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THE MATRIX

GOP again attacking Gays in the Military

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THE MATRIX



REP. LOUIE GOHMERT (R-TX): “If someone has to be overt about their sexuality, whether it’s in a bunker where they’re confined under fire, then it’s a problem. And that’s what repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell does. It says, ‘I have to be overt, I don’t care. I want this to be a social experiment.”

REP: TODD AKIN (R-MI): “So are we then going to then protect and condone homosexuality in the military?…Is this the sort of thing that George Washington or our founders would be proud of, that we are doing today in this quick flash before Memorial Day?”

REP. TRENT FRANKS (R-AZ): “We’re going to say, ‘No. We don’t care what you say. You can die for us on the battlefield, but you have no input into this process.’ That’s a disgrace to this institution and it’s an insult to the men and women who pour out their blood on foreign battlefields for the country that we all love so much.”

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Gwynbleidd

I for one prefer to treat everyone as if they're green. That way, no religion, political view, sexual orientation etc comes into the equation. :tu:

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Ryinrea

Jackass,

Just another biblethumper zealot who can't accept that they are people who serve their country with pride, and don't want to be imprisoned because of their sexuality.

And I also want too say the people that want data repelled aren't a small minatory. I am ashamed that two of the persons in this film above are from Texas.

All I can say is, if you want too go live in a place that is run by the church go make yourself a theocracy.

Edited by Ryinrea

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Pseudo Intellectual

Well, to be honest with you, I want DADT to stay, but this is really none of our business. I don't see why politicians are making these decisions. It should be left to the military. If the troops want DADT gone, it should go. I think, last time I checked, they don't.

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Ryinrea

Well, to be honest with you, I want DADT to stay, but this is really none of our business. I don't see why politicians are making these decisions. It should be left to the military. If the troops want DADT gone, it should go. I think, last time I checked, they don't.

So 13,000 people are discharged, because they are gay? Don't we need those solders? And what you say is bull, because 73% of military personal are comfortable with people Sexuality.

Here is the 73% statistic for the military.

MORE PEOPLE HAVE SUPPORTED THE LIFTING OF THE BAN

Also from Gallup

qjdduvx6le2pbpyyopebha.gif

SATITICS

The fact that people that are being discharged are falling is something also.

GuideChart.jpg

Edited by Ryinrea

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Pseudo Intellectual

Okay... I don't see the point of those statistics... But I was referring to this:

Most active-duty service members continue to oppose President-elect Barack Obama’s campaign pledge to end the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy to allow gays to serve openly in the military, a Military Times survey shows.

Moreover, if the policy was repealed, nearly 10 percent of respondents said they would not re-enlist or extend their service, and 14 percent said they would consider terminating their careers after serving their obligated tours.

Army Capt. Steven J. Lacy, a logistician assigned to the 71st Transportation Battalion at Fort Eustis, Va., said he is very concerned about the policy being repealed.

“I think a lot of people are,” Lacy said. “In the field environment, you’re in very close proximity to one another. The fact that someone could be openly gay could exacerbate stress on teams and small units when you’re already at a high stress level.”

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Halfwolf

I am a conservative who has no problem with Gay's who want to serve in the Military. I do have some questions that I have never heard argued. 1. Do we have to supply different Barracks ? If so that will cost lot's of money that we don't have. 2. Why is it important to flaunt your sexuality ?

I for one would be uncomfortable taking showers in front of Gay men. Just as I would be uncomfortable showering if woman were in the room. (I am shy). I have friends who are Gay both men and women, I can socialize and work with I just don't want to get naked in front of. Call me a prude.

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Startraveler

I love when someone argues that this would be some bold experiment with logistics we can't even begin to figure out. Contrary to popular belief, when it comes to policy we're really not all that innovative anymore. When we do something new, someone else has usually done it first. In this case, we'd just be joining a long list of nations that allow gays to serve openly in their military: Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bermuda, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Romania, Russia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, and Uruguay.

This is not uncharted territory.

Edited by Startraveler

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supervike

Uruguay.

ha ha ur a gay.....

Sorry...couldn't resist a little Homer Simpson humor there...

Please carry on, folks.

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eqgumby

I'm prior military.

As long as professionalism can be maintained, I'm just ambivalent. I say "Who cares?" As far as the logistics of it goes...I just don't think it's an issue, until we get into the benefits and pay issues. Figure that out, then carry the hell on I say.

