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THE MATRIX

GOP again attacking Gays in the Military

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Ryinrea

Of course the majority would continue to serve. The question here is, “Do they want DADT to stay?”, not, “Will they stay in the military if DADT was repealed?”

I highlighted the relevant parts for you.

Weird, because from what I got from that would be that they don't give a crap about it. Not that the majority aren't in favor of lifting the ban. So how is that the majority are opposed too it? :huh: I am confused a little as too why they say 10% equals majority.

And also in the article. Plus the fact I see only one top official saying he wants to stay the same

104 admirals, and GENERALS think we should end it That hardly means the majority

Segal described the nearly 10 percent of active-duty respondents who said they would leave the military if the policy was overturned as “a relatively small number.”

More than 100 generals call for lifting the ban

Edited by Ryinrea

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Pseudo Intellectual

I'm not sure if you're intentionally ignoring and twisting what I said. Let me repeat:

Most active-duty service members continue to oppose President-elect Barack Obama’s campaign pledge to end the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy to allow gays to serve openly in the military, a Military Times survey shows.

And by "the military", I was referring to the people in the military, not the generals and admirals only. But now that you mention it, did you know the Commandant of the Marine Corps opposes repealing DADT?

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ninjadude

Can I posit that the military serves at the discretion of the civilian population? And that since an overwhelming majority support repeal of DADT, they need to figure out how to make it happen.

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Pseudo Intellectual

Does this mean the military should go ahead and attack Iran? After all, the majority of Americans do support military action to destroy Iran's nuclear weapons program.

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Rhomphaia

The Israeli army is analogous to the Peace Corps? I wonder, has the triple facepalm been developed yet?

Yeah, I got a chuckle when I read that too.

I mean come on, the Peace Corps really go around inventing hand to hand combat styles that utilize hand grenades as melee weapons, don't they?

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Paracelse

If they were fighting side-by-side maybe it would be. But with a couple exceptions, like the Brits, the other countries limit their militaries to non-combatant support functions. In Iraq, as you recall, most of them didn't come at all. So America is almost alone in the fighting. If you knew anything about military matters, you would know all this very well.

I don't know where you get your data from, last year 11 French Soldiers died IN combat and 3 this year to date... is it what you call support. Yet France has only 10 000 troupes in Afghanistan. And among them there ought to be few gays.... as a former military, I would say that working with gay never bugged me... being a$$ grabbed would of.. but it never happen.

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rashore

I'm not sure what being gay or not has to do with doing the job of a soldier... I may be mistaken about this, but isn't anyone banging anyone sort of frowned upon in the military? Like a general "don't dip your pen in the company inkwell" sort of thing?

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Alien Being

I'm not sure what being gay or not has to do with doing the job of a soldier... I may be mistaken about this, but isn't anyone banging anyone sort of frowned upon in the military? Like a general "don't dip your pen in the company inkwell" sort of thing?

I wouldnt want a gay solider sleeping in the same barracks as me or using the same shower as me or eating at the same table or on duty in the same trench.

I find it discusting and surreal about whats happening in American society. You guys have lost the plot. The Liberal Extremists have not only taken over your society but they are bending your people one by one to their kind of thinking.

Edited by Alien Being

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Agent X

Yes it's better to have Conservative extremists forcing everybody to own a firearm and go to church on Sundays than liberal extremists who want to get rid of the firearms and to be a socialist.

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venqax

I'm not sure what being gay or not has to do with doing the job of a soldier...

And that speaks volumes. Virtually no one arguing in favor of the change has any idea what the job of a soldier is about. But 7 or so out 10 soldiers (and sailors, airmen, and marines) seem to know. So why mess with the policy as is is? Just say whatever gay personnel their are now can "express" themselves?

Heres's question outside this whole box: If you were gay, why would want anyone who was not also gay, to know it?

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The Silver Thong

If they were fighting side-by-side maybe it would be. But with a couple exceptions, like the Brits, the other countries limit their militaries to non-combatant support functions. In Iraq, as you recall, most of them didn't come at all. So America is almost alone in the fighting. If you knew anything about military matters, you would know all this very well.

