[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[cormac mac airt]

Alewyn - As previously noted, my professional work restricts the time available to provide critique, so, again, my apologies. That said;

"Could this realignment of planet earth around her axis have had an influence on the ancient lake Agassiz in Manitoba, western Ontario, northern Minnesota, eastern North Dakota, and Saskatchewan? Did it contribute to the de-glaciation of North America? This could also explain why we do not find evidence of advanced civilizations in Canada and North America. The area would have been part of the old polar regions and therefore covered with ice. Even the last Mammoths on Wrangle island in the Arctic Ocean became extinct in ca 2000 BC as a result of the asteroid impact". - Alewyn

This supposition is simply incorrect. While Steve's work is (by his own admission) in need of a bit of an update, it should assist you in placing events into an understood time-frame.

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/glkhist/glkhist0.htm

"The Oera Linda Book is perhaps the most graphic and accurate record we have today of the catastrophe that hit planet earth and more specifically the North Atlantic coast of Europe and Britain towards the end of the third millennium BC". - Alewyn

Now how does this statement relate to the Burckle "crater", which, again, has not yet been fully proven to be an impact crater and has not yet been firmly dated? Despite Puzzlers proposition, a dating variation of even 1500 years +/- would place both positions as mute.

"4. The thick forest and vegetation cover coupled with dense populations and concentrated cultivation make the identification of prehistoric remains more difficult and expensive than the open deserts of the East". - Alewyn

While this statement may appear to have a degree of superficial validity, it does not display a working knowledge of current archaeological methodology or the results thereof. A study of the professional publications available for whichever geographic area that may be of concern will quickly validate this point. Work with it all the time.

"I agree that the individual pieces of evidence at this stage is not conclusive. I doubt that we shall ever be able to say that there is absolutely no doubt involved. If we,however, try to establish the absolute proof on every single fact, we will never make any progress. What I am trying to establish is the balance of probabilities and then to move on". - Alewyn

One may wish to evaluate this position. I could be quite incorrect here, but some may interpret this to mean that "well, I don't have my facts straight, but just believe me on this".

As a last note - Early on you presented your "findings" as a "dissertation". Given your professional background, one may be led to believe that you fully understand the import of this term. Later you use the term treatise. Ditto. Now it has become a story...

Again, my compliments on your willingness to expose your text to critical scrutiny. Would authors of similar bent be so courageous.

.

Not that Alewyn would do so (don't know this person well enough to know), but I've seen this used in such a way as to be interpreted as "keep throwing facts at me, as I intend to keep moving the goal posts". A common tactic on forums such as this. BTW, I'm still waiting to see evidence of major Y Chromosome Haplogroups or multiple sub-clades thereof having gotten up and migrated (specifically) c.2193 BC, which is contrary to what is known from the current Y Chromosome Haplogoup Tree - 2010.

cormac

[The Puzzler]

The Celts were not friends with the Freya people of the OLB, so I dont think their Oghamn script has anything to do with the OLB script. It doesn't even resemble it for one bit.

But many examples of the Ogham script survived on stones to this day, and nothing survived of the OLB script, except in the OLB itself.

That's what makes me wonder...

I'm wondering heaps myself...

Anyways, I do now understand they were different people and for clarification, maybe Slim would be interested and yourself, if you don't already know of how they were: (this link is actually about genetics)

As I am a historian and not a geneticist it may help if I outline the historical evidence on the ethnic origins of the English. There is no dispute that British Celtic) elements were predominant in Cornwall and Cumbria, where Celtic languages survived long after the Anglo-Saxon invasions. There is also good evidence of British elements surviving in Kent and Wessex (see esp. Myres, ‘The English Settlements’, pp.147-73). But beyond that, there has been controversy since Victorian times. At one extreme, which I call the ‘Wipeout’ theory, it is believed that Celts were virtually exterminated or expelled by the invading Anglo-Saxons. At the other extreme, which I call the ‘Upper Crust’ theory, the Anglo-Saxons took over as a ruling elite but left the peasants largely untouched (rather like the later Norman Conquest). And of course there are intermediate positions.

The main lines of evidence are as follows:

Written sources: the main sources - Gildas, Bede, and the Anglo- Saxon Chronicle - make it clear that invaders from the Continent took political control of what is now England, and that in many places there was violent conflict between the invaders and native forces. But there are no reliable written sources on the numbers and proportions of different groups.

Language: the Old English or Anglo-Saxon language, in its various forms, is purely Germanic in its grammar and vocabulary, with no discernible Celtic element. If the Celts learned English, they learned it very thoroughly. The later Danish settlements strongly influenced the form of Old English spoken in eastern England, but did not replace it.

Place-names: the names of major towns and rivers often show some derivation from Celtic or Romano-British names, but the names of rural settlements are overwhelmingly Germanic (Anglo-Saxon or Danish), except in western England, where there is a ‘cline’ of increasing Celtic influence. However, there have been controversial claims that some Anglo-Saxon names have disguised Celtic origins.

Continental evidence: before the Anglo-Saxon settlement of England there were people known as Angles in northern Germany, and after it there weren’t. Around the same time, the Armorican peninsula was settled by Celtic Britons, to the extent that the area became known as Britain (Bretagne or Brittany). This certainly looks like a mass displacement of populations.

Religion: late Roman Christianity and Celtic religions disappeared from England and were replaced by Anglo-Saxon paganism until Christian missionaries from Ireland and Rome arrived.

Archaeology: there are few recognisable remains of any kind from the 5th century. After that, archaeological remains are mainly Germanic in style. It was formerly assumed by archaeologists that a change in style of this kind involved a migration of people, but the recent tendency has been to assume that styles change by ‘cultural diffusion’ or elite influence. Sometimes archaeologists seem to forget that ‘no conclusive proof that A’ is not the same

as ‘conclusive proof that not-A’.

Social structure and customs: the evidence from Anglo-Saxon poetry, laws, etc., is of a Germanic/Scandinavian society and customs. However, some sources do refer to ‘wealh’ (Welsh) inhabitants, who are presumed to be surviving Britons. The laws of Ine, king of Wessex in the late 7th century, make it clear that ‘wealh’ people could be either free or slaves (theow), and that they could belong to ‘wealh’ kinship groups, which implies survival of more than isolated individuals. Also, some charters and other documents refer to substantial numbers of slaves. (It complicates matters that the word ‘wealh’ itself, which originally meant ‘foreigner’ or ‘stranger’, may sometimes be used to mean ‘slave’, implying status rather than necessarily ethnic origin.)

http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/000648.html

In putting that up, I do note that it is a controversial theory that some Anglo-Saxon place names may have disguised Celtic roots.

I don't claim to have much knowledge at all of Dutch, Dutch people, Frisian people or Anglo-Saxons, the land or their history but I am learning heaps as I go, which is good.

[Alewyn]

My Statement:

Our so-called Hindu-Arabic numerals 1 to 9 supposedly evolved from the Brahmi system. The Indian mathematician Aryabhatta is given the credit and Brahmagupta introduced the symbol zero 100 years later in the 6th century AD. Yet, for thousands of years before people were already building pyramids, temples and palaces. They drew up bills of quantities for construction and purchase. International trade and commerce thrived and the logistics for massive military campaigns had to be calculated. Complex astronomical calculations and other scientific work were done – all without a proper system of numerals?

....

The Searcher:

I find your statement a tad arrogant and demeaning here, sorry. You seem genuinely to believe that before the Hindu-Arabic numeral system, they didn't have anything comparable. Well this is of course not the case. Allow me to show you otherwise. Let's take Egypt as example, they had an elaborate system, had fractions, etc. Check the Wiki page, which for once is not too shabby. You'll see that saying what you say is doing them injustice.

I could no quite understand your remark untill I realised that you did not read my statement properly. Did you notice the question mark at the end of the paragraph? That is what, I think, is called a rhetorical question. It means that I also dispute the statement from the guys who said that numerals started with the Indians. Your remark, therefore, is absurd.

[The Puzzler]

This is hard to read because it's like one big long sentence but it looks to give a wrap up of the story in the book, which is what I was looking for, even though I haven't scrutinised it yet, thought it might be helpful again..

Helps to add the link http://destiny.13.forumer.com/a/from-goddess-to-kingoera-linda-book_post81.html

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

In fact, if no one minds, I'm going to put some of the excerps of it here for some more reasoning for the OLB.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AUTHOR’S INTRODUCTION One hundred and twenty-five years ago, an ancient manuscript was translated into modern languages. It became known as the Oera Linda Book and the stories it told revealed the secrets of the Matriarchal Age of Western Europe. It recorded the history of the Children of Frya, the mother goddess of their race and of her Sacred `Tex’ that gave them the social and moral values they needed to build a great nation, perhaps the greatest civilization of the ancient world. It told of the struggle that the earth mothers had to maintain the freedom against the invasions and influence of the princes and priests of the foe from the East. Their struggle gave us our own Western values, and many of the heroes and heroines of our classical mythology. This book tells that inspiring and interesting story in present day language with messages for today as we go through our change of ages. The story begins in the timeless Age of Taurus when mythical goddesses mothered their children but that age ended in the "bad times" that heralded the coming of the Age of Aries. Devastating land disruptions, volcanic activity, floods and forest fires changed the map of Europe. It is so recorded in this oldest of writings to survive in Western Europe. The new age began with the earth mothers, citadel maidens and the long voyages of the sea-kings, ending two thousand years later with the patriarchs, the royal kings that demanded recognition and fealty for favors, and a distrust of women’s contributions to society. This story is about a racially protective society that would inevitably fail to maintain its integrity, even though the people tried to educate foreign traders and rowers into their ways. The center of growth, for Europe, had to shift to the east, where it was more rewarding to serve the family than the community. It had to bottom out and then work up from there. Has this happened yet? Our civilization has now become a global one where both western and eastern values are being tested on all fronts. I believe it took a long time to reach bottom in a global sense. A world cooperation based on humanity, not race, is building from that base; it is progressing now even though in many of today’s hot spots there are attempts at ethnic genocide. There are diverse peoples, all over the world, inspiring the building of a more advanced society from personal example, but it is a minority; too many still feel they have to defend their own separateness and at all costs indulge and collect in the material world. With higher populations and limited resources, this leads to desperate competition for fear of missing out; to greed in the face of potential plenty. Thousands of years ago in Western Europe, a society attempted to maintain a high state of consciousness and individual freedom that was based on a moral and civil code, where men and women were respected for their intrinsic abilities. This is the heritage of Europe. Borrowing a history from the Middle East has not satisfied this desire that myths like Atlantis continue to kindle. This is not the presentation of a paper or a dissertation with the source of every thought referenced. Neither is it fiction. It is the offering, once again, of an old work, for the reflection and divertissement of the reader. The author was stimulated to explore these implications and add his comments. Such comments come from a variety of sources, many are listed in the bibliography, and many simply derive from a lifetime of living, with the only direct quotes coming from the Oera Linda Book. This edition contains a modern language rendition of the Oera Linda Book taken from the first English translation by William R. Sandbach in 1876 of the 1871 Frisian translation by Dr. J. O. Ottema. Dr. Ottema commissioned the original modern translation of the thirteenth century manuscript that was copied in ancient Frisian from a ninth century version. The English book is available on microfilm from the British Library, which reserves the right to permit any reproduction. This book is the story of groups of peoples who tried to keep a community together that originally extended across all of Europe, but eventually disappeared in the polders of the Netherlands. But did it disappear? We owe so much of our present Western civilization to them and take for granted our concepts of freedom, of democracy, our sense of honor and the very basics of our language that has structured the way we think. Too often we are guilty of depicting our own ancestors as primitive or ignorant rustics, incapable of understanding a civilized modern culture; but read on, and discover the origins of so many noble concepts that are now far less commendable. It is time this story was told.

[The Puzzler]

Going along some more I find this:

Scythian, The horsemen of the Slavonic regions that were originally considered part of Fryas race and culture before the first disasters. There have been many archaeological discoveries of these tall, fair people in the Caucasus regions.

