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Central & South America and the unexplained


archernyc

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Is it my imagination or are there a lot of unexplained mysteries on the continent of South America?

Nazca Lines

Aztecs

Mayan ruins

Easter Island (off the coast of Chile)

Machu Picchu and other Incan ruins

Lost city of Z (Brazil)- which may have been found recently

Puma Punku (Bolivia)

Any others? Why so many in South America? Comments?

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Is it my imagination or are there a lot of unexplained mysteries on the continent of South America?

Nazca Lines

Aztecs

Mayan ruins

Easter Island (off the coast of Chile)

Machu Picchu and other Incan ruins

Lost city of Z (Brazil)- which may have been found recently

Puma Punku (Bolivia)

Any others? Why so many in South America? Comments?

There are a great many mysteries you are right but trying to piece them together is not easy. It seems like it has been populated by man for 20,000 years or more. However, it seems that the increase in organized culture only started 2,000bce or later with the incoming Olmecs who are thought by some to be the first proto mayans who brought maths, astronomy and the ball game pok a tok that is still played in central america today. I think the greatest mystery is that it was not Columbus who discovered the Americas but a multitude of african and polynesian people for millenia before big Chris.

There are some great threads on this site about mayan sound technology and that stuff is a true unexplained mystery. The mayan society did collapse due to drought around 800ad but that there was spiritual technology before is pretty interesting. Was this a home grown part of culture or was it brought in?

Ive always found the Maya as the children of the corn an interesting concept and then you have the crystal skull debate. I don't wanna get into the whole thing but we do know that there was some sort of cult around skulls even if some are claimed as forgeries.

What's that nation Z thing? Is that like Hy Brazil or something? The underground city where some explorers allegedly dissappeared to. I can't find where I read about it but they were some cool stories.

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Ive always found the Maya as the children of the corn an interesting concept and then you have the crystal skull debate. I don't wanna get into the whole thing but we do know that there was some sort of cult around skulls even if some are claimed as forgeries.

Oh, but there is a remote possibility that they are not, if the Maya, Aztecs and whoever else, had modern CNC machines to make them.

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Oh, but there is a remote possibility that they are not, if the Maya, Aztecs and whoever else, had modern CNC machines to make them.

Sure but the alternative view is that large pices of crystal was sourced from underground caves and the passed down through generations who would use sand and water to create the form of a skull. I don't know if this is possible but it's worth considering.

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Sure but the alternative view is that large pices of crystal was sourced from underground caves and the passed down through generations who would use sand and water to create the form of a skull. I don't know if this is possible but it's worth considering.

Sure, it is. The problem is that with forensic means nowadays you can identify the used tool with 99.9% certainty. And if the tool was a water cooled carborundum disk your chances of any Mayan making the object are pretty low.

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Is it my imagination or are there a lot of unexplained mysteries on the continent of South America?

Nazca Lines

Aztecs

Mayan ruins

Easter Island (off the coast of Chile)

Machu Picchu and other Incan ruins

Lost city of Z (Brazil)- which may have been found recently

Puma Punku (Bolivia)

Any others? Why so many in South America? Comments?

Most of your 'unexplained' examples have reasonable scientific/historic explanations.

I never heard of a "Lost city of Z" in Brasil, or maybe you are thinking of that fraud called "Tatunca Nara" (A German guy playing 'white Indian" and creating one of the greatests hoaxes of the past century) or maybe "Colonel Fawcett"??

Then Puma Punku remains as the only true South American mystery.

But it's not 17,000 years old, as Posnansky claimed it was.

Now you have enough to Google, lol.

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I never heard of a "Lost city of Z" in Brasil, or maybe you are thinking of that fraud called "Tatunca Nara" (A German guy playing 'white Indian" and creating one of the greatests hoaxes of the past century) or maybe "Colonel Fawcett"??

There's a book out now called "The Lost City of Z" by David Grann (see Amazon) about the explorer Percy Fawcett. Also, there was a recent piece on CBS Sunday morning: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/21/sunday/main6229167.shtml

"In the last few years, archaeologists are now going into this region using high-tech gadgetry that Fawcett could never imagine - Satellite imagery, ground penetrating radars to pinpoint various artifacts," said Grann. "And they are discovering ancient ruins scattered throughout the Amazon.

