Gaza flotilla attack: Autopsies

[eqgumby]

So is it just the quotes of his being compared to citizens of Austin, TX and Condie Rice?

It's a reply to Ryanria's post about "peaceful" Muslims/Palestinians.

You LOVE to show evil Israeli's and their evil government, but refuse to acknowledge evil Palestinians and THEIR government, which you are implicitly supporting.

And since when is C Rice Muslim?

[Ryinrea]

Yes I put up the picture, because that is the only one I could find of him. And do you have other quotes? I think they both do things wrong in this conflict not just Israel, so just because he thinks Israel is not that great of a country means he a bad guy?

[FLOMBIE]

The Turkish are neither extreme or ideological.

What makes you say that? Of course there are lots of Turks who have very extreme thoughts and ideologies. Erdogan, for example, is very much a hardliner. And I know many Turks with extreme views myself.

Edited June 11, 2010 by FLOMBIE

[Ryinrea]

What makes you say that? Of course there are lots of Turks who have very extreme thoughts and ideologies. Erdogan, for example, is very much a hardliner. And I know many Turks with extreme views myself.

This Yeap even the TYT radio show host who is a Turkish American say his parents fight for what they beleive in.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Ryinrea

[eqgumby]

Yes I put up the picture, because that is the only one I could find of him. And do you have other quotes? I think they both do things wrong in this conflict not just Israel, so just because he thinks Israel is not that great of a country means he a bad guy?

Are you speaking to me? If so, quote me.

What picture of which guy? I wasn't responding to YOU. See how that works, quoting people so we can tell who your talking to?

If you think they BOTH do things wrong, then STOP playing sympathizer to Hamas and falling for the Islamic propoganda machine, acting as if the Gaza Strip is a concentration camp full of women and children, when in reality it's full of evil small minded terrorists that aren't smart enough to either send their families somewhere safe, or STOP BOMBING ISRAEL! If these people would NOT listen to their Islamic puppetmasters in places like Iran, the Israelies would have never HAD to isolate them. It's about Hamas calling for Israel to be wiped off the map, in public, and training children to believe Jews EAT CHILDREN. Don't you get it? 10 year olds WANTING to be martyrs! It's disgusting. And you fell for it, hook line and sinker.

[Rosewin]

Not really. There is one view, let us call it the FOX News view, the one that teaches you to fear and dislike Muslims. In sum the biggest complaint some can muster is they are brainwashing children to hate.

Some are not falling for that. That FOX News view is supported by fear and dislike.

Some simply can see the overall situation, see which children are actually dying, which nation said 'the idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet', then see which nation has children under 5 and mothers with both groups having high percentages of anemia.

Then another view can be formed that is not simply based on fearing and disliking a whole group of people because they might have a different religion, or a religion to begin with, or just because they are foreign. If anyone has views based on any of those reason they should perhaps be rethought.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Rosewin

[Leonardo]

Are you speaking to me? If so, quote me.

What picture of which guy? I wasn't responding to YOU. See how that works, quoting people so we can tell who your talking to?

If you think they BOTH do things wrong, then STOP playing sympathizer to Hamas and falling for the Islamic propoganda machine, acting as if the Gaza Strip is a concentration camp full of women and children, when in reality it's full of evil small minded terrorists that aren't smart enough to either send their families somewhere safe, or STOP BOMBING ISRAEL! If these people would NOT listen to their Islamic puppetmasters in places like Iran, the Israelies would have never HAD to isolate them. It's about Hamas calling for Israel to be wiped off the map, in public, and training children to believe Jews EAT CHILDREN. Don't you get it? 10 year olds WANTING to be martyrs! It's disgusting. And you fell for it, hook line and sinker.

The issue being, egg, that this thread, and others about the same incident, are started not as Palestinian sympathy threads, but as indictments of the actions taken by the IDF/Israeli Govt.

However, we then get those who are Israeli sympathisers defending said actions, often by way of associating the activists on board the flotilla with Hamas and labelling them 'terrorists', or agitating on behalf of a terrorist organisation.

In the Middle East conflict there are no innocent parties (with respect the authorities involved), however - in regards this flotilla incident there is definitely a guilty party. That party being the IDF/Israeli Govt. It could be argued they are 'guilty' in regards the whole Gaza blockade business, as their stated aim is not simply the denial of military supply to an enemy, but the subdual via starvation/denial of humane aid of a civilian population.

Unfortunately, because the sympathisers cannot justify either of these actions to any satisfaction, they fall back on the 'they were terrorists' or 'well Hamas has a stated aim of destorying Israel' defence, which are either untrue or irrelevant to what is actually under discussion - that being the attack by the IDF on the aid flotilla, the seizure of sovereign vessels on the high seas, and the killing of (presumably) innocent civilians in doing so.