Just as the article I linked a few posts back was saying how the Scythians were in the Punjab, I can now see a clear line from the North Sea to Scythia and down into Anatolia, which is what I suspected when I was looking for the Celts but see, now I know, I was getting mixed up, what appeared to be Celtic can also be Frisian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

On the map you can see Magda Germania, just above Dacia. The Dacian, or Getae as they are known are a very interesting people, who even have a link to Libya in the name of Getuli and a very spiritual background with Zalmoxis, who I reckon is the real Zeus.

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Puzzler

[Alewyn]

Not that Alewyn would do so (don't know this person well enough to know), but I've seen this used in such a way as to be interpreted as "keep throwing facts at me, as I intend to keep moving the goal posts". A common tactic on forums such as this. BTW, I'm still waiting to see evidence of major Y Chromosome Haplogroups or multiple sub-clades thereof having gotten up and migrated (specifically) c.2193 BC, which is contrary to what is known from the current Y Chromosome Haplogoup Tree - 2010.

cormac

You still do not get the picture do you?

I am giving you the book chapter by chapter so that you can follow the logic. Hopefully by the end of it all you will get the whole picture and also where the genetics fit in.

I may just add that this book is not about genetics but about determining the authenticity of the Oera Linda Book. Genetics is just one piece of the puzzle.

I am not so stupid as to try and match your obvious superior knowledge on genetics. The little there is in my book about the subject is only that which I regard as relevant. Hopefully at the end of it all you will be able to add to it to complete the picture.

[Alewyn]

One may wish to evaluate this position. I could be quite incorrect here, but some may interpret this to mean that "well, I don't have my facts straight, but just believe me on this".

.

Your last sentence should read "...but just believe me on this FOR NOW."

As you read my book further you will see the collaborating evidence to my "speculation".

[TheSearcher]

I could no quite understand your remark untill I realised that you did not read my statement properly. Did you notice the question mark at the end of the paragraph? That is what, I think, is called a rhetorical question. It means that I also dispute the statement from the guys who said that numerals started with the Indians. Your remark, therefore, is absurd.

No, it's a misinterpretation of what you said, that's all. It's not "absurd", you're being unnecessarily abrasive. And yes, I'm telling you off.

This said, I've still to see any proof at all, for the OLB script, other than what the book claims. Had the OLB script and numerals been the origin of all the things it claims, then we would have found evidence thereof, but to date : nothing whatsoever. No stone with inscriptions, no monument, no papyrus, not even a scratch.

24 hour day, again the same scenario, only the OLB claims it was the origin thereof. Again, not a scratch of evidence apart from it. The source of your joints and fingers theory is not Wiki btw., I checked, wiki shows the same explanation as I do.

Here is something I added in an earlier post as a response to yours, which you missed I think.

What would you mean by Neferti being to close to others, I'm not following? All I can say is that it is a classical piece of propaganda of the ancient times in Egypt, it has all the hallmarks for it and is even historically used that way. The fact that it contains parts and ideas from another poem or writing is in itself not surprising. Plagiarism is not only a modern sickness after all It must have occurred, that the Neferti text must have borrowed from other more ancient pieces?

I do think the papyrus itself and the story on it to be genuine, it refers in my opinion to the Thera event, as the papyrus is dated ca. 1850 BCE-1600 BCE and the Thera event is dated to ca. 1650-1600 BCE (the latter is dated according to dendrochronology and radiocarbon dating). The dates seem to fit together.

Now here is the potential problem I kinda spotted later and the gods know I usually am not a conspiracy theorist at all.

The OLB was allegedly given to Eelco Verwijs by Cornelis Over de Linden in 1867. The Ipuwer papyrus was purchased from Giovanni Anastasi, the Swedish consul to Egypt, in 1828 and housed in the Dutch National Museum of Antiquities in Leiden. Jean-François Champollion made the complete decipherment of the Egyptian hieroglyphs by the 1820.

Over de Linden, Verwijs and Haverschmidt, were all three learned men, having through Verwijs access to most literary works and publications. Could it be that they deciphered part of the papyrus themselves and decided to use it in their book? I mean it's, as far as hoaxes go, quite elaborate, so I'm sure they would have gone the extra mile.

This said, I'll be honest, I only saw the date correlation after my girlfriend pointed it out to me. And yes, I find it just a bit too much of a coincidence.

OK, Akkad, well not a lot to say about it, as most things have already been posted. The Akkadian empire did collapse between 2200 BCE and 2400 BCE. This said, it has been surmised that the 4.2 kiloyear event (as Puzzler calls it), was caused by a Bond Event, which is a climate fluctuation occurring every ≈1,470 ± 500 years throughout the Holocene.

Here is a list of the bond events as far as they can be traceable.

* ≈1,400 BP (Bond event 1) — roughly correlates with the Migration Period pessimum (450–900 AD)

* ≈2,800 BP (Bond event 2) — roughly correlates with the Iron Age Cold Epoch (900–300 BC)

* ≈4,200 BP (Bond event 3) — correlates with the 4.2 kiloyear event (correlates with the collapse of the Akkadian Empire and the end of the Egyptian Old Kingdom)

* ≈5,900 BP (Bond event 4) — correlates with the 5.9 kiloyear event (correlates with the end of the Pre Pottery Neolithic B, and the arrival of nomadic pastoralists in the Middle East)

* ≈8,100 BP (Bond event 5) — correlates with the 8.2 kiloyear event

* ≈9,400 BP (Bond event 6) — correlates with the Erdalen event of glacier activity in Norway, as well as with a cold event in China.

* ≈10,300 BP (Bond event 7) — unnamed event (correlates with the beginnings of grain agriculture in the Middle East)

* ≈11,100 BP (Bond event 8) — coincides with the transition from the Younger Dryas to the boreal

Now I find the correlation is very interesting, to say the least, because it seems to provide another reason for the collapse of the Akkadian empire. I'm no expert, of course, but this looks like food for some serious rethinking of the theory. This even fits better than the Burckle impact to be honest.

.....

Thanks a bunch, I'll see if I can find the publication.

[The Puzzler]

I found this info when looking for some sort of impact c. 2200BC

There have been excavations on the Lisan peninsula, which nearly cuts the southern part of the Dead Sea off from the rest of it. It is also different from the main Dead Sea in that it's mean depth is very different from the rest of the Dead Sea, only 10 m in average. It seems that there was a great catastrophe around 2200 BC that has destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The surface of the Dead Sea dropped suddenly by 100m around 2200 BC (Frumkin et al., The Holocene 1.3, 1991). If we take the story in Genesis for what it seems to indicate, the whole southern part of the Dead Sea may be an impact crater that was caused by a cosmic disaster, one piece in the 2200 BC disaster.

http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari2.htm

Again, there seems to be a co-inciding meteorite/comet impact and flood/climate change at this same time (more than 2800BC imo).

I don't know if it's the Burckle or which one but I do think an impact event and a climate change happened same time c. 2200BC.

So, I was looking more into it and may the Dead Sea holds some clues. It occurred to me that if indeed the Lord struck Sodom and Gomorrah that Abraham's Lord or even Abraham might have known about this forecoming event.

Then it occurred to me that Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees and thought, well, since he can change staffs into snakes and make water and such, he could even be a Magi himself. If Abraham did fight 4 Kings in the battle in the Valley of Siddim he must have held some sort of rank or importance, maybe a priest king of a sort, since his family lines seemed to go to be Kings later on and even Joseph is pretty high to the King.

So, it seemed to me that the portents that Abraham gave might have been in realtion to astrology events he knew about and if he was a Magi.

The lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah.

I found this info:

However, what if the craters resulted from comet fragment impacts? Is there any evidence to support this alternative? This possibility is investigated using the following well-known illustrations:

1) Comet Hale-Bopp

2) Comet Shoemaker-Levy

3) The Meteor Crater in Arizona

4) 3D Comet Impact Simulation

5) Satellite Image of Israel

6) Wabar Craters in Saudi Arabia

7) Map of Holy Land (500 A.D.)

8) Genesis 19:13-30 (NKJV)

As will be shown, these eight elements provide some supporting evidence for comet-fragment impacts.

TOP OF PAGE

SUMMARY

The recent passage of the large comet Hale-Bopp indicates that it was also here about 4000 years ago (2000 B.C.). The comet's orbit is unusual in that it is perpendicular to the plane of the earth (ecliptic) and crosses the path of both Jupiter and the earth. If the timing of its orbit (2000 B.C.) caused it to pass very close to Jupiter, followed 15 months later by a close earth passage, then fragments torn from this comet by Jupiter could have impacted the earth.

Further, if the timing of the earth's rotation placed Israel as a target for these fragments, then this would explain the origin of the Three Craters in Israel. These 2000 B.C. fragment impacts are coincidental with the Biblical Sodom / Gomorrah catastrophe, (dated 2066 B.C.). This scenario might also account for a sudden evaporation of water from the lower Dead Sea region. A calculated one billion tons of fragments from Hale-Bopp, (impacting at 110,000 miles per hour), has the potential for vaporizing about 120 cubic miles of water, reducing the remaining water to a brine solution. The calculated impact energy is equivalent to about 30 times all the nuclear bombs in the world, (an assumed 10,000 megatons for all bombs). At the same time, the impacts may have caused a large landfill area between the Dead Sea and Elat, closing off the Red Sea from the Dead Sea.

http://gsanctuary.com/3craters.html

So, it seems that around 2000BC a close encounter with Hale-Bopp comet may have resulted in large fragments coming off and hitting the area around the Dead Sea, the Jordan Plain, where Sodom and Gomorrah is.

Here is some more on that:

As was noted in the Summary, Hale Bopp's 2071 B.C. earth passage is close (within five years) to the time of the Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah catastrophe dated 2066 B.C

This pic from that site shows the Big and Little Craters right near the south end of the Dead Sea, right near where Sodom is.

Some other pictures there too.

Food for thought if they are from a comet.

[Leonardo]

I found this info when looking for some sort of impact c. 2200BC

Al I can say, Puz, is "wildly speculative to the point of unbelievability."

If there was actual geological evidence of such a recent impact event, I'd grant the hypothesis. But here isn't. No impact feature (crater), despite the pic you posted which purports to show "big crater" and "little crater" (which are actually wind-sculpted escarpments) and, most tellingly, no evidence in the rock to indictae an impact (no 'shocked' quartz or other crystalline substances.)

If you wish to invest a little in your research, I'd suggest purchasing and reading this paper, which details the particular geology of the area, and how it was subject to liquefaction during strong seismic events (earthquakes, not impacts.)

The whole region is very seismically active and this, rather than looking for some catastrophe from the heavens, is the likely basis for many of the disasters told in ancient literature of the region.

[Alewyn]

Chapter 3

Legacy of the Outcasts

Refugees from the East

One hundred and one years (2092 BC) after the global disaster that caused the submersion of the Frisian Altland, refugees from the East moved into Finland in North Eastern Scandinavia, or Skenland, as the Frisians called it. Although this was part of the Fryan Federation, the Frisians were not prepared to go to war over the matter. One can only assume that their forces and infrastructure were depleted to such an extent after the 2193 BC event that they were not equipped for a military conflict. They had already lost most of their dominion around the Mediterranean from the scourge of a hundred years earlier and a political settlement, or denial of this new threat, must have seemed much more attractive.

The Magyarar and Finnar

The leader of the refugees who arrived in Finland was a despotic Priest-King with the title of Magy. The rest of the ruling classes, or oligarchy, were called Magyarar. While the Magyarar possessed bronze weapons, their Neolithic subordinates or slaves were equipped with stone weapons. The latter were kept in check by the Magyarar through superstition and witchcraft. They were named Finnar by the Frisians. This was because they were regarded as Asians, otherwise known as descendants of Finda. Mention is made of a third group of Wild Shepherds who were continuously snapping at the heels of the Magyarar.

Let us compare the Oera Linda account with our modern theories:

5. In the year 101 after the submersion of Aldland a people came out of the east. That people was driven by another. Behind us, in Twiskland, they fell into disputes, divided into two parties, and each went its own way. Of the one no account has come to us, but the other came in the back of our Skenland (Scandinavia), which was thinly inhabited, particularly the upper part. Therefore they were able to take possession of it without contest, and as they did no other harm, we would not make war about it.

