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Ryinrea

TYT on the GAZA raid

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Agent X

From an AP article:

Israel has urged the activists to bring the ship to the southern Israeli port of Ashdod and promised to transfer all cargo save any weapons or weapons components. The activists rejected the Israeli offer.

Gal said Israel has "no desire to board the ship. If the ship decides to sail to the (southern Israeli) port of Ashdod, then we will ensure its safe arrival and will not board it."

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20100604/D9G4HSU02.html

So it makes wonder if Israel is starting to change its tune.

But I wish people would stop antagonizing Israel. They are not being very smart. And it shows they do not understand the entire situation and see only the Gazans as the victims when they are not.

Edited by Agent X

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Solipsi Rai

Has the assailants on the flotilla were armed? One of them assaulted a IDF officer with a metal pipe. The video shown another IDF officer fell down from the ship to the ground! He now has severe brain damage and could be the 10th death of the feud. The ship's port of duty was Turkey and these were Islamists from Turkey, a secular nation under the rise of Islamic fundamentalism and their emotional pull to the Gaza blockade is suspicious, to support the Hamas terrorist groups but claimed the ship only possessed 100 wheelchairs.

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Moon Monkey

From an AP article:

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20100604/D9G4HSU02.html

So it makes wonder if Israel is starting to change its tune.

Israel is not changing its tune, that was the very same offer they made countless times to the turkish flotilla.

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Agent X

Ah, so the real reason to challenge the blockade is about antisemitism.

:angry2:

Edited by Agent X

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danielost

And Israel firing on a UN school doesn't ring a bell, and the house isn't owned by terrorist are you that dense in to the hate all Muslim propaganda that you can't see that they are Civilians homes not terrorist homes that they demolish, or do you see every person in Gaza as a terrorist?

wrong, i read that story, they fired near the school not at it. they were chasing terriosts when they did.

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Erikl

An open letter from an Iranian to the Turkish people... an interesting read before you crown Erdogan's Turkey as the new king of human rights and protector of Palestine:

An Open Letter to Turkey

by Dr. Arash Irandoost

To: Pro-Islamic Turkish Neighbors and former friends From: Iranian Pro Democracy-Anti IRI Activist Re: Erdogan

Ever since you decided to trade in the Secularism of Ataturk for the Islamism of Erdogan, you also seem to have decided to forego your willingness to coexist with non-Muslims on a peaceful basis. These days all we ever seem to get from you, is video clips of your leader, Prime Minister Erdogan, behaving erradically and barking like a dog that its owner carelessly let off the leash. And if you don't know that Erdogan's master lives in Riyadh, then you don't know very much of what goes on in your own country.

But your affairs are your own. If you want to let a fanatic in a cheap suit destroy Turkish nationalism in the name of

You talk about stolen land, when your entire country is stolen land, from Cyprus to Istanbul.

Islam, that's your business. But when he gets into business with terrorist organizations that attack, rape and murder our mothers and sisters (Iranian pro democracy women demonstrators), then it becomes our business. And when a country that persecutes its Kurdish, Assyrian and Armenian citizens, treat Iranian refugees like 3rd class citizens and hands them over to IRI thugs at every opportunity, and works tirelessly to appease a criminal regime, she must remember that we will not forget her erroneous ways.

You say you want an international investigation into the flotilla raid? Sure. Right after you allow an international investigation into that minor matter of Armenian genocide that you've been ducking for quite a while. As the new "standard bearer" in fighting for human rights, I'm sure you will agree that it's only fair that Turkey should undergo the same scrutiny it demands for other countries.

And then we can move on to the more than 10,000 political prisoners in your jails. A number that at times has topped 100,000. An independent investigation could also begin by looking into the torture and murder of political activists such as Engin Ceber. They could meet with representatives of TAYAD, the organization representing the families of prisoners. And they would no doubt be fascinated by the more than 1500 children in your prisoners who are there on "terrorism" charges. Like that 12 year old you arrested in 2008 for singing a Kurdish folk song. So by all means wrap yourselves in the banner of "Human Rights" and it will surely turn it into a noose and strangle you with it.