"One archaeologist has found, in the very area where Fawcett believed he would find Z, 20 pre-Colombian settlements that had roads built at right angles, bridges, causeways, and that a cluster of these settlements that were interconnected had populations of between 2,500 to 5,000 people, which would have made them the size of many medieval European cities at the time."

Supposedly, Brad Pitt has bought the rights to the book to make a movie of the story of Fawcett.

Now you have enough to Google, lol.

Perhaps I didn't communicate clearly. I don't need additional info on the areas that I listed (I know how to google, etc., just fine). What I'm really interested in is that it seems like there are more numerous, somewhat mysterious ruins in Central & South America than in other parts of the world. Is this just my own misperception?

Edited by archernyc
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There are some great threads on this site about mayan sound technology and that stuff is a true unexplained mystery.

Ive always found the Maya as the children of the corn an interesting concept and then you have the crystal skull debate. I don't wanna get into the whole thing but we do know that there was some sort of cult around skulls even if some are claimed as forgeries.

I'll have to check out the stuff you mention about the Mayans above - sounds interesting. As for the crystal skulls, I totally forgot about them. Duh! Unless they're complete fakes, I find it hard to believe that they were not made with machines.

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There's a book out now called "The Lost City of Z" by David Grann (see Amazon) about the explorer Percy Fawcett. Also, there was a recent piece on CBS Sunday morning: http://www.cbsnews.c...in6229167.shtml

"In the last few years, archaeologists are now going into this region using high-tech gadgetry that Fawcett could never imagine - Satellite imagery, ground penetrating radars to pinpoint various artifacts," said Grann. "And they are discovering ancient ruins scattered throughout the Amazon.

"One archaeologist has found, in the very area where Fawcett believed he would find Z, 20 pre-Colombian settlements that had roads built at right angles, bridges, causeways, and that a cluster of these settlements that were interconnected had populations of between 2,500 to 5,000 people, which would have made them the size of many medieval European cities at the time."

Supposedly, Brad Pitt has bought the rights to the book to make a movie of the story of Fawcett.

Perhaps I didn't communicate clearly. I don't need additional info on the areas that I listed (I know how to google, etc., just fine). What I'm really interested in is that it seems like there are more numerous, somewhat mysterious ruins in Central & South America than in other parts of the world. Is this just my own misperception?

Give us links to scientists exploring the Amazon basin, not links to guys with nothing but an adventurous mind.

Btw, I believed Fawcett's accounts for many years, but now I want more than just a captivating story.

I want proof, not day-dreams.

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Give us links to scientists exploring the Amazon basin, not links to guys with nothing but an adventurous mind.

Btw, I believed Fawcett's accounts for many years, but now I want more than just a captivating story.

I want proof, not day-dreams.

Does this work for you?

http://www.archaeologydaily.com/news/201002103273/More-on-Archaeologists-study-signs-of-ancient-civilization-in-Amazon-basin.html

Here's a bit:

Brazilian archaeologist Denise Schaan still does not believe in the legendary land El Dorado, although she and her team keep finding signs of an ancient and advanced civilization in the western Amazon basin.

The signs point to a people that lived there more than a millennium ago in systematically built settlements with a sophisticated road network.

With the aid of satellite imagery and photographs taken from airplanes, the archaeologists have so far identified more than 260 geoglyphs, or large geometric figures carved in the ground. The figures have been laid bare by increasing deforestation of the long-impenetrable jungle.

'Up to now it's been nearly impossible to see the geoglyphs because they were covered by the dense rain forest,' Schaan, a professor at the Federal University of Para in Belem, Brazil, told the German Press Agency dpa.

Alceu Ranzi, a countryman and now Schaan's colleague, spotted the geoglyphs and quickly realized that the lines forming circles and rectangles, between 100 and 300 metres in diameter, must be man-made. He made his first discoveries in the late 1990s near the Bolivian border. Schaan and a Finnish archaeologist joined the search in 2005, and the three began evaluating aerial photographs.