6. Now that we have learned to know them, we will describe their customs, and after that how matters went between us. They were not wild people, like most of Finda's race; but, like the Egiptalandar, they have priests and also statues in their temples. The priests are the only rulers; they call themselves Magyarar, and their leader Magy. He is high priest and king in one. The rest of the people are of no account, and in subjection to them.

7. This people have not even a name; but we call them Finnar, because although all the festivals are melancholy and bloody, they are so formal that we are inferior to them in that respect. But still they are not to be envied, because they are slaves to their priests, and still more to their creeds.

8. They believe that evil spirits abound everywhere, and enter into men and beasts, but of Wr-alda’s spirit they know nothing. They have weapons of stone, the Magyarar of copper. The Magyarar affirm that they can exorcise and recall the evil spirits, and this frightens the people, so that you never see a cheerful face. (OLB: Book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXIII)

The Finnish language, which belongs to the Finno-Permic language group, is the most closely related language to Estonian and Hungarian although Hungary is geographically a fair distance (1200 kilometres) away. The Hungarian language belongs to the Ugric group which have developed in parallel with the Finno-Permic languages some 4000 years ago. The Finno-Permic and Ugric groups, both of the Uralic language family, would appear to have parted ways west of the Ural Mountains – precisely what the Oera Linda Book tells us and in an area which it calls Twiskland. Neither of these language groups is related to the Indo-European languages.

The Hungarians still refer to themselves as Magyar, a name which, according to the Oera Linda Book, goes back to more than 4000 years to what used to be a priestly order called the Magyarar. Present-day scholars believe that the name Magyar might have been derived from the name or title Muageris or Mugel. This would then be the Oera Linda Book’s Magy.

The Oera Linda Book mentions a dispute between two groups in Twiskland after which they separated. The one group migrated to Finland and the other group disappeared. It would be reasonable to assume that this second group eventually settled in the region of Hungary and further south into the Balkans and Greece. This split is precisely what researchers find in their studies and would answer the Frisians’ 4000 year old question as to what happened to the second group.

The Altai Mountains in central Asia where Russia, China, Mongolia and Kazakhstan come together have been identified by scientists as the point of origin of a rapid and massive migration of peoples into distant parts of Europe and Asia at the start of the second millennium BC. Again we find the suggestion of the 2193 BC event and once more it corresponds with the Oera Linda Book. It is noteworthy that the region continues to experience periodic seismic activity.

The traditional religion of the indigenous Altaians is called Shamanism. This is a set of beliefs and practices whereby practioners communicate with the supernatural. A shamanist priest is known as a shaman who acts as an intermediary between the human and spirit worlds. They are supposedly capable of entering supernatural realms to provide answers for humans and to treat illnesses. Shamanism dates back to the Neolithic period and perhaps even as far back as the Paleolithic. The religion was practiced throughout the Iron Age by the various Teutonic tribes and the Fino-Baltic peoples.

In later Greek Mythology we find aspects of Shamanism, especially in their symbolic and mystic practices, having blended with elements of Greek paganism and Frisian monotheism. Shamanic practices later merged into Roman religion.

The Oera Linda Book’s description of the Magyarar’s religion is an exact match of that of Shamanism.

Genetic Traces

In terms of DNA mapping, we find that the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1a seems to have its highest concentration (+50%) in the Altai mountain region. From there it reduces towards Russia (±45%) and further still to central Europe (±40%) and Scandinavia (±20%). In Poland we find R1a to be more than 50% of the DNA profile of the general population, and in Hungary about 40%. In Greece the number drops to about 10%. Another major branch of R1a is found through Kyrgyzstan to India.

In light of the aforementioned it may be reasonable to suspect that the Magyarar were the carriers of this R1a haplogroup and that they originated from central Asia. Altai means Gold Mountain and the Oera Linda Book mentions that the Magyarar possessed substantial quantities of the metal. Gold is still mined in the Altai region.

The second group we need to look at here is what the Oera Linda Book calls the Finnar. It is evident that they were not merely a lower social order of the Magyarar, but a distinctly different ethnic group as their stone weaponry would suggest. They may well have been members of what archaeologists call the Comb Ceramic Culture; a group of settlers from the East that settled in Scandinavia at the same time as the Magyarars. There is a strong suspicion that they may have been related to the Yakuts (Haplogroup N) who originated from the Baikal Lake area north of Mongolia. The Yakuts practiced shamanism and also has genetic ties with the Nenets in northern Russia. The general population of the Sami in Scandinavia has about 40% of this haplogroup.

This episode is further proof that the Oera Linda Book is a credible historic document.

The influx of refugees from the East was part of the mass migration we saw in the Middle East and Egypt after the catastrophe of 2193 BC. It is interesting to note that we here find two distinctly different groups of people, being refugees, banding together for mutual support and protection. As we have seen, and from the description in the Oera Linda Book, the pagan Magyarar were very militant and regimental in their lifestyle and they dabbled in the occult. This sounds quite similar to the Hittites who settled in Anatolia at about the same time.

The Oera Linda Book mentions that the People of Finda experienced a similar catastrophe in the East in 2193. In addition, the book claims that the Easterners’ country was also submerged:

13. In early times almost all of Finda's people lived together in their mother-country, which like Aldland is now submerged. They were thus far away, and we had no wars.

(OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch, VII (13))

The Outcasts

For the next 80 years the Magy kept his subjects under control but in 2012 BC they attacked the Frisian Colony in Skenland. The Magyarar and Finnar advance was brought to a halt by the Skenland citizen force close to its provincial capital Godahisburch – present-day Gothenburg in Sweden. When the Frisian Federal Government was finally notified of the attack, they responded with a combined force of ships, marines and the army. With their superior iron weaponry the Frisians defeated the Mayarar decisively, and the Magy begged for a truce. It would appear that he quite literally offered a peace pipe – stuffed with marijuana, opium or the likes. He enticed the young army general or Warrior King Wodin of the Frisian army to become king of the Magyarar. Wodin duly accepted. Under Frisian law he would have held the position of general for three years only but under the Magyarar his monarchy would have been for life. Instead of an electorate he would now have had subjects and slaves.

23. When Wodin returned, Magy gave him his daughter to wife. Whereupon he was incensed with herbs; but they were magic herbs, and by degrees he became so audacious that he dared to disavow and ridicule the spirits of Frya and Wralda, while he bent his free head before the false and deceitful images. (OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXIII)

Wodin subsequently defeated the Magyarar’s other enemies, the wild shepherds, who led their charges on horseback. He then married the Magy’s daughter. From this union a son was born and after seven years Wodin disappeared. The pagan Magy declared that Wodin had ascended to the gods and would therefore continue to be their ruler. His grandson, being the direct descendant of a deity, would be the undisputed future king of the Magyarar. The Magy would be steward of the crown, or regent, until the future monarch would have become of age. Thus the mythological Wodin or Odin, the Norse god of war, came into being – possibly with the assistance of a drug overdose.

This acceptance of the crown of their enemy by Wodin went completely against the Frisian creed but neither the general of the marines, Sea King Tunis, nor his brother, Admiral Inka did anything to stop Wodin from continuing with what must have been tantamount to high treason. Perhaps with the wisdom they obtained from drugs they saw this as a political solution to the Magyarar problem. It would appear that although individual states enjoyed a fair amount of autonomy, the Federal Government would have had to sanction such a far-reaching departure from their constitution. It is near impossible to imagine that such a sanction would have been forthcoming in any event. Not only did they not drive out the Magyarar after defeating them in battle, they in effect legitimized a foreign government within their own boundaries. By not arresting Wodin, who was their cousin, the two brothers became accomplices to the fact. In centuries to come this foothold of the Magyarar and their subordinate Finnar proved to be a major factor in the demise of the Fryan Federation.

In his e-book, From Goddess to King Anthony Radford noted:

They had won the war but lost the peace.

Tunis and Inka stayed in Skenland for a total of 12 years ostensibly as a peacekeeping force. This in itself must have been a further contravention of Frisian law as their election to the positions was only for three years. With the disappearance of their cousin Wodin, the good life at the Magyarar court was over. They wanted to elect a new king but the Magy would have nothing of the sort. He must have realized that Tunis’s and Inka’s position had weakened substantially. They had not only lost a number of their ships and combatants who went back to Frisia but also lost the support of the Fryan Federation. They would not be able to call for reinforcements.

We do not know what other misdeeds the impetuous brothers committed in Skenland but when they wanted to return to Frisia in 2000 BC, the Folk Mother, Minna, refused them to set foot on land anywhere in Denmark and along the west coast of Frisia. It is probable that they would have been either arrested and banished to the tin mines in Britannia or they would even have been executed for treason. Thus they became outcasts.

It is clear that drugs played a significant role in the Fryan Federation’s loss of Finland and Sweden. This may further explain why Tunis and Inka did not take action against Wodin. The Magy would have kept them in supply as well.

It is strange that they were allowed to get away with a fleet of Frisian ships. Perhaps they now possessed the greater part of the Frisian Fleet or the main fleet was not available to accost them being on some trade mission elsewhere. In any event, the renegades were not captured.

Tunis and Inka proceeded with their fleet, which by now had a number of Finnar and Magyarar in their crews, (and possibly also wives) to Kadik, known to us as Cadiz in present-day Spain. The governor, or Burghmaid of Kadik, Tutia, allowed them to replenish their supplies but, being refugees, she would not give them asylum. The two brothers in arms, and in blood, now realized that they had lost their last chance of redeeming themselves in the Federation.

Cadiz is regarded as one of the oldest inhabited towns in Europe. In his Jewish Antiquities, Book 1, Chapter 6.1, written in ca 90 AD, Flavius Josephus mentions Cadiz as one of the destinations of Noah’s grandchildren:

Japheth, the son of Noah, had seven sons: they inhabited so, that, beginning at the mountains Taurus and Amanus, they proceeded along Asia, as far as the river Tanais (Tanis), and along Europe to Cadiz;

The Taurus Mountains are in Turkey and as mentioned earlier, the Tanais is today known as the River Don in Russia.

The Founding of Tyre

The Oera Linda Book continues with the history of Nef (Cousin) Tunis and the founding of Tyre in Phoenicia:

2. Here (Kadik) they bought all kinds of stores, but Tutia the burgh-femme would not allow them to settle there. When they were ready they began to disagree. Tunis wished to sail through the straits to the Middel Sea, and enter the service of the rich king of Egiptaland, as he had done before, but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people. Inka thought that perchance some high-lying part of Atland might remain as an island, where he and his people might live in peace.

3. As the two brothers could not agree, Tunis planted a red flag on the shore, and Inka a blue flag. Every man could choose which he pleased, and to their astonishment the greater part of the Finnar and Magyarar followed Inka, who had objected to serve the kings of Finda's people. When they had counted the people and divided the ships accordingly, the fleet separated. We shall hear of Tunis afterwards, but nothing more of Inka.

4. Nef Tunis coasted through the straits to the Middel Sea. When Atland was submerged there was much suffering also on the shores of the Middel Sea, on which account many of Finda's people, Heinde and Fere Krekalandar, and people from Lyda's land, came to us. On the other hand, many of our people went to Lyda's land .( These may well have been the ancestors of the Berbers of North Africa.) The result of all this was that the Heinde and Fere Krekalandar were lost to the superintendence of the folk-mother.

5. Tunis had reckoned on this, and had therefore wished to find there a good haven from which he might go and serve under the rich princes; but as his fleet and his people had such a shattered appearance, the inhabitants on the coasts thought that they were pirates, and drove them away.

6. At last they arrived at the Phonisiar coast, in the year 193 after Atland was submerged. (2000 BC)

7. Near the coast they found an island with two deep bays, so that there appeared to be three islands. In the middle one they established themselves, and afterwards built a burgh wall round the place. Then they wanted to give it a name, but disagreed about it. Some wanted to call it Fryasburch, others Neftunia; but the Magyarar and Finnar begged that it might be called Thyrhisburch.

8. Thyr was the name of one of their idols, and it was upon his feast-day that they had landed there; and in return they offered to recognise Tunis as their perpetual king. Tunis let himself be persuaded, and the others would not make any quarrel about it. (OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXIV (2-8))

In time, Thyrhisburch (Thor-his-Burgh or the Burgh of Thor) became Tyre. Modern day teaching has it that Tyre means Rock.

