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Ryinrea

Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship

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Rosewin

hamas has a record of taking aid and turning it into weapons, not reconstructing or even feeding the people.

Aid is needed, not enough aid is being allowed into Palestine, considerations of whether reconstruction materials will be used to rebuild homes and clinics destroyed by Israeli Defense Forces take priority over questions of what if aid might nefariously be co-opted by Hamas to build....I don't know what, I mean can concrete be used to build anything that can pose a threat to American-made, Israeli-manned fighter jets suchs as F-16s with precision laser-guided missiles which helped destroy them in the first place, for example.

So any humanitarian considerations of badly needed reconstruction materials, where fragile lives are also at stake, as much as food, medical and other supplies, all of which pose no threat to Israel or the peace process, take priority over any Israeli government objections which are political by nature.

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danielost

Aid is needed, not enough aid is being allowed into Palestine, considerations of whether reconstruction materials will be used to rebuild homes and clinics destroyed by Israeli Defense Forces take priority over questions of what if aid might nefariously be co-opted by Hamas to build....I don't know what, I mean can concrete be used to build anything that can pose a threat to American-made, Israeli-manned fighter jets suchs as F-16s with precision laser-guided missiles which helped destroy them in the first place, for example.

So any humanitarian considerations of badly needed reconstruction materials, where fragile lives are also at stake, as much as food, medical and other supplies, all of which pose no threat to Israel or the peace process, take priority over any Israeli government objections which are political by nature.

yes concrete can be used to build hardened bunkers. some meds. can be made into chem. weapons. dont know what the other supplies are. rocket fuel can be made from potatoes. i dont know how but i know it can be done.

also nothing says that they cant take this aid and sell it for weapons. and where is the outrage against egypt for supporting this blockaid.

Edited by danielost

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Rosewin

rocket fuel can be made from potatoes.

nevermind...

where is the outrage against egypt for supporting this blockaid.
“This situation of course harms Egypt’s reputation and its position within the international community,” says Ibrahim Mansour, Chief Executive Editor of El Destour, an independent daily. “It shows that Egypt is an important part of the severe blockade going on against Gaza right now, which in the end only serves Israel’s agenda.”

Last week, Egypt delayed hundreds of foreign activists from traveling to Gaza. Unable to march in Gaza they brought the protest to Cairo, blocking traffic on major roads and holding a sit-in in downtown’s Tahrir Square.

On Tuesday, Egyptian officials delayed – and reportedly tear-gassed - an aid convoy headed by British left-wing Parliamentarian George Galloway. Some of the protesting Palestinians in Gaza were awaiting Mr. Galloway’s convoy, while others were demonstrating against Egypt’s construction of a new border wall meant to curb underground smuggling into the Hamas-controled Gaza Strip.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/2010/0106/Border-clash-raises-Egyptian-anger-over-Gaza-blockade

Edited by Rosewin

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danielost

nevermind...

what you never heard of using alchohol for rocket fuel. anything you can make adult beverages from can also be used to make the stuff needed for rocket fuel. remember hamas doesnt care where the rockets fall in isreal, they consider anyone 3 years old and up as being in the military.

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GreatFenris

hamas has a record of taking aid and turning it into weapons, not reconstructing or even feeding the people.

I am sure the new Qassam Crayon Rocket would spell the doom of Israel...

Do the proponents for Israel just ignore the core issue? Israel is allowing far too little aid into Gaza already, this fleet was meant to alleviate the hardships of the Palestinians. Now, Hamas might have gotten hold of it, and maybe they would have used it as a PR victory, though that is not their fault in this situation, only we westerners that seem to forget that in almost all cases where a country is kept blockaded from the rest of the world it's fanatics grow stronger, not weaker.

In short, when I look at the mentality of the society I live in I am deeply saddened by the growing idiocy at times. Then again, the immorality of those who support these current events makes me not sad but disgusted.

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Rosewin
Israel is allowing far too little aid into Gaza already

This.

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keithisco

The ships were boarded 40 miles off of the coast.This is international waters over which Israel has no jurisdiction.

They have committed an Act of State Sponsored Terrorism leading to murder. QED angry.gif

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resident looney

This.

The USS Constitution suffered a collision atributed to "An Act Of God" the day after blockading a shipment of wheat. A student may be aprehensive of coincidence.

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ExpandMyMind

Protesters try to storm Israel consulate in Turkey after Gaza flotilla deaths

Turkish police blocked dozens of stone-throwing protesters who tried to storm the Israeli Consulate in Istanbul over reports of an Israeli attack on at least one aid ship in international waters on Monday, news channels reported.

