Gaza flotilla attack: Autopsies

[Papagiorgio]

Strange. I've never heard of the US Navy hijacking aid ships running for Iraq or Cuba. On the contrary, aid ships into Iraq were escorted in and US troops helped unload the civilian ships.

I've never heard of an aid ship dumb enough to run a U.S. Naval blockade. I'm sure the U.S. Navy was allowed to inspect the ship's cargo. I'm also pretty sure the crews of those aid ships did not attack the U.S. sailors. Israel offered to help unload the aid ships, just at a port of Israel's choosing.

[Rosewin]

The fact that it was opened during the recent international scrutiny on Israel surrounding the flotilla raid just shows that Egypt is not under israeli pressure (that belongs in the conspiracy section), they can do as they wish.

Egypt is a sovereign nation able to change their policies as they wish. It would have been foolish of them to continue (their pact?) with Israel and ignore the popular demand within their own country, which was indeed a result of their domestic reaction towards the flotilla incident. You are right that international scrutiny was part of the reason.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rosewin

[Moon Monkey]

Egypt is a sovereign nation able to change their policies as they wish. It would have been foolish of them to continue (their pact?) with Israel and ignore the popular demand within their own country, which was indeed a result of their domestic reaction towards the flotilla incident. You are right that international scrutiny was part of the reason.

Indeed, whilst the international spotlight is on Gaza a lot of people may have suddenly realised that it was not simply an 'israeli blockade' but an 'israeli and egyptian blockade'. That may have led to a number of people who were secure in their 'evil Israel' stance questioning the whole situation and wondering why a brother, neighbouring, muslim, arab country is also participating in the blockade and that there may be more to the story than they first thought. That obviously assumes those people are open to new information.

[Rosewin]

wondering why a brother, neighbouring, muslim, arab country is also participating in the blockade

Egypt is not an "Arab country".

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rosewin

[Knight Of Shadows]

it's not surprising israel typical inexcusable murders nothing new

still it's good fun to hear people " israel did what she had to do "

self defence ... this one never get old

but it need more than that to cover israel criminal actions

and innoncet murders however israel now biting it's finger in regret

which suits just fine for me

still the good things are coming ahead

[Knight Of Shadows]

by the way ejypt isn't arabic ??? i hear alot of weird things on this site

i just hope some one does not strip syria next of it's arabic nature

[Moon Monkey]

Egypt is not an "Arab country".

Hmmmm, strange then that its official title is 'The Arab Republic of Egypt', but no matter.

[Rosewin]

They also speak Arabic so it is understandable some with limited knowledge of the region's history and current affairs might believe they are Arabic but 'there may be more to the story than they first thought'.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rosewin

[Moon Monkey]

They also speak Arabic so it is understandable some with limited knowledge of the region's history and current affairs might believe they are Arabic but 'there may be more to the story than they first thought'.

Do you mean some with limited knowledge like the egyptians themselves ? It is their name.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Moon Monkey

[Knight Of Shadows]

They also speak Arabic so it is understandable some with limited knowledge of the region's history and current affairs might believe they are Arabic but 'there may be more to the story than they first thought'.

come on .. first people claim palestine not arabic .. now ejypt not arabic

what's next ?

[Leonardo]

Trolling? I was simply telling you that Israel wasn't shooting 90% of the passengers. The Israelis only fought back in self-defense. This is about the Israelis and the attackers. It has nothing to do with the rest of the people on the ship.

Interesting. The IDF only fired guns in self-defence?

When did the shooting start?

Were the activists on the ships within their rights to attempt to repel the IDF from boarding via boat or helicopter?

Please consider this happened in International waters when responding. The Israeli Navy/Govt has not set up an 'exclusion zone' for shipping that extends to the point the piracy happened.

[Knight Of Shadows]

it was obvious there was no excuse for that " terrioist " attack

on unarmed people by israel

but just won't stop defending israel will he ?

well good luck with that .. defending a cold blooded murderers

never been an easy task plain and simple " it was cold blooded murder "

israel ... style all rights reserved

[Rosewin]

I do not think it was cold blooded murder on part of the soldiers. They were just taking orders and feared for their lives. If they wanted to they could have murdered much more if that was their true intent.

Those responsible are the political bosses of that regime such as Binyamin Netanyahu.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rosewin

[Knight Of Shadows]

it was what i meant .. i don't blame pawns .. i blame the kings

[ships-cat]

Something I read made me prick my ears up.