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I'll have to check out the stuff you mention about the Mayans above - sounds interesting. As for the crystal skulls, I totally forgot about them. Duh! Unless they're complete fakes, I find it hard to believe that they were not made with machines.

The "crystal skulls" have been well discounted. See below for a brief breakdown. As to some of the other topics presented, they may not be so "mysterious" as one may be inclined to presume. For example, a study of Rapa Nui will reveal that many of the aspects involved have been resolved. Also, time-lines and "hype" should be taken into account. The use of terms such as "ancient" must be put into a proper and accurate time-frame.

http://www.archaeology.org/0805/etc/indy.html

.

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The "crystal skulls" have been well discounted. See below for a brief breakdown. As to some of the other topics presented, they may not be so "mysterious" as one may be inclined to presume. For example, a study of Rapa Nui will reveal that many of the aspects involved have been resolved. Also, time-lines and "hype" should be taken into account. The use of terms such as "ancient" must be put into a proper and accurate time-frame.

http://www.archaeology.org/0805/etc/indy.html

.

Thanks for the link, interesting article. Like I said, I find it hard to believe that they are not machine made....still, I find it interesting that museums were taken in. Why does the museum in Mexico exhibit theirs as if they are real artifacts? I realize that they are crowd-pleasers, but why not label them as fakes then?

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Sure but the alternative view is that large pices of crystal was sourced from underground caves and the passed down through generations who would use sand and water to create the form of a skull. I don't know if this is possible but it's worth considering.

Despite it's hardness, quartz can and has been worked into projectile points using nothing but traditional flintknapping techniques. Simple percussion flaking. Even if they weren't fakes, they could've been chipped and pecked and drilled closely to shape by hand in relatively short order, leaving just the final details to be ground and polished.

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I think they become mysteries because others want them to be. It is when others take over because they think their religon or beliefs are better..or for other options. Basically its when another x individual wants to dominate another being. When this happens a lot of culture or complete culture can be lost, this happened a lot with Native Americans and now most of their practices are gone. Within a few hundred years or less it would be easy to see forgetting them competely. However, when some are forgotten, even though many might of been wiped out by disease, war, or deadly assassination...some can still remain. Perhaps these roots we have lost, are not completely gone as one thinks, and such things will come back again.

Its like clothing trends..they come they go.

Quartz is an AMAZING tool and should not be underestimated, the healing properties are just phenomenal those who say otherwise certainly have not seen it's poteintal and need to do more research themselves. These natural properties of our mother earth should not be taken for granted and thrown. Mind you this is and has been used as healing techniques since a very long time, and currently being used in lights for healing techinques. To state otherwise is stupid, simply because you yourself haven't done enough studying about it. I am stating this because it brings up to the thing that as a society we believe it impossible to build and create such things..when they had much healthier minds in their creativity and will power as a whole.

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I don't think there are any more mysteries in South America than anywhere else.

In Europe, all of the little villages etc are still there, they mostly evolved into towns, cities etc so we know what the history of those towns are and they don't seem so strange, in South America we walked into a culture that was several hundred (or more) years old and seemed strange (re different).

It seems more mysterious due to the unknowns, but the likelyhood of them being what legend has created around some of them is pretty low. They were towns and villages that people spent there lives doing there thing, same as the rest of the world.

I think the remote jungle always adds an element of mystery, something about the vines, perhaps? :)

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As the world ignores chinese sources in regard to the mystery of Southamerican civilization, many interesting clues are missed under your nose. There is an uncanny similiarity of the inca god viracocha with the Liangzhu icon from neolithic China. Liangzhu icon has been introduced in my previous post, as it shows that the godmans face, eyes, crown are very similiar to that of Viracocha: Trapezoid faced, round-eyed, ray-crowned. The only discrepancy is the objects in their hands, Viracocha holds 2 snakes as clearly depicted on the Suns gateway in Tiwanaku temple, and the Liangzhu deity holds 2 circular objects around the eyes of the dragon. If not for one important item with the same deity, the similiarities mentioned above can still be considered as occasional, and insignificant since Liangzhu deity is not clearly depicted as snake holding god, which is the most important attribute of Viracocha. This is an jade item uncovered from one of the most elaborate burial sites from Liangzhu culture, this rare specimen of icon plate show their deity in another questure other than holding 2 obscure, unrecognizable circular objects and directly connecting the Liangzhu deity with the attribute of snake holding.

