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THE MATRIX

GOP again attacking Gays in the Military

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Pseudo Intellectual

Silver, can you tell me the thread's title or the name of the person who made the thread, so I can search for it?

I'm asking a serious question here, but you're making it personal.

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The Silver Thong

The Taliban are more of a threat to a gay solider than a straight one.

The Taliban are religious extremists which is both a good thing and a bad thing if you are taken pow. Basically you can talk your way out of execution if you know how Islam works and have good morals. Islam has rules to follow and a code of honour to abide by.

However if they find out someone is homosexual they are dead. Probably leaving this world in a nasty way too such as beheading.

You don't know me that well. I do understand Islam and what the radicals believe. If you want to know more about my stance look up my past posts that pertain to that issue. Cutting off a guys head is different for a gay guy how? and really would a gay soldier say anything about his sexuality if captured. Damn if I were captured I would say what ever they wanted then come back later and kill them all.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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The Silver Thong

Silver, can you tell me the thread's title or the name of the person who made the thread, so I can search for it?

I'm asking a serious question here, but you're making it personal.

The one about the helicopter pilots that let loose on a bunch of people suspected of being terrorists. No I don't want to make it personal myself but damn some threads are swamped by the pro anything america or religion does as just and it's sad.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Pseudo Intellectual

The one about the helicopter pilots that let loose on a bunch of people suspected of being terrorists. No I don't want to make it personal myself but damn some threads are swamped by the pro anything america or religion does as just and it's sad.

Yes, I found the thread.

But it's 46 pages, and I can't read all that. Where does it say the men were tried and convicted?

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Rhomphaia

You are the one that used curse words on me and took the debate to a kindergarder level. I may not be able to debate like you on a play ground but I hold my own using others moronic posts as there own enemy.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179442&st=435

Pages 30 and 31. I will let people judge for themselves.

Then again, according to you, sticking to a point your opponent refuses to answer is debating on a kindergarten level...Yeah, you keep putting your own foot in your mouth.

Remember everyone, Silver Thong = dismissiveness, patronization and deflection. Absolutely no real debate can take place with him. This has been proven on these boards many, many times. I wish I could say he was the only one, but unfortunately, there are others.

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The Silver Thong

Yes, I found the thread.

But it's 46 pages, and I can't read all that. Where does it say the men were tried and convicted?

I said they were not convicted but brought up on charges and this is the admission of such. Don't question my loyalties or my truths until you can back them please.

from the thread you posted as to my request.

"AN OPEN LETTER OF RECONCILIATION & RESPONSIBILITY TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE

From Current and Former Members of the U.S. Military

Peace be with you.

To all of those who were injured or lost loved ones during the July 2007 Baghdad shootings depicted in the “Collateral Murder” Wikileaks video:

We write to you, your family, and your community with awareness that our words and actions can never restore your losses.

We are both soldiers who occupied your neighborhood for 14 months. Ethan McCord pulled your daughter and son from the van, and when doing so, saw the faces of his own children back home. Josh Stieber was in the same company but was not there that day, though he contributed to the your pain, and the pain of your community on many other occasions.

There is no bringing back all that was lost. What we seek is to learn from our mistakes and do everything we can to tell others of our experiences and how the people of the United States need to realize we have done and are doing to you and the people of your country. We humbly ask you what we can do to begin to repair the damage we caused.

We have been speaking to whoever will listen, telling them that what was shown in the Wikileaks video only begins to depict the suffering we have created. From our own experiences, and the experiences of other veterans we have talked to, we know that the acts depicted in this video are everyday occurrences of this war: this is the nature of how U.S.-led wars are carried out in this region.

We acknowledge our part in the deaths and injuries of your loved ones as we tell Americans what we were trained to do and what we carried out in the name of "god and country". The soldier in the video said that your husband shouldn't have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us.

More and more Americans are taking responsibility for what was done in our name. Though we have acted with cold hearts far too many times, we have not forgotten our actions towards you. Our heavy hearts still hold hope that we can restore inside our country the acknowledgment of your humanity, that we were taught to deny.

Our government may ignore you, concerned more with its public image. It has also ignored many veterans who have returned physically injured or mentally troubled by what they saw and did in your country. But the time is long overdue that we say that the value of our nation's leaders no longer represent us. Our secretary of defense may say the U.S. won't lose its reputation over this, but we stand and say that our reputation's importance pales in comparison to our common humanity.