In Israel, Arabs are a legally recognized minority. Arabic is taught in schools and used as a legally recognized language. Meanwhile Kurdish identity is all but banned in Turkey and Iranian heritage and nationalism is under attack by the Islamist invaders. Kurdish names, folk songs and even the Kurdish language itself has been repressed. Your regime has actually prosecuted and removed officials for simply incorporating a Kurdish phrase into a greeting. You screech self-righteously about the "Palestinian children"-- perhaps we should talk about the hundreds of Kurdish children arrested for throwing stones at protests. Arrested and charged with terrorism. Just more of the thousands of political prisoners of oppressed minorities in your prisons.

And perhaps next time your dog Erdogan gets up to bark up about human rights and gets through lecturing us on the use of force against Islamic terrorists, shall we discuss how many times you used jets to bomb Kurdish rebels who were lightly armed at best. Including in 2008 when you invaded sovereign Iraqi soil in order to continue your genocide of the Kurdish people in cooperation with criminal mullahs of Iran.

You talk about stolen land, when your entire country is stolen land, from Cyprus to Istanbul. Your regime is a racist illegitimate entity based on the oppression of the Kurds, the Armenians, the Assyrians, Iranians, and numerous others. You went directly from being Imperialists to Fascists to Islamists, a truly dubious achievement for any nation. Your history is filled with slavery, ethnic cleansing, genocide and invasion. And that's just in the last century alone. If you had any sanity or shame, you would dig a hole, crawl into it, and hope that no one mentions words like "Minority Rights" or "Territorial Legitimacy" in your presence, instead of trying to use them as a club against Iranians and Israelis (Two nations whose national history predates yours by thousands of years).

But let us get back to your precious Islamist flotilla, decorated with Turkish flags that used to be more than just red versions of the Saudi flag. That ship you filled up with Muslim Brotherhood members and Islamist radicals bound for Gaza. Over in your wonderful nation of boundless freedom, reporters have been put on trial for even interviewing leaders of terrorist groups. You sentenced the head of a Kurdish party to six months in prison for calling the head of the PKK, Mr. Ocalan, instead of just Ocalan. He joins the more than 800 Kurdish politicians you imprisoned in the last year alone. And after all that you actually have the nerve to pretend to be "outraged" when Israel intercepts your flotilla full of political terrorists?

But of course we know how strongly you feel about blockades. Like the time you blockaded Armenia for Sixteen Years. Very well then. If you insist on sending vessels flying the Turkish flag to aid Hamas, perhaps Israel should begin sending tanks flying the Israeli flag to aid the PKK. And when a new democratic Iran is established, we surely will cut the flow of gas and oil to your arid, natural resource starved and useless land. We're not big fans of the PKK, but since you've decided to friend Hamas and IRI murderers, then what's good for the turkey, just might be good for the gander. Or perhaps for every boat flying the Turkish flag that is sent to Gaza, Israel should donate a million to the Iranian pro democracy movement and PKK. I wonder how along IRI could last with direct financial help form Israel.

And then there's the Republic of Cyprus. They might benefit from significantly upgraded air defenses. While the US insists on equalizing weapons sales to Turkey and Greece, Israel just might have something tastier to offer to one side. And the citizens of the Republic of Cyprus might actually be able to sleep peacefully in their beds, instead of being intimidated by savages showing off their F-16's over their heads.

Oh I know, what you're going to say. This means war. But you might want to reconsider. And what exactly was the last war you won single-handedly? And no, bombing starving Kurdish rebels from the air, or occupying Cyprus doesn't count. And how long could you fight that war, before a domestic Kurdish insurgency overthrows your little empire. If that doesn't happen, you might want to think about the big Russian bear at your back. The bear has been eyeing you for a long time now. And with your military engaged in a disastrous war for the Great Caliphate, your borders would be temptingly open. And who exactly would bail you out then?

Oh I know you've made many great news friends, such as Ahmadinejad and that fat king in the Arabian Desert, who tells your Erdogan when to jump and how high., but if you think mullahs care about their Sunni brethren, you've got another surprise coming. Meanwhile old Abdullah in the desert can't even protect himself without the US Marines. And if you think Obama would send them in to save your asses, you've got another thing coming. I'm sure if there were Russian tanks headed to Ankara, he'd make a vocal statement about it. And Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov would pretend not to laugh while hanging up the phone.