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Ryinrea

Okay... I don't see the point of those statistics... But I was referring to this:

yOU failed

However, 71 percent of respondents said they would continue to serve if the policy was overturned.

------------------------

and also this

Moreover, if the policy was repealed, nearly 10 percent of respondents said they would not re-enlist or extend their service, and 14 percent said they would consider terminating their careers after serving their obligated tours.

That is hardly everyone in the military Pi

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Ryinrea

And the fact it coast $360 million in tax payer funds to have this stupid law on the books. Three quarters of Americans have said they want people to server openly in the military

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Alien Being

And the fact it coast $360 million in tax payer funds to have this stupid law on the books. Three quarters of Americans have said they want people to server openly in the military

I think its should be made illegal.

Edited by Alien Being

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eqgumby

I think its should be made illegal.

What should be illegal?

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Heru

I dont hate homosexuals but my post may sound like it but just hear me out.

When I was in the military we had 2 gay men in our company. One was a normal average guy the other one was a fruit(to me fruity has nothing to do with sexuality just how you conduct urself). We all knew they were gay and no they didnt tell and we didnt ask. Well they started sleeping together and then the drama started. The fruity one statred spreading rumors about my friend that he liked this guy and that guy and he was wathing them in the shower. Well my bunk mate wanted to kick his @ss but I stoped him. But everyone treated him differently after the rumors started.

The thing about dont ask dont tell that civys dont understand is. We know each other, When you spend that much together and even though someone trys to hide something you just know. And it works out cause you know the person instead of him being a stranger whose "gay".

Dont ask dont tell is more than just I dont wanna know if your gay. Its we dont ask you ur sexual orientation and you dont tell us cause its not important, its irrelevant to us.

It should be the militarys call if they should keep Dont ask dont tell not politicians. Yes homosexuality is used some times to kick someone out (I have never seen it) but so are alot of other BS. But no one cares cause there not Gay. Trust me someone would have found another way to kick them out. You cant force someone to accept something. The ole "lead a horse to water" saying comes to mind.

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eqgumby

I dont hate homosexuals but my post may sound like it but just hear me out.

When I was in the military we had 2 gay men in our company. One was a normal average guy the other one was a fruit(to me fruity has nothing to do with sexuality just how you conduct urself). We all knew they were gay and no they didnt tell and we didnt ask. Well they started sleeping together and then the drama started. The fruity one statred spreading rumors about my friend that he liked this guy and that guy and he was wathing them in the shower. Well my bunk mate wanted to kick his @ss but I stoped him. But everyone treated him differently after the rumors started.

The thing about dont ask dont tell that civys dont understand is. We know each other, When you spend that much together and even though someone trys to hide something you just know. And it works out cause you know the person instead of him being a stranger whose "gay".

Dont ask dont tell is more than just I dont wanna know if your gay. Its we dont ask you ur sexual orientation and you dont tell us cause its not important, its irrelevant to us.

It should be the militarys call if they should keep Dont ask dont tell not politicians. Yes homosexuality is used some times to kick someone out (I have never seen it) but so are alot of other BS. But no one cares cause there not Gay. Trust me someone would have found another way to kick them out. You cant force someone to accept something. The ole "lead a horse to water" saying comes to mind.

I can see your point here.

I knew a female in the Military, and a rumor got around that earned her a nickname. Now, this nickname alone could have gotten her discharged, and when she was confronted about it, with a claim that it effected her ability to serve, she legally sought out the source of the rumor. Turns out, that a few threats of ending a few 20 year careers with a tour at Fort Leavenworth loosened some tongues. When confronted, the male member was reminded that if indeed this woman had performed this sex act on him, HE was in a world of trouble. Now, when the woman was confronted with that same question, needed the act defined for her...she felt pretty naive from what I heard...when it was explained to her, by an 0-6 (I would have PAID to hear that!) she actually SCREAMED in shock, and said, I quote, "Are you f*ki*% kidding me!?" :lol: Then, proceeded to call the accuse an assortment of names, in an absolute rage! Turns out, she was innocent, and the guy was just talking some trash.

Point is, rumors can happen anywhere, between anyone. Gay or not, true or not. It's all about good order and discipline. Not who's bangin' who.