We have asked our fellow veterans and service-members, as well as civilians both in the United States and abroad, to sign in support of this letter, and to offer their names as a testimony to our common humanity, to distance ourselves from the destructive policies of our nation's leaders, and to extend our hands to you.

With such pain, friendship might be too much to ask. Please accept our apology, our sorrow, our care, and our dedication to change from the inside out. We are doing what we can to speak out against the wars and military policies responsible for what happened to you and your loved ones. Our hearts are open to hearing how we can take any steps to support you through the pain that we have caused.

Solemnly and Sincerely,

Josh Stieber, former specialist, U.S. Army

Ethan McCord, former specialist, U.S. Army"

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The Silver Thong

Another short addmision.

"The soldier in the video said that your husband shouldn't have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us"

Now please enough of the witch hunt.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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The Silver Thong

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179442&st=435

Pages 30 and 31. I will let people judge for themselves.

Then again, according to you, sticking to a point your opponent refuses to answer is debating on a kindergarten level...Yeah, you keep putting your own foot in your mouth.

Remember everyone, Silver Thong = dismissiveness, patronization and deflection. Absolutely no real debate can take place with him. This has been proven on these boards many, many times. I wish I could say he was the only one, but unfortunately, there are others.

Ahh so you bring up an old thread that has you not sure of what your talking about. You want to love the CIA good for you ;)

What point????? this is about gays in the military and now I have a ton of Tea Partiers on my back. Goes to show who has an agenda and who does not. Nice attempt at deflection. So tell me would you serve with a gay guy or are you to yellow bellied chicken crap scared to even think of it?

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Pseudo Intellectual

I said they were not convicted but brought up on charges and this is the admission of such. Don't question my loyalties or my truths until you can back them please.

from the thread you posted as to my request.

"AN OPEN LETTER OF RECONCILIATION & RESPONSIBILITY TO THE IRAQI PEOPLE

From Current and Former Members of the U.S. Military

Peace be with you.

To all of those who were injured or lost loved ones during the July 2007 Baghdad shootings depicted in the “Collateral Murder” Wikileaks video:

We write to you, your family, and your community with awareness that our words and actions can never restore your losses.

We are both soldiers who occupied your neighborhood for 14 months. Ethan McCord pulled your daughter and son from the van, and when doing so, saw the faces of his own children back home. Josh Stieber was in the same company but was not there that day, though he contributed to the your pain, and the pain of your community on many other occasions.

There is no bringing back all that was lost. What we seek is to learn from our mistakes and do everything we can to tell others of our experiences and how the people of the United States need to realize we have done and are doing to you and the people of your country. We humbly ask you what we can do to begin to repair the damage we caused.

We have been speaking to whoever will listen, telling them that what was shown in the Wikileaks video only begins to depict the suffering we have created. From our own experiences, and the experiences of other veterans we have talked to, we know that the acts depicted in this video are everyday occurrences of this war: this is the nature of how U.S.-led wars are carried out in this region.

We acknowledge our part in the deaths and injuries of your loved ones as we tell Americans what we were trained to do and what we carried out in the name of "god and country". The soldier in the video said that your husband shouldn't have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us.

More and more Americans are taking responsibility for what was done in our name. Though we have acted with cold hearts far too many times, we have not forgotten our actions towards you. Our heavy hearts still hold hope that we can restore inside our country the acknowledgment of your humanity, that we were taught to deny.

Our government may ignore you, concerned more with its public image. It has also ignored many veterans who have returned physically injured or mentally troubled by what they saw and did in your country. But the time is long overdue that we say that the value of our nation's leaders no longer represent us. Our secretary of defense may say the U.S. won't lose its reputation over this, but we stand and say that our reputation's importance pales in comparison to our common humanity.

We have asked our fellow veterans and service-members, as well as civilians both in the United States and abroad, to sign in support of this letter, and to offer their names as a testimony to our common humanity, to distance ourselves from the destructive policies of our nation's leaders, and to extend our hands to you.

With such pain, friendship might be too much to ask. Please accept our apology, our sorrow, our care, and our dedication to change from the inside out. We are doing what we can to speak out against the wars and military policies responsible for what happened to you and your loved ones. Our hearts are open to hearing how we can take any steps to support you through the pain that we have caused.

