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Erikl

Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

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Erikl

Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz

Audio: IDF soldiers warn flotilla vessels they are nearing area under naval blockade, latter respond with anti-Semitic slurs

Ynet

Published: 06.04.10, 19:56 / Israel News

The IDF released on Friday an audio reproduction of the moments before Monday's raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.

In it, the soldiers can be heard warning the flotilla that its vessels are nearing an area under naval blockade. They are answered by calls of "Go back to Auschwitz" and "Don't forget 9/11 guys".

First source.

And in case some of you think it's a biased, pro-Israeli source, here's the article from NY Daily News:

Here.

Now, is anyone here suprised? The flotila of "peace" is beginning to be seen more and more as what it really was - the flotila of Jihad, meant to let few bunch of anti-semitic terrorist activists and their moral suppurters from the radical left to clash with Israeli soldiers and humaliate Israel in the international arena.

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TheResearcher

I couldn't be less surprised.

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ExpandMyMind

:no:

when all else fails, defame the enemy's character. a wondrous tactic that is often employed by those choosing a pro israeli stance (as well as groups like the ADL and other israeli arms of PR). it deflects attention away from the true matters at hand, while painting the target in a negative light. if you weren't so transparent then i would give you a pat on the back for a job well done. oh, well, nice attempt anyways.

The flotila of "peace" is beginning to be seen more and more as what it really was - the flotila of Jihad, meant to let few bunch of anti-semitic terrorist activists and their moral suppurters from the radical left to clash with Israeli soldiers and humaliate Israel in the international arena.

the only people who would fall for this patter, are the ones who's heads were still up their arses when they read it. your objectives are blatantly transparent when you consider that every claim you have made is extremely weak - at best - yet portrayed as beyond a doubt fact.

as for the audio recording. well, how can we be expected to take any sort of 'evidence' as legitimate when the same the people who were involved the crime, are the ones investigating it? it's truly ridiculous. a couple of questions for you. do you feel that it is possible that this tape could have been tampered with, or even completely fabricated?

but more importantly, how does this even relate to the actual matter at hand? when all you have is baseless, unproven accusations coming from a source that hardly has an impartial stance in the matter.

see what i mean about your method of distraction?

Edited by expandmymind

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Erikl

Expandmymind, your response is a perfect example of total blindness of the radical left. When the bare and utter truth is presented to them, and they will not find it suitable to their world view, they will justify anything - even outright racism.

Israel is a democracy and it's judical system is highly respectable abroad. How come you can accept American or British investigating atrocities committed by their soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you delegitimize Israel? I mean the radical left put us in Catch 22 - they demand an inqury, but when there is one - they claim it's illegitimate, because we were the ones investigating ourselves. How come when a non-democratic organization such as Hamas or the PLO conduct investigations involving the IDF and come to the constant conclusion that we commit massacres and genocide against them, these claims are legitimate and are accepted with open arms by the radical left, but when a democracy with a well structured judical system does an investigation, it's bogus. Hypocricy at it's best.

Edited by Erikl

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Agent X

I'm not surprised. But I am saddened.

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ExpandMyMind

Expandmymind, your response is a perfect example of total blindness of the radical left. When the bare and utter truth is presented to them, and they will not find it suitable to their world view, they will justify anything - even outright racism.

not only am i now left, but a radical, also? that's defamation of character right there. exactly what i mentioned one post ago! it's so very transparent though. and for the record, i am neither left, nor a radical but we can all see what you were attempting to do there.

Israel is a democracy and it's judical system is highly respectable abroad. How come you can accept American or British investigating atrocities committed by their soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you delegitimize Israel?

and yet another blind assumption. have you even read any of my posts? looked at any of the threads i've started? if you had you would realise why i don't even feel i need to address this accusation any further than i already have.

I mean the radical left put us in Catch 22 - they demand an inqury, but when there is one - they claim it's illegitimate, because we were the ones investigating ourselves.

have you not heard of an independent inquiry? do you fail to understand the necessity of such an investigation? especially with a case so heated.