It transpires that out of the seven vessels in the flotilla, six halted when asked to do so by the Iraeli's, and submitted for boarding.

The only ship that DIDN'T was the large ferry, the Mavi Marmara, triggering the air assault.

The SECOND 'fact' (if the report was correct) was that the other six (smaller) vessels had a fairly cosmopolitain mixture of passengers and crew. The Mavi Marmara, on the other hand, had almost exclusively muslim passengers.

Now, is this a co-incidence ? Or did the Mavi Marmara deliberately carry a more homogenous - and ideologically extreme - group, with the premeditated intention that it should deliberately attempt to become the 'flash point' of any encounter ?

meow purr

[Rosewin]

it was what i meant .. i don't blame pawns .. i blame the kings

Agreed.

It transpires that out of the seven vessels in the flotilla, six halted when asked to do so by the Iraeli's, and submitted for boarding.

False. A former American ambassador was on the Greek ship. They were forcefully halted on their course.

Ambassador Peck this morning described the Israeli commando raid on the Sfendoni, the Freedom Flotilla ship he and other FPM delegates were aboard: "The first thing we knew was the sound of footsteps, and my eyelids flicked open, and there they were, heavily armed. The Israeli government keeps referring to the paint guns, but the paint guns were attached to the automatic weapons and the stun grenades and the pepper spray and the tasers and everything else that these guys carry. ... And it was all over in the inside of the ship, where I was. But up on the upper deck, where some people had been sitting and sleeping, they made an effort to peacefully prevent the Israelis from taking over the wheelhouse, and we had a number of people injured in that. Nothing of a critical nature, but we had people on crutches and people with bandages and peoples with their arms in slings, and the captain had his neck in a brace."

...

As to the other FPM detainees, St. Onge suffered a gash on his head when kicked by an Israeli soldier as he tried to protect a fellow passenger whom the commandos were beating on the deck of the Sfendoni, he told his wife Jan St. Onge. Kobren was allowed to make a brief phone call to the US from a women's prison unit in Beersheba, Israel, yesterday and reported that she is good health, but all the prisoners' belongings had been taken from them.

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2010-06-01/article/35522?headline=More-Gaza-Flotilla-Detainees-Released-Larudee-Badly-Beaten-But-Now-Headed-to-Greece

The only ship that DIDN'T was the large ferry, the Mavi Marmara, triggering the air assault.

False. The other vessels were most likely easily overtaken because they were smaller. The Mavi Marmara was much larger and had a greater crowd on board.

Abu Khalil went on: "Twenty Turkish men formed a human shield to prevent the Israeli soldiers from scaling the ship. They had slingshots, water pipes and sticks."

"They were banging the pipes on the side of the ship to warn the Israelis not to get closer."

The standoff lasted about 10 minutes until the Israelis opened fire, he said: "One man got a direct hit to the head and another one was shot in the neck."

Abu Khalil said he saw some 40 wounded people, some with bullet wounds to the legs, apparently to disable them. Others had wounds to the eye, stomach and chest.

One activist used a loudhailer to tell the Israelis the four captive soldiers were well and would be released if they provided medical help for the wounded.

With an Israeli Arab lawmaker acting as mediator, the Israelis agreed to the request and the wounded were brought to the top deck where they were airlifted off the ship.

Abu Khalil said: "I'm happy and angry at the same time ... The most we had was a kitchen knife and sling shots."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6524AN20100603

The SECOND 'fact' (if the report was correct) was that the other six (smaller) vessels had a fairly cosmopolitain mixture of passengers and crew. The Mavi Marmara, on the other hand, had almost exclusively muslim passengers.

Out of around less than 600 it had around 400 Turkish.

Now, is this a co-incidence ? Or did the Mavi Marmara deliberately carry a more homogenous - and ideologically extreme - group, with the premeditated intention that it should deliberately attempt to become the 'flash point' of any encounter ?

The Turkish are neither extreme or ideological.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rosewin

[Rosewin]

These are also accounts from the two other ships in the flotilla.