In Ezekiel 26:17 in the Bible, written some 1 420 years later in ca 580 BC, we read the following in the prophecy Ezekiel pronounced over Tyre:

(17) And they will take up a lamentation for you (Tyre), and say to you: “How you have perished, O one inhabited by seafaring men, O renowned city, Who was strong at sea,

A direct translation of the same verse in the Afrikaans Bible is even more specific:

How did you come to your end, O most famous city? You who have been inhabited from across the sea.

Both these Bibles have been translated from the original Greek and Hebrew texts. This is clearly more vindication of the Oera Linda Book.

The resourceful and entrepreneurial Sea King Tunis found himself on a barren island off the Phoenician coast with a decrepit fleet and an understaffed crew that was so haggard they looked like pirates. In order to survive, they had to get a share of the lucrative maritime trade. He therefore negotiated a partnership with the inhabitants of nearby Sidon. In exchange for twenty ships and some weaponry, he secured sufficient stock and crews to set out on his first sales trip. So successful was Tunis in his endeavours that we read in other later accounts that the famous city of Tyre was sought after and attacked by virtually every great empire for almost three millennia, including Alexander the Great and the Romans. The ancient island city of Tyre was eventually sacked by the Muslims in 590 AD – almost 2600 years after Sea King Tunis had built his burgh there. Mainland Tyre, however, exists to this day as the city of Sūr in Southern Lebanon.

When this prodigal son of Frya returned to Frisia with a fleet laden with luxury goods, all was forgiven. Perhaps this was because he presented an opportunity for the Frisians to rekindle their glorious merchant status of bygone days. He was given a free trade concession and warehouse facilities in his old country and his business venture was set to take off. This also says a lot about Tunis’ diplomatic and business acumen. In fact, so successful was his undertaking that it placed a stranglehold on the Frisian merchants who was subsequently given only temporary respite through state intervention – the merchants from Tyre were then only allowed seven ships a year to Flyland : (Present day Flevoland around the Ijsselmeer and Markermeer in the Netherlands)

9. When they were well established, they sent some senior navigators and Magyarar on an expedition as far as the burgh of Sydon; but at first the inhabitants of the coast would have nothing to do with them, saying:

10. ‘You are only foreign adventurers whom we do not respect’.

11. But when we sold them some of our silver weapons, everything went well. They also wished to buy our amber, and their inquiries about it were incessant. But Tunis, who was far-seeing, pretended that he had no more weapons or amber.

12. Then merchants came and begged him to let them have twenty vessels, which they would freight with the finest goods, and they would provide as many people to row as he would require. Twelve ships were laden with wine, honey, tanned leather, and saddles and bridles mounted in gold, such as had never been seen before.

13. Tunis sailed to the Flymar with all this treasure, which so enchanted the reeve of Westflyland that he induced Tunis to build a warehouse at the mouth of the Flymar. Afterwards this place was called Almanland, and the market where they traded at Wyringga was called Toletmark.

14. The folk-mother advised that they should sell everything except silver weapons, but no attention was paid to what she said. As the Thyriar had thus free play, they came from far and near to take away our goods, to the loss of our seafaring people. Therefore it was resolved in a general assembly to allow only seven Thyrier ships and no more in a year. ( OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXIV (9-14))

Here we have possibly the first recorded attempt at arms control.

A thousand years after Tunis founded Tyre, in ca 960 BC, we find a further interesting account in the Bible. King Solomon approached King Hiram of Tyre, an old friend of his late father, King David, to assist with the building of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem:

1 Kings 5:18

So Solomon’s builders, Hiram’s builders, and the Gebalites quarried them; and they prepared timber and stones to build the temple.

2 Chronicles 2:11-13

(11) Then Hiram king of Tyre answered in writing, which he sent to Solomon: Because the Lord loves His people, He has made you king over them.

(12) Hiram also said:

“Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, who made heaven and earth, for He has given King David a wise son, endowed with prudence and understanding, who will build a temple for the Lord and a royal house for himself!

(13) And now I have sent a skilful man, endowed with understanding, Huram my master craftsman, the son of a woman of the daughters of Dan, and his father was a man of Tyre, skilled to work in gold and silver, bronze and iron, stone and wood, purple and blue, fine linen and crimson, and to make any engraving and to accomplish any plan which may be given to him, with your skilful men and with the skilful men of my lord David your father.”

Chronicles 4:11-16

(11) Then Huram made the pots and the shovels and the bowls. So Huram finished doing the work that he was to do for King Solomon for the house of God: (12) the two pillars and the bowl-shaped capitals that were on top of the two pillars; the two networks covering the two bowl-shaped capitals which were on top of the pillars; (13) four hundred pomegranates for the two networks (two rows of pomegranates for each network, to cover the two bowl-shaped capitals that were on the pillars); (14) he also made carts and the lavers on the carts; (15) one Sea and twelve oxen under it; (16) also the pots, the shovels, the forks—and all their articles Huram his master craftsman made of burnished bronze for King Solomon for the house of the Lord.

Solomon mentioned that the Tyrians were exceptional artisans when it came to wood and stonework. From this account it is clear that Solomon’s temple was built and decorated by means of West European technology and with the help of craftsmen of Frisian descent.

More than 670 years later, Jesus reprimanded the degenerated Jewish monotheists and compared them with the descendants of another previously monotheistic society:

Matthew 11:20-22

(20) Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: (21) “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. (22) But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.

It is also interesting to note that nearby Sidon never quite achieved the fame and splendour of the Frisian-found Tyre.

In his book From Goddess to King, Anthony Radford makes the observation that it would have been unlikely for the Phoenicians to have become a sea faring nation of note without hard European oak and riverside building facilities. The quantity and quality of the Lebanon cedars would not have sufficed. It must be borne in mind that they not only acquired ships for themselves, but also sold large numbers to the Egyptians. The Oera Linda Book’s account of how they obtained these, and the skills, from the sea kings and ship builders from the Rhine, seems credible.

The founding of Marseille

As the Tyrian trade relationship with Frisia improved, they approached the folk mother with a seemingly harmless request – to sell to them some small islands four kilometres off the European coast in the North Western Mediterranean to serve, we surmise, as a halfway station on the long sea voyages from Phoenicia to Frisia. The Frisian Parliament debated the request, the folk mother granted permission and a harbour was built. Tunis now had bases in both the Eastern and Western Mediterranean, both of which were destined to become world famous cities.

The Tyrians, however, did not keep this new harbour all to themselves but also allowed their pagan Sidonese partners to use the facilities thereby strengthening the competition against the Frisian merchants. The disillusioned Frisians soon realised their error and called the decision of their political leaders, to grant the Tyrians and Sidonese permission to build a harbour, a dung sale – in ancient Fries, Misselia. The four small islands are known today as the Frioul archipelago and Misselia as the city of Marseille.

The motto of the city of Marseille, 4000 years later, still refers to this ancient name:

Actibus immensis urbs fulget Massiliensis – By her great deeds, the city of Massilia shines. We may assume that the ancient Frisian meaning was lost with time.

Writing some 1500 years later in the 5th century BC, the Greek historian, Thucydides, referred to Massalia as having been founded in 600 BC by Ionian Greeks from Phocaea, an ancient city on the west coast of Anatolia. Not only was he wrong about the founders of Marseilles, but his timing was also out by 1400 years. We shall come back to the Ionians a little later.

The Hyksos

We have to digress from Sea King Tunis and the Oera Linda Book for a while to create a greater understanding of later developments.

A very fascinating sequel to the deployment of Tunis’s merchant navy in the Mediterranean relates to the mysterious Hyksos rulers of Lower Egypt during the Second Intermediate Period. This period followed the Middle Kingdom in ancient Egypt. Hyksos is Heqa Khasewet in Egyptian and means Foreign Rulers or Sheppard-kings.

Whilst Egyptian chronology is sometimes quite blurred to the layman, the following table would seem to reflect a fairly accurate picture. The Fifteenth Dynasty of the Hyksos foreigners, who only ruled over Lower (or Northern) Egypt, ruled between the indigenous Twelfth and Eighteenth Dynasties.

Table 1: Hyksos in Egyptian Chronology

The Twelfth Dynasty towards the end of the Middle Kingdom ruled from 1991 to 1803 BC and is regarded by subsequent Egyptians as their most affluent indigenous dynasty. Senusret III (Sesostris III), who ruled from 1878 to 1860 BC, was the greatest of these pharaohs. His success is attributed to the expansion of trade outside Egypt’s borders, which appears to have commenced from ca. 1998 BC onwards. It is no coincidence that this happened within a short space of time after the Tyrian or ex-Frisian merchants appeared in the area.

When Tunis and Inca parted ways in Kadik in 2000 BC, Tunis mentioned that he intended to go and work for the Egyptians with whom he had dealings before:

Tunis wished to sail through the straits to the Middel Sea, and enter the service of the rich king of Egiptaland, as he had done before, but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people. ( OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXIV (2))

As we have seen with Misselia and the Frisians, the Tyrians may have approached the pharaoh of Egypt with an equally innocent request: A merchant navy needs a harbour and dry-docks or workshops for ship repairs. Their buyers, sellers and other administrative staff need offices. They need warehouses for imports and exports as well as accommodation for their crews and housing for their staff and their families. They need schools and community centres. No doubt, Hyksos International Trading Company (A “tongue-in-cheeck” company made up by the author) negotiated these arrangements with the Egyptian authorities to their mutual benefit. As the story unfolds it will become clear why the claim is made here that the Hyksos were of West European origins.

Apart from normal food and consumer commodities, luxury goods became popular and in a short while trade expanded to include products from the steel foundries and armament industries in Western Europe – swords, axes, composite bows, shields, helmets and, yes, chariots, horses and even ships. Before the Hyksos and Tyrians none of these were known in the Eastern Mediterranean theatre.

The folk mother advised that they should sell everything except silver weapons, but no attention was paid to what she said. As the Thyriar had thus free play, they came from far and near to take away our goods, to the loss of our seafaring people. ( OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXIV (14))

As time went by business expanded and so did the expatriate community. It is only logical that other Frisian entrepreneurs would have opened up shops, businesses and factories which in turn would have attracted more immigrants. By 1779 BC, some 219 years later, there were so many powerful foreigners in Northern Egypt that they took control of Memphis and fortified Avaris. There was no Hyksos invasion per sé, but rather the natural evolution from a trading post to an economic and political power hub. Millennia later, in 1652 AD, we observed exactly the same process when the Dutch established a halfway station at the Cape of Good Hope at the southern tip of Africa on their sea route to India. Three hundred years later, by 1948 AD, this halfway station had become the white ruled Republic of South Africa.

The Minoan-type artwork unearthed by archaeologists at Hyksos sites is further proof of a West European background as will be discussed later.

The Western Europeans did all their written communication on paper as is shown throughout this book. This and the fact that they spoke a foreign language are the main reasons why so little remained of them in the histories and folklore of their host nations. What little evidence remained is that which the Egyptians recorded on their tablets and from their viewpoints. Even the Frisian names and religion would have been Egyptianised.

In Chapter 2 we saw that the Frisians called God Wr-alda which meant Wr-the Elder. The Egyptians called their god Ra or Re which creates the suspicion that the Egyptian sun god was named after Wr-alda.

We do know that the Hyksos rule was very stable and prosperous. Egypt was modernised through new technologies and sciences such as medicine, mathematics and astronomy. They built irrigation canals like the West Europeans and introduced improved farming methods as well as cattle and horses. They introduced monotheism and did not erect votives or statues because, as we have seen, they abhorred these. In fact, Manetho ( Quoted by Josephus in his book “Against Apion”) reported that they destroyed the Egyptians’ pagan temples. It would appear that their administration and resultant prosperity were accepted but not necessarily supported by most indigenous Egyptians. The locals regarded them as foreigners and invaders, but as long as they were the ones who swayed the power, they remained in charge.

It would have been reasonable to assume that, apart from nationalism, the eventual eviction of the Hyksos in ca 1525 BC was partly driven by nationalism, envy and or greed. These, however, were not the reasons.

