Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

[Pseudo Intellectual]

[Pseudo Intellectual]

(Sorry for the triple post; you can only post two videos per post)

[Ryinrea]

Those people that believe the spin are the reason we will never see peace. If some tried to defend themselves than I think they have every right to retake the boat that belonged to them. Edited May 31, 2010 by Ryinrea

[Ryinrea]

If the one who has died by a bullet were you? , Would you say the same thing again? NO. Anyway, waiting for news for something new, where is the humanity omfg we live in a gay world really (without offense against gays)

Yes I would ask my family to be peaceful in trying to find my murder.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Defend themselves from what? The Jew-hating, Hamas-supporting “humanitarians” were attempting to break the Gaza blockade. When the Israelis tried to steer them away, they attacked them like the savages they are. They should've been gunned down, not hit with paintballs and shot in the legs.

[Ryinrea]

(Sorry for the triple post; you can only post two videos per post)

Uh uh ahahahahahahaha you actually believe that spin PI

[Pseudo Intellectual]

If your only argument is "Don't believe the spin!", there are other threads for such immaturity.

[Ryinrea]

If your only argument is "Don't believe the spin!", there are other threads for such immaturity.

The thing is, you posted a YOUTUBE VIDEO THAT COULD BE EDIT Pi.

[Ryinrea]

Defend themselves from what? The Jew-hating, Hamas-supporting “humanitarians” were attempting to break the Gaza blockade. When the Israelis tried to steer them away, they attacked them like the savages they are. They should've been gunned down, not hit with paintballs and shot in the legs.

People who went too piracy in international waters, if people with helicopters, and guns came at me I would defend myself as well I would be arming myself and getting ready for an attack. And fail I knew that you would pull the Jew hater thing PI that is the same tactics that I face a lot from you. They had a 85 year Jewish holocaust survivor on board, and noble peace prize winner, so no not a JEW hating Hamas "humanitarians"

Retired diplomat Ann Wright and 85 year old Holocaust survivor Hedy Epstein are onboard the flotilla along with 800 other activists. See press release below:

So she must hate her own race then.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Ryinrea

[Pseudo Intellectual]

Self-hating Jews aren't uncommon. A holocaust surviver supporting people who wish to commit another Jewish holocaust... You'll have to excuse me if I don't think she's the biggest lover of Jews in the world.

People who went too piracy in international waters, if people with helicopters, and guns came at me I would defend myself as well I would be arming myself and getting ready for an attack.

The "activists" made their intentions clear. They were going to break the blockade. That automatically makes the fact they were in international waters irrelevant. How many times do I have to repeat this?

[J.B.]

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

Unless Neutral means "Not part of NATO at all" I think Israel actually had a legal loophole to attack this ship. So while everybody might be on board the "Let's kill Israel" flagship, they really don't have a legal standpoint to go to war over this event, since innocent of violent crimes or not, these people did in fact intend to do something that gave Israel NATO permission to detain/kill them.

Also, from what I understand, Hitler was half Jew, so don't pull the "What, she hated her race?" gag, she might very well have.

[joshsluss]

People who went too piracy in international waters, if people with helicopters, and guns came at me I would defend myself as well I would be arming myself and getting ready for an attack. And fail I knew that you would pull the Jew hater thing PI that is the same tactics that I face a lot from you. They had a 85 year Jewish holocaust survivor on board, and noble peace prize winner, so no not a JEW hating Hamas "humanitarians"

So she must hate her own race then.

You really need to look into a situation before posting and commenting on it. They are saying this may have been a set up. Calm down before you speak. I'm not saying you're wrong, but don't try to make a situation as complicated as this look one way when it could be a completely different scenerio.

[Ryinrea]

You really need to look into a situation before posting and commenting on it. They are saying this may have been a set up. Calm down before you speak. I'm not saying you're wrong, but don't try to make a situation as complicated as this look one way when it could be a completely different scenerio.

I am clam I'm just saying that people need to not believe everything you hear that is coming from the IDF, because they are in hot water over this.

Pi just

[Ryinrea]

Also, from what I understand, Hitler was half Jew, so don't pull the "What, she hated her race?" gag, she might very well have.

This is pure speculation, and no factual evidence has been uncovered to say this with out a doubt.

Edited May 31, 2010 by Ryinrea

[DevilDogPratt]

I am clam I'm just saying that people need to not believe everything you hear that is coming from the IDF, because they are in hot water over this.

Pi just

it seems to me you cant always believe everything you hear from anti-Israeli sources either. and ill just leave this here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Francop as it is a very similar event

[Ryinrea]

it seems to me you cant always believe everything you hear from anti-Israeli sources either. and ill just leave this here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Francop as it is a very similar event

So anyone who is against this action is anti Israel in your opinion? No The Francop is not similar to this event they broad an humanitarian aid ship that was highly publicized, and from 50 different countries with some 50 different countries citizens on broad including several former generals, a noble peace prize winner, and legislators from different counties. They had no right to do this in internationals waters. The reason I don't trust the IDF version is because they are trying too do damage control in other trying trying to justify their actions to the international community.

I am just saying they had people from all over, and the fact NATO Costume agency said they had cleared every ship in the flotilla. Even if the wanted too cause a confection the Israeli's just shouldn't have given them one .

Edited June 1, 2010 by Ryinrea

[+DieChecker]

It really is irrelevant that they were in international waters when the Israelis boarded the ship.

It is only irrelevant if the ships are suspected to carry military supplys. Which they were earlier inspected and shown not to have any of.