Free Mediterranean

Swedish author Henning Mankell reports that Israeli troops abseiled onto the Free Mediterranean about an hour after the raid on the Mavi Marmara. Michalis Grigoropoulos, who was at the wheel of the ship according to British newspaper The Guardian, said that the Israeli commandos used electric shocks on those who tried to form a human ring on the bridge, and also used tear gas and live ammunition. In an eyewitness account, a reporter for the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung wrote that Israeli soldiers approached unarmed civilians with guns drawn and shot a 65 year old person with an electroshock weapon from a distance of ten centimeters. Mankell said soldiers shot "an older man in the crew, he was perhaps a little slow" with an electric gun, and another man with rubber bullets.

Challenger One

The Challenger One accelerated its course in an attempt to allow journalists onboard to broadcast their photos of the ongoing raid. Huwaida Arraf, an American activist who was on the Challenger One reported that Israeli soldiers attacked those who tried to block them from taking over the vessel with kicks, tasers, and concussion grenades. She said that the Israelis smashed her face against the ground and stepped on it; later they cuffed her and put a bag over her head. First mate Shane Dillon reported that Israeli troops used stun guns and paintball guns to subdue activists on board, broke the nose of a Belgian woman among them, and beat another passenger. Australian photojournalist Kate Geraghty was attacked and tasered by Israeli troops aboard the Challenger One, while attempting to photograph the raid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid#Free_Mediterranean

It is safe to assume most of the activists used the human ring tactic on several of the ships if not all.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rosewin

[ships-cat]

I said muslims, not turks.

meow purr

[Rosewin]

It was intentional to clarify they were Turks and emphasize their moderateness so no one would be misled by the following two phrases in close proximity to each other.

muslim passengers.

Now, is this a co-incidence ? Or did the Mavi Marmara deliberately carry a more homogenous - and ideologically extreme - group

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rosewin

[Ryinrea]

I said muslims, not turks.

meow purr

Face Palms not all Muslims are radicals.

Peace March of Muslim

Mulism Leader send a letter of peace

Peace Secretariat

The Free Muslims Coalition they tend to work with other Israelis who also want peace

The first Muslim American that holds a seat in congress is not a radical

Here is another forum that do want peace as well

[Rosewin]

Syracuse, NY -- Saying they were angry and embarrassed, more than 40 members of a peace group gathered at the downtown Syracuse federal building this afternoon to protest the Israeli commando raid on a flotilla carrying aid and activists to the Gaza Strip.

...

In Syracuse, the protesters wore black arm bands to signify mourning for those killed. Elana Levy tied one on Pompey resident Debra George’s arm.

“That’s the beautiful thing about this committee,” George said as Levy walked away. “She’s Jewish. I’m of Palestinian descent, a Christian. There’s Muslims here. I just think it’s a wonderful thing. We have all the sides represented.”

“There are a lot of Jewish people here. That’s important for people to know,” Levy said. “I’m more like Gazans than unlike. We’re all of the same soil, blood, flesh.”

Magda Bayoumi, an American of Egyptian origin, said the disease and starvation resulting from the blockade could be avoided if Gazans were seen as human. As an American, she said, she’s embarrassed that the U.S. pressured Egypt to blockade Gaza, and as an Egyptian she’s embarrassed that Egypt went along.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/06/syracuse_jews_christians_musli.html

It is clear there is more than two sides, it is not Jewish vs Muslim for all, it is not Israeli government vs Hamas terrorist organization for all, it is not The Whole World against Muslims either. A third side just wishes to help the Palestinian people. Nothing can justify what is occurring to them.

[eqgumby]

Face Palms not all Muslims are radicals.

Peace March of Muslim

Mulism Leader send a letter of peace

Peace Secretariat

The Free Muslims Coalition they tend to work with other Israelis who also want peace

The first Muslim American that holds a seat in congress is not a radical

Here is another forum that do want peace as well

YEAH!

Even Arafat was a good guy!!

“I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand.”

Then again...

“Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.”

But he REALLY has good intentions, right??

“Whoever stands by a just cause cannot possibly be called a terrorist”

At least I think he does...

Continue to press on soldiers of freedom! We will not bend or fail until the blood of every last Jew from the youngest child to the oldest elder is spilt to redeem or land!

[Rosewin]

Comparing citizens from Austin, TX and Condoleezza Rice to Arafat?

Edited June 10, 2010 by Rosewin

[eqgumby]

Comparing citizens from Austin, TX and Condoleezza Rice to Arafat?

Read.

Slowly.

You'll get it.

[Rosewin]

So is it just the quotes of his being compared to citizens of Austin, TX and Condie Rice?