Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

[TheResearcher]

So the people on the ships were not innocent? I'm amazed at your defense of Israel being that they can do anything they want to survive. That is morally wrong. And now apparently they have violated international law by committing piracy on the open seas.

How were they in any means innocent?

The "peaceful humanitarians" attacked first. The Israeli's boarded to prevent the blockade being breached. So what if it was in international waters? It was clear where they were headed.

I didn't say they could do anything they want to survive, don't put words into my mouth.

[gabe]

NRK is streaming the emergency UN meeting live: http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/verden/1.7147285

Don't know if it works outside Norway. Does anyone know where else you might see this?

[Ryinrea]

How were they in any means innocent?

The "peaceful humanitarians" attacked first. The Israeli's boarded to prevent the blockade being breached. So what if it was in international waters? It was clear where they were headed.

I didn't say they could do anything they want to survive, don't put words into my mouth.

Fail I don't see anything in that picture to concluded this other than some idiot fulling off the boat, because he didn't land properly

[Waldo87]

How were they in any means innocent?

The "peaceful humanitarians" attacked first. The Israeli's boarded to prevent the blockade being breached. So what if it was in international waters? It was clear where they were headed.

I didn't say they could do anything they want to survive, don't put words into my mouth.

Yeah you're right, the mostly Turkish passengers and crew (armed with weaponry 'bats and pocket knives ' that could destroy the mighty IDF and Israel in the hands of Hamas) of the Turkish ship (being in international waters, making it their territory) put up quite a fight; as they are entitled to do when any ship is attacked by heavily armed intruders. The IDF boys, used to sniping at civilians from 5 kms hiding behind heavily tanks, laying waste to their targets through air strikes, got the worst of it and were about to be tossed into the sea before they started 'defending' themselves.

[Corp]

I can see the soldiers reacting if they were rushed by a mob and they thought their lives were in danger but they shouldn't have been on the boat to begin with. Gaza has been more or less quiet at last little while so it's time to show the carrot instead of the stick and reward peaceful behavour. Israel messed up big on this one.

[Moon Monkey]

I can see the soldiers reacting if they were rushed by a mob and they thought their lives were in danger but they shouldn't have been on the boat to begin with. Gaza has been more or less quiet at last little while so it's time to show the carrot instead of the stick and reward peaceful behavour. Israel messed up big on this one.

Quiet ? They were firing rockets and blowing up suicide donkeys the day before this happened.

[Corp]

Were they? Haven't heard anything in the news about Israel except for the settlements in the news for months now.

[Moon Monkey]

Were they? Haven't heard anything in the news about Israel except for the settlements in the news for months now.

Yeh, they used it to try and blow a hole in the fence. They also burned down a UN summer camp for kids and threatened to kill UNWRA workers if they don't stop such immoral activities (dancing and the like).

[TheResearcher]

Fail I don't see anything in that picture to concluded this other than some idiot fulling off the boat, because he didn't land properly

Fail. It's a video. Press the play button Einstein. Oh dear Haha

[Ryinrea]

Fail. It's a video. Press the play button Einstein. Oh dear Haha

Yes I was saying the picture that the video gave me doesn't conduce this view to me at least. You could hardly tell either way in my own opinion, since it was hard too tell what they had in other words.

[+DieChecker]

You got to respect the bravery of those guys going down that rope.

Where the Israelis armed? Then they were attacking a foreign ship in International waters. The crew has the right to defend themselves.

If the ships had gotten to Israeli waters then this would be a different story.

It is like shooting a guy in the street in front of your house, because he has a crowbar and a sack and looks like a burgler. It is not self defense, or defending your property till the burgler comes onto your property or into your house.

[TheResearcher]

We are now technically in a state of war with Israel over this. Israel attacked and pirated a NAtO member countries vessel in international waters. NATO is obligated to defend by international treaty. NATO treaty is very specific. Israel is in deep crap.

Incorrect as far as I'm aware:

SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

( engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;

© act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;

(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;

(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or

(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.

[Rosewin]

We are now technically in a state of war with Israel over this. Israel attacked and pirated a NAtO member countries vessel in international waters. NATO is obligated to defend by international treaty. NATO treaty is very specific. Israel is in deep crap.

And this.

[xcodesia]

They have killed 10 Turkishes in a turkish ship. They are really in trouble. If I was Recep I would make them pay a HUUUUGE amount of money or war of course. Diplomacy wont work with the sionists. Sionism will collapse soon also... In my opinion the disaster of this world will be from sionist money lovers of the Usa. Anyway Israel will pay for this....

They killed help-hand! what kind of brutalism is this!

Edited May 31, 2010 by xcodesia

[Ryinrea]

Will it looks They had no bases for the attack from an international lawyers point of view

A reporter with the pan-Arab satellite channel Al-Jazeera, who was sailing on the Turkish ship leading the flotilla, said the Israelis fired at the vessel before boarding it, wounding the captain.

"These savages are killing people here, please help," a Turkish television reporter said.

The broadcast ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, "Everybody shut up!"

At a news conference in Tel Aviv, Israel's military chief of staff and navy commander said all of the violence was centered on the lead boat, the Mavi Marmara, which was carrying 600 of the 700 activists. Troops took over the five other boats without incident, military chief Gabi Ashkenazi said.

"To me it is clear without a doubt, judging by what I saw and what I heard in the first reports from the soldiers, that in light of the danger to human life this violence required the use of weapons," Ashkenazi said.

Robin Churchill, a professor of international law at the University of Dundee in Scotland, said the Israeli commandos boarded the ship outside of Israel's territorial waters.

"As far as I can see, there is no legal basis for boarding these ships," Churchill said.

Many of the activists were from Europe.