How come when a non-democratic organization such as Hamas or the PLO conduct investigations involving the IDF and come to the constant conclusion that we commit massacres and genocide against them, these claims are legitimate and are accepted with open arms by the radical left, but when a democracy with a well structured judical system does an investigation, it's bogus. Hypocricy at it's best.

usually because there has been an independent inquiry (that thing i mentioned earlier) carried out by the UN or other organisations. and 'a democracy with a well structured judicial system that also has a vested interest in the results of the investigation' is how you should have worded it. it would be far more accurate and hopefully it would allow you to see my point. well, i actually have no doubt that you see my point, but admitting so would defeat the purpose of you debating on this forum now, wouldn't it?

Edited by expandmymind

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danielost

not only am i now left, but a radical, also? that's defamation of character right there. exactly what i mentioned one post ago! it's so very transparent though. and for the record, i am neither left, nor a radical but we can all see what you were attempting to do there.

and yet another blind assumption. have you even read any of my posts? looked at any of the threads i've started? if you had you would realise why i don't even feel i need to address this accusation any further than i already have.

have you not heard of an independent inquiry? do you fail to understand the necessity of such an investigation? especially with a case so heated.

usually because there has been an independent inquiry (that thing i mentioned earlier) carried out by the UN or other organisations. and 'a democracy with a well structured judicial system that also has a vested interest in the results of the investigation' is how you should have worded it. it would be far more accurate and hopefully it would allow you to see my point. well, i actually have no doubt that you see my point, but admitting so would defeat the purpose of you debating on this forum now, wouldn't it?

the un is anti-isreal.

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Ryinrea

People seem to forget that this raid was conditioned in International waters. Had anyone else done this it would be labeled Terrorism, or piracy by everyone.

Plus the fact the Israeli Navy boats say the peace boats were the ones who said these things why aren't we getting other protesters who are saying other wise?

You call expandmymind a Left winger bawwwaaaaaawaaa that the lamest put down ever, because I am a leftist, and a proud pacifist who is against this war I think both side or doing wrong.

It is just me, or does it seem something like this happens every time they go too talk about peace. Ummmmmmm I think Israel botched the whole ordeal.

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Corp

There are days when I think neither side wants peace and we should just sit back and let them butcher each other. We'll deal with whoever survives.

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Rosewin

And in case some of you think it's a biased, pro-Israeli source, here's the article from NY Daily News:

Here.

The NY Daily News is owned by Mortimer Zuckerman.

Zuckerman is also an active supporter of Israeli and international Jewish causes. Between 2001 and 2003, Zuckerman was the chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations.

...

In their 2006 paper The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy, John Mearsheimer, political science professor at the University of Chicago, and Stephen Walt, academic dean of the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, named Zuckerman a member of the media wing of the "Israeli lobby" in the United States.

...

President George W. Bush appointed Zuckerman to serve on the Honorary Delegation to accompany him to Jerusalem for the celebration of the 60th anniversary of the State of Israel in May 2008.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortimer_Zuckerman

No dice this is more outright lies and Israeli propaganda. Unless major news outlets also report these stories they are easy to see for what they are. If any actual terrorists were on board the Marmara then Israel would have kept them in custody. By the mere fact that Israel has agreed to allow them all to be deported shows none have any terrorist links.

The purpose of stories like this is to have others fear the activist movement if they can be shown to have terrorists among them.

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Ryinrea

There are days when I think neither side wants peace and we should just sit back and let them butcher each other. We'll deal with whoever survives.

Me too their are time I THINK this as well

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Rosewin

Now for a more different approach: The reason threads like this fail is because while some propagandists are willing to use Auschwitz, which has been emotionally seared onto our collective consciousness, for maximum emotional effect, while their claims themselves contain little truth. Their only purpose is emotional rises and if someone does not fact check they will walk away believing it was all true.

Hedy Epstein, who was actually a concentration camp survivor, lost all but two of her family members in Auschwitz. Now she would have been aboard the Marmara herself, had planned it, but could not due to her health.

Edited by Rosewin

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Fluffybunny

I tire of the mentality that runs between israel and their supports and the palestinians and their supporters. It appears to me that too many of both groups lack a level head and cannot hold a conversation without making huge assumptions and letting biased accusations fly, creating situations that develop into all but certain disastrous conflicts.