Liangzhu deity in gesture of snake holding, note the crested snake heads at each upper corners of the plate.

P11-artifact-ZJ34.jpg

The snake holding deity from the jade plate is clearly the same with that from yuchong which holds 2 circular objects(see my previous post), thus Liangzhu deity in whatever gesture he is essentially a snake holding god and the circular objects may also represent 2 snakes as well. As both snake holding gods, it is very unlikely that all similiarities between Viracocha and Liangzhu deity are only coincidences.

Viracocha

serpentViracocha.jpg

I think given this hard evidence of mesoamerican connection to ancient China, a new valuable perspective regarding the mesoamerican cultures cen be assumed. New discoveries will be revealed like nothing before based on this new perspective, it is just a matter if open-mindness to accept things other than White God theory. :lol:

Erm sorry, but that's not hard evidence, that's a theory. A researched one and I must say intriguing one, but that is by no means hard evidence.

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Excellent information astrios. Do you kow anything of the tibetan crystal skulls? That would seem to support your theory if they were proved genuine but this is quite a sketchy area so thanks for posting images of genuine artefacts that have undisputable authenticity. As I think I have mentioned before I think jade is important because of it's colour as green is symbolically highly important in myth.

Another thing I find highly significant is the Olmecs who appear to have a shared descent with China and Africa. Lightly posted a pic not long ago of an olmec statue and it clearly depicted an indivual of mongoloid ethnicity. This is interesting in itself but apparently the Olmecs (rubber people) called themselves Xi or Shi we have another connection with China I would say. Now I may be stretching it but in India and celtic Europe the druids and brahmins were called Sidhe but it was pronounced Shee. Any idea if this is a bona fide connection or mindess speculation anybody?

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Erm sorry, but that's not hard evidence, that's a theory. A researched one and I must say intriguing one, but that is by no means hard evidence.

All VERY interesting and I find SlimJim's comments interesting as well.

I have been interested in art and artifacts from China and India (really Asia in general) as most laypeople in the West don't really know much about them. To be honest, I learned more about world history when I took Art History in college than I ever did in High School.

I was just reading an article the other day about possible trade routes from Asia and Africa to South America and I'll see if I can find it again and post it. If so, that would certainly give credence to SlimJim's comments.

My ex-husband is Venezuelan so I asked him why there are no ruins (or very few) there. He said it's because Vzla was settled by the Caribe Indians who were more nomadic and warlike and therefore, not so interested in settling down and building something lasting.

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Excellent information astrios. Do you kow anything of the tibetan crystal skulls? That would seem to support your theory if they were proved genuine but this is quite a sketchy area so thanks for posting images of genuine artefacts that have undisputable authenticity. As I think I have mentioned before I think jade is important because of it's colour as green is symbolically highly important in myth.

Except the familiar green jade we know today was less common in China during the period being referred to. White jade was actually much more popular.

Another thing I find highly significant is the Olmecs who appear to have a shared descent with China and Africa. Lightly posted a pic not long ago of an olmec statue and it clearly depicted an indivual of mongoloid ethnicity. This is interesting in itself but apparently the Olmecs (rubber people) called themselves Xi or Shi we have another connection with China I would say. Now I may be stretching it but in India and celtic Europe the druids and brahmins were called Sidhe but it was pronounced Shee. Any idea if this is a bona fide connection or mindess speculation anybody?

Soundalikes are a less than reliable basis for comparisan. I believe you'll find the individual words have completely different meanings between the three cultures.

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The point is whether the legends about the crystal skulls are genuine,if there was a true traditional mayan legend about the crystal skulls then some of them MUST be genuine.

The technology of precise carving has also been noted in neolithic China, a culture called Liangzhu Culture(3300BC) was able to carve small icons with intricate features on jade. Jade has a hardness value of Mohs 6.5-7, almost equal to quartz. The icon in question is only measured about 3X3.5 centimeters in height and width, depicting a godman opening 2 eyes of a dragon. The tiny stripes that carved into the godmens crown and body and his beast are thinner than a hair shaft. The whole features can only be seen clearly under magnifying glass. I think the technology of carving Liangzhu icon is the same with that of carving mayans crystal skull.