Thank you for posting your ignorance. As far a military matters go, you have no clue. If America wants to start a BS war why should others be dragged into it. I would rather have 10 gay dedicated soldiers in my unit than an arm chair moron general tryin to tell me a gay guy can't save my life better then a streight guy that is a bigot.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Alien Being

Thank you for posting your ignorance. As far a military matters go, you have no clue. If America wants to start a BS war why should others be dragged into it. I would rather have 10 gay dedicated soldiers in my unit than an arm chair moron general tryin to tell me a gay guy can't save my life better then a streight guy that is a bigot.

It dreadens me to think of some camp gay guy running around the battlefield. Imagine what the Taliban would do to them if they caught a few?

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The Silver Thong

It dreadens me to think of some camp gay guy running around the battlefield. Imagine what the Taliban would do to them if they caught a few?

You mean the taliban kill gays differently? Rockets, bombs and bullets do not discriminate. What would you do if a gay guy saved your life?

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venqax

Silver, I come from a military family and I work with the military every day. So stop being stoopid. Whether or not you think the war is BS is irelevant, the point it they aren't doing much fighting. Stick to a point, please. I never said gays can't be good soldiers. I don't think anyone said that. Whether they can or can't be isn't the question. The question is about their being openly gay, and how that affects other things. If you can't keep up, don't try.

Edited by venqax

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venqax

Big block quote:

"Canada, which along with Britain, the US and the Netherlands, is one of only four Nato countries engaged in fighting in southern Afghanistan, has threatened to pull out unless other countries join in.

There has been particular criticism aimed at Germany, Italy and France for keeping their forces in the north of the country, away from the hard fighting in the south which has claimed dozens of British lives.

[The US Secretary of State] stated, "Our populations need to understand this is not a peacekeeping operation. This is a counter-insurgency fight and it's tough."

Mr Brown told MPs yesterday that he wanted other countries to provide troops and equipment, especially helicopters, to help fight the Taliban.He said the Nato summit in April should ensure that burden sharing "is fair".

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512599/Brown-urges-NATO-allies-help-Afghanistan-pledges-British-troops.html#ixzz0pMraQkBF

Just a small example of the many, many words written and stated over the years about the lack of combat help from most NATO countries. Not even us complaining, but the Brits and Canadians who were actually helping. All of which seems to have been missed by some on here. Maybe it was always being reported during "American Idol" or "Housewives of New Jersey" or something important like that. It's not exactly a secret.Even the Obi One has complained about the unwillingness of the "allies" to do any heavy lifting. Pay attention, there are wars going on.

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Ryinrea

I'm not sure if you're intentionally ignoring and twisting what I said. Let me repeat:

And by "the military", I was referring to the people in the military, not the generals and admirals only. But now that you mention it, did you know the Commandant of the Marine Corps opposes repealing DADT?

Cough I was too

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Pseudo Intellectual

I meant the last part of your post. You were talking about generals and admirals. I clarified that I was speaking of the regular soldiers as well.

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Paranormalcy

Alien Being - I've removed some of and some things related to some of your posts. Refamiliarize yourself with UM's policy on acceptable behavior. To other posters - please do not respond to Alien Being's earlier posts - do not derail this thread, keep the topic itself, do not focus on other posters.

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The Silver Thong

Silver, I come from a military family and I work with the military every day. So stop being stoopid. Whether or not you think the war is BS is irelevant, the point it they aren't doing much fighting. Stick to a point, please. I never said gays can't be good soldiers. I don't think anyone said that. Whether they can or can't be isn't the question. The question is about their being openly gay, and how that affects other things. If you can't keep up, don't try.

Fine then you are anti gay and don't want gays in the military LOL your military is strained to the point that they should be looking at recruiting anything with a heart beat. Then you went and said gays could be good soldiers and what not all the while calling me stooopid for not sticking to the issue while you go off on a pro American rant about how good the war is and such. Talk about stooopid LOL

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DieChecker

I am a conservative who has no problem with Gay's who want to serve in the Military. I do have some questions that I have never heard argued. 1. Do we have to supply different Barracks ? If so that will cost lot's of money that we don't have. 2. Why is it important to flaunt your sexuality ?

The "On Post" barracks usually are 2 to a room, with men and women in the same building anyway. So no new buildings would need to be built on US military posts. In the field everyone is forced to live together in close quarters and here some people would have a problem. But, those same people could very well have a problem showering in front of anyone.

I think the gays should be given seperate rooms, just as men and women get seperate rooms.

The thing about dont ask dont tell that civys dont understand is. We know each other, When you spend that much together and even though someone trys to hide something you just know. And it works out cause you know the person instead of him being a stranger whose "gay".