Neutral merchant vessels

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;

Unless Neutral means "Not part of NATO at all" I think Israel actually had a legal loophole to attack this ship. So while everybody might be on board the "Let's kill Israel" flagship, they really don't have a legal standpoint to go to war over this event, since innocent of violent crimes or not, these people did in fact intend to do something that gave Israel NATO permission to detain/kill them.

Also, from what I understand, Hitler was half Jew, so don't pull the "What, she hated her race?" gag, she might very well have.

I did find this in this link. The same place your quote came from.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082b509e76c41256739003e636d/7694fe2016f347e1c125641f002d49ce

SECTION II : PRECAUTIONS IN ATTACK

46. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:

© they shall furthermore take all feasible precautions in the choice of methods and means in order to avoid or minimize collateral casualties or damage; and

(d) an attack shall not be launched if it may be expected to cause collateral casualties or damage which world be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the attack as a whole; an attack shall be cancelled or suspended as soon as it becomes apparent that the collateral casualties or damage would be excessive.

Do we know what precautions they took? Clearly helo-dropping onto a ship of angry activists by well armed military personnel can be expected to cause collateral casualties and deaths. They should have used a better plan.

If they had as much warning as is claimed, they should have come up with a much better plan.

SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT

Neutral merchant vessels

...

68. Any attack on these vessels is subject to the basic rules in paragraphs 38-46.

69. The mere fact that a neutral merchant vessel is armed provides no grounds for attacking it.

PART IV : METHODS AND MEANS OF WARFARE AT SEA

...

SECTION II : METHODS OF WARFARE

Blockade

...

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

If we are going off technicalities, such as intent of the Flotilla, then we need to know... Was the location and duration of this Blockade made public? If not, then it could be an illegal blockade. Did Israel specify international waters? Did they specify a time or location at all?

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

Needs to be Effective. They have already admitted that more then a third of the ships that have attempted to break the blockade have been let through.

98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

Which clearly resist. When did they clearly resist?

102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or

( the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.

Very debatable, as they did announce the ships could land elsewhere and offload their supplies. But possibly, with the right logistically data, you could form a case of the blockade preventing essential survival materials from being delivered.

Edited June 1, 2010 by DieChecker

[odas]

Defend themselves from what? The Jew-hating, Hamas-supporting “humanitarians” were attempting to break the Gaza blockade. When the Israelis tried to steer them away, they attacked them like the savages they are. They should've been gunned down, not hit with paintballs and shot in the legs.

Jew-Hating. I hate this excuse. Enought already. One can not critisize the Israely government without being a Jew hater. How long will this excuse be good enough? I critisize PM Harper all the time, am I anti Canadian?

I look with discused at the Bosnian government, am I anti Bosnian?

Stop that bs already. It is getting lame.

[Ryinrea]

Internatioal out cry

People Reactions

Iseral Face the fall out of the raid

ODS thank you.

[Runa86]

Do we know what precautions they took?

They didn't bomb it.

They landed on the ship thus endangering their own lives so as to not cause total destruction. What did you expect, that they'll sing them to sleep and wait till then take over ther ship?

Clearly helo-dropping onto a ship of angry activists by well armed military personnel can be expected to cause collateral casualties and deaths.

Well, no you see, because the IDF seemed to have no trouble with the other 5 ships. It's only the 6th one that cause trouble.

They should have used a better plan.

The activists should have arrived in Ashdod and arrange the delivey of the cargo from there. Or, if they distrusted Israel...they should've gone to Egypt. Clearly the knew there was going to be a confrontation. Sad as it is.

If they had as much warning as is claimed, they should have come up with a much better plan.

They did: come to Ashdod, they said.

The blockade could be lifted. But Israel would want the government in Gaza to upgrade its position to a more responsible stance, so that even if one Kassam rocket falls in Israel, it should be considered a war declaration officially.

What a disaster. Gaza and Israel are in a perpetual war state (with more than a thousand rockets from Gaza making more than a thousands war declarations). Not so Egypt and Hamas. Egypt should open its crossings and open its blockade. Let the impoverished Palestinians look for a better life in Egypt, if their options are too limited where they are. Let the Gazans go.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Runa86

[Ryinrea]

Die checker it was 65km off the Palestinian coastal enclaves. I am not sure how much that is in miles however from my below I have a chart I find explanation the distance in international water

The flotilla was attacked in international waters, 65km off the Palestinian coastal enclave.

[Pseudo Intellectual]

It is only irrelevant if the ships are suspected to carry military supplys. Which they were earlier inspected and shown not to have any of.

Nope. It's irrelevant in the case of a ship that makes clear its intention to violate a blockade and refuse to turn back after being warned.

Jew-Hating. I hate this excuse. Enought already. One can not critisize the Israely government without being a Jew hater. How long will this excuse be good enough? I critisize PM Harper all the time, am I anti Canadian?

I look with discused at the Bosnian government, am I anti Bosnian?

Stop that bs already. It is getting lame.

It's getting lame having to explain to people that the "Jew-hating" label was directed at those terrorist-supporting Jew-haters who tried to violate the blockade, not every person in the world who opposes Israel.

[odas]

Nope. It's irrelevant in the case of a ship that makes clear its intention to violate a blockade and refuse to turn back after being warned.

It's getting lame having to explain to people that the "Jew-hating" label was directed at those terrorist-supporting Jew-haters who tried to violate the blockade, not every person in the world who opposes Israel.

I am sure that the people on those boats are not Jew-haters. But there is always a chance of a small group within.

As for Israel, it is unexplainable how they go to p*** of Turkey, a friend. I would be very coutios. Turkey is not led by nutjobs. When they promise something they do it.

[Ryinrea]

Democray now is talking too one of the Free Flotilla people.

[Drj312]

The wikipedia page is a good summary of the incident.

The raid was legal. Also, IDF forces first used paintball guns