[MARAB0D]

We are now technically in a state of war with Israel over this. Israel attacked and pirated a NAtO member countries vessel in international waters. NATO is obligated to defend by international treaty. NATO treaty is very specific. Israel is in deep crap.

This is not the case at all. Whatever flag I put on my fishing boat does not make it a representative of the official fleet of any country. The intruders were warned in advance not to violate the borders, and the Turkish boat did, with its crew attacking the Israeli marines - but this is not an attack on Israel by Turkey. NATO has nothing to do with this, as NATO did notplan this action, it was entirely accomplished by the private citizens. Israeli reaction goes 100% along the guidelines of the International Law, and it has full right to defend its borders, as it has a recognised sovereignty over these lands. I mean technically speaking the activists must be captured, sued and taken to jail. Its not up to some enthusiastic boys to dictate their rules to other countries.

[ninjadude]

So what if it was in international waters? It was clear where they were headed.

International waters are governed by international law. NOT Israeli law. When I take my boat out into the ocean it can clearly be headed for Gaza...LOL

[MARAB0D]

International waters are governed by international law. NOT Israeli law. When I take my boat out into the ocean it can clearly be headed for Gaza...LOL

The intention to penetrate Israeli borders without properly issued entry visas was publicly announced. If the boats really reached the border in the sea, they could be rightfully sunk together with the crews - which did not happen, as Israel took a proactive stance and did not allow them to cross. In fact Israeli government saved their lives.

[ninjadude]

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Nato charter article 5

Article 6 (1)

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France (2), on the territory of or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;

on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.

(1) The definition of the territories to which Article 5 applies was revised by Article 2 of the Protocol to the North Atlantic Treaty on the accession of Greece and Turkey signed on 22 October 1951.

(2) On January 16, 1963, the North Atlantic Council noted that insofar as the former Algerian Departments of France were concerned, the relevant clauses of this Treaty had become inapplicable as from July 3, 1962.

Nato charter article 6

Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert

Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.

CNN

This morning between 10:00 and 10:15 AM CDT, the President spoke by phone with Prime Minister Netanyahu. He said he understood the Prime Minister's decision to return immediately to Israel to deal with today's events. They agreed to reschedule their meeting at the first opportunity. The President expressed deep regret at the loss of life in today's incident, and concern for the wounded, many of whom are being treated in Israeli hospitals. The President also expressed the importance of learning all the facts and circumstances around this morning's tragic events as soon as possible.

whitehouse.gov

NATO will hold emergency talks on Tuesday at Turkey's behest after the deadly Israeli raid on a flotilla of aid-carrying ships bound for Gaza

source

Israel is a criminal state. It should be blockaded.

[Ryinrea]

The Noble peace prize winner is uncounted for says one of the people on the flotilla.

[xcodesia]

it is mega 2-sided. Turkish boat came there for help for those people. Anyway lets talk about holocaust pls. People will have the same idea for it. But the Palestine? Oh, muslims = terrorists so palestine = die. Politics do well job on everywhere. So sad for humanity

[Ryinrea]

it is mega 2-sided. Turkish boat came there for help for those people. Anyway lets talk about holocaust pls. People will have the same idea for it. But the Palestine? Oh, muslims = terrorists so palestine = die. Politics do well job on everywhere. So sad for humanity

Nope I don't think like that I just Hamas is going about the wrong way. Look what happen with the frotllia they were peaceful citizens, and were attacked by Israel see what can happen when you do things that are peaceful?

The same thing happened with Martian Luther King, and peace price winner Nelson Mandela also did things peacefully, and looked what happened they end up ending the aggression they had. Peacefully try to end the aggression by Israel movements tend to change minds about things, and wake people up when the peaceful protest are broken up.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Ryinrea

[xcodesia]

If the one who has died by a bullet were you? , Would you say the same thing again? NO. Anyway, waiting for news for something new, where is the humanity omfg we live in a gay world really (without offense against gays)

Edited May 31, 2010 by xcodesia

[Q24]

The intention to penetrate Israeli borders without properly issued entry visas was publicly announced. If the boats really reached the border in the sea, they could be rightfully sunk together with the crews - which did not happen, as Israel took a proactive stance and did not allow them to cross. In fact Israeli government saved their lives.

Since when did Gaza and its territorial waters fall within Israeli borders? If you are referring to the Israeli occupation then this is no more legitimate than Germany’s control of France under Hitler.

Anyhow, I’ve been thinking more about this event and the aftermath we have seen so far. If it shows anything (except that Jewish leaders are not responsible enough to control an armed force), then it is that Israel can only fuel opposition through their current track. If peace is ever to be achieved and Israel truly accepted in the world then they must change policy to a more humanitarian stance.

If not, one day there is a chance this will all come back on them in the worst way.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

The flotilla made their intentions clear. They were going to violate the blockade. It really is irrelevant that they were in international waters when the Israelis boarded the ship.

ASHDOD, Israel (AFP) – Pro-Palestinian activists vowed on Thursday to steam on to Hamas-run Gaza and bust the blockade with their aid-laden flotilla as Israel again warned it would intercept the ships.

"We have the right to sail from international waters into the waters of Gaza," said Greta Berlin, one of the flotilla's organisers. (snip)

"This mission is not about delivering humanitarian supplies, it's about breaking Israel's siege on 1.5 million Palestinians," she said.

Irishman Fintan Lane echoed the sentiments.

"We are determined to break Israel's blockade and will not be intimidated," said Lane, one of 750 activists from around the world, including dozens of public officials from European and Arab countries, that organisers say are heading towards Gaza.

And gosh, just look at the peaceful, unarmed humanitarians bravely fighting the evil Jews:

A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.

Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.

Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.

The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.

The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.

The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.

Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Pseudo Intellectual