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Agent X

That's why I hate gossip and rumors and never engage in it.

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venqax

This is not uncharted territory.

Well, it really kind of is. The difference between our military and most of the other Western ones referrenced are that ours actually fight. Engages in combat. A better comparison between most of the cited armies would be with the Peace Corps, or Salvation Army, or some other humanitarian aid group. Most all of the people who make the argument in favor of gays openly serving know absolutely nothinig about the military, military culture, or military psychology. The military does, and is perfectly capable of governing itself regarding these internal matters. The fact is, since we really don't know what the ramifications of repeal would be, then we should not do it. Why take any chances at all, fixing a system not broken? What would the benefits of such a repeal be? We know that 3 out of 4 in now don't want it. Why would we want to even risk foulilng up the only part of the fed govt that actually works, out of some childish notion of "fairness"? I'm not okay with failure, just so long as everyone gets to express themselves. Not with stakes this high. You can't be in the military if you're too short, either. Or retarded. Or paralyzed, or too old, or contagious. The military isn't a public welfare program.

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The Silver Thong

This is not uncharted territory.

Well, it really kind of is. The difference between our military and most of the other Western ones referrenced are that ours actually fight. Engages in combat. A better comparison between most of the cited armies would be with the Peace Corps, or Salvation Army, or some other humanitarian aid group. Most all of the people who make the argument in favor of gays openly serving know absolutely nothinig about the military, military culture, or military psychology. The military does, and is perfectly capable of governing itself regarding these internal matters. The fact is, since we really don't know what the ramifications of repeal would be, then we should not do it. Why take any chances at all, fixing a system not broken? What would the benefits of such a repeal be? We know that 3 out of 4 in now don't want it. Why would we want to even risk foulilng up the only part of the fed govt that actually works, out of some childish notion of "fairness"? I'm not okay with failure, just so long as everyone gets to express themselves. Not with stakes this high. You can't be in the military if you're too short, either. Or retarded. Or paralyzed, or too old, or contagious. The military isn't a public welfare program.

So America is all alone in the fighting eh :rolleyes: not a very nice way to talk about your allies fighting side by side don't ya think.

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Startraveler

The Israeli army is analogous to the Peace Corps? I wonder, has the triple facepalm been developed yet?

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venqax

So America is all alone in the fighting eh :rolleyes: not a very nice way to talk about your allies fighting side by side don't ya think.

If they were fighting side-by-side maybe it would be. But with a couple exceptions, like the Brits, the other countries limit their militaries to non-combatant support functions. In Iraq, as you recall, most of them didn't come at all. So America is almost alone in the fighting. If you knew anything about military matters, you would know all this very well.

Edited by venqax

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venqax

I can't speak to the Israelis, but for the other Western, mostly NATO countries, see above. Anyway, the point of that is simply that because the militaries of Austria and Malta (I don't think they even have a military)do this in no way makes it relevant to us, or an institution like the US Armed Forces. The Isaelis probably fight without pork patty MRE's too. We're not Israelis. The big point is, there is no reason to do this. None. The military is functioning just fine. There is no reason to tamper with it just to make some ideological point. I want a military that is effective. I don't care in the least if hurts some peoples' feelings.

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Pseudo Intellectual

yOU failed

------------------------

and also this

That is hardly everyone in the military Pi

Of course the majority would continue to serve. The question here is, “Do they want DADT to stay?”, not, “Will they stay in the military if DADT was repealed?”

Most active-duty service members continue to oppose President-elect Barack Obama’s campaign pledge to end the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy to allow gays to serve openly in the military, a Military Times survey shows.

I highlighted the relevant parts for you.

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Alien Being

Of course the majority would continue to serve. The question here is, “Do they want DADT to stay?”, not, “Will they stay in the military if DADT was repealed?”

I highlighted the relevant parts for you.

There are many differant groups in society all fighting to have their way imposed on other people. One such group are those that think we should all accept homosexuality and believe there is nothing wrong with it.

Well I hate to point this out but times change. The last 10-20 years may have favoured them but theres nothing to stop society going right wing on us in the next 10-20 years. What happens to those who have been foolish to adopt the gay lifestyle then?

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Halfwolf

I wonder how many people said they were Gay just to get out of service. I know a couple of guys that did it and I have no respect for them at all.

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