time? Sounds great...