There is of course the European Union. Last time Russia pulled that trick, it was Britain that bailed you out in the Crimean War. But these days Her M(N)ajesty's Empire isn't quite in the same shape it used to be. Sure Cameron, Clegg and Harman will lick Erdogan's feet. But none of them want to be the next Tony Blair either. Germany doesn't like you very much anymore. Perhaps that time when it got enmeshed in WW1 to protect your Ottoman Empire may have put them off. Or your internal campaign of subversion exploiting Germany's horde of Turkish laborers. What are you left with then? France, Italy or perhaps Austria will forget that whole pesky Gates of Vienna thing and this time ride to your rescue.

No, when Russian commandos are ripping off your wife's head scarf-- there will be no one left to save you. Not your newfound allies, or Erdogan who will take the first plane to Riyadh, with as much of the 18 billion in gold and cash he stole from Iran as his sweaty hands can shove into the pockets of his cheap suit. And just think of it, as the Hagia Sophia church that you turned into a mosque, will become a church again. Istanbul will once again be Constantinople, which means a certain catchy 20's song will require a rewrite. Of course it may not happen exactly that way. But something close to it might happen. Erdogan's plan to change Turkey into a Muslim country will not succeed if alert pro democracy and secular Turks who have seen the human rights violation under Islam in Iran, have something to say in the next elections.

So when that day of reckoning comes, you will find that you have made enemies of former allies such as pro democracy Iranians, Israel and the US-- and that the new allies Erdogan has found for you in Islamic Republic and Syria would prefer a Russian controlled Turkey, that has no chance of ever reverting to a Kemalist government. And Erdogan's godfather in Saudi Arabia commands oil money, not troops. And while he might be willing to sink Turkey for the sake of Islam, perhaps there are Turks who value their nation, more than Islamism. If not, you can look forward to Erdogan "reforming" your country, until it has the military might of Pakistan, the literacy level of Saudi Arabia and the poverty rate of Egypt and rapist reputation of Iran’s mullahs. It is of course your choice.

People have the right to choose their destiny, for good or ill. And if you find that this letter is filled with contempt, it is a contempt fully merited by a regime that seeks to cloak its shameful betrayal of a former allies in the guise of human rights, when it brutally suppresses the rights of its own minorities. You may wish to go on dancing to the tune being played by Erdogan, to sheet music composed in Riyadh and Tehran. It is a very good tune. Filled with hate, violence and religious fanaticism. That also is your choice. But know that whatever you have was bought and paid by your ancestors who understood that Turkey would either modernize out of the gutter of Islam, or it would be washed away by the colonial tide. Your power does not come from Islam, it comes from the bread crusts of civilization that fall from the table of Europe and ineptitude of the corrupt mullahs of Iran. Abandon them for the red hued madness of the Jihad, and you will not rule over an empire, but over a wasteland. If you doubt that, look to the south and to the east. Look to the desert. You came from there once. And if you throw away your once secular and democratic country for the fanatical madness of Islam-- you will return there again.

Sincerely,

You secular pro democracy Iranian former friend.

Link can be found here.

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Agent X

Love it.

:tu:

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Moon Monkey

Interesting example, but I presume you just linked the first report that suited your argument without having done any real research as this is well known to have been another incorrect initial report due to the media leaping to believe Hamas and put down by the UN later as having been a 'clerical error'.

At the end of April 2009 the UN released a report, corrobarated by the PCHR, that 12 people died in this incident, not 40+, and that they died outside the school, although it is thought some shrapnel did enter the grounds. The only difference between UN, PCHR and israeli reports of the incident is that Israel claims that 9 of the 12 were known Hamas operatives and the PCHR says it was 'several'. Further there are many, many eyewitness reports from local residents that Hamas were firing mortars from the school.

I don't expect you to pay any attention to the actual facts and instead you will just move on to perform another drive-by posting on a subject you seem to know little about and it seems are unwilling to really research.

cough....still waiting for the facts from that link.

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Ryinrea

Moon that weird I put up something I had a whole list of facts :unsure2: something must have not gone through. ummmmm must have not gone through

I just post the facts again, if I have too

Three members of the same Palestinian family were killed last night whilst taking shelter in an UNRWA school designated as a temporary refuge from the violence. Well before the current fighting, the UN had given to the Israeli authorities the GPS co-ordinates of all its installations in Gaza, including the UNRWA school which was struck.