Solemnly and Sincerely,

Josh Stieber, former specialist, U.S. Army

Ethan McCord, former specialist, U.S. Army"

Hmmmmm... But where does it say the soldiers weren't following the rules of engagement? Or that they were charged and pleaded guilty? And you did say they were tried and convicted...

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Pseudo Intellectual

Ahh so you bring up an old thread that has you not sure of what your talking about. You want to love the CIA good for you ;)

What point????? this is about gays in the military and now I have a ton of Tea Partiers on my back. Goes to show who has an agenda and who does not. Nice attempt at deflection. So tell me would you serve with a gay guy or are you to yellow bellied chicken crap scared to even think of it?

You're right, this is off-topic. But I asked a simple question. You could've answered it instead of resorting to personal attacks for a few pages, and the discussion would've ended in less than 5 posts.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread any longer. But I'd like it if you answered my question.

Edited by Pseudo Intellectual

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Rhomphaia

Ahh so you bring up an old thread that has you not sure of what your talking about. You want to love the CIA good for you ;)

If you really want to open this up for discussion, I will re-iterate my challenge to you. Make a thread about it and I will discuss it with you.

What point????? this is about gays in the military and now I have a ton of Tea Partiers on my back. Goes to show who has an agenda and who does not. Nice attempt at deflection.

My point was your debate skills. I was simply pointing out that you have none and can't be expected to support assertions that you make. You chose to defend yourself so I posted evidence of said lack of debate skills. I was happy to leave it at that. It was nothing more than an attempt to keep another poster from making the same mistake I did (namely expecting a coherent response from you).

So tell me would you serve with a gay guy or are you to yellow bellied chicken crap scared to even think of it?

I will humor you here...

I don't give a flying **** if someone is gay, straight, black, white, polka-dotted or wipes their ass with a burnt sienna crayon. If they can do their goddamn job and are able to meet the physical and mental requirements of whatever task we are set to, then I don't have a problem with them in any job, military or civilian.

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The Silver Thong

You're right, this is off-topic. But I asked a simple question. You could've answered it instead of resorting to personal attacks for a few pages, and the discussion would've ended in less than 5 posts.

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread any longer. But I'd like it if you answered my question.

I was not the one who took this thread in another direction. However I think I have supplied enough info from the thread in question. I am not about to go through it post per post but the pilotes envolved were charged and did have an investigation. I did state they were convicted but may have to go back and see as i do believe there was some fall out from that so called altercation. Enough so that the U.S. military had to have an investigation that didn't pan out so good.

Are you going to say sorry now or later :P

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The Silver Thong

If you really want to open this up for discussion, I will re-iterate my challenge to you. Make a thread about it and I will discuss it with you.

My point was your debate skills. I was simply pointing out that you have none and can't be expected to support assertions that you make. You chose to defend yourself so I posted evidence of said lack of debate skills. I was happy to leave it at that. It was nothing more than an attempt to keep another poster from making the same mistake I did (namely expecting a coherent response from you).

I will humor you here...

I don't give a flying **** if someone is gay, straight, black, white, polka-dotted or wipes their ass with a burnt sienna crayon. If they can do their goddamn job and are able to meet the physical and mental requirements of whatever task we are set to, then I don't have a problem with them in any job, military or civilian.

Why is it that I have an urge to laugh me ass off. This is the net and hell why not set up a debate and I'll meet you at three behind the bike racks. Dude you take things far to seriously, I'm worried as I don't want to see you have a triple bipass freak out :lol:

Hope you noticed that by the end of your rant you agreed with me LOL

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Pseudo Intellectual

Are you going to say sorry now or later :P

Well, it seems they did apologize, but you still haven't provided any evidence that they were charged/tried/pleaded guilty. :hmm:

But I don't want to derail the thread any longer. You could PM me the link. ;)

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Rhomphaia

Why is it that I have an urge to laugh me ass off. This is the net and hell why not set up a debate and I'll meet you at three behind the bike racks. Dude you take things far to seriously, I'm worried as I don't want to see you have a triple bipass freak out :lol:

Well, again, case in point. Everyone please take note.

Anyway, I have said my piece and backed it up. I even answered a challenge that went unresponded to because (I believe) it wasn't the answer he was looking for. I won't derail this thread further with a pointless argument about someone's proven lack of debate skill.

