Gaza flotilla attack: Autopsies

[odas]

What makes you think the Israelis were the only ones doing the shooting? The "activists" had a couple of pistols that they snatched from the Israelis.

? So the activists did not have their own guns, they took it from the soldiers. What was that again about weapons fond on the ship? Yes, of course. The guns from the Israelie "soldiers".

[danielost]

Artical is here come on six bullets holes in some bodies..........

I think the Israelis did a little bit of a over kill on some of these people.

you keep talking about how isreal wants to kill everyone in gaza. how hard would it be for them to carpet bomb the whole area. problem solved. and no i dont want it done, just asking.

[Ryinrea]

Honor? Are you for real?

Yes I am for real when I say there is no Honer in shooting someone who is trying to run away.

Danial your ill informed ON THIS subject since if you actually know the videos like this below of people being shot while they are unarmed. Here are Iserali soilders shooting an unarmed prisoner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WEcWNc3DQw

Cold blooded murder of the Americans Naval officers of the US Liberty.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Ryinrea

[+susieice]

you keep talking about how isreal wants to kill everyone in gaza. how hard would it be for them to carpet bomb the whole area. problem solved. and no i dont want it done, just asking.

Why not. Should they just get this show on the road or keep dragging it out?

[TheResearcher]

Yes I am for real when I say there is no Honer in shooting someone who is trying to run away.

Why do you assume they were running away. That's idiotic. Is it not equally possible than another soldier opened fire to defend a fellow soldier who was being attacked by said individual? They weren't exactly forming battle lines and attacking each other straight on.

[J.B.]

Hmm. . . what the autopsies prove was that it was a mess. . . which might have been mob attacks on soldiers, and multiple Israelis opening fire on the same target. Seriously, civilians should not have this information without all the possibilities spelled out for them. Yes, this might have been a massacre of unarmed civilians, I'll accept the possibility, but these autopsies don't disprove a hostile bunch of "activists" assaulting an apparently ill-tasked Navy SEAL unit. In the heat of battle, the designation of targets isn't always held up to perfect standards, so you're not going to get one shot one kills very often. Sometimes you get four shots to a kill, sometimes you get missed bullets that hit the wrong place.

Also, shame on the ******* in this forum who put quotes around the word soldiers. Regardless of this being butchery or not, they were indeed soldiers. If you want to blame someone, put more blame on the ones giving the orders than the ones taking them.

Edited June 5, 2010 by J.B.

[Ryinrea]

Why do you assume they were running away. That's idiotic. Is it not equally possible than another soldier opened fire to defend a fellow soldier who was being attacked by said individual? They weren't exactly forming battle lines and attacking each other straight on.

*Snip* since being hit in the back usually means they are running away, or had their back turned, and still I stand by my comment

Edited June 5, 2010 by SupeRgirl
Avoid name calling to get your point across

[Moon Monkey]

Has this autopsy been evidenced yet ? I hope then has been some independent confirmation that what the ATK are saying is true as they don't have the best reputation even inside Turkey.

As part of the introduction of Turkey into the EU it would have to overgo a major overhaul, it was one of the EU's main demands. It has been likened to Pinochets forensics department by the Turkish Human Rights watch in that it just comes out with what the state wants it to say. A quote by the ATK President for a different case was to say that when the ATK publishes a decision it may not be in the best interests of the patient but they have to take into consideration the thoughts and feelings of turkish society.

Anyway I am probably worrying about nothing, I am sure all this talk of shooting execution style from 20 cm and repeatedly in the back etc. will (or has been) independently verified, I mean imagine if Israel had done the autopsies instead...wouldn't you want the results checked ? Can anyone link me up ?

Edited June 5, 2010 by Moon Monkey

[+susieice]

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=25130

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/04/gaza.raid.autopsies/index.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-activist-autopsy-results

Here's some I found.

Editted to say the third one doesn't seem to be working.

Edited June 5, 2010 by susieice

[Moon Monkey]

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/article.php?id=25130

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/04/gaza.raid.autopsies/index.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/04/gaza-flotilla-activist-autopsy-results

Here's some I found.

Editted to say the third one doesn't seem to be working.

Those are press reports of the ATK autopsy releases, I meant independent verification. Like I said you wouldn't take an israeli autopsy without an outside agency confirming it would you ?

Edited June 5, 2010 by Moon Monkey

[Ryinrea]

Those are press reports of the ATK autopsy releases, I meant independent verification.

Are you mad that these autopsy reports aren't done by the Israelis like the last time they did a independent investigation like in Lebanon?

[Moon Monkey]

Are you mad that these autopsy reports aren't done by the Israelis like the last time they did a independent investigation like in Lebanon?

Holy christ...you are so...whats the word...that you don't even realise you have proven my point !!