The Hyksos had a relatively peaceful sojourn in Lower Egypt for almost 500 years. The last 254 years they reigned from Memphis and Avaris and by all accounts they were accepted by the locals and the rulers of Upper Egypt. They brought trade, prosperity and stability to the region. The cause of their demise, when it came, was the result of the most astonishing sequence of events. What follows proves once again that fact is indeed stranger than fiction.

All along historians speculated that the Biblical Joseph, an Israelite and a foreigner, would not have been appointed to the second highest position in Egypt under an indigenous pharaoh. An outsider would not have been tolerated let alone respected. It was, and still is believed that such a situation would have been most unlikely. Some scholars proposed that his appointment must have been made when Egypt was under the rule of a foreign power – possibly the Hyksos. They are quite right.

Genesis 41:53-57 (NKJV)

(53) Then the seven years of plenty which were in the land of Egypt ended, (54) and the seven years of famine began to come, as Joseph had said. The famine was in all lands, but in all the land of Egypt there was bread. (55) So when all the land of Egypt was famished, the people cried to Pharaoh for bread. Then Pharaoh said to all the Egyptians, “Go to Joseph; whatever he says to you, do.” (56) The famine was over all the face of the earth, and Joseph opened all the storehouses and sold to the Egyptians. And the famine became severe in the land of Egypt. (57) So all countries came to Joseph in Egypt to buy grain, because the famine was severe in all lands.

From the above it is clear that the pharaoh placed a lot of trust in Joseph. He therefore had a free hand to do whatever he thought best.

By using the 2193 BC event as our base and the normal Bible timeline and genealogy, the viewpoint that Joseph was appointed under Hyksos rule is confirmed. It is remarkable how the Bible and the Oera Linda Book are mutually vindicated by this date – 2193 BC.

Table 2 shows that Jacob Israel and his 70 followers entered Egypt in 1551 BC, two years after the onset of a famine which the Bible described as worldwide.

Table 2: Biblical Chronology i.t.o. 2193 BC

Abram arrived in Canaan in ca. 1766 BC, some 234 years after the founding of Tyre and ±230 years after the commencement of Egypto-Tyrian trade relations.

In his book Against Apion (1.14), Flavius Josephus writing towards the end of the first century AD, quoted the Egyptian historian Manetho when he referred to the Hyksos. Manetho himself lived during the 3rd century BC – more than 1600 years after the Hyksos first set foot on Egyptian soil. We may assume that by then he could only quote from Egyptian sources. His writings had a pro-Egyptian propaganda slant and he referred to the invaders as men of ignoble birth. This term would indicate that the Hyksos were eventually a racially mixed group of Frisian, African, Phoenician and Egyptian descent. He also had to ascribe various atrocities to the foreigners to justify the Egyptian uprising against the oppressors. Nevertheless, it is interesting that Manetho recorded that the Hyksos took his country by force but without a battle:

(75) There was a king of ours whose name was Timaus. Under him it came to pass, I know not how, that God was averse to us, and there came, after a surprising manner, men of ignoble birth out of the eastern parts, and had boldness enough to make an expedition into our country, and with ease subdued it by force, yet without our hazarding a battle with them. (76) So when they had gotten those that governed us under their power, they afterwards burned down our cities, and demolished the temples of the gods, and used all the inhabitants after a most barbarous manner; nay, some they killed, and led their children and their wives into slavery. (77) At length they made one of themselves king, whose name was Salatis; he also lived at Memphis, and made both the upper and lower regions pay tribute, and left garrisons in places that were the most proper for them.

(82) This whole nation was styled Hycsos, that is, Shepherd-Kings.

Once we have accepted the previous table and especially the dates of the global disaster of 2193 BC and the entry of the Israelites into Egypt in 1551 BC, we can have a closer look at the administration of the Vice-Pharaoh Joseph.

Joseph, the ex-slave and convict, was appointed to the second highest position in Lower Egypt seven years before the onset of the famine. This would have been in 1560 BC when he was 30 years of age. His family joined him nine years later, in the second year of the famine when he was 39 years old – 22 years after his brothers sold him into slavery as a 17 year-old teenager.

The famine started two years before the Israelites came to Egypt, in other words 1553 BC. This date corresponds exactly with the demise of the Middle Minoan Civilization on Crete, which, archaeologists suggest, might have been caused by the eruption of the Thera volcano on Santorini. We therefore suggest that this eruption took place in 1553 BC and affected the climate around the Mediterranean to such an extent that it resulted in worldwide famine. The Oera Linda Book recorded a massive earthquake at the same time.

In terms of the Bible, the date 1553 BC is a straightforward calculation of Biblical chronology. In terms of the Oera Linda Book, it is derived from a back calculation from Alexander the Great’s campaign in India and specifically between 330 BC and 327 BC, 1224 years later. This will be explained in detail under the relevant section, but suffice to say at this stage that the dates match exactly.

Table 3: Joseph in Egypt & Exodus of Hyksos

During the seven good years Joseph collected all the grain he could lay his hands on. When the famine started, he sold it back to the Egyptians, probably at inflated prices. We read in the Bible that by the end of the famine the Egyptians had no livestock and no property they could call their own. In addition, they were taxed 20% on all their produce for the favour granted them by the pharaoh to farm on his lands. If our conventional Egyptian chronology is correct, this arrangement lasted for only 21 years after the famine when the Egyptians revolted and kicked the Hyksos out of Egypt. The Egyptian Leader, Ahmose I, may have been killed himself during the siege of Avaris.

Joseph, who died at age 110, would have been 65 and most likely in retirement at the time of the revolt. The Bible records that the new pharaoh did not know Joseph. The Hyksos-Egyptian relationship, which lasted almost 500 years, came to an end when the Egyptians effectively became slaves in their own country – courtesy of Joseph and only 35 years after he had taken control of the Egyptian economy. Sensational as it may be, Joseph caused the downfall of his benefactors, the Hyksos Dynasty.

We shall come back to the Hyksos later to see what became of them after they left Egypt. Let us now return to ca. 2000 BC and Sea King Tunis.

The Gauls and Druids

The loss of the Frisians’ market share in international trade, which was caused by the enterprising Nef Tunis after 2000 BC, was just the beginning of their woes.

Tunis’ Sidonese partners were not only interested in trade. As with certain twenty first century AD elements in the Middle East, their long-term goals were more ideological and global. It was then 200 years since the 2193 BC event and the Frisians still had not re-established their former dominance over Iberia and Southern France despite the presence of a Burghmaid in Kadik. They did sell the Frioul archipelago to the Tyrians, but did not have the means to protect the remainder of their southern lands. The Sidonese pagan missionaries, or golar as they were called, soon realised this. They also realised that there was quite a fertile missionary field and a healthy demand for female companionship in the almost all-male penal colony of Britannia. From their bases in Sidon and Misselia they actively spread their permissive and bloody pagan religion throughout the region. The need for the fairer sex in Britannia was met by abducting females from all around the Mediterranean. The Frisians nicknamed the Golar priests truiwenden (truth avoiders) or trowydars, as it was incorrectly translated into English.

The pagan religions from the East now had the Fryan Federation in a pincher with the Magy and his Magyarar priests in the north and north-east and the trowydar priests with their golar missionaries in the south and west. The golar later become known as the Gauls and the name truiwenden evolved into Druids – the mysterious leaders in ancient Gaul that held sway over the people in Gallic religion.

It is amazing to note how little tactics have changed over a 4000 year period. As we still see today, the Magyarar and the Golar realised back then that the permanent subduing of a people was not by force of arms, but rather by undermining their moral fibre. Where there are drugs involved, it also means the opening of new markets.

The Golan Heights, bordered by present-day Israel, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, sounds suspiciously as though it may have been the origin of the ancient Golar priests (the Golars from Golan?) in nearby Sydon. Golan means captive in Hebrew.

The refuge town Golan is mentioned in the Bible in Deuteronomy 4:41-43 (RSV). If this supposition is correct, it would mean that the ancient Gauls had ties with the Golan Heights, which was annexed by Israel in 1981.

This is how the Oera Linda Book described the sequel to Misselia:

3. The Golar, as the missionary priests of Sydon were called, had observed that the land there (Southern France) was thinly peopled, and was far from the folk-mother. In order to make a favourable impression, they had themselves called in our language "Truth Followers"; but they had better have been called "Truth Shunners", or, in short, Trowydar, as our navigators afterwards called them.

4. When they were well established, their merchants exchanged their beautiful copper weapons and all sorts of jewels for our silver weapons and hides of wild beasts, which were abundant in our southern countries; but the Golar celebrated all sorts of vile and monstrous festivals, which the inhabitants of the coast promoted with their wanton women and sweet poisonous wine.

5. If any of our people had so conducted himself that his life was in danger, the Golar afforded him a refuge, and sent him to Phonisia, that is, Palmland. When he was settled there, they made him write to his family, friends, and connections that the country was so good and the people so happy that no one could form any idea of it.

6. In Britannia there were plenty of men, but few women. When the Golar knew this, they carried off girls everywhere and gave them to the Britne for nothing. So all these girls served their purpose to steal children from Wr-alda in order to give them to false gods. ( OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXV (3-6))

It would take another 300 years for the Golar to fully realise their objectives.

King Neptune

Nef Tunis, the marine who became a general before he was 25, a fugitive from the law and an outcast by the age of 37, became a business tycoon in the best 21st century AD tradition. Some four thousand years ago he effectively controlled all European and Mediterranean trade. He founded Tyre and Marseille and the Oera Linda Book has it that the country of Tunisia was named after him. It is also most likely that he was the founder, or at least influential in the founding, of the later Hyksos dynasty in Egypt. After his death he was deified by his Magyarar crews and the Golar priests. He eventually became known as Neptune, the mythological god of the sea. In life, King Neptune was quite a remarkable man.

Legends have it that Phoenicians settled on the coast of Tunisia ca the 10th century BC and that the Tyrians founded Carthage in the 9th century BC. The legends could be out by about a thousand years, but the other facts confirm what the Oera Linda Book states.

In book XIII of his Odyssey, Homer referred to Neptune and the Phaeacians and penned down these most revealing words:

But Neptune did not forget the threats with which he had already threatened Ulysses, so he took counsel with Jove. “Father Jove”, said he, "I shall no longer be held in any sort of respect among you gods, if mortals like the Phaeacians, who are my own flesh and blood, show such small regard for me.

(Homer: Odyssey, Book XIII, p.3)

It is remarkable that, if this account of Neptune’s deification by the Phoenicians is true, it would mean that the Greeks took their mythological God of the Sea from the Middle East.

The Federation Split

The Oera Linda Book tells us that in 1630 BC, some 370 years after Tunis founded Tyre, a Burghmaid by the name of Minerva held office in the burgh of Walhallagara. During her term an event took place which seems quite obscure in the narrative. We read of wild seas and that many a good ship was totally lost. In addition, many of the Frisians’ cattle died. The author, unlike the normal Frisian realism found throughout the book, ascribed the events to the witchcraft of another Burghmaid, Syrhed.

8. When she had had enough of this she threw herself into the hands of the Golar; but all her malpractices did not improve her position. When she saw that the navigators kept more and more aloof from her, she tried to win them back by fear. At the full moon, when the sea was stormy, she ran over the wild waves, calling to the navigators that they would all be lost if they did not worship her. Then she blinded their eyes, so that they mistook land for water and water for land, and in this way many a good ship was totally lost.

12…as well as all our cattle that died lately. ( OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXVI (8,12))

One tends to gloss over this little piece of superstition or folklore until it is realised that another major event took place around the same time. Scientists found evidence of a climatic event around 1628 BC in the growth depression of European oaks in Ireland and Sweden. The same observation was made about North America in the period 1629 to 1628 BC. In addition, radiocarbon dating done on vegetative matter found in the lava on the Santorini Islands in the Aegean Sea indicated that the Thera volcano erupted violently between 1627 and 1613 BC with a 95% probability of accuracy.

We shall come back to Thera later. Mention is made of the eruption only to serve as a method of dating the events that followed.

