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Ryinrea

Gaza flotilla attack: Autopsies

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Rosewin

There is no use in attempting to equate them. The US embargo did not keep other people from doing business with Cuba, just the US and its citizens and corporations. Israel, on their side, is not allowing anyone to do business with Palestine and also not allowing them to leave to other countries if they so wish.

Edited by Rosewin

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Ryinrea

Nope it doesn't equal a navy blockade, because we don't see what goes in and out of a nation. This doesn't equal a navy blockade, since cube trades with other countries

It just a embargo which is something totally different

Embargo

Since the Naval blockade is illegal

More sources

The weapons thing is not the only thing that is being denied in Gaza.

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eqgumby

Nope it doesn't equal a navy blockade, because we don't see what goes in and out of a nation. This doesn't equal a navy blockade, since cube trades with other countries

It just a embargo which is something totally different

Embargo

Since the Naval blockade is illegal

More sources

The weapons thing is not the only thing that is being denied in Gaza.

Nope, the quarantine during the missile crisis as it's called was a blockade.

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Ryinrea

Nope, the quarantine during the missile crisis as it's called was a blockade.

Thanks for the clarification of the time period, and I stand corrected for the mistake in my remembrance of history mishap.

Edited by Ryinrea

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eqgumby

Thanks for the clarification of the time period, and I stand corrected for the mistake in my remembrance of history mishap.

Ya shoulda read the link! It says "missile crisis". :lol:

Personally, I wish Hamas would get OUT, and let the Palestinians get a REAL government interested in the PEOPLE.

Until these foreign agent provocateurs stop shooting rockets at Israel, and stop teaching Palestinian children that Jews are not "real humans" and eat the bones of and drink the blood of Palestinian children, this crap will never stop.

Israel has a right to defend itself. If Texas starts getting bombed from across the Mexican border, I guaran-damn-tee you that the US will take matters into their own hands as the Israelis have done, especially if the bombs were smuggled in from and financed by a country who has clearly stated their desire to wipe the US from the map.

As for this flotilla incident...

The audio was not a fake, and the video was not a fake, that has been shown CLEARLY. What this was, was an act of provocation, and the provocateurs got more than they bargained for. They poked the bear with a sharp stick, and unfortunately they hit the bear in the eye. Don't blame the bear for tearing them up.

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ninjadude

Israel has a right to defend itself.

Does Gaza?

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Ryinrea

Ya shoulda read the link! It says "missile crisis". :lol:

Personally, I wish Hamas would get OUT, and let the Palestinians get a REAL government interested in the PEOPLE.

Until these foreign agent provocateurs stop shooting rockets at Israel, and stop teaching Palestinian children that Jews are not "real humans" and eat the bones of and drink the blood of Palestinian children, this crap will never stop.

Israel has a right to defend itself. If Texas starts getting bombed from across the Mexican border, I guaran-damn-tee you that the US will take matters into their own hands as the Israelis have done, especially if the bombs were smuggled in from and financed by a country who has clearly stated their desire to wipe the US from the map.

As for this flotilla incident...

The audio was not a fake, and the video was not a fake, that has been shown CLEARLY. What this was, was an act of provocation, and the provocateurs got more than they bargained for. They poked the bear with a sharp stick, and unfortunately they hit the bear in the eye. Don't blame the bear for tearing them up.

I couldn't read the small print didn't realize my damn glasses were off at the time :P.

I tend agree Israel has a right to defend itself too the confounds of the laws of war, and so does Gaza thought nether of them do go by confounds of the laws of war which is why I get tired of this.

The Flotilla incident type was doctored, so I can't fully trust the tapes in question to be true.

Iserali IDF admitted the types were doctored

Iseral is accused of hindering investigations

My link

Edited by Ryinrea

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eqgumby

I couldn't read the small print didn't realize my damn glasses were off at the time :P.

I tend agree Israel has a right to defend itself too the confounds of the laws of war, and so does Gaza thought nether of them do go by confounds of the laws of war which is why I get tired of this.

The Flotilla incident type was doctored, so I can't fully trust the tapes in question to be true.

Iserali IDF admitted the types were doctored

Iseral is accused of hindering investigations

My link

Your assertion that the tapes were "doctored" are false.

So to clarify: the audio was edited down to cut out periods of silence over the radio as well as incomprehensible comments so as to make it easier for people to listen to the exchange. We have now uploaded the entire segment of 5 minutes and 58 seconds in which the exchange took place and the comments were made.