The link too a UN Staement about these attacks

From this statements, it said this was one of many Schools that have been bombed

The head of the UN Palestinian refugee agency, John Ging, said three shells landed at the perimeter of the school. "It was entirely inevitable if artillery shells landed in that area there would be a high number of casualties," he said. He said UN staff vetted those Palestinians who sought shelter at the school. "So far we've not had violations by militants of our facilities," he said, though responding to questions he accepted there had been clashes between Hamas and the Israeli army in the area.

No Hamas fighter were in the bombed Gaza School

Edited by Ryinrea

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Moon Monkey

Moon that weird I put up something I had a whole list of facts :unsure2: something must have not gone through. ummmmm must have not gone through

I just post the facts again, if I have too

The link too a UN Staement about these attacks

From this statements, it said this was one of many Schools that have been bombed

The head of the UN Palestinian refugee agency, John Ging, said three shells landed at the perimeter of the school. "It was entirely inevitable if artillery shells landed in that area there would be a high number of casualties," he said. He said UN staff vetted those Palestinians who sought shelter at the school. "So far we've not had violations by militants of our facilities," he said, though responding to questions he accepted there had been clashes between Hamas and the Israeli army in the area.

No Hamas fighter were in the bombed Gaza School

For the love of God....you just can't seem to get it at all. Ok as simple as I can.

The links you have just posted are all dated 6th and 7th of Jan 2009 when the media was jumping all over the Hamas story. The UN and PCHR reports, which agreed with the israeli investigation, came out in April 2009 and shown it to be a load of rubbish. I will start your homework for you:

The al-Fakhura School incident refers to events that took place nearby a United Nations run school of al-Fakhura located in the Jabaliya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip on January 6, 2009 during the Gaza War.[4] In response to alleged militant gunfire coming from beside the school, the IDF fired upon the targets that the UN and several NGOs say killed 42, 41 of them civilians, and that according to the IDF killed 9 Hamas militants and 3 noncombatants.[5][6][7][8][9][10] In April 2009, PCHR listed 12 people as killed "near" the school and another 8 "opposite" the school.[11] Several people listed as civilians in the PCHR report are claimed by Hamas as its fighters according to Israeli think tank ICT.[12] In the last week of January, the UN explicitly clarified that no deaths occurred within the building itself and that the rounds struck the street outside the school. A "clerical error" in UN reports had previously stated otherwise.[13]

Several news reports initially stated that the attack directly hit the school itself, and that the victims had taken refuge there to escape the fighting between the IDF and Palestinian militants.[5][6][14] The response, before it was learned that the school itself was not attacked, lead to a renewed push for a cease-fire in the Gaza War.[6][7] The attack had created a public outcry and prompted condemnation from Secretary General of the United Nations Ban Ki Moon, members of the news media, and international aid agencies.[14] Numerous testimonies from local residents confirmed later that militants fired mortars from a location close to the school compound and that there were no fatalities inside the school.[15][16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhura_school_incident

Surely you can do your own reading of sources from here on.

Edited by Moon Monkey

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Agent X
International_Law_Flowchart.jpg] Edited by Agent X

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Ryinrea

For the love of God....you just can't seem to get it at all. Ok as simple as I can.

The links you have just posted are all dated 6th and 7th of Jan 2009 when the media was jumping all over the Hamas story. The UN and PCHR reports, which agreed with the israeli investigation, came out in April 2009 and shown it to be a load of rubbish. I will start your homework for you:

The al-Fakhura School incident refers to events that took place nearby a United Nations run school of al-Fakhura located in the Jabaliya refugee camp in the Gaza Strip on January 6, 2009 during the Gaza War.[4] In response to alleged militant gunfire coming from beside the school, the IDF fired upon the targets that the UN and several NGOs say killed 42, 41 of them civilians, and that according to the IDF killed 9 Hamas militants and 3 noncombatants.[5][6][7][8][9][10] In April 2009, PCHR listed 12 people as killed "near" the school and another 8 "opposite" the school.[11] Several people listed as civilians in the PCHR report are claimed by Hamas as its fighters according to Israeli think tank ICT.[12] In the last week of January, the UN explicitly clarified that no deaths occurred within the building itself and that the rounds struck the street outside the school. A "clerical error" in UN reports had previously stated otherwise.[13]

Several news reports initially stated that the attack directly hit the school itself, and that the victims had taken refuge there to escape the fighting between the IDF and Palestinian militants.[5][6][14] The response, before it was learned that the school itself was not attacked, lead to a renewed push for a cease-fire in the Gaza War.[6][7] The attack had created a public outcry and prompted condemnation from Secretary General of the United Nations Ban Ki Moon, members of the news media, and international aid agencies.[14] Numerous testimonies from local residents confirmed later that militants fired mortars from a location close to the school compound and that there were no fatalities inside the school.[15][16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhura_school_incident

Surely you can do your own reading of sources from here on.