In approximately 1627 BC a fight broke out between elements of the Frisian army on the one side, and the marines and navy on the other. The incident happened near present-day Middelburg in the Schelde Estuary in Holland. The burgh of Walhallagara was on one of the seven islands in the estuary, while Flyburch was on the other side of the Schelde.

One of the main industries and sources of income in Flyburch was the manufacturing of paper from flax for the export market. Some entrepreneur in Walhallagara devised a method that replaced the flax from Flyburch with pumpkin leafs to make paper. This invention not only put the citizens of Flyburch out of business, but was the first of a series of actions that would dramatically alter the course of Frisian and world history – triggered by a humble pumpkin leaf.

We gather that the Frisian economy was already in recession for some time and, to make matters worse, some disease decimated their livestock. At a military celebration Burghmaid Syrhed of Flyburch incited her intoxicated citizen force soldiers by blaming their misfortunes on her colleague, Minerva, the Burghmaid of Walhallagara. Syrhed claimed that Minerva was behind the collapse of their paper industry and the killing of their cattle. In a drunken stupor the soldiers attacked Minerva’s burgh. The marines, under the command of Sea King Jon, retaliated. They saved Minerva, set fire to Flyburch, and in the ensuing fight a few thousand soldiers and marines perished.

The Folk Mother, Rosamund, declared a state of emergency, called up the citizen force, or Home Guard, from the surrounding towns, and quelled the uprising. Syrhed fled to Misselia and the soldiers were promptly dispatched to the penal colony in Britannia. The sailors, however, did not wait to be arrested and, together with Minerva and the maids from both burghs, they took refuge on the ships. They sailed away, ignoring a summons by their supreme commander or Secretary of Defence, Helprik. En-route they brought some wives and children on board, and departed with about 127 ships fully laden with merchandise that was already loaded for a trade mission before the fight. As with Tunis some 373 years before, Jon and Minerva were now outcasts.

The sailors nicknamed Minerva Nyhellenia which was a term of endearment and meant New Clarity. They called Syrhed Kalta which had a derogatory connotation because she always spoke in riddles or cultic terms. From here on we shall call them by their nicknames for reasons that will become clearer.

We shall leave Jon and Nyhellenia for the moment and turn our attention to Kalta.

The Celts

According to the Oera Linda Book, Syrhed, or Kalta, was an enchanting beauty. She was also very ambitious and with very few scruples. To increase her power over people, she first went to the Magyarar priests on the eastern border of the federation where she apparently dabbled in the occult and learned some black magic. She then went to the Golar priests in the south to learn a few tricks from them. The book alleges that Kalta drugged the soldiers’ beer before the Skelda fight. Again, drugs caused another major setback to the Fryan Federation.

After the Skelda debacle, Kalta found herself an exile in Misselia whilst her loyal ex-Frisian soldiers languished as convicts in Britannia. Thanks to the Golar’s missionary work during the previous few centuries, however, the exiled tin miners in the Westland, or Wales, now included a fair number of females and the population thrived.

With the backing of the Golar in modern day Iberia and southern France, Kalta declared UDI. (Unilateral Declaration of Independence) and also annexed Britannia. She went even further and had herself declared Folk Mother of the new state. She built a citadel by the name of Kaltasburch which later became Keranak - The Corner. This may well have been the modern day coastal town of Carnac in south western France. Soon her domain extended right up to the Seine.

The Fryan Federation thus shrank further with the Golar backed Kalta now on their southern border and the aggressive Magyarar having taken possession of Finland and Sweden in the north.

In time the citizens of Kalta’s state became known as the Kaltanar and eventually the Celts, a derivative of Cults – established ca 1627 BC.

In Chapter XXVI of The Book of Adela’s Followers, we read the following:

On the other side of the Skelda, at Flyburch, Syrhed presided. This femme was full of tricks. Her face was beautiful, and her tongue was nimble; but the advice that she gave was always conveyed in mysterious terms. Therefore the navigators called her Kalta, and the land-dwellers thought it was a title.

In order to give an impression of her great watchfulness, she had a c*** put on her banner.

Here we have an explanation for the cockerel we find in ancient Celtic and Gaulish legends and myths. The rooster is still the unofficial emblem of France, 3600 years later. Julius Caesar encountered the Gaulish c*** banners, the French revolutionaries used it as a motif in the 1700s and in World War II the French Resistance used it as their symbol.

It is noteworthy that the Gauls established themselves on the continent and in Britain some 350 to 370 years before the Celts. Neither group came into being as a result of an invasion or migration, but evolved from the same socio-political and religious dispensation induced by foreigners from the Middle East and, of course, the political aspirations of Kalta. The Celtic language group still consists of continental Gaulish and its variants, Irish, Welsh, Cornish and Gaelic as spoken in the British Isles.

The founding of Athens

Since the Golar went into partnership with Tunis some 373 years before, they extended their influence over most of the Mediterranean. It would appear as if even the prosperous, but small city-state of Tyre was now fully assimilated into their society if not their political dispensation. A significant number of the Tyrians, however, were still of Frisian descent and proud of it.

The Golar sided with the more liberal Kalta and the renegade fleet of Jon and Nyhellenia was not welcome anywhere. Even in Italy which the Frisians called Heinde Krekaland (near Greek Land) and which was part of the mighty pre-2193 BC Fryan Federation some 600 years before, word from the Golar had preceded them.

The fleet sailed to Tyre in the hope of finding refuge there. One may assume that they sent a scouting party ahead, because when they arrived at Tyre, they did not drop anchor but continued their voyage. Nyhellenia considered the Frisian religion in Tyre to have degenerated to the level of the pagan priests and she would not settle there.

As they sailed past, a small but significant incident occurred which may shed light on some of the questions we still ask today, some 3600 years later. The opportunistic Tyrians hijacked one of the ships towards the rear of the fleet. The Frisians, heavily laden with merchandise and families, could not retaliate but the hot-headed Jon made a mental note for future reference.

After what must have been quite a few months of sailing through the Mediterranean, the fugitives from Frisia finally arrived in Attica in Verre Krekaland (Far Greek Land), or Greece. The surrounding countryside was barren and Jon was not impressed at all. Nyhellenia Minerva, however, thought that the desolation was exactly what they needed for a new beginning. At least the Golar would not be interested in such a godforsaken place. They found a natural harbour and dropped anchor. For Nyhellenia this was the end of their journey.

Jon decided that his fortunes, however, laid elsewhere. An impromptu referendum was held and some of the young adventurers and the remaining maids of Kalta decided to join Jon, but the majority elected to stay with Nyhellenia. Jon sailed away and Nyhellenia, with the consent and assistance of the local tribal chiefs, and her share of the cargo, stayed to build a stone fortress.

Thus, in ca 1627 BC, the same year that the Celts came into being, the City of Friends, Athenia, was founded. Burghmaid Nyhellenia Minerva, who chose the name, had a citadel again.

10. When Minerva had examined the country which is called by the inhabitants Attika, she saw that the people were all goatherds, and that they lived on meat, wild roots, herbs, and honey. They were clothed in skins, and had their dwellings on the slopes of the hills, wherefore they were called Hellinggar.

11. At first they ran away, but when they found that we did not attack them, they came back and showed great friendship. Minerva asked if we might settle there peaceably. This was agreed to on the condition that we should help them to fight against their neighbours, who came continually to carry away their children and to rob their dwellings.

12. Then we built a burgh at an hour's distance from the harbour. By the advice of Minerva it was called Athenia, because, she said:

13. ‘Those who came after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends’.

(OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXVIII (10-13))

The nickname Hellinggar, which the Frisians gave to these primitive residents of the slopes or hellings (The word still exist in Afrikaans and still has the same meaning.) stuck and today, 3600 years later, we still refer to them as the Hellenists or Hellenes. It is quite likely that they were still recovering from the Thera eruption a year or two before.

It is also interesting to note that this area, 3636 years ago and 566 years after the 2193 BC event, was inhabited by a Neolithic-type people under the control of pagan priests – exactly as was the case with the Magyarar and Finnar in Scandinavia.

It is necessary for us to pause here for a moment to look at the impressive ex-Frisian fleet that now lay off the coast of Attica and the two main characters, Jon and Minerva. As mentioned earlier, the fleet consisted of 127 ships fully laden with merchandise for a trade mission. These refugees, therefore, were not poor. They had ample commodities for barter and to win over the locals. Secondly, these were not the quaint little boats we find among the Vikings some 2000 years later. They were heavy, long-distance, sea-going freighters that could accommodate upwards of 100 crew and passengers. If one works at only 40 persons per ship, the sailors, rowers, marines and some families could have numbered in excess of 5 000 souls. They had safety in numbers and the best ocean-going vessels and iron-age weaponry of the time.

Jon, the young sea king or marine-general, did not pay too much attention to discipline and protocol. Firstly he jumped at the chance to sort out his landlubber comrades without seemingly paying any attention to the consequences. When he then received a direct order from his commander to return to land and hand himself over, he refused to obey. He sailed off into the sunset with the entire Frisian Fleet and a few thousand marines and sailors. The cargo alone, in today’s terms, must have been worth quite a few million dollars.

Minerva Nyhellenia, on the other hand, seemed to have been the unfortunate victim of circumstances. She was saved by the marines but could not return. The folk mother and parliament would have made an example of anyone remotely involved in the uprising. She had been second in line to become head of state or Folk Mother. She had already been a governor, or Burghmaid, of one of the most prestigious citadels, Walhallagara, for some time. Despite her piousness and all the love and respect she commanded, she should not have sided with one of the offending parties. Whereas Kalta had a rooster on her banner, Minerva chose a sheep dog and an owl for her emblems:

The dog, she said, guards his master and his flock, and the owl watches that the mice shall not devastate the fields;

(OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXVI (7))

Later, in Athenia, Minerva gave the following reply to the pagan priests when they asked her about these symbols:

5. She was once asked, ‘If you are not a witch, what is the use of the eggs that you always carry with you?"

6. Minerva answered, "These eggs are the symbols of Frya's counsels, in which our future and that of the whole human race lies concealed. Time will hatch them, and we must watch that no harm happens to them."

7. The priests said, "Well answered; but what is the use of the dog on your right hand?"

8. Hellenia replied, "Does not the shepherd have a sheep-dog to keep his flock together? What the dog is to the shepherd I am in Frya's service. I must watch over Frya's flocks."

9. The priests said, "We understand that very well; but tell us what means the owl that always sits upon your head, is that light-shunning animal a sign of your clear vision?"

10. Hellenia answered, "No; he reminds me that there are people on Irtha who, like him, have their homes in temples and holes, who go about in the twilight, not, like him, to deliver us from mice and other plagues, but to invent tricks to steal away the knowledge of other people, in order to take advantage of them, to make slaves of them, and to suck their blood in imitation of vampires."

(OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XIV (5-10))

These emblems, the dog, the owl and the basket of eggs or fruit appear on numerous artefacts from antiquity.

Linen and Paper

The reader’s attention must be drawn to the casual references to flax and paper in the Oera Linda Book. Both these inventions are at least as important as markers in the development of a civilization as iron-based tools and weaponry.

The flax from which linen is derived was not only essential for the production of garments and for writing on, but was also used for sails by means of which ships could reach distant lands. In this way commerce and the spread of civilization were made possible. Paper, on the other hand, was a more economical means of recording transactions and for the dissemination of knowledge than parchment (animal skin) and flax-based stationery.

In Chapter 2, we saw that Homer recorded that the Phaeacians wore linen garments 3200 years ago. In ca 530 BC Apollonia described how her mother spun and wove her own short kilt of linen and her tunic of wool. We are told, once again, that the sought-after Irish linen was brought to Ireland and Europe by the Phoenicians - the same claim as is being made for Welsh tin mining. By now, however, we know where the Phoenicians’ claim to fame came from.

Today, flax is grown all over the world, but Western Europe still produces some of the best quality, notably the niche producers in Ireland, Italy, Belgium and the Netherlands; a tradition that goes back thousands of years.

It is commonly believed that papermaking is one of the four great inventions of ancient China. Paper was supposedly developed in the early 2nd century AD by the Han court eunuch, Cai Lun. The Oera Linda Book, however, recorded a civil war that broke out as a result of flax having been replaced by pumpkin leaf-based paper more than 1800 years earlier in the Schelde estuary in the Netherlands.