This is a quote from YOUR link.

Your earlier assertion that you are some kind of an expert and can tell it was doctored, I would also call false.

Don't claim to be something you aren't.

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susieice

You don't think...

Yet Cuba suffered crushing poverty for how long?

The blockade is in place to prevent weapons from entering Gaza. The idea is to make life as rough as possible, so the people throw out their terroristic government.

Our government did things in Cuba that was far more illegal than that eggumby, things I'm not proud they did. But they didn't purposefully starve the Cuban population or deny them the most basic of human comfort. We've had a lot of people immigrate from Cuba since 1960 when the blockade when set up.

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Ryinrea

Your assertion that the tapes were "doctored" are false.

This is a quote from YOUR link.

Your earlier assertion that you are some kind of an expert and can tell it was doctored, I would also call false.

Don't claim to be something you aren't.

Edited down meas doctored in others words, and tempering with evidence :rolleyes:

From Webster

1 a : to prepare (as literary material) for publication or public presentation b : to assemble (as a moving picture or tape recording) by cutting and rearranging c : to alter, adapt, or refine especially to bring about conformity to a standard or to suit a particular purpose <carefully edited the speech> <edit a data file>

2 : to direct the publication of <edits the daily newspaper>

3 : delete —usually used with out

Deffention of Edit

The term for doctored From Webster
1 a : to give medical treatment to b : to restore to good condition : repair <doctor an old clock>

2 a : to adapt or modify for a desired end by alteration or special treatment <doctored the play to suit the audience> <the drink was doctored> b : to alter deceptively <accused of doctoring the election returns>intransitive verb 1 : to practice medicine

2 dialect : to take medicine

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Moon Monkey

Please tell me she is not still going on about the tapes having quiet periods removed.

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Ryinrea

Please tell me she is not still going on about the tapes having quiet periods removed.

The quiet periods weren't the only thing removed, because unlike you I actually listen to the unedited audio types. :rolleyes: And more adoring attacks on my stated facts about stuff. :rolleyes:

You tend to think anything I say is bull crap, and is not true even thought I point out the facts in stuff better than any one here. Plus the fact that Israel is not some forum of an holy object that can do no form of wrong, and must be trusted 100% all the time I would also suggest in say that this is a fascist state of mind. I think they made a number of mistakes through this fiasco, and I also tend to think that this is just another **** up.

I also think that this prove my side of the story.

Last week, the Israel Defence Force had to issue a retraction over an audio clip it had claimed was a conversation between Israeli naval officials and people on the Mavi Marmara, in which an activist told soldiers to "go back to Auschwitz". The clip was carried by Israeli and international press, but today the army released a "clarification/correction", explaining that it had edited the footage and that it was not clear who had made the comment. The Israeli army also backed down last week from an earlier claim that soldiers were attacked by al-Qaida "mercenaries" aboard the Gaza flotilla. An article appearing on the IDF spokesperson's website with the headline: "Attackers of the IDF soldiers found to be al-Qaida mercenaries", was later changed to "Attackers of the IDF Soldiers found without identification papers," with the information about al-Qaida removed from the main article. An army spokesperson told the Guardian there was no evidence proving such a link to the terror organization.
Edited by Ryinrea

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Rosewin

Do not worry Ryinrea, there are no sensible opinions out there that actually believe anyone aboard the flotilla said, "Go back to Auschwitz," and whoever mentioned the '911' comment had a very distinctive accent, if the Israelis wanted to they could have found exactly who on board the flotilla speaks that way, they interviewed all of them. More than likely the comments came from the IDF editing department. Really, some perhaps are just willing to believe anything bad that is connected with Muslims. Seeing minor stories before, especially in the religious forum, whenever Muslims are mentioned a certain few detest them. I call the condition FOX-itis.

lol @ you forgetting to put on your glasses

Our government did things in Cuba that was far more illegal than that eggumby, things I'm not proud they did. But they didn't purposefully starve the Cuban population or deny them the most basic of human comfort. We've had a lot of people immigrate from Cuba since 1960 when the blockade when set up.

Yes, good point, is Israel allowing any Gaza who wants to 'escape from Hamas' safe harbor among them? As the way the US accepted all Cubans wanting to escape Castro. No, Israel is keeping a population of 1.5 million and not even letting them leave to other countries.