CNN-Turk and NTV showed dozens of angry protesters scuffling with Turkish police guarding the consulate in downtown Istanbul.

"Damn Israel," the protesters shouted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/protesters-try-to-storm-israel-consulate-in-turkey-after-gaza-flotilla-deaths-1.293172

and turkey have also withdrawn their ambassador. i believe the withdrawal of an ambassador often comes as a prelude to war.

edit - war may not be too far off between turkey and israel. technically, the attack on these ships was an attack on turkey itself. this is made so by the fact that they were attacked in international waters, while flying the turkish flag, effectively making it an attack on turkish sovereign territory. add this in with the numerous times that israeli politicians have crapped, publicaly, all over their turkish counterparts over the past year and things really do not look good.

israel have shot themselves in the foot by losing turkey as an ally.

Edited by expandmymind

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keithisco

0900: The BBC's Tim Franks in Jerusalem says:

After the funerals and after the rage Israel will face two big questions: if, as Israeli officials insist, they are happy to channel all this aid into Gaza via Israeli ports - including the building materials which it claims Hamas could put to military ends - then what's the point of the blockade?

And how far can it continue to stick to the line that "there are no shortages in Gaza", when the United Nations, among others, describes the humanitarian situation as "grim" and "deteriorating"?

0845: Audrey Bomse of the Free Gaza movement, which organised the convoy, tells the BBC:

"I can tell you that there were no firearms - all the boats were carefully inspected by the government before they left the port of departure.

"You can't hide a firearm; I suppose you can hide a knife, but there's no evidence there was shooting, there was live streaming coming from the boats.

"You don't see any fire going past the Israelis, you see them coming out of helicopters and shooting immediately."

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ExpandMyMind

and just to mention - this has been condemned worldwide, from russia and china, to spain and others. it hasn't yet been condemned by the obama administration though... need to wait until the israeli prime minister leaves US soil before they can open their mouths on that one...

let us now see israel do what it, by far, does best - spin.

Edited by expandmymind

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Ryinrea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fYVi6_m-0k



The IDF knew what was on these ships their were no guns aboard this ship, if costumes allowed them too go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_igIwRZkDPc

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TheResearcher


I'm with Israel on this one.

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DieChecker

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/05/31/gaza.protest/?hpt=T1

Israel claimed it was defending itself, with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) saying the soldiers' lives were in danger after they were attacked with "severe physical violence, including live fire, weapons, knives and clubs."

The Free Gaza Movement, one of the organizers of the aid, said that Israeli commandos dropped from a helicopter onto the deck of one of the ships and "immediately opened fire on unarmed civilians."

I'm sure the truth is neither, but somewhere in the middle. It would not be hard to imagine the Israeli soldiers shooting after one of them got clubbed. They always react with ten, or a hundred, times the force used initially against them. It could very well be both parties are at fault.

The main point of contention then is if this happened in International Waters, which it appears it did. Is Israel at war with the countries these ships belong too? No? Then they should have waited till they entered their waters.

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ExpandMyMind

I'm with Israel on this one.

firstly, how can you even tell the difference between soldiers and civilians in that shady excuse for a video? except, of course, for the israeli painted circle.

secondly, you are seriously of the opinion that israel were right to board a turkish ship in international waters? when doing so is illegal.

thirdly, the civilians had done nothing wrong, were in international waters and were boarded (this is also piracy), and yet you believe that they have no right to defend themselves? really?

what kind of logic is this? seriously, where's your head at?

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odas

The ships were boarded 40 miles off of the coast.This is international waters over which Israel has no jurisdiction.

They have committed an Act of State Sponsored Terrorism leading to murder. QED angry.gif

Isn't the Israelie government doing it all the time? Nothing new.

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ninjadude

We are now technically in a state of war with Israel over this. Israel attacked and pirated a NAtO member countries vessel in international waters. NATO is obligated to defend by international treaty. NATO treaty is very specific. Israel is in deep crap.

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TheResearcher

firstly, how can you even tell the difference between soldiers and civilians in that shady excuse for a video? except, of course, for the israeli painted circle.

The guy fast roping off the helicopter is hardly likely to be a civvie, is he? It's not hard to follow, keep up. The video isn't brilliant, but at least it shows the other side of the coin.

secondly, you are seriously of the opinion that israel were right to board a turkish ship in international waters? when doing so is illegal.