When you can ask a question or make a statement in observation of one side of the other without one of the sides pulling either the "anti-Semite" or "palestinian hater" card.

Until both sides see that both sides are at fault in this continued conflict, it will never end. This tit-for-tat, perpetual shootout will always seem logical to each side...

If it were up to me, the US would wash our collective hands of the whole situation and save the millions we give away year after year to try and settle a problem that doesn't want to be settled. The sooner we remove ourselves from the conflict and the middle east in general, the better off we will be as a country.

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susieice

:tu:

I tire of the mentality that runs between israel and their supports and the palestinians and their supporters. It appears to me that too many of both groups lack a level head and cannot hold a conversation without making huge assumptions and letting biased accusations fly, creating situations that develop into all but certain disastrous conflicts.

When you can ask a question or make a statement in observation of one side of the other without one of the sides pulling either the "anti-Semite" or "palestinian hater" card.

Until both sides see that both sides are at fault in this continued conflict, it will never end. This tit-for-tat, perpetual shootout will always seem logical to each side...

If it were up to me, the US would wash our collective hands of the whole situation and save the millions we give away year after year to try and settle a problem that doesn't want to be settled. The sooner we remove ourselves from the conflict and the middle east in general, the better off we will be as a country.

:tu: To support the hatred that comes from both sides of this argument is a digrace to our country and an insult to the bravery of our military.

Edited by susieice

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Erikl

Fluffy, I'm sorry but I disagree. For some reason, people tend to look at the mideast conflict as Jews hate Arabs and Arabs hate Jews, and as little boyish fight of ego and honour. If that was the case, it would have ended much sooner. The facts, that many here ignore, is that ever since Jews started to return en mass to their ancestral homeland, Arabs didn't want us here. Even before there was Israel, back in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936-39, 1941 - of those years Arabs perpetuted pogroms against Jews in the Land of Israel, both against Zionist Jews and against the ancient Jewish communities that still remained here. The founder of the Palestinian movement, Mufti Haj Amin Al-Husseini, was a Nazi collaborator and with his hatred to Jews even commanded two muslim waffen-SS brigades in the balkan, where they murdered tens of thousands of Jews. After the war he went back to the middle east carrying with him that Nazi mentality, which is unfortunately hard-wired into the Palestinian national movement. Even the current Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, has a Ph.D in Holocaust Denial.

And what is deeply concerning is that even on this thread, Palestinian supporters or Israeli bashers managed to justify pure, neo-Nazi antisemitism and turn it all in the way to still make the flotilla look like your average hippies trying to simply protest the monsterous Israel. I'm afraid their minds have gone down the drain... :no:

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ExpandMyMind

Fluffy, I'm sorry but I disagree. For some reason, people tend to look at the mideast conflict as Jews hate Arabs and Arabs hate Jews, and as little boyish fight of ego and honour. If that was the case, it would have ended much sooner. The facts, that many here ignore, is that ever since Jews started to return en mass to their ancestral homeland, Arabs didn't want us here. Even before there was Israel, back in 1920, 1921, 1929, 1936-39, 1941 - of those years Arabs perpetuted pogroms against Jews in the Land of Israel, both against Zionist Jews and against the ancient Jewish communities that still remained here. The founder of the Palestinian movement, Mufti Haj Amin Al-Husseini, was a Nazi collaborator and with his hatred to Jews even commanded two muslim waffen-SS brigades in the balkan, where they murdered tens of thousands of Jews. After the war he went back to the middle east carrying with him that Nazi mentality, which is unfortunately hard-wired into the Palestinian national movement. Even the current Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, has a Ph.D in Holocaust Denial.

i fail to see what this has to do with fluffy's input?

but to address it, your post was full of half truths and conspiracy theories (as far as i'm aware, the al-husseini/nazi relation exists mainly because of one, single photo and from this photo a massive campaign of disinformation has been waged across the media) and is painted in the most one sided light i have ever seen or read. care to back any of what you have claimed up with documented facts? or care to explain at least how they relate to anything at all? it seems to me everything you have posted has been done so simply to further your agenda to drive the topic away from the real matters at hand, while panting your target/s in a negative light.