Edited by Rosewin

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Paranormalcy
Posted Today, 12:54 AM

Please tell me she is not still going on about the tapes having quiet periods removed.

Keep this rhetoric inside your head please, it is a garbage post and has no need to be posted in the forums unless you're going to refute it in the same post; in which case you would present the refuting information itself, since you're addressing the TOPIC itself. Because you're not addressing the poster, I know, because you were instructed not to address other posters. By a moderator. Me.

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Moon Monkey

I will leave the 'editing' for now, but don't worry I will come back to it.

Ryinrea - I am still waiting for you to prove the israelis targetted and killed 43 people in a UN school. You decided to simply leave the thread when called out. Here it is:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=183367

Rosewinn - I am still waiting for you to acknowledge the figures of supplies to Gaza and to tell me where the 7+ million tonnes of restricted aid is. You decided to simply leave the thread when called out. Here it is:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=183585

Then can you please provide the Sunday Times article that you refer to at length but refuse to provide. Here it is:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=183552

Thank you both.

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Paranormalcy

Moon Monkey, this is not a "showdown", you are not the final word on validation and you will not "call people out". You've been warned on this and you continue to do so. This is your formal warning - I suggest you DO "leave the editing" and DON'T "come back to this" and instead just discuss the topic. Your flamebaiting and trolling is quickly earning you frequent flier miles for your well-deserved vacation. You will not be told again.

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Moon Monkey

Moon Monkey, this is not a "showdown", you are not the final word on validation and you will not "call people out". You've been warned on this and you continue to do so. This is your formal warning - I suggest you DO "leave the editing" and DON'T "come back to this" and instead just discuss the topic. Your flamebaiting and trolling is quickly earning you frequent flier miles for your well-deserved vacation. You will not be told again.

Sorry I was posting before I saw your warning. I still don't know what the correct procedure is when the people you are arguing with make a claim, refuse to evidence it, then leave the thread and go a start new unevidenced claims in new threads.

What is the accepted term for asking someone to evidence their claims ? I thought it was 'calling them out' but will use the correct term in future.

Btw I never did get an answer as to why you feel a picture of a Tianamen Square student with the word Israel written on him and tanks with the word Gaza written on them is felt to be a valid new thread.

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DieChecker

The reason is that Gaza is blockaded. No ship was allowed to enter the area.

You apparently have not read all the Rules of the Sea, or perhaps do not understand them in the context that I was refering to. Your simple statement shows ignorance of the law.

Assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Do you have any evidence Israel or the CIA knew exactly what was on the ships?

Dodging the question? Bad form old man.

I'll answer yours honestly though. Because I am honest and will respond knowledgably, unlike yourself in this thread. No. I have no proof. It would require a Congressional Inquiry to get such data, if the CIA did have it. So, I am not sure how you can expect me to have such data.

Well, 90% of the passengers weren't up there beating the soldiers to death, so I don't see your point.

You ask my opinion and I gave it. What is your beef. Why the Trolling?

Might I suggest you change your Avatar from that honorable old man Reagan to Israeli PM Netanyahu. You're defending Israel like a Judean Lion.

You mean in a blockade action? Forced poverty? Like in CUBA? Like in IRAQ?

Yes, our government would. And does.

The flotillas goal was to provoke Israel and to "run" the blockade.

Strange. I've never heard of the US Navy hijacking aid ships running for Iraq or Cuba. On the contrary, aid ships into Iraq were escorted in and US troops helped unload the civilian ships.

Does Gaza?

I would say Yes.

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Paranormalcy

There is more than ONE poster in this thread that needs to address the topic and not other posters. Topics, opinions, information and viewpoints are valid avenues of discussion.

If anyone has a problem with a particular thread or topic or such, you may either PM a mod or Report a thread or poster.

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Pseudo Intellectual

There is no use in attempting to equate them. The US embargo did not keep other people from doing business with Cuba, just the US and its citizens and corporations. Israel, on their side, is not allowing anyone to do business with Palestine and also not allowing them to leave to other countries if they so wish.

Rosewin, anyone with a basic knowledge of Middle Eastern geography knows Gaza shares a border with Egypt as well. It's not surrounded by Israel.

You apparently have not read all the Rules of the Sea, or perhaps do not understand them in the context that I was refering to. Your simple statement shows ignorance of the law.

v

Show me this law that lets ships enter a blockaded area whenever they want.

Dodging the question? Bad form old man.