[Rosewin]

Why do you assume they were running away. That's idiotic. Is it not equally possible than another soldier opened fire to defend a fellow soldier who was being attacked by said individual? They weren't exactly forming battle lines and attacking each other straight on.

You are not actually proposing that trained marines are actually going to open fire in such a way that they are in positions to attack a target from all 360 degrees at once, because this is the only way someone could simultaneously be shot in both the front and the back, which would also require that the Israeli marines were actually in the crossfire of each other in what we have seen? Trained marines would not allow such battle formations putting each other in harms way. The only other way something like that could happen was if the marines were stationed in sniper towers which surrounded the victims but as we know most of the wounds were at close quarters which points to something completely different.

[Ryinrea]

Holy christ...you are so...whats the word...that you don't even realise you have proven my point !!

, and you wouldn't beleive it even, if it came from a independent body, since anything bad to Israel is bad in your eyes, since I have given you reports from the UN it self, and you still don't beleive it.

[Moon Monkey]

, and you wouldn't beleive it even, if it came from a independent body, since anything bad to Israel is bad in your eyes, since I have given you reports from the UN it self, and you still don't beleive it.

So you have given me UN reports on this autopsy ? Where ? Oh and by the way I am still waiting for you to go back and deal with that UN school bombing you also claim you gave me proof about.

Duck and dive.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Moon Monkey

[J.B.]

The U.N. has been suspect from the start of this, why would he believe them? I don't think there's a single report on any of this that you can 100% believe because there is no such thing as a group that is both neutral toward Israel and investigating this fiasco. You either support them, hate them, or won't touch the subject with a 10 foot pole.

[Moon Monkey]

The U.N. has been suspect from the start of this, why would he believe them? I don't think there's a single report on any of this that you can 100% believe because there is no such thing as a group that is both neutral toward Israel and investigating this fiasco. You either support them, hate them, or won't touch the subject with a 10 foot pole.

The UN hasn't produced a report on this...they may have made a couple of statements on the takeover and deaths but it will be a long time before a proper report comes out but as usual conclusions are being drawn prematurely.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Moon Monkey

[+susieice]

Those are press reports of the ATK autopsy releases, I meant independent verification. Like I said you wouldn't take an israeli autopsy without an outside agency confirming it would you ?

Has there been a second autopsy by an independent team to confirm the results of the first one? One was an American citizen whose family is working with US diplomats in Turkey, so if his body is returned here, the family can request an independent autopsy to be done to determine cause of death.

Edited June 5, 2010 by susieice

[J.B.]

That's what Monk's asking about. There needs to be at least two autopsies for anyone to trust it.

[+susieice]

That's what Monk's asking about. There needs to be at least two autopsies for anyone to trust it.

We banged during our posts. Sorry. Read above.

[Moon Monkey]

When you consider that these two countries could end up really clashing over this affair you would think the EU or UN would send a forensic team in to back up the ATK, who are more than a little questionable and certainly far from independent.

[TheResearcher]

You are not actually proposing that trained marines are actually going to open fire in such a way that they are in positions to attack a target from all 360 degrees at once, because this is the only way someone could simultaneously be shot in both the front and the back, which would also require that the Israeli marines were actually in the crossfire of each other in what we have seen? Trained marines would not allow such battle formations putting each other in harms way. The only other way something like that could happen was if the marines were stationed in sniper towers which surrounded the victims but as we know most of the wounds were at close quarters which points to something completely different.

Yes I am actually. Look at the videos, regardless of which side you are on you can see it was a mess. They didn't intend to get into those positions. If they were expecting to meet such resistance they would have not entered in the manner in which they did.

[TheResearcher]

*Snip* since being hit in the back usually means they are running away, or had their back turned, and still I stand by my comment

You stick to your opinion, but frankly you look rather ridiculous. Your "name calling" only adds testament to this. I have nothing further to say to you.

[+susieice]

When you consider that these two countries could end up really clashing over this affair you would think the EU or UN would send a forensic team in to back up the ATK, who are more than a little questionable and certainly far from independent.

So I take you won't accept the results of a US forensic team either? I'm not saying this will happen, but if the family is going through diplomatic channels, I'd assume it's for the return of the remains to the US for burial. It would be prudent for them to request a second autopsy.

[Rosewin]

Yes I am actually. Look at the videos

You mean the pre-edited footage only released in segments by the Israelis?

What the world has been watching since then is either edited video shot by the Israelis or other video shot by activists, confiscated by the Israelis and subsequently edited and made available through Israeli sources.

...

And given the fact that virtually all the visual evidence is now in Israeli hands, it's almost inconceivable that we will ever know precisely what happened. At this stage, it seems fanciful to believe that any Israeli-based investigation will make available all the raw footage Israel has in its possession.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/04/israeli-pr-machine-gaza-flotilla-media-battle