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Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship


Ryinrea

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Rosewin, do not waste your efforts. There are people who cannot survive historical accuracy...

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Anyways, Israel has started deporting activists and so far 120 foreign activists have made their way to Jordan. An interesting Q&A on news.bbc.co.uk giving accounts and responses of both sides based on current information. (BBC).

Again the most prominent point "According to the UN, Gaza receives about one quarter of the supplies it used to receive in the years before the blockade was tightened in 2007. The ships were carrying 10,000 tonnes of goods, including school supplies, building materials and two large electricity generators. The activists also say they wanted to make the point that, in their view, the blockade is illegal under international law".

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prscustom - I removed your previous post for a reason, and you reposted it. Do not do it again. It added nothing to the conversation either time - both times, you merely posted that one three word sentence, with no other qualifying remarks, making it a trash post, which UM moderators delete.

Dan'O - since you have declined to take Rosewin up on the offer of another thread to discuss a somewhat related but offtopic issue, you're jeopardizing your formal warning level that you won't return to that subject again in this thread, be aware.

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So you keep saying. Is that a bad thing ?

to answer your question, yes.

after reading his posts u can see hes trying to manipulate every discussion about jews in this topic for his own favor, thus defending the jews. his signature says it all..

be smarter, beware of jew

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Rosewin, do not waste your efforts. There are people who cannot survive historical accuracy...

Cannot help it when I watch videos like this for fun:

Check out the first part if interested in hearing how Spanish nobles employed Muslims who would protect the Christian king, collect taxes from Christians for the king, and put down rebellions by Christians against the king. These imported Muslims would fight only Christians but never would be used against others Muslims. They were not subject to any laws of the land but could also be executed without any trial. On the other side you also had Muslim rulers who would allow Christian knights to serve under them in the same capacity in North Africa.

Anyways I'll get back on topic.

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prscustom, you can share your opinion, but understand that the way you post makes it look very much like something bordering on racism. UM is open to anyone that has internet access. People can express their dislikes, but saying to "beware" other races, cultures, orientations and such, is not acceptable.

I'll leave your post for now so people can have a clear idea of what I'm talking about, but I strongly urge you to find some other way of expressing your opinion on the TOPIC. Do not address or specifically characterize other posters again, especially in this manner.

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prscustom, you can share your opinion, but understand that the way you post makes it look very much like something bordering on racism. UM is open to anyone that has internet access. People can express their dislikes, but saying to "beware" other races, cultures, orientations and such, is not acceptable.

I'll leave your post for now so people can have a clear idea of what I'm talking about, but I strongly urge you to find some other way of expressing your opinion on the TOPIC. Do not address or specifically characterize other posters again, especially in this manner.

Oh I don't think anyone here is offended by it. One can only shake their head in disbelief at such ignorance.

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That is a slippery slope we do not want to go on.

I am also mildly offended by racial language in the context of a debate even if it is being used to accuse others of being racist when it is clear they are not (defamation).

Edited by Rosewin
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Racist remarks shouldn't be censored, in my opinion. They should be left up for every one to see the content of the character of the poster of those remarks.

But we're getting off-topic now. <_<

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But we're getting off-topic now. <_<

i dont think we are getting off-topic,

we are talking about israeli government blocking the ships and killing unarmed people from different nations on international waters, arent we?

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That is about right except for the unarmed part. A witness on board has stated he saw clubs but nothing else so there was at least that. That in no way means all the peace activists had clubs or condoned their use to begin with but a small element of those on board did.

Some other small facts gathered so far by trying to synthesize both Israeli and peace activists accounts:

  • It was not an act of piracy on the part of Israel but can be interpreted perhaps by an international court as an illegal act of war.
  • Israel did have a right to try and stop the flotilla from breaking the embargo but the embargo is not internationally sanctioned to begin with and is in fact internationally condemned.
  • Israel did have a right to board the vessels in order to steer them away, even in international waters if the vessels were intending to break the blockade, but should have sent police and not military forces whose only function is acts of war.
  • The peace activists do have a moral right to try and break the embargo and are not breaking any international laws since the embargo is not internationally enforced but there is still Israeli law to contend with and Israel does have a right to enact and enforce their own laws. Sticky gray area here most especially.
  • The peace activists, not all but the few, knowingly chose a course of confrontation and escalation, they could have complied and changed course when asked, and it was not the wisest thing to attack armed soldiers with clubs on their part knowing they could die for it.
  • The peace activists whose only goal is to help Palestinians who in fact are in need and the Israeli soldiers who are only taking orders from superiors are all heroes.
  • The radical activists who chose the tactic of not heeding warnings and fighting back with clubs and the Israeli government officials who took one week to decide they would at all cost stop those trying to break the embargo are the root cause of this incident.