To my knowledge jade carving technique has remained relatively unchanged for thousands of years. Namely, the use of fine hand-powered bow drills. If there are examples from later periods with the same degree of workmanship, And I think there may be, those would tend to negate your argument.

Moreover, Liangzhu icons are found on a kind of jade ritual instrument called Yuchong(or jade shaft in English), purpose of which is still unknown. A Yuchong is carved with great precision from a single block of jade, showing perfctly straight lines,perfect circles,and equilateral rectangles.

Ritual instrument Yuchong carved from a single block of jade, there are about 3-4 hundrels of this kind artifacts unearthed so far:

That appears to correspond to what are usually called Kong or Tsung, symbolizing the earth. Perhaps Yuchong is the name in a different dialect?

Godman icon, dimension : 3X3.5 centimeters. Note the well organized tiny stripes that compose many perfectly shaped circles, and spirl symbolisms.

It is fascinating how people 5300 years ago could carve such intricate icons within a given small space, not to mention the jade has a remarkable hardness too. Many scholars suggest diamonds or crystal blades, however, nothing of that sort of relics have ever been found so far, not even metal instruments. The instruments supposedly used to carve the Liangzhu jade artifacts are never identified. How Liangzhu people carved their icons and yuchongs still remain a mystery today. Whatever method Liangzhu people used to carve their icons, could be the same that mayan used to carve their crystal skulls. One crystal skull seems to be genuine to me, the one owned by Mitchell Hedges.

Again, we know how the Chinese carved intricate jades up to the modern era thanks to writings on the subject by observers and the Chinese themselves. They had no problems producing highly detailed work with hand tools throughout the period of contact with the west when any advanced tech of the implied level would've surely been noticed.

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I am not aware of existence of a tibetan crystal skull, but it may exist after all because information about Tibet available on internet in China is only limited to travelling and very basic history, there is a political sensitivity about Tibet. About chinese crystal skulls, here is a private collectors blog alleging a new discovery of a crystal skull in 2007. I am not sure about its authenticity because there is no much discussion about it in China.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4e975b4a01000bft.html

However, there is a jade skull from 4000BC, but was poorly made, it looks like a chimps skull more than human.

http://finance.ifeng.com/money/collection/20100329/1978117.shtml

The olmec heads are surely negroid, not mongoloid, while the olmec jade carving show undoubtfully mongoloid features. Given the different regards toward the stone and jade, mongoloids were among the nobles and the negroids were likely soldiers. It is still a mystery how negroid flooking people were known to olmecs. There is maybe an error in dating olmec culture, if the olmecs were from the East(Africa), it would be unexplicable why there is no trace of their presence in Africa and western coast of Eurasia around 2000BC? No history records references, no similiar relics. If they were indeed migrated from Africa where they met neroid people, the time of this occurence must be earlier than 3000BC in order to leave no traceable evidences of their presence. Also it is interesting to remark on a name of an Egyptian God Shu, it is exactly the same name for a mysterious legendary ancient chinese tribe of eye worshippers. A chinese character for Shu is “蜀” , the character has 2 important components: one is the character for "eye" -目, which is lying on its side as you can see; the another is “虫” which means worms in modern days, but this character means dragon or snake in ancient chinese writings. Chinese character 蜀 literally means the eyes of the dragon, and it prounonces in chinese exactly like that of Shu for the Egyptian god in English pronunciation. The word Shi, may have been a variation of Shu, therefore the olmecs may be the descendents of Shu people, the worshippers of the dragons eyes. Eye worship is also shown in Liangzhu just discussed above, on the jade shaft you can see many eye symbols on the square sides of the shaft. In general sense, Shu means dragon eye worshippers in chinese ancient language, a subsidiary to snake cult. Eyes worship also contains elements of Sun and Moon worship, since the 2 eyes of the dragon represent the sun and the moon each. As for Shee, it is interesting that the celtic people also refer to them as a distinctive tribe! In chinese legend, Shu people are described as having tails, and slanted upward eyes(in a beautiful way), wielding supernatural powers as well. Thet can be killed by nothing except for white colored stones and newly plucked tree branches. There was a war between shu people and native tribes, natives were unable to fight their magical power, then in a dream a god appeared to a trbe leader telling them o use white stones and tree branches to fight them. Shu may be a superhuman race before settlement of modern humans. The most remarkable thing of shu people is their eyes, so untill today chinese people called shu as "people with long, perpendicular eyes", in a beautiful sense.Acording to description of chinese legend, their eyes may look like this, but more radical, the outer corner of the eyes stretch to upper parts of both temples:

200801241042161039513838.jpg

More interstingly, I have read a UFO report from a german source saying the humanoid(not greys)alien that came into contact with the US govt were also described as having highly slanted eyes.

Some nice connections to be made here I think but the nature of the discussion makes it highly speculative in part from my POV. Firstly, I am reading a Stephen King book called Eye of the Dragon and a while ago I had an experience where during sleep it felt as if I was drawn into a fractal pattern shaped like a dragons eye and I had lucid dreams that were quite useful. I'd say the eye of the dragon could be related to shamanic practices of activiating the third eye. Another thing is that in Revelations or somewhere there is reference to 'dragon speech' which I had always taken to be telepathy.

I will have to look into white jade and white stones and tree branches used to fend off the Shu people. Very interesting stuff and slightly reminescent of the druids and how they thought of mistletoe. It was apparently one of the only things that could harm the gods and this is how Baldur was killed in Norse legend.

Lastly, the upslanted eyes speaks to me of elves. No this is not fantasy but a historic belief in otherworldly beings such as the Tuatha de Danaan. The most reports of encounters with elves describes them as having almond shaped eyes, sometimes with a purple iris. Omniomancer I shall endeavour to discover the meaning of the word Shee or sidhe to various cultures but before I look I reckon they will be something like wise or immesred. I will look but I accept this is specualtive stuff though I find it highly important. The idea of elves or faeries usually includes them being at one with nature so this could be a reason why we find so few artefacts. I equally appreciate that they do not in fact exist but at the same time they may do but just are more careful not to litter or build permanent structures. Not sure why the Olmecs then started carving heads in stone but I guess to prove that africans and mongoloids were in ancient South and central America.

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hi, Slim mentioned the oriental looking guy found at La Venta Mexico Olmec site.. so i thought i would show it again. Included in this Gif are other oriental looking figures found at Olmec sites. If you look at the giant Olmec Heads you will see broad noses and large lips... often you will also see quite oriental looking almond shaped eyes.. . I'll try to find a large image of the group of standing statues found a La Venta.. they are Very oriental looking.

post-86645-127695168167_thumb.gif click to enlarge.

*

Edited by lightly
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Baldurs mother was Frigg, not to be confused with Freya.

http://fanzone50.com/Tales/Nordic-Baldur.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frigg

On the subject of jade, check out this wiki link to see an example of an Olmec face mask in jade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olmec

So Sidhe in gaelic transltes to faeries or of the faery mounds. I find this a little strange but I guess over the years our understanding of faeries has been distorted. Probably originates with river and forest folk who lived in harmony with nature and existed as the druids of Europe who also consisted of seers called Ovates or the greek Fates and also Bards.

This is most curious when looking into the sankrit translation of Siddhi, basically to be accomplished at all manner of things. Check this wiki link to see how these powers are close to folklore on elves and faeries. Norse mythology is also steeped in parralels such as giants, dwarfs and magick trees just like the celtic tradition and of course there are similarities with the Vedas and the wars between the competing sides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhi

http://www.himalayaninstitute.org/yogaplus/Article.aspx?id=3063

http://gblt.webs.com/Druids.htm

http://www.druidry.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=PagEd&file=index&topic_id=1&page_id=164

There are just so many sites comparing druids with the brahmins but I think this originated in China before being tramsitted west by land and possibly east by sea. This all just speculation but one thing that is undeniable is the common and prfound usage of the serpent as a symbol.

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I love this clash of intellectuals.But is only a mystery when you dont understand.I am not shedding eny light on this subject.

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