Yes, they were in the right, in my opinion. Legally it might not be, but from a common sense point of view then yes it was. Israel is a nation of fighters who do what must be done to ensure their survival; I doubt they care whether it was illegal or not, and rightly so.

thirdly, the civilians had done nothing wrong, were in international waters and were boarded (this is also piracy), and yet you believe that they have no right to defend themselves? really?

Nothing wrong? They were intent upon breaking the blockade. Pre-emptiveness.

what kind of logic is this? seriously, where's your head at?

A better place that yours evidently.

If the Israelis actually wanted to kill them, I highly doubt there would have been any Israeli casualties. As far as I'm concerned, they boarded the ship to prevent it from breaching the blockade. Those on board resisted violently, and were killed.

There were other routes by which that aid could have got to Gaza, but they choose to provoke Israel.

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odas

We are now technically in a state of war with Israel over this. Israel attacked and pirated a NAtO member countries vessel in international waters. NATO is obligated to defend by international treaty. NATO treaty is very specific. Israel is in deep crap.

Ninjadude, you are a genius. I mean it in a very positive way.

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odas

The guy fast roping off the helicopter is hardly likely to be a civvie, is he? It's not hard to follow, keep up. The video isn't brilliant, but at least it shows the other side of the coin.

Yes, they were in the right, in my opinion. Legally it might not be, but from a common sense point of view then yes it was. Israel is a nation of fighters who do what must be done to ensure their survival; I doubt they care whether it was illegal or not, and rightly so.

Nothing wrong? They were intent upon breaking the blockade. Pre-emptiveness.

A better place that yours evidently.

If the Israelis actually wanted to kill them, I highly doubt there would have been any Israeli casualties. As far as I'm concerned, they boarded the ship to prevent it from breaching the blockade. Those on board resisted violently, and were killed.

There were other routes by which that aid could have got to Gaza, but they choose to provoke Israel.

Yes, they were in the right, in my opinion. Legally it might not be, but from a common sense point of view then yes it was. Israel is a nation of fighters who do what must be done to ensure their survival; I doubt they care whether it was illegal or not, and rightly so.

Al Qaida is fighting also to ensure their survival and they also do not care whether it's the illegal way. Do you support them too and why not?

Sorry, I answered the question for you already. Guess it is not important if something is illegal, it's who does it.

No, no, no.... we are not all equal. Some of us are above the law. For how long though?

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Ryinrea

They are trying to spin this with any reasonable thing they can fine to down play stuff they did. People who justify this carnage are ingression to the fact that the idf attacked the flotilla in international water.

This flotilla was highly publicized, and the fact Custom people cleared them, and checked them out of their countries they went from in the first place is what I find amazing that somehow they missed sling shots :rolleyes:. The IDF new full well what was in those ships, and they didn't need to confront the flotilla, if they were expecting trouble, since it would make them look bad in the first place. The IDF began firing even before sliding down the rope on the helicopter, so they weren't under attack.

The people in the ship were defending themselves from pirates who attacked their boats in international waters.

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TheResearcher

Yes, they were in the right, in my opinion. Legally it might not be, but from a common sense point of view then yes it was. Israel is a nation of fighters who do what must be done to ensure their survival; I doubt they care whether it was illegal or not, and rightly so.

Al Qaida is fighting also to ensure their survival and they also do not care whether it's the illegal way. Do you support them too and why not?

Sorry, I answered the question for you already. Guess it is not important if something is illegal, it's who does it.

No, no, no.... we are not all equal. Some of us are above the law. For how long though?

There's a big difference, it's worrying that I have to explain it. One illegal act is not equal to another. I do not detest Al Qaeda because they act illegally, but instead because they target innocent people and my country's soldiers.

Sure if Israel had just straight out sunk the ships with no warning, or sent suicide bombers out, then your statement would ring true; but they did not.

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ninjadude

There's a big difference, it's worrying that I have to explain it. One illegal act is not equal to another. I do not detest Al Qaeda because they act illegally, but instead because they target innocent people and my country's soldiers.

So the people on the ships were not innocent? I'm amazed at your defense of Israel being that they can do anything they want to survive. That is morally wrong. And now apparently they have violated international law by committing piracy on the open seas.

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danielost

and just to mention - this has been condemned worldwide, from russia and china, to spain and others. it hasn't yet been condemned by the obama administration though... need to wait until the israeli prime minister leaves US soil before they can open their mouths on that one...

let us now see israel do what it, by far, does best - spin.

he isnt in the usa, he was in canada.

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Ryinrea

So just because Israel warned them means this is justified? This is not justified no matter what people say NATO had expected the ships thoroughly their were no weapons on board, and they attacked on international waters as well

They shot first.

Edited by Ryinrea

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