To be continued...

[Alewyn]

No, it's a misinterpretation of what you said, that's all. It's not "absurd", you're being unnecessarily abrasive. And yes, I'm telling you off.

I aplologise. I got carried away.

[Abramelin]

I'm not really getting your view.

Do you think it's recently written and is b/s or do you think it is a local story that is true and we have it wrong because we have misinterpreted the names?

See, you convince me this is local, OK - and to me then, if it is, it doesn't need to be faked and why would it be then if they did not go to Egypt etc?

If the story is localised, nothing in it should really be fake and if it is, for what reason would that be?

Also, I would beg to differ on a Celtic connection although they may have broken off quite early...

The Frisian origins are obscure. Archeologically, Frisians share a local development with other people like the Belgae in northwest continental regions, dating to the Elp culture (1800-800 BC). The Elp culture shows local continuity, starting with the emergence of the neolithic Corded Ware culture (2900 BC onwards until 2450) and running through Bell-Beaker cultures (27002100), Bronze Age Barbed Wire Beakers (2100-1800 BC). The Elp Culture itself began with a Hügelgräber phase, showing a close relationship to other Northern European Hügelgräber groups (sharing low-quality pottery called "Kümmerkeramik"). This phase transitioned smoothly and locally to Urnfields (1200-800 BC). Apparently, the local tradition was only broken around 800 BC, by the Iron Age Hallstatt culture and later by La Tene, which originated south and south east of Central Europe. It was thought that this change was caused by immigration, but it is now attributed to a local development stimulated by external influences.[3] The Hallstatt elites may have had little social influence in Frisia, because there is no evidence of royal burials there.

Social stability and international contacts became disturbed by power shifts towards the southern Hallstatt regions in the C-period. This caused a decay in the superstratum elite in the D-period that thus never achieved the same privileged and dominant position like in SW Germany and Eastern France. The same process of quick decay was observed at the subsequent intruding La Tene elite. Archeologically, this Iron Age period continued without breaks towards Roman times, showing that continental Germanic cultures participated in an otherwise Celtic European culture. Thus it is not clear whether most Northern European Iron Age findings are from Celtic or Germanic tribes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisian

Yes, I know now you understoood me wrong, and no doubt that is because of the way I try to explain things in english, lol. Cormac once said something like that.

With local I meant that they used local topography, local names, local place names, local events, and so on to create the story. And all that they mixed with their extended knowledge of ancient Greek and Latin language and stories.

I did not mean that it was a local story, a real local story, like some legend or myth.

What I do find interesting is that you somehow ignore those sources I found.

You post a lot of things that you think are connected with the OLB, but I am busy finding the true sources the OLB is based on.

I also remember that it was you who said that that Middelsea was located in the west, and you just accepted Alewyn´s explanation that it ´must have been a translation error´.

It was not.

They talk about the Oostsea ( Baltic) in the east, and the Middelsea in the west. That´s not south, like the Mediterranean would be if it indeed was the Mediterranean.

Jensma talks about inconsistencies and errors in the OLB, as though they forgot to edit things out that might give us a clue about the truth, heh.

Or maybe they left these clues on purpose...

Edited July 14, 2010 by Abramelin

[TheSearcher]

I aplologise. I got carried away.

No problem, apology accepted. We all get carried away sometimes, so lets speak no more of it.

[TheSearcher]

I found this info when looking for some sort of impact c. 2200BC

There have been excavations on the Lisan peninsula, which nearly cuts the southern part of the Dead Sea off from the rest of it. It is also different from the main Dead Sea in that it's mean depth is very different from the rest of the Dead Sea, only 10 m in average. It seems that there was a great catastrophe around 2200 BC that has destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The surface of the Dead Sea dropped suddenly by 100m around 2200 BC (Frumkin et al., The Holocene 1.3, 1991). If we take the story in Genesis for what it seems to indicate, the whole southern part of the Dead Sea may be an impact crater that was caused by a cosmic disaster, one piece in the 2200 BC disaster.

http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/tilmari/tilmari2.htm

Again, there seems to be a co-inciding meteorite/comet impact and flood/climate change at this same time (more than 2800BC imo).

I don't know if it's the Burckle or which one but I do think an impact event and a climate change happened same time c. 2200BC.

So, I was looking more into it and may the Dead Sea holds some clues. It occurred to me that if indeed the Lord struck Sodom and Gomorrah that Abraham's Lord or even Abraham might have known about this forecoming event.

Then it occurred to me that Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees and thought, well, since he can change staffs into snakes and make water and such, he could even be a Magi himself. If Abraham did fight 4 Kings in the battle in the Valley of Siddim he must have held some sort of rank or importance, maybe a priest king of a sort, since his family lines seemed to go to be Kings later on and even Joseph is pretty high to the King.

So, it seemed to me that the portents that Abraham gave might have been in realtion to astrology events he knew about and if he was a Magi.

The lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah.

I found this info:

However, what if the craters resulted from comet fragment impacts? Is there any evidence to support this alternative? This possibility is investigated using the following well-known illustrations:

1) Comet Hale-Bopp

2) Comet Shoemaker-Levy

3) The Meteor Crater in Arizona

4) 3D Comet Impact Simulation

5) Satellite Image of Israel

6) Wabar Craters in Saudi Arabia

7) Map of Holy Land (500 A.D.)

8) Genesis 19:13-30 (NKJV)

As will be shown, these eight elements provide some supporting evidence for comet-fragment impacts.

TOP OF PAGE

SUMMARY

The recent passage of the large comet Hale-Bopp indicates that it was also here about 4000 years ago (2000 B.C.). The comet's orbit is unusual in that it is perpendicular to the plane of the earth (ecliptic) and crosses the path of both Jupiter and the earth. If the timing of its orbit (2000 B.C.) caused it to pass very close to Jupiter, followed 15 months later by a close earth passage, then fragments torn from this comet by Jupiter could have impacted the earth.

Further, if the timing of the earth's rotation placed Israel as a target for these fragments, then this would explain the origin of the Three Craters in Israel. These 2000 B.C. fragment impacts are coincidental with the Biblical Sodom / Gomorrah catastrophe, (dated 2066 B.C.). This scenario might also account for a sudden evaporation of water from the lower Dead Sea region. A calculated one billion tons of fragments from Hale-Bopp, (impacting at 110,000 miles per hour), has the potential for vaporizing about 120 cubic miles of water, reducing the remaining water to a brine solution. The calculated impact energy is equivalent to about 30 times all the nuclear bombs in the world, (an assumed 10,000 megatons for all bombs). At the same time, the impacts may have caused a large landfill area between the Dead Sea and Elat, closing off the Red Sea from the Dead Sea.

http://gsanctuary.com/3craters.html

So, it seems that around 2000BC a close encounter with Hale-Bopp comet may have resulted in large fragments coming off and hitting the area around the Dead Sea, the Jordan Plain, where Sodom and Gomorrah is.

Here is some more on that:

As was noted in the Summary, Hale Bopp's 2071 B.C. earth passage is close (within five years) to the time of the Biblical Sodom and Gomorrah catastrophe dated 2066 B.C

This pic from that site shows the Big and Little Craters right near the south end of the Dead Sea, right near where Sodom is.

Some other pictures there too.

Food for thought if they are from a comet.

Puzzler, the impacts you are talking about are theory only, not proven in any way, if I'm not mistaken. The age of the Bruckler is still in discussion as well. As I've mentioned before the Bond events are proven facts and are more chronologically happening in the correct times.

The 4.2 kiloyear event, was most likely caused by a Bond Event, which is a climate fluctuation occurring every ≈1,470 ± 500 years throughout the Holocene.

Here is a list of the bond events as far as they can be traceable.

* ≈1,400 BP (Bond event 1) — roughly correlates with the Migration Period pessimum (450–900 AD)

* ≈2,800 BP (Bond event 2) — roughly correlates with the Iron Age Cold Epoch (900–300 BC)

* ≈4,200 BP (Bond event 3) — correlates with the 4.2 kiloyear event (correlates with the collapse of the Akkadian Empire and the end of the Egyptian Old Kingdom)

* ≈5,900 BP (Bond event 4) — correlates with the 5.9 kiloyear event (correlates with the end of the Pre Pottery Neolithic B, and the arrival of nomadic pastoralists in the Middle East)

* ≈8,100 BP (Bond event 5) — correlates with the 8.2 kiloyear event

* ≈9,400 BP (Bond event 6) — correlates with the Erdalen event of glacier activity in Norway, as well as with a cold event in China.

* ≈10,300 BP (Bond event 7) — unnamed event (correlates with the beginnings of grain agriculture in the Middle East)

* ≈11,100 BP (Bond event 8) — coincides with the transition from the Younger Dryas to the boreal

What you think?

[The Puzzler]

Al I can say, Puz, is "wildly speculative to the point of unbelievability."

If there was actual geological evidence of such a recent impact event, I'd grant the hypothesis. But here isn't. No impact feature (crater), despite the pic you posted which purports to show "big crater" and "little crater" (which are actually wind-sculpted escarpments) and, most tellingly, no evidence in the rock to indictae an impact (no 'shocked' quartz or other crystalline substances.)

If you wish to invest a little in your research, I'd suggest purchasing and reading this paper, which details the particular geology of the area, and how it was subject to liquefaction during strong seismic events (earthquakes, not impacts.)

The whole region is very seismically active and this, rather than looking for some catastrophe from the heavens, is the likely basis for many of the disasters told in ancient literature of the region.

I hear ya.

OK, I'll forget that for now, how about the Kofels impact of 3123BC?

It sounds like it could be related to it all...

Since it is in the area that is mentioned in the OLB and could have been remembered, but of course the date is before 2193BC. That is, if the Kofels date is correct. Again it's based on stars, from a 700BC inscribed Assyrian tablet.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/31/kofels_asteroid/

As for it being the reference of Phaethon it could be..

Smyth (L.C.L.) comments on Aeschylus' Heliades : Phaëthon was hurled into the Eridanus, which Aeschylus, according to Pliny, Nat. Hist. 37. 31, placed in Iberia and identified with the Rhone, a river confused with the Po, on the banks of which was the city of Adria.

Either way, the Po would be feasible if it looked like it landed east of where they were.

On CyberSky, a time in 2193 seems to have a large alignment of planets and also the timeframe we find the double eclipse of Shulgi.

So again, I would suspect the date of 3123BC could be compromised...

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Puzzler, the impacts you are talking about are theory only, not proven in any way, if I'm not mistaken. The age of the Bruckler is still in discussion as well. As I've mentioned before the Bond events are proven facts and are more chronologically happening in the correct times.

The 4.2 kiloyear event, was most likely caused by a Bond Event, which is a climate fluctuation occurring every ≈1,470 ± 500 years throughout the Holocene.

Here is a list of the bond events as far as they can be traceable.

* ≈1,400 BP (Bond event 1) — roughly correlates with the Migration Period pessimum (450–900 AD)

* ≈2,800 BP (Bond event 2) — roughly correlates with the Iron Age Cold Epoch (900–300 BC)

* ≈4,200 BP (Bond event 3) — correlates with the 4.2 kiloyear event (correlates with the collapse of the Akkadian Empire and the end of the Egyptian Old Kingdom)

* ≈5,900 BP (Bond event 4) — correlates with the 5.9 kiloyear event (correlates with the end of the Pre Pottery Neolithic B, and the arrival of nomadic pastoralists in the Middle East)

* ≈8,100 BP (Bond event 5) — correlates with the 8.2 kiloyear event

* ≈9,400 BP (Bond event 6) — correlates with the Erdalen event of glacier activity in Norway, as well as with a cold event in China.

* ≈10,300 BP (Bond event 7) — unnamed event (correlates with the beginnings of grain agriculture in the Middle East)

* ≈11,100 BP (Bond event 8) — coincides with the transition from the Younger Dryas to the boreal

What you think?

Yes, I think it's very likely.

I was talking about the 4.2 kiloyear and Bond effect some posts back.