You don't get it do you firing, and killing people on UN territory is a crime, since they don't take stuff like that in too account.

And This also they didn't even take it in too account, and killed almost 40 freaking people

“While they did not attack the school directly, they have to take into account civilians there. Becausethey didn’t take that into account, and they knew the shells would fragment, they didn’t take care with civilian lives,” he said. “They bear the responsibility. Under international law, if you don’t take all measures to respect civilians, you bear responsibility.”

In this article in the New York Time IT STATES 25 yards away from the school thought in a court house 25 yards from the school, and this would be in miles about 0.01420 Miles

Hanan Abu Khajib, 39, said that Hamas fired just outside the school compound, probably from the secluded courtyard of a house across the street, 25 yards from the school.

:mellow:

The below picture is a child from the school Your comments are pathetic as all ways why don't you care that people are dieing while children are getting hurt in the process, because of this insane conflict these two governments are raging. I got the picture from the Daily mail

article-1106542-02F6B4D9000005DC-272_468x328.jpg

Yes Israel has a right to defend it self just not by targeting Schools, or UN Shelters/Buildings.

Edited by Ryinrea

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Moon Monkey

You don't get it do you firing, and killing people on UN territory is a crime, since they don't take stuff like that in too account.

And This also they didn't even take it in too account, and killed almost 40 freaking people

In this article in the New York Time IT STATES 25 yards away from the school thought in a court house 25 yards from the school, and this would be in miles about 0.01420 Miles

:mellow:

The below picture is a child from the school Your comments are pathetic as all ways why don't you care that people are dieing while children are getting hurt in the process, because of this insane conflict these two governments are raging. I got the picture from the Daily mail

article-1106542-02F6B4D9000005DC-272_468x328.jpg

Yes Israel has a right to defend it self just not by targeting Schools, or UN Shelters/Buildings.

Oh my God...do you even read what you reply to ? I lost my patience last time we had this type of back and forth and questioned your intelligence and ability to reason and now I remember why. Anyway, I will persevere.

The palestinian human rights centre and the UN reports both said that Israel did not attack the school. This was based on numerous palestinian and UN eyewitnesses. The shells landed close to the UN school from where numerous palestinian and UN eyewitnesses attest Hamas had been mortaring from.

It didn't kill 40 people. Repeat, 40 people did not die in or near the school.

The NY Times article and the Daily Mail picture were published on Jan 7th and 16th, long before the UN and PCHR reports came out and used Hamas pictures and accounts as the war was still continuing at that time. Remember there were no foreign journalists in Gaza at the time just Hamas controlled gazan media.

How can there be a picture of a child from the school when the school wasn't hit ?

This is getting ridiculous again but I am going to stay with it. If you are having trouble please highlight the words or phrases you don't understand and I will try to simplify.

In closing...Israel did not target or hit the school. This is the UN, PCHR and paelestinian eyewitnesses talking.

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Moon Monkey

Hey Ryinea where have you gone. I was hoping for some tangible proof that you had finally understood that what you posted as fact was Hamas propaganda from the fog of war and complete BS. Or have you 'driven-by' ?

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Moon Monkey

So Ryinrea...I take it your policy IS to post Hamas propaganda and then disappear from the thread when asked to back your posts up. You should be ashamed to keep posting on the topic.

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Agent X

By the way here's a counter point:

Transcript:

Israel Navy: "Mavi Marmara, you are approaching an area of hostilities which is under a naval blockade. The Gaza area coastal region and Gaza harbor are closed to all maritime traffic. The Israeli government supports delivery of humanitarian supplies to the civilian population in the Gaza Strip and invites you to enter the Ashdod port. Delivery of supplies in accordance with the authorities' regulations will be through the formal land crossings and under your observation, after which you can return to your home ports on the vessels on which you have arrived."

Response: "Negative, negative."

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Moon Monkey

cough..Ryinrea, I think you have forgotten this thread. Maybe you are too busy starting new ones. Still waiting.

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