Those who indict the actions of the IDF/Israeli Govt then sometimes reply in kind, and the circus starts.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Leonardo

[eqgumby]

The issue being, egg, that this thread, and others about the same incident, are started not as Palestinian sympathy threads, but as indictments of the actions taken by the IDF/Israeli Govt.

However, we then get those who are Israeli sympathisers defending said actions, often by way of associating the activists on board the flotilla with Hamas and labelling them 'terrorists', or agitating on behalf of a terrorist organisation.

In the Middle East conflict there are no innocent parties (with respect the authorities involved), however - in regards this flotilla incident there is definitely a guilty party. That party being the IDF/Israeli Govt. It could be argued they are 'guilty' in regards the whole Gaza blockade business, as their stated aim is not simply the denial of military supply to an enemy, but the subdual via starvation/denial of humane aid of a civilian population.

Unfortunately, because the sympathisers cannot justify either of these actions to any satisfaction, they fall back on the 'they were terrorists' or 'well Hamas has a stated aim of destorying Israel' defence, which are either untrue or irrelevant to what is actually under discussion - that being the attack by the IDF on the aid flotilla, the seizure of sovereign vessels on the high seas, and the killing of (presumably) innocent civilians in doing so.

Those who indict the actions of the IDF/Israeli Govt then sometimes reply in kind, and the circus starts.

I'll disagree on several issues.

Everyone of these threads started by two particular people, begin with the same extremely biased sources. That's my issue. Any mention of any other position is immediately called out as being anti-Islamic or Zionist in nature. To the point where one member made absurd claims about being a video game designer and sound specialist who could actually hear VIA THE INTERNET that the Israelis had "doctored" audio tape.

*SNIP* PM UM Staff for moderation issues - do not post about it in the forums.

Since when can people make claims, and then require someone else to disprove them? Does this work here in the political forums, just not in the paranormal and UFO forums?

Edited June 11, 2010 by Paranormalcy

[Knight Of Shadows]

interesting .. btw we don't teach our children that jews eat people ..

my father didn't even talked to me about struggle with israel

but you get to know those things when you near them more than you get

from a " one sided media "

you complain about people bombing themself .. why you don't compalin on

israel commiting all kind of ugly crims ? why being one sided ?

like the media

martyers or not .. these people defending them self

you consider a small group of people struggle for their food

terriorsts ?

and the large numbered armed people who have comfy homes by destroying the previous

people homes and building ther fancy houses

you call those defending ?

seriously it's eiather you blind or just don't wanna admit

that israel is the real terrorist in the matter

being dramatic .. and so rashed for israel's defendse wasn't a good move

you should really think about what you saying before you do

i think it's " more " than clear to the world now israel " criminal "

acts .. you see media can't be one sided as it used to be

and israel every day show it's crimes to the world proudly

that ship and loads of other things before

phht .. israel eat children hehehe

actually the real case is the little child watching his mother get

killed by israel solider in the must cruel way .. that's why the boys

want to be martyers .. they just got sick of injustice done to them

laterz

[Agent X]

Since when can people make claims, and then require someone else to disprove them? Does this work here in the political forums, just not in the paranormal and UFO forums?

No, in any debate the onus is on the people who are making any wild claim to prove it with valid evidence. It's just laziness to trick someone into doing their work for them.

[+DieChecker]

Show me this law that lets ships enter a blockaded area whenever they want.

Here is a wiki site that describes the Pro-Blockade and the Anti-Blockade stances around the world. Basically it revolves around if the ships were known to be carrying war materials. Their intent matters for nothing, only what they were transporting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_assessments_of_the_Gaza_flotilla_raid#Arguments_opposing_legality_of_blockade

Dodging the question? You claimed Israel or the CIA knew what was on the ships. I asked for evidence. Now you admit you have no proof that Israel or the US knew what was on the ships. You admit that Israel had a right to inspect the ships before allowing the cargo to enter Gaza.

I stated that using simple logic such a thing was clearly possible. There is no way to prove my assumption. I never said it was a fact.

Trolling? I was simply telling you that Israel wasn't shooting 90% of the passengers. The Israelis only fought back in self-defense. This is about the Israelis and the attackers. It has nothing to do with the rest of the people on the ship.

It is not about the Israeli commandos or passengers, but the legality of the Israeli action.

Were the activists on the ships within their rights to attempt to repel the IDF from boarding via boat or helicopter?

Please consider this happened in International waters when responding. The Israeli Navy/Govt has not set up an 'exclusion zone' for shipping that extends to the point the piracy happened.

I agree. If these ships were considered enemy by Israel then aren't enemy combatants allowed to defend themselves? And, if they were not enemy ships, then why did they have to storm them at all? Especially in International waters.