I'll answer yours honestly though. Because I am honest and will respond knowledgably, unlike yourself in this thread. No. I have no proof. It would require a Congressional Inquiry to get such data, if the CIA did have it. So, I am not sure how you can expect me to have such data.

Dodging the question? You claimed Israel or the CIA knew what was on the ships. I asked for evidence. Now you admit you have no proof that Israel or the US knew what was on the ships. You admit that Israel had a right to inspect the ships before allowing the cargo to enter Gaza.

You ask my opinion and I gave it. What is your beef. Why the Trolling?

Trolling? I was simply telling you that Israel wasn't shooting 90% of the passengers. The Israelis only fought back in self-defense. This is about the Israelis and the attackers. It has nothing to do with the rest of the people on the ship.

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Rosewin

Rosewin, anyone with a basic knowledge of Middle Eastern geography knows Gaza shares a border with Egypt as well. It's not surrounded by Israel.

Morning, PI. You are correct. Did not Israel and the US pressure Egypt to build a huge wall to close off that border?

In 2005, when Israel pulled out of the Gaza Strip, Israel and Egypt reached a military agreement regarding the border, based on the principles of the 1979 peace treaty. The agreement specified that 750 Egyptian border guards would be deployed along the length of the border, and both Egypt and Israel pledged to work together to stem terrorism, arms smuggling, and other illegal cross-border activities.

From November 2005 until July 2007, the Rafah Crossing—the only entry-exit point along the Gaza-Egypt border—was jointly controlled by Egypt and the Palestinian Authority, with the European Union monitoring Palestinian compliance on the Gaza side. After the Hamas takeover in June 2007, the European Union pulled out of the region, and Egypt agreed with Israel to shut down the Rafah Crossing, effectively sealing off the Gaza Strip on all sides.

http://www.slate.com/id/2182754/

The following appears to be from a biased source. The information offered though appears valid but more so, consolidated, so that the scope of the symbiotic relationship between America and Egypt is placed in perfect context.

It has also been widely reported that the wall is being built with American assistance; a US Embassy official in Cairo confirmed to a delegate from the Gaza Freedom March that the US Army Corps of Engineers has provided technical support.

...

In the Egyptian and pan-Arab press, Egypt is accused of being a tool of the Israelis and the Americans, enforcing the blockade on their behalf. Certainly, Israel and the US have been pressuring Egypt for years to “crack down” on smuggling, and, in 2008, Congress temporarily withheld $100 million in aid over this issue. And certainly Egypt’s cooperation in maintaining the siege is part of what makes it a valuable US strategic partner. Perhaps not coincidentally, criticism from Washington of Egypt’s human rights record and its illiberal political system has been remarkably muted since the 2007 closure of Rafah. And Egypt has recently won two important concessions from the United States: Part of the aid it receives will now be put into an endowment (which makes it harder for Congress to make the aid conditional on particular reforms); and on December 30, it was announced that Egypt will acquire at least 20 new F-16 fighter jets from US manufacturers.

http://www.merip.org/mero/mero020110.html

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Moon Monkey

Egypt are a sovereign nation able to build walls as and when they wish whereever they want within their own terriotory with whosoever's technical help they want. They are also able to open and close the Rafah border as and when they wish. The fact that it was opened during the recent international scrutiny on Israel surrounding the flotilla raid just shows that Egypt is not under israeli pressure (that belongs in the conspiracy section), they can do as they wish.

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Pseudo Intellectual

Egypt are a sovereign nation able to build walls as and when they wish whereever they want within their own terriotory with whosoever's technical help they want. They are also able to open and close the Rafah border as and when they wish. The fact that it was opened during the recent international scrutiny on Israel surrounding the flotilla raid just shows that Egypt is not under israeli pressure (that belongs in the conspiracy section), they can do as they wish.

This has been repeated numerous times, and Rosewin and his ilk still don't get it.

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Moon Monkey

This has been repeated numerous times, and Rosewin and his ilk still don't get it.

True that mate, but I have to be careful about what I say. :ph34r:

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Pseudo Intellectual

Yes. Well, we'll just have to wait and see what Rosewin has to say about this. Gaza obviously isn't surrounded by Israel, and Egypt can do whatever it wants with its Gaza border, regardless of Israeli/American "pressure." So, clearly, it's not simply Israel that's preventing Gazans from leaving to other countries. Are you going to stop blaming Israel for every thing, Rosewin? Or, at least, just in this case.

Edited by Pseudo Intellectual

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