What it (the Bond effect) leads to is this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dansgaard-Oeschger_event

In the Northern Hemisphere, they take the form of rapid warming episodes, typically in a matter of decades, each followed by gradual cooling over a longer period.

This is typical of what would create the landslides and loss of land through warming, higher seas from melting ice as it warmed up.

The Nordic Bronze Age is the cultures I believe lived in the warmer time.

There needs to be no impact at all really, although I am chasing now, the Kofels in Europe as it could be the Phaethon one plus it is in the area, date is older but maybe the date, like the Burckle, is really not proven.

PS: The Phaethon myth itself might not include an earthly impact but the firey heat of the Sun and the way it would have changed its regularity burning up the earth as such, when it was so hot, the weather I mean, it can be seen as being a firey heat that was out of control that creashed to earth, the heat hit here, in fireballs that were really just heat bursts of forests, in Australia here, we have gum trees, extremely combustible, not sure, but arent pines, like in germany, full of oil too.?

Anyway, Im open to suggestion, just following all possibilities.

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Puzzler

[Alewyn]

To whom it may concern.

In Chapter 1 of my book I argued that the date of 2193 BC in the Oera Linda Book has substance and that the event or disaster was most likely caused by an asteroid impact. Apart from all the civilizations that came to an end around 2200BC, I gave quotes from both the Oera Linda Book and the Book of Enoch viz:

1. OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXI

Before the bad time came our land was the most beautiful in the World. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost.

2. The Book of Enoch

Chapter 55

(4) And when that agitation took place; the saints out of heaven perceived it; the pillar of the earth shook from its foundation; and the sound was heard from the extremities of the earth unto the extremities of heaven at the same time.

Chapter 64

(1) In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached.(2) Then he lifted up his feet, and went to the ends of the earth, to the dwelling of his great-grandfather Enoch. (3) And Noah cried with a bitter voice, Hear me; hear me; hear me: three times. And he said, Tell me what is transacting upon the earth; for the earth labours, and is violently shaken. Surely I shall perish with it. (4) After this there was a great perturbation on earth, and a voice was heard from heaven. I fell down on my face, when my great-grandfather Enoch came and stood by me.

Surely, the above describe a cosmic impact that disturbed Earth’s axis? If not, how do we explain them? If it can only be interpreted as a an impact, why do we ignore these utterances? Surely these must be key to our debate?

In Chapter 3 of my book the date of 2193 BC is used in conjunction with Biblical chronology and, to my mind, Noah’s flood checks out exactly with this date.

There we have two (three, if the Oera Linda Book is true) references to support both the date and the cosmic impact theory.

I speculated whether the Burckle “impact” may have been the cause and I based my argument on the fact that this was the closest identifiable event to 2193 BC. From evidence from all over, it may well be that the Earth moved through an asteroid belt or cloud. Whether the Burckle impact or some other impact was the cause is perhaps of secondary importance but if we reject the impact theory outright , I am afraid we are not going anywhere.

Herewith a schematic of what the impact could have done. The "Old" North Pole was not necesarily where I placed it. It could have been more to the south of Alaska which would then still have aligned with the N-S axes of the pyramids in Egypt. (Figure 3 in my Book which I previously ommitted.)

[The Puzzler]

This is not debating anything in particular but just some stuff I wanted to add that might lead to some more clues about it all.

So great a marvel ancient [an eclipse] eternal Khronos (Time) our foster-father has never brought, since Phaethon, struck by the steam of fire divine, fell tumbling half-burnt from Helioss lightbearing chariot.

http://www.theoi.com/Titan/Phaethon.html

An eclipse heralds in Phaethon. As Nyx chased Hemera from the sky during the day.

From same as above:

At these words, Dionysos rejoiced in hope of victory; then he questioned Hermes and wished to hear more of the Olympian tale which the Celts of the west know well: how Phaethon tumbled over and over through the air, and why even the Heliades (Daughters of Helios) were changed into trees beside the moaning Eridanos, and from their leafy trees drop sparkling tears into the stream [the source of amber].

In answer, friendly Hermes opened his mouth and noised out his inspired tale to Bakkhos eagerly listening : `Dionysos, joy of mankind, shepherd of human life! If sweet desire constrains you to hear these ancient stories, I will tell you the whole tale of Phaethon from beginning to end:--

That the Celts had recorded. Now I know the Frisians are not Celts but point is, the area of the Celts in the West was known to know the myth the best, giving it, imo, a Baltic origin, their is always the poplars and amber tears, whichever version it is, very Baltic.

Another thing here, is Hermes is telling Dionysus, who does not know it, the story. Dionysus is a very young God into Greece so he has missed this info since the older people of Greece only know it, it is a most ancient story.

This is the version by Nonnus with other mentions and well worth a read... http://www.theoi.com/Titan/Phaethon.html

It holds many clues:

so we have an eclipse of a grand scale, the Celts know the story, it is a very ancient one.

Eos (Dawn) trembled, and star Phosphoros cried out. `Where are you hurrying, dear boy? Why have you gone mad with reins in your hand? Spare you headstrong lash! Beware of these two companies--both Planeta and the company of fixed stars, lest bold Orion kill you with his knife, lest ancient Bootes hit you with fiery cudgel. Spare this wild driving, and let not the Olympian Ketos [Cetus the Sea-Monster] entomb you in his belly in high heaven; let not Leon (Leo the lion) tear you to pieces, or the Olympian Tauros arch his neck and strike you with fiery horn! Respect Tosdeutera [saggitarius the Archer], or he may kill you with a firebarbed arrow from his drawn bowstring. Let there not be a second chaos, and the stars of heaven appear at the rising day, or erratic Eos (Dawn) meet Selene at noonday in her car!

As he spoke, Phaethon drove harder still, drawing his car aside to Notos (the South), to Boreas (the North), close to Zephyros (the West), near to Euros (the East). There was tumult in the sky shaking the joints of the immovable universe: the very axle bent which runs through the middle of the revolving heavens [and holds the constellations in their place]. Libyan Atlas could hardly support the self-rolling firmament of stars, as he rested on his knees with bowed back under this greater burden . . . [and all the constellations and stars were thrown from their paths in complete disarray.]

Great story this one, as it tells the whole hourney as Phaethon flies around the zodiac (like a sun)..

Note the bolded part - Let there not be a second chaos...hmm, a second chaos, what was the first I wonder?

The next part - There was a tumult in the sky - wonder what that was - the very axle of the Earth (that Atlas holds up as he is really the axle of the earth as Ive said before) Libyan Atlas that is - and all the constellations and stars were thrown from their paths in complete disarray, that must have left an impact on the people I would think.

The Pythagoreans say it left the Milky Way.

The hours wondered about the strange and unreal day and got confused and this is when Phaethon starts to fall - the quickfoot Horai at the celestial gate wondered at the strange and unreal day.

Zeus puts it all back in order with some rain - Then father Zeus struck down Phaethon with a thunderbolt, and sent him rolling helplessly from on high into the stream of Eridanos. He fixed again the joints which held all together with their primeval union, gave back the horses to Helios, brought the heavenly chariot to the place of rising; and the agile Horai that attended upon Phaethon followed their ancient course. All the earth laughed again. Rain from lifebreeding Zeus cleared all the fields, and with moist showers quenched the wandering fires, all that the glowing horses had spat whinnying from their flaming throats out of the sky over all the earth. Helios rose driving his car on his road again; the crops grew, the orchards laughed again, receiving as of yore the life-giving warmth from the sky.

Spat whinnying from their flaming throats out of the sky over all the earth - very hot heat that scorched the Earth, burnt up the land of Africa and caused famine and migration, warmed up the Northern Atlantic that then gave a warm spell in the North during the Bronze Age.

One more, this one is Ovid, same website link as above... it tells us exactly where Phaethon was when he apparently fell and it is exactly where I expected to find it at the time, in Orphiuchus, that is Asclepius, the healer, the sign of the zodiac that was omitted when it was created and divided into sectors which is very much what the descriptions given here show.

As Phaethon gets to the Scorpion's claws - There is a place in which the Scorpios claws curve in a double arc, with tail and legs on either side crossing two signs of heaven; sweating black venom, there before his eyes, circling its tail to strike, the creature lies. Death awaits you here, Asclepius could bring people back from the dead, so Zeus actually shoots him down with a thunderbolt as he is also a son of Apollo, he could be a son of a Sun God himself, shot down by Zeus, just like Phaethon, but anyway, this is the position that Phaethon is in when he appears to get confused by the hours and falls to the Earth.

There is a place in which the Scorpios claws curve in a double arc, with tail and legs on either side crossing two signs of heaven; sweating black venom, there before his eyes, circling its tail to strike, the creature lies. His senses reel; he drops the reins aghast. And when the reins fall loose upon their backs, the horses swerve away and, unrestrained, gallop through tracts of air unknown and race headlong, out of control, running amok amid the stars fixed in the vault of heaven, hurtling the chariot where no road had run. And now they climb to highest heaven, now plunge sheer in breakneck descent down to the earth. Luna [selene the Moon] with wonder sees her brothers team running below her own; the scalding clouds steam; the parched fields crack deep, all moisture dried, and every summit flames; the calcined meads lie white; the leaf dies burning with the bough and the dry corn its own destruction feeds. These are but trifles. Mighty cities burn with all their ramparts; realms and nations turn to ashes; mountains with their forests blaze. Athos is burning, Oete is on fire, and Tmolus and proud Taurus Cilix and the crest of Ide, dry whose springs were once so famed, and virgin Helicon and Haemus, still unknown, unhonoured. Aetne burns immense in twofold conflagration; Eryx flames and Othrys and Parnasos double peaks; Cynthus and Dindyma and Mycale and Rhodope, losing at last her snows, and Mimas and Cithaerons holy hill. Caucasus burns; the frosts of Scythia fail in her need; Pindus and Ossa blaze and, lordlier than both, Olympus flames and the airy Alpes and cloud-capped Appeninus. Then Phaethon saw the world on every side ablaze--heat more that he could bear. He breathed vapours that burned like furnace-blasts, and felt the chariot glow white-hot beneath his feet. Cinders and sparks past bearing shoot and swirl and scorching smoke surrounds him; in the murk, the midnight murk, he knows not where he is or goes; the horses whirl him where they will. The Aethiopes then turned black, so men believe, as heat summoned their blood too near the skin. Then was Libyas dusty desert [the Sahara] formed, all water scorched away.

Its hard to say if an event like the Kofels which sounds like it could have been what is described, or a very noticeable heating up of the Earth actually, or both at the same time.

PS: I just saw your post Alewyn and caught this part: (1) In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached.(2) Then he lifted up his feet, and went to the ends of the earth, to the dwelling of his great-grandfather Enoch. (3) And Noah cried with a bitter voice, Hear me; hear me; hear me: three times. And he said, Tell me what is transacting upon the earth; for the earth labours, and is violently shaken. Surely I shall perish with it. (4) After this there was a great perturbation on earth, and a voice was heard from heaven. I fell down on my face, when my great-grandfather Enoch came and stood by me.

How did I miss that??!!

I have a topic here called Axial Tilt = Climate Change = Phaethons myth, like that anyway, you can find it in My Topics if interested as I do think it is also possible that the earth tilted and much info might be able to be gleaned from it.

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

To whom it may concern.

In Chapter 1 of my book I argued that the date of 2193 BC in the Oera Linda Book has substance and that the event or disaster was most likely caused by an asteroid impact. Apart from all the civilizations that came to an end around 2200BC, I gave quotes from both the Oera Linda Book and the Book of Enoch viz:

1. OLB: The book of Adela’s followers, ch. XXI

Before the bad time came our land was the most beautiful in the World. The sun rose higher, and there was seldom frost.

2. The Book of Enoch

Chapter 55

(4) And when that agitation took place; the saints out of heaven perceived it; the pillar of the earth shook from its foundation; and the sound was heard from the extremities of the earth unto the extremities of heaven at the same time.

Chapter 64

(1) In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached.(2) Then he lifted up his feet, and went to the ends of the earth, to the dwelling of his great-grandfather Enoch. (3) And Noah cried with a bitter voice, Hear me; hear me; hear me: three times. And he said