It is not easy but distinctions can be made.

Edited by Rosewin
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Seems the daughter of one of the activists say that he's being treated well and that he'll be home in a few days (over a hundred have already left the country). So that's good news.

In not so good news seems Turkey is comparing this whole situation to 9/11. Way to calm things down there.

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Seems the daughter of one of the activists say that he's being treated well and that he'll be home in a few days (over a hundred have already left the country). So that's good news.

In not so good news seems Turkey is comparing this whole situation to 9/11. Way to calm things down there.

Agreed but let us not forget that Israel is also making it seem like the boat was filled with Hamas radicals.

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True and that's stupid of Israel. But comparing a blotched raid that killed nine people to a massive terrorist attack that killed over a thousand people is just foolish and I would have expected better from a foreign minister.

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Agreed but let us not forget that Israel is also making it seem like the boat was filled with Hamas radicals.

“They came for war,” was how one Israel Navy commando described the activists aboard the Mavi Marmara Turkish passenger ship, where clashes erupted early Monday morning and ended with a reported 10 activists dead and dozens of others, including eight IDF soldiers, wounded.

A top Navy officer said that in the future, the Navy will be more aggressive and treat such ships like they were coming for “war.”

“The soldiers acted with the utmost nobility,” said one police source close to the Yamam ( Israel Police’s elite counter-terror unit). “They engaged in hand-to-hand combat, sustained injuries, but only opened fire after one of them was lying on the ground unconscious and two others had been shot. This was an unbelievable demonstration of restraint.”

(source - Jerusalem Post)

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prscustom, you can share your opinion, but understand that the way you post makes it look very much like something bordering on racism. UM is open to anyone that has internet access. People can express their dislikes, but saying to "beware" other races, cultures, orientations and such, is not acceptable.

I'll leave your post for now so people can have a clear idea of what I'm talking about, but I strongly urge you to find some other way of expressing your opinion on the TOPIC. Do not address or specifically characterize other posters again, especially in this manner.

i didnt mean to offend anyone in racist way, but also taking sides about such topic is not constructive

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I guarantee if Israel attacks another ship like that, it isn't going to be a matter of sanctions. They do this again against an international ship, they're either going to have every nation sending aidships to swamp their blockade or they're going to be facing an international fleet of warships bearing down on them.

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I guarantee if Israel attacks another ship like that, it isn't going to be a matter of sanctions. They do this again against an international ship, they're either going to have every nation sending aidships to swamp their blockade or they're going to be facing an international fleet of warships bearing down on them.

I think we done got us a Mexican standoff.

More ships will come. Israel refuses to back down.

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Israel might have their reasons for feeling paranoid about keeping a tight control over water and air space around Gaza, thanks to the inconsiderate actions in the past of the likes of Hamas, Fatah Hezbolah etc. which only added to the sufferings of their own people but they have to take a lot of responsibility for whats currently happening to the Palestinians now and how this blockade is effecting the lives of 1.4 million people, many of whom are children. The consequences of all of this is in the outcome of this raid for everyone to see.

Up to now most cries from the outside world have been coming from humanitarian groups and of course, enemies of Israel. To a lesser degree from the UNSC who has never approved this blockade but hasn't done much to avoid or stop it. But now they're starting to p..ss off allies and most of the world community. This whole mess in Gaza is starting to look more like arrogant defiance and complete disregard on behalf of Israel, towards anyone that has a different point of view than theirs, no matter how right the matter might be. They're probably digging their own grave and I'm not too sure uncle sam will always be there to carry them home.

Edited by BlackRedLittleDevil
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Well, Israel is a place of medical and military science. We get a bit of technology from them, so I doubt the U.S. is going to back away from supporting them until the U.S. has no more support to give. I think we'd either face a full collapse or the world lopping us in with Israel on their shitlist before the U.S. turns its back on Israel.

Remember, our world was built by the bad guys, either directly or indirectly, so even if Israel turns out to be sheer evil as some conspiracy nuts say, there will never be denying they have a big hand in making our world what it is.

Also, to Marabod, I saw on History channel when they talked about the Audobon that it existed/was being built before Hitler came to power, it would have come about with or without his existence.