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The Silver Thong

Well, it seems they did apologize, but you still haven't provided any evidence that they were charged/tried/pleaded guilty. :hmm:

But I don't want to derail the thread any longer. You could PM me the link. ;)

Thank you, if we want to go back to that thread and start it up again I will be more than willings to, but should we? i respect ya man but I don't respect being hijacked over personal crap. Lets bring that thread back and it will show just how right I was. From the start to the finish brother.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/apr2010/apol-a23.shtml

No need for pm's as I feel UM is a community and pm's is a way of just hidding. I will have to go back and look at what the charges were for the people in question.

charged but not convicted, apology please.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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DieChecker

People in the militery are supose to be mature thinking adults if thats not the case than the military is worse than I thought.

I've always thought this was an idiot arguement. 95% of the people who are living in the barracks are lower Enlisted who average age 19. How many 19 year old males do you know that are adjusted mature adults. Answer.... not many. They do exist, but the vast majority are for sneaking beer, driving fast, hitting on girls and use the F-word for all their adjitives.

Edited by DieChecker

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Ryinrea

I meant the last part of your post. You were talking about generals and admirals. I clarified that I was speaking of the regular soldiers as well.

I even posted a couple of things about how the military would feel.

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Pseudo Intellectual

Thank you, if we want to go back to that thread and start it up again I will be more than willings to, but should we? i respect ya man but I don't respect being hijacked over personal crap. Lets bring that thread back and it will show just how right I was. From the start to the finish brother.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/apr2010/apol-a23.shtml

No need for pm's as I feel UM is a community and pm's is a way of just hidding. I will have to go back and look at what the charges were for the people in question.

charged but not convicted, apology please.

World Socialist Website? Great source!

Unfortunately, it doesn't say the men were charged. It's an article about the apology letter.

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The Silver Thong

I've always thought this was an idiot arguement. 95% of the people who are living in the barracks are lower Enlisted who average age 19. How many 19 year old males do you know that are adjusted mature adults. Answer.... not many. They do exist, but the vast majority are for sneaking beer, driving fast, hitting on girls and use the F-word for all their adjitives.

So if we equate this to bad parenting then we can say the mature responsible adults are not doing there job in preparing there soldiers for duty. I'm not out to bash but to put some sort of responsibility or ownership of whats happening. This is not about a 19 yr old deciding what the military does but a military deciding what a 19 yr old does.

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The Silver Thong

World Socialist Website? Great source!

Unfortunately, it doesn't say the men were charged. It's an article about the apology letter.

I was hoping you would catch that as it's not only reported there and if you cared to look. I am not here to do your homework. It could be reported by the "I don't give a crap founadtion" it still wouldn't change the facts.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Pseudo Intellectual

I was hoping you would catch that as it's not only reported there and if you cared to look. I am not here to do your homework. It could be reported by the "I don't give a crap founadtion" it still wouldn't change the facts.

Even the WSWS article doesn't say anything about the soldiers being charged.

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DieChecker

So if we equate this to bad parenting then we can say the mature responsible adults are not doing there job in preparing there soldiers for duty. I'm not out to bash but to put some sort of responsibility or ownership of whats happening.

That is correct. Bad parenting. Or at least sloppy parenting. Just look at America's test scores. Look at America's math skills. Look at America's weight problems. Look at America's fixation on Fame. Now tell me that America is not Immature in it's overall view. Especiallly young men.

This is not about a 19 yr old deciding what the military does but a military deciding what a 19 yr old does.

Ideally that would be true. But are you really going to be able to contain so many young men, when they are feeling like they need to act stupid?

I'm just saying look at your target audience and take that into account.

I'm not against gays in the military. I think my posts have shown that. I am just saying it will be better for everyone, safer, if there is some segregation on the personal level.

Edited by DieChecker

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eqgumby

Can I posit that the military serves at the discretion of the civilian population? And that since an overwhelming majority support repeal of DADT, they need to figure out how to make it happen.

The LAST thing you smarmy smart-ass civilians want to do, is tell a military member they serve at ANYONES discretion. That's like getting pulled over by a COP, and reminding him that he works for YOU, that YOUR tax dollars pay his salary. THAT is a bullstuff argument.

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eqgumby

LOL you seem to be somewhat at odds with what you post and what you think as to what is happening. If you want to get right down to the meat and potato's of the issue I would have to come to the conclusion that you are either gay yourself or have had a so called gay moment in your life possibly in the military that you now suppress through your distaste of a military that allows gays to serve. Your psychobabble is quite entertaining though.

I don't necessarily agree with Ven, but I think your just putting on your liberal Canadian hat there ST.

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