Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Flotilla passengers: Go back to Auschwitz


Erikl

Recommended Posts

It now appears the intelligence community (two examples have been given) during that era discussed the possibility of the development of such weapons. In either case the information will be sketchy because such development or research into it would be highly classified. One story did appear in The Sunday Times. Nothing more seems to have been mentioned about it. It could appear to be a hoax or the story could have been killed because of the sensitive nature of the material being reported on. There really is not much more.

Some will deny Israel would ever look into an ethnic bioweapon and others will feel that is probably something they would do. What do you think? They would not even look into it?

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 164
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Rosewin

    38

  • Moon Monkey

    27

  • Erikl

    16

  • eqgumby

    12

Top Posters In This Topic

They do have shared genetic markers since they are all Semitic but it would be the genetic markers they do not share that could be exploited.

As I said...

An "Arab Bomb" would cause so much collateral damage, and be political suicide. It's un fathomable.

A weapon like that is an absurd idea. Your doing your best to push that anti-Israeli agenda, I'll give you that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that an ethnic bioweapon would be against the greater interest of the Israeli government as is their past and current conduct but that especially more so.

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can we all keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand and not on other members that you disagree with please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It now appears the intelligence community (two examples have been given) during that era discussed the possibility of the development of such weapons. In either case the information will be sketchy because such development or research into it would be highly classified. One story did appear in The Sunday Times. Nothing more seems to have been mentioned about it. It could appear to be a hoax or the story could have been killed because of the sensitive nature of the material being reported on. There really is not much more.

Some will deny Israel would ever look into an ethnic bioweapon and others will feel that is probably something they would do. What do you think? They would not even look into it?

Whoa there. 'It now appears...' what has that got to do with Israel and what has that got to do with your origianl article ?:

Israel is Developing 'Ethnic Bomb' for Growing Biological Weapons Arsenal

That was your evidence. Yes one story did appear in The Sunday Times, upon which all other stories are based, and it was a HOAX. Repeat. It was a HOAX. Not 'possibly of a sensitive nature'. Thats why I asked you to link something to do with it but instead you ramble back trying to see fire where there is no smoke.

Keep digging...you reveal more than you know.

Edited by Moon Monkey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being that Jews are genetically middle eastern and indistinguishable from other middle eastern populations such as Assyrians, Kurds, Syrians and Lebanese (though different from Palestinians, which are the result of immigration from the entire Arab world during the 19th and early 20th centuries), such a "bomb" would kiil all the Jews in Israel as well.

Also, such level of technology doesn't exist. That's pure science fiction, used to spread trash against Israel. Next they'll be saying Israel developed faster than light air crafts to bomb the Palestinians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can we all keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand and not on other members that you disagree with please.

Thank you, Saru.

Whoa there. 'It now appears...' what has that got to do with Israel and what has that got to do with your origianl article:

Israel is Developing 'Ethnic Bomb' for Growing Biological Weapons Arsenal

That was your evidence. Yes one story did appear in The Sunday Times, upon which all other stories are based, and it was a HOAX. repeat. It was a Hoax. I

Usually journalist who do hoaxes are fired or reprimanded and even that is reported on. Do you have any independent media sources to show and prove it was a hoax?

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you, Saru.

Usually journalist who do hoaxes are fired or reprimanded and even that is reported on. Do you have any independent media sources to show and prove it was a hoax?

:lol:

Good grief. Do you have any to show it wasn't?

:lol:

PS SOMEONE in the flotilla said "Go back to Auschwitz". This was verified by the womans HUSBAND, who was also apparently in the flotilla.

There, BACK ON TOPIC.

My mistake. THIS is from one of your links in this thread:

On hearing the recording Adam Shapiro, co-founder of the International Solidarity Movement, identified the woman's voice as that of his wife Huwaida Arraf, chair of the Free Gaza Movement. However, Arraf was not aboard the Mavi Marmara. She was aboard one of the small passenger vessels in the six-boat flotilla, called Challenger 1.
Edited by eqgumby
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Usually journalist who do hoaxes are fired or reprimanded and even that is reported on. Do you have any independent media sources to show and prove it was a hoax? Or was the story just killed because of the nature of the information. Which is more likely? If you have any sources to contribute to prove your assertion that it was a hoax then it is welcomed.