Dont ask dont tell is more than just I dont wanna know if your gay. Its we dont ask you ur sexual orientation and you dont tell us cause its not important, its irrelevant to us.

We had two very apparent gay men in my Headquarters company in Germany back in 94-95. And no one gave them a second thought. If you did not want to shower with them, then you waited 15 minutes. They never so much as made a Straight joke, or winked at anyone.

And... everyone knew who they were. In any group of men where you spend 10 hours plus a day together, 6 days a week... or more, you get to know who is gay and who is not.

I wonder how many people said they were Gay just to get out of service. I know a couple of guys that did it and I have no respect for them at all.

I never saw anyone get kicked out for Homogexuality, but I do remember some of the guys that hated the Army talking about trying to go Corporal Klinger and getting Gay'ed out of the Military. Many times it was guys with Drug addiction or who were overweight and they did not want to jump through all the hoops the Army had for them to get out. There is no Drug Rehab program or Fatboy Weightloss program for Gays.

Can I posit that the military serves at the discretion of the civilian population? And that since an overwhelming majority support repeal of DADT, they need to figure out how to make it happen.

I agree with Ninja here. And I am amazed he is actually using Majority Rule as his arguement.

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venqax

Fine then you are anti gay and don't want gays in the military LOL your military is strained to the point that they should be looking at recruiting anything with a heart beat. Then you went and said gays could be good soldiers and what not all the while calling me stooopid for not sticking to the issue while you go off on a pro American rant about how good the war is and such. Talk about stooopid LOL

Silver, I'm beginning to suspect a basic literacy problem here. A reading comprehension issue. I never said I was anti-gay, never said I didn't want gays in the military. I didn't rant or say anything "pro-American", I didn't say anything indicating the war is good. In fact, I said it doesn't matter whether it is good or bad, we're talking about who is fighting it. Gays may be good soldiers. People who are NOT gay may not perform at their best with gays in their midst, tho. If you care about military effecacy, then that is a valid concern, whether you think it should be or not. It's called small-group psychology. That is an academic and scientific area of study that is really quite interesting. Well, if you understand it. You may want to have someone read to you about it. And BTW, have no fear, the military is meeting its recruiting goals. And gays are now welcome, so long as they keep their bents to the themselves.

Edited by venqax

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The Silver Thong

Silver, I'm beginning to suspect a basic literacy problem here. A reading comprehension issue. I never said I was anti-gay, never said I didn't want gays in the military. I didn't rant or say anything "pro-American", I didn't say anything indicating the war is good. In fact, I said it doesn't matter whether it is good or bad, we're talking about who is fighting it. Gays may be good soldiers. People who are NOT gay may not perform at their best with gays in their midst, tho. If you care about military effecacy, then that is a valid concern, whether you think it should be or not. It's called small-group psychology. It is and academic and scientific area of study that is really quite interesting. Well, if you get it. You may want to have someone read to you about it. And BTW, have no fear, the military is meeting its recruiting goals.

LOL you seem to be somewhat at odds with what you post and what you think as to what is happening. If you want to get right down to the meat and potato's of the issue I would have to come to the conclusion that you are either gay yourself or have had a so called gay moment in your life possibly in the military that you now suppress through your distaste of a military that allows gays to serve. Your psychobabble is quite entertaining though.

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venqax

LOL you seem to be somewhat at odds with what you post and what you think as to what is happening. If you want to get right down to the meat and potato's of the issue I would have to come to the conclusion that you are either gay yourself or have had a so called gay moment in your life possibly in the military that you now suppress through your distaste of a military that allows gays to serve. Your psychobabble is quite entertaining though.

I doubt you're hard to entertain. Shout out to anyone else on here. Does anything he's saying make any sense? I don't really know if it there is any response that is possible. If it weren't for the web, I'd expect his stuff written crayon.

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Pseudo Intellectual

Silver gets pretty emotional and rant-y when it comes to the US military. There was a thread a while ago about alleged US war crimes. He went nuts.

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The Silver Thong

And that speaks volumes. Virtually no one arguing in favor of the change has any idea what the job of a soldier is about. But 7 or so out 10 soldiers (and sailors, airmen, and marines) seem to know. So why mess with the policy as is is? Just say whatever gay personnel their are now can "express" themselves?

Heres's question outside this whole box: If you were gay, why would want anyone who was not also gay, to know it?

Who's writting with a crayon?

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