And what is deeply concerning is that even on this thread, Palestinian supporters or Israeli bashers managed to justify pure, neo-Nazi antisemitism and turn it all in the way to still make the flotilla look like your average hippies trying to simply protest the monsterous Israel. I'm afraid their minds have gone down the drain... :no:

:lol: and your objectives become clear again. you are now suggesting that this flotilla was really about antisemitism? i like how you threw in the 'neo-nazi' just for added emphasis but your point is really quite laughable. i'm not sure how anyone could possibly buy into that, considering there is no real evidence to back it up. i'm also not sure how anyone could fail to see your blatantly obvious agenda.

Edited by expandmymind

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Erikl

but to address it, your post was full of half truths and conspiracy theories (as far as i'm aware, the al-husseini/nazi relation exists mainly because of one, single photo and from this photo a massive campaign of disinformation has been waged across the media) and is painted in the most one sided light i have ever seen or read. care to back any of what you have claimed up with documented facts? or care to explain at least how they relate to anything at all? it seems to me everything you have posted has been done so simply to further your agenda to drive the topic away from the real matters at hand, while panting your target/s in a negative light.

Half turths and conspiracy theories? god, you have to learn history before you jump into the Middle East story. I think that's the biggest problem with the anti-Israelis these days - they ignore the fact nor do they want to learn them, and repeatedly shout that Israelis are war criminals. What's the latest lingo used in the acedemic anti-Israeli/radical left? oh yeah, that Israel in an apartheid state. I guess they never stop to think how come Israel can have 20% of it's citizens being Palestinians, while the Palestinians in every demand to a state of their own, demand it to be Juden Rein ("clean of Jews"). But ofcourse Israelis are the racist ones. Please tell me - how come even the current autonmous regime of the Palestinians, isn't a democracy, but rulled by fascist gangs. What? no answer? just more Israeli bashing? no suprise. It's sad to see people who live under democracies, betraying their values and support dictators or authoritarian regimes, and actually believe the propaganda they produce.

As for what I said - what's not true about it? The pogroms carried on by Arabs in the British Mandate of Palestine? check these links: 1921 Jaffa riots, 1929 Hebron massacre. Ofcourse, it's all the result of Zionist evil occupation, no? Oh wait - it's getting better! even the PLO and it's main branch, Al-Fatah, have surely been created to fight the brutal occupation of 1967? Then how come they were created, respectively, in 1964 and 1958? what occupied territories did they try to liberate?

As for the biography of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Mohammad (Haj) Amin al-Husayni, please, try not to embarrass yourself too much. You just dismissed a top ranking Nazi who was wanted by allied forces and was found guilty at the Nuremberg trials right after the war.

For an in-depth story, check here.

And a favourite quote:

November 2, 1943 Himmler's telegram to Mufti: 'To the Grand Mufti: The National Socialist movement of Greater Germany has, since its inception, inscribed upon its flag the fight against the world Jewry. It has therefore followed with particular sympathy the struggle of freedom-loving Arabs, especially in Palestine, against Jewish interlopers. In the recognition of this enemy and of the common struggle against it lies the firm foundation of the natural alliance that exists between the National Socialist Greater Germany and the freedom-loving Muslims of the whole world. In this spirit I am sending you on the anniversary of the infamous Balfour declaration my hearty greetings and wishes for the successful pursuit of your struggle until the final victory.' Reichsfuehrer S.S. Heinrich Himmler

And ofcourse:

Beginning in 1941, Al-Husayni visited Bosnia, and convinced Muslim leaders that a Muslim S.S. division would be in the interest of Islam. In spite of these and other propaganda efforts, only half of the expected 20,000 to 25,000 Muslims volunteered."[138] Al-Husayni was involved in the organization and recruitment of Bosnian Muslims into several divisions of the Waffen SS and other units. The largest was the 13th "Handschar" division of 21,065 men, which conducted operations against Communist partisans in the Balkans from February 1944,[139] committing numerous atrocities against their traditional ethnic rivals the local Christian Serbs.[127]

As for the Nazi roots of the Al Fatah movement, founded by Yasser Arafat, see the following:

Skorzeny had also been spending time in Egypt. In 1952 the country had been taken over by General Mohammed Naguib. Skorzeny was sent to Egypt the following year by former General Reinhard Gehlen, who was now working for the CIA, to act as Naguib's military advisor. Skorzeny recruited a staff made up of former SS officers to train the Egyptian army. Among these officers were SS General Wilhelm Farmbacher, Panzer General Oskar Munzel, Leopold Gleim, head of the Gestapo Department for Jewish Affairs in Poland, and Joachim Daemling, former chief of the Gestapo in Düsseldorf joined Skorzeny in Egypt. In addition to training the army, Skorzeny also trained Arab volunteers in commando tactics for possible use against British troops stationed in the Suez Canal zone. Several Palestinian refugees also received commando training, and Skorzeny planned their initial strikes into Israel via the Gaza Strip in 1953-1954. One of these Palestinians was Yasser Arafat.[15]

The rest of the article about Otto Skorzeny, an SS-Obersturmbannführer for the third reich, can be found here:

Otto Skorzeny.

But ofcourse that's just half-truths and conspiracy theories, nope?

As for the Palestinian flag itself - it is an exact copy of the Ba'ath Flag, and not surprisingly since the two movements, together with the Young Egypt party, were all infected with same nationalist, fascist ideas. Even today, the largest political party in Syria, after the Ba'ath and allied together with the Ba'ath, is the Syrian Social Nationalist Party. This is their flag:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Syrian_Social_Nationalist_Party.svg.

:lol: and your objectives become clear again. you are now suggesting that this flotilla was really about antisemitism? i like how you threw in the 'neo-nazi' just for added emphasis but your point is really quite laughable. i'm not sure how anyone could possibly buy into that, considering there is no real evidence to back it up. i'm also not sure how anyone could fail to see your blatantly obvious agenda.

The best defense is offense? Not in this case. I am not suggesting - I am declaring out loud that the flotilla was all about anti-Israelism, and supporting a Jihadist terrorist regime. And you claim to be of better moral grounds, yet you can't condemn anti-semitic rant as was said by the activists on the flotilla.

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Rosewin

It kind of makes me angry the IDF propaganda responsible for this story is trying to somehow tie the Gaza flotilla activists to the horrors of Auschwitz and 9/11. In this fashion, using them for a propaganda piece, they highly disrespect all the victims.

http://idfspokesperson.com/

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TheResearcher

It kind of makes me angry the IDF propaganda responsible for this story is trying to somehow tie the Gaza flotilla activists to the horrors of Auschwitz and 9/11. In this fashion, using them for a propaganda piece, they highly disrespect all the victims.

http://idfspokesperson.com/

And yet you seem to believe, in your own words, highly unverified accounts in which it was said :

"all peace activists were unarmed and that nobody was carrying any kind or weapon."

Which we know is blatantly untrue.

Why do you not dismiss these accounts as propaganda also? You know what makes me angry? That you would jump to such conclusions and dismiss such serious allegations as propaganda.

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Rosewin

It has since been reported and accepted as fact that some activists on the Marmara did have clubs. In either case Israel is not going to pursue any court cases and is releasing all (if any of them had stabbed a soldier, or shot at one, that would not be the case would it?). On others ships, such as the Greek one, there the activists had no weapons but many were beaten, tazed, needed medical attentions, etc...

...in either case comparing a developing story where the facts take time to develop to my accusation that the IDF is deliberately releasing propaganda and using victims of two tragedies is not quite the same.

Edited by Rosewin

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Erikl

Again, ignore all the facts... why am I not surprise? :rolleyes:

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Doc Socks Junior

Israel was the "ancestral" homeland of the Jews? What, 2000 years ago? I think it's time to face present reality a little bit.

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Ryinrea

Again, ignore all the facts... why am I not surprise? :rolleyes:

Your the one that is ****ing up the facts that the founder of ism is JEWISH.

I am giving you fact other that false facts that the IDF say is the truth, and the man wife wasn't even on the boat in question. I listened to the type, and I too also still can't believe the IDF released this type of prof of anything, but them trying too distorting what happened. I am not ignoring facts the one who is ignoring the facts is you sir. I am a Video editer, and video game designer, so I can tell when something had been falsefiyed

Edited by Ryinrea

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odas

Again, ignore all the facts... why am I not surprise? :rolleyes:

What facts?

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