Actually it is more usual for the person making the claim to prove it using the source or something from the authors of the source or...well anything, but no matter ... and it is a bit rich for you to demand independent sources from me considering where you got the story, but you could have just wiki'd it at some point or googled it using the obvious keywords.

Edited by Moon Monkey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is enough evidence to show the development of such weapons is a possibility according to intelligence sources as provided. There is one story appearing in the press that said Israel was pursuing such technology. That is all I have asserted and it was proven with the sources offered.

Besides that my own personal sentiment is that the current and past Israeli regime would most likely pursue such technology based on their racist ideology of wanting a majority ethnic state.

A few here have claimed it was a hoax but have failed to provide any evidence of that.

My mistake. THIS is from one of your links in this thread:

I linked that? Where?

The recordings were first said to be from the Marmara then the IDF backed off on those claims and said they did not know where they were from. Their editing department most likely.

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is enough evidence to show the development of such weapons is a possibility according to intelligence sources as provided. There is one story appearing in the press that said Israel was pursuing such technology. That is all I have asserted and it was proven with the sources offered.

Besides that my own personal sentiment is that the current Israeli regime would most likely pursue such technology based on their racist ideology of wanting a majority ethnic state.

A few here have claimed it was a hoax but have failed to provide any evidence of that.

We will leave your personal sentiment out of this as that is clear. This was your assertation.

Israel is Developing 'Ethnic Bomb' for Growing Biological Weapons Arsenal

The wiki sources within and a quick search should provide you with plenty of evidence of a hoax, this was debunked the week the Times ran it, hence them not releasing the promised second installment and the authors never talking of it again. Unless you can show differently.

Can you please link the story that says Israel was pursuing such technology then, the actual story, the sources...you know the evidence that this is a true story. Thank you. Oh and by 'sources' I don't mean your original link I mean the original articles with the proof anyone would expect contained within. Thank you.

Edited by Moon Monkey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to doubt the validity of the original story appearing in The Sunday Times that is fine. You do not have to believe it. You have failed to prove your claim that it was a hoax though. We can leave it as that as egggumby seems to want to get back on topic.

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to doubt the validity of the original story appearing in The Sunday Times that is fine. You do not have to believe it. You have failed to prove your claim that it was a hoax though.

It isn't me that doubts it...it has been well known as a hoax for 10 years.

Anyhow why should I have to prove anything, you claimed israel is developing the ethno-bomb, back it up with the source. I have never seen the Sunday Times article, where is it ? You can start a new thread with the 'well referred to on certain websites' Sunday Times article, then we will deal with it there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being that Jews are genetically middle eastern and indistinguishable from other middle eastern populations such as Assyrians, Kurds, Syrians and Lebanese (though different from Palestinians, which are the result of immigration from the entire Arab world during the 19th and early 20th centuries), such a "bomb" would kiil all the Jews in Israel as well.

Did you just totally overlook this, Rosewin, or is biology not your forte.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyhow why should I have to prove anything, you claimed israel is developing the ethno-bomb, back it up with the source.

Well this is just a little more that came up.

Again 'there is enough evidence to show the development of such weapons is a possibility according to intelligence sources as provided. There is one story appearing in the press that said Israel was pursuing such technology. That is all I have asserted and it was proven with the sources offered.' You have claimed it is a hoax but have failed to prove that.

Twelve miles southeast of downtown Tel-Aviv is the Institute for Biological Research. The plant is at the cutting edge of Israel's multi-layered defense system. Within its laboratories and workshops are manufactured a wide range of chemical weapons and biological weapons. The Institute's chemists-some of whom once worked for Soviet KGB or East German Stasi intelligence service-created the poison used to try and kill Khaled Meshal, the leader of the Hamas Islamic fundamentalist group.