Edited by J.B.
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Israel might have their reasons for feeling paranoid about keeping a tight control over water and air space around Gaza, thanks to the inconsiderate actions in the past of the likes of Hamas, Fatah Hezbolah etc. which only added to the sufferings of their own people but they have to take a lot of responsibility for whats currently happening to the Palestinians now and how this blockade is effecting the lives of 1.4 million people, many of whom are children. The consequences of all of this is in the outcome of this raid for everyone to see.

Up to now most cries from the outside world have been coming from humanitarian groups and of course, enemies of Israel. To a lesser degree from the UNSC who has never approved this blockade but hasn't done much to avoid or stop it. But now they're starting to p..ss off allies and most of the world community. This whole mess in Gaza is starting to look more like arrogant defiance and complete disregard on behalf of Israel, towards anyone that has a different point of view than theirs, no matter how right the matter might be. They're probably digging their own grave and I'm not too sure uncle sam will always be there to carry them home.

Excellent assessment. If this were an MMORPG and they were a clan acting like this, they would not last long. I5R434L!!!!!!1

Well, Israel is a place of medical and military science. We get a bit of technology from them, so I doubt the U.S. is going to back away from supporting them until the U.S. has no more support to give. I think we'd either face a full collapse or the world lopping us in with Israel on their shitlist before the U.S. turns its back on Israel.

Remember, our world was built by the bad guys, either directly or indirectly, so even if Israel turns out to be sheer evil as some conspiracy nuts say, there will never be denying they have a big hand in making our world what it is.

Also, to Marabod, I saw on History channel when they talked about the Audobon that it existed/was being built before Hitler came to power, it would have come about with or without his existence.

Not many consider the other ties America has with Israel, since they are not just all about war, but the subsidization allocated by America to Israel are substantial and mostly used for their military. Still there are cultural ties as well that have nothing to do with economics.

At the same time we try and play nice to the Muslims for their oil and other trade. It makes me wonder though if we are just supporting Israel knowing it is a thorn but also knowing because of Israel there cannot be a united Islamic caliphate and it is better to deal with them on a state-by-state basis rather than having to deal with a mega size Iran, Saudia Arabia, or Syria. The good ole divide and conquer or divide and rule in this case or maybe its just divide and trade.

Edited by Rosewin
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Well, Israel is a place of medical and military science. We get a bit of technology from them, so I doubt the U.S. is going to back away from supporting them until the U.S. has no more support to give. I think we'd either face a full collapse or the world lopping us in with Israel on their shitlist before the U.S. turns its back on Israel.

If there is one thing I've learnt about how politics work in this world, it's that alliances don't last long, specially when the going gets tough and there's nothing to gain by being loyal.

Remember, our world was built by the bad guys, either directly or indirectly, so even if Israel turns out to be sheer evil as some conspiracy nuts say, there will never be denying they have a big hand in making our world what it is.

I've got great respect for the contribution of jewish people to science, medicine etc. etc. I just don't agree with the actions of the Israeli Govt.

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Well, they are going haywire and all out force here, so I don't blame you for not supporting the gov's actions. Long as we keep the Israeli Government and All Jewish People separate in our minds, there's no dishonor in disliking the first. Half my family's Jewish, and I remember watching the MSNBC coverage of the Israeli ground attacks during New Year's 2009. My grandparents watched it with me, and they were sad (I think, hard to remember the exact emotion, but they weren't particularly thrilled with the Israeli government sending an attack into the Palestinian areas) about the whole mess.

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Excellent assessment. If this were an MMORPG and they were a clan acting like this, they would not last long. I5R434L!!!!!!1

Not many consider the other ties America has with Israel, since they are not just all about war, but the subsidization allocated by America to Israel are substantial and mostly used for their military. Still there are cultural ties as well that have nothing to do with economics.

At the same time we try and play nice to the Muslims for their oil and other trade. It makes me wonder though if we are just supporting Israel knowing it is a thorn but also knowing because of Israel there cannot be a united Islamic caliphate and it is better to deal with them on a state-by-state basis rather than having to deal with a mega size Iran, Saudia Arabia, or Syria. The good ole divide and conquer or divide and rule in this case or maybe its just divide and trade.

There will never be a united Islamic caliphate because while many share an Islamic culture, brought on by the expansion of Islam, many belong to different tribes, races etc. Iran for example are Persians and don't even share the same language as the arabs, which are mainly found on the Saudi Arabian peninsula. Anyway, if you ask me, the main reason is because Jews have a lot of financial power in the US and in the world.

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