The Institute's current research programs include developing a range of pathogens which would be, according to a secret CIA report for William Cohen, U.S. defense secretary, "ethnic-specific." The CIA report claims that Israeli scientists are "trying to exploit medical advances by identifying distinctive genes created by some Arabs to create a genetically modified bacterium or virus."

The report concludes that, "still at the early stages, the intention is to exploit the way viruses and certain bacteria can alter DNA inside their host's living cells." The Institute's research mimics work conducted by South Africa scientists during the apartheid era to create a "pigmentation weapon that will target only black people."

The research was abandoned when Nelson Mandela came to power but at least two of the scientists who worked in the program in South Africa later moved to Israel.

The idea of the Jewish state conducting such research has triggered alarm bells-not least because of the disturbing parallel with genetic experiments conducted by the Nazis. Dedi Zucker, a member of the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, is on record as saying, "We cannot be allowed to create such weapons."

from page 341 of Thomas Gordon's Gideon's Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad

Did you just totally overlook this, Rosewin, or is biology not your forte.

Did you just totally overlook this, Michelle?

They do have shared genetic markers since they are all Semitic but it would be the genetic markers they do not share that could be exploited.

No, biology is not my forte but are you saying it is yours? You might also want to review the above quote from the Gideon's Spies book and specifically the phrase 'distinctive genes'?

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did you just totally overlook this, Michelle?

No, biology is not my forte but are you saying it is yours?

No, it's not mine, but I do know that there are enough genetic markers that it would be almost impossible to distinguish between them and that makes it improbable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, it's not mine, but I do know that there are enough genetic markers that it would be almost impossible to distinguish between them and that makes it improbable.

If you know so then you would have no problem demonstrating so and also citing sources. If not I doubt that is a claim that can be made. Besides it is not the possibility of the eventual creation of such weapons that is at contention but that some research is possibly going into it.

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you know so then you would have no problem demonstrating so and also citing sources. If not I doubt that is a claim that can be made. Besides it is not the possibility of the eventual creation of such weapons that is at contention but that some research is possibly going into it.

No....we have agreed many times in the past and we will just have to disagree on this. You have much more energy to put into this than I ever intend to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well this is just a little more that came up.

Again 'there is enough evidence to show the development of such weapons is a possibility according to intelligence sources as provided. There is one story appearing in the press that said Israel was pursuing such technology. That is all I have asserted and it was proven with the sources offered.' You have claimed it is a hoax but have failed to prove that.

You have not provided a single source, I am not sure how you can even believe you have.

As for "according to a secret CIA report " on page 300 and something:

The book certainly contains many eye-popping claims. Thomas holds Israel's intelligence agency, the Mossad, responsible for the deaths of Princess Diana (whose driver it supposedly pressured to the breaking point); the publishing tycoon Robert Maxwell (whom it supposedly murdered); 241 U.S. Marines in Lebanon in 1983 (about whose planned fate at the hands of Hezbollah it supposedly had advance knowledge); and William Buckley, a CIA agent (whom it supposedly let die so the PLO would take the blame). Thomas's "secret history" also reveals that the Mossad helped the (failed) putsch of Soviet hardliners against Mikhail Gorbachev in 1991, and purposely destroyed the CIA's network in South Africa

There is much more in Gideon's Spies along the same or similar lines. It is, of course, impossible to confirm or disconfirm so-called findings based on secret tape-recordings or miracle computer programs manufactured by corporations obscure except to conspiracy theorists.

In any case, when it comes not to unverifiable assertions but to known and checkable facts, Thomas can hardly be said to inspire confidence. A few examples must suffice.

Thomas's command of Middle East realities is faulty in the extreme. He makes up Arabic words (no dictionary of mine has the word mafafeth, which he mistakenly believes means a meeting house) and mistranslates others (abu, or father, as "voice" being only the most egregious instance). He also routinely garbles common names, referring to Lebanon's Maronite Catholics as Marionites, to the Iranian arms dealer Ghorbanifar as Thorbanifar, and to Saddam Hussein's brother Sab'awi as Sabba'a. Chronology poses a particular stumbling block: Thomas misdates the Mossad's earliest roots by decades, has Richard Helms filling the position of director of Central Intelligence in 1957 (he actually took over in 1966), and calls the Yom Kippur war of 1973 the "second full-scale Arab war" with Israel, somehow forgetting 1967. And so forth.

When it is not indulging in "total nonsense", Gideon's Spies offers an unexceptionable if banal and derivative account of well- known Mossad undertakings, including the placement of Eli Cohen in Damascus in the late 1950's and the 1976 rescue of hostages at Entebbe. But even here, Thomas inexplicably omits some of the organization's truly great feats - notably, its success in securing a copy of Nikita Khrushchev's secret party speech in 1956 repudiating Stalin.

In brief, what is reliable in this book is old-hat, while what is new is utterly unreliable, a mishmash of blather and fantasy. Yet Gideon's Spies is also a dangerous book, and one that is likely to have a continuing impact.

http://www.danielpipes.org/805/gideons-spies-the-secret-history-of-the-mossad

Thats just one review of another of your sources, do you want some more ?

Please provide the Sunday Times article which you keep talking about or anything further on this monumental discovery by the authors or follow ups in other respected publications.....anything really. How can I disprove something that I haven't even seen ? The onus is on you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you know so then you would have no problem demonstrating so and also citing sources. If not I doubt that is a claim that can be made. Besides it is not the possibility of the eventual creation of such weapons that is at contention but that some research is possibly going into it.

It would be easier if, rather than you asking other people to disprove your claims with cited sources, you provided cited sources for your claims...what are these genetic markers that differentiate between jews and arabs ?

Edited by Moon Monkey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

what are these genetic markers that differentiate between jews and arabs ?

I never stated that for sure there were differing genetic markers but it is most likely there is. Whoever is the one who claimed that the development of an ethnic bioweapon is impossible because their genetics are too alike, more or less that was the claim, then it is on them to prove it. I am just saying it is unlikely.

http://www.danielpipes.org/805/gideons-spies-the-secret-history-of-the-mossad

Thats just one review of another of your sources, do you want some more ?

Also if you must know the whole debunking article you quoted and linked was written by Daniel Pipes.

In The Nation, Brooklyn writer Kristine McNeil describes Pipes as an "anti-Arab propagandist" who has built a career out of "distortions... twist[ing] words, quot[ing] people out of context and stretch[ing] the truth to suit his purpose."

...

Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) explained that he was "offended" by Pipes's comments on Islam, and that while "some people call [Pipes] a scholar... this is not the kind of person you want on the USIP." While defending Pipes's nomination, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer distanced Bush from Pipes's views, saying that Bush "disagrees with Pipes about whether Islam is a peaceful religion."'

...

In October, 2001 Pipes said, before the convention of the American Jewish Congress. "I worry very much, from the Jewish point of view, that the presence, and increased stature, and affluence, and enfranchisement of American Muslims, because they are so much led by an Islamist leadership, that this will present true dangers to American Jews."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pipes#Views_on_Islam_and_the_Middle_East

Even so what about the remarks two members of the intelligence community remarked regarding the possibility of such weapons? Including William Cohen. Oh, yeah I guess he was lying right? And we should just believe Daniel Pipes?

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never stated that for sure there were differing genetic markers but it is most likely there is. Whoever is the one who claimed that the development of an ethnic bioweapon is impossible because their genetics are too alike, more or less that was the claim, then it is on them to prove it. I am just saying it is unlikely.

Also if you must know the whole debunking article you quoted and linked was written by Daniel Pipes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Pipes#Views_on_Islam_and_the_Middle_East

Even so what about the remarks two members of the intelligence community remarked regarding the possibility of such weapons? Including William Cohen. Oh, yeah I guess he was lying right? And we should just believe Daniel Pipes?

"I never said there were genetic markers, but it is most likely there is" .... nice get out. How are you quantifying that likelihood ? Or even qualifying ?

Daniel Pipes just reviewed the book he wasn't 'debunking' and what anti-arab propaganda is he giving in this review...or is that just your first reflex action ?.

I haven't got the book, other reviews were similar in tone talking of conspiracy theories and mistakes. If you post the book I will have a look, else what is the point of a source that no-one can read ?

Oh, and again, you are a one to be unhappy with other peoples sources.

The William Cohen bit talked of a 'secret CIA report' ... welll isn't that convenient ? I can talk of 'secret reports' all night long, will you believe me ?

You stated Israel are developing ethno-weapons .... please evidence. No more talk of 'possibilities of this or that', 'secret reports', 'murmers in the anti-israel blogs, 'books that can't be read' or 'un-named sources'. Lets start by having a look at that article from the Sunday Times that you are relying so heavily on here.

Edited by Moon Monkey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You stated Israel are developing ethno-weapons .... please evidence. No more talk of 'possibilities of this or that', 'secret reports',

I have stated twice exactly what I have been asserting.

The William Cohen bit talked of a 'secret CIA report' ... welll isn't that convenient ? I can talk of 'secret reports' all night long, will you believe me ?

As for the William Cohen reference I had in mind it was him speaking at an anti-terrorism conference, Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction, and U.S. Strategy, in April 1997. He was Secretary of Defense, you know he helps decide official government policies, and was speaking at the time speaking at a conference. Not exactly a 'secret report'. And fas.org is uber-reliable for the information it gives.

Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic-specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves.

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

http://www.fas.org/news/usa/1997/04/bmd970429d.htm

Any disagreement on the possibility of the development and research of ethnic bioweapons is not with me but with the transcript above from fas.org. If you wish to disprove Secretary of Defense Cohen's statements given at a conference he would attend and was speaker at then that might prove interesting.

Edited by Rosewin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is enough evidence to show the development of such weapons is a possibility according to intelligence sources as provided. There is one story appearing in the press that said Israel was pursuing such technology. That is all I have asserted and it was proven with the sources offered.

Besides that my own personal sentiment is that the current and past Israeli regime would most likely pursue such technology based on their racist ideology of wanting a majority ethnic state.

A few here have claimed it was a hoax but have failed to provide any evidence of that.

I linked that? Where?

The recordings were first said to be from the Marmara then the IDF backed off on those claims and said they did not know where they were from. Their editing department most likely.

Based on what!!?? Speculation, NOTHING MORE. You make it statement rather than a question, that = lie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have stated twice exactly what I have been asserting.

As for the William Cohen reference I had in mind it was him speaking at an anti-terrorism conference, Terrorism, Weapons of Mass Destruction, and U.S. Strategy, in April 1997.

http://www.fas.org/news/usa/1997/04/bmd970429d.htm

Any disagreement on the possibility of the development of ethnic bioweapons is not with me but with the statement above. If you wish to disprove Secretary Cohen's statement that might prove interesting.

Yes you have been very clear

Does anyone remember the story regarding Israel attempting to develop a biological weapon that would kill only those with Arab genes but not Jewish ones? They can use the imagery of Auschwitz for their propaganda but in secret they plan to ethnically cleanse others. They need to be stopped before they can do this.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v17/v17n6p24_Weber.html

I forgot to add in my last post.....I linked you to a wiki showing the whole Times story is a hoax and it is not good enough, then a few posts later you are using wiki as evidence of Daniel Pipes anti-islam propagandaism (not that it was in any way relevent to a book that had nothing to do with islam but hey ho)...please make your mind up.

What has Cohens speech at a conference before the Sunday Times article was written got to do with Israel developing an ethno-bomb ? Oh and btw if that was the speech you had in mind why did you highlight the sentence in the CIA report written for him two posts ago ?

The theoretic idea that an ethno-bomb may be possible does not evidence that the israelis are developing one or that it is possible in the case of jews and arabs, both semetic people very close in coding (as explained to you two pages ago).

We might as well leave it here, I will have a look again if you ever post any real evidence or sources. You still haven't even posted the article from the Sunday Times that all this 'isreali ethno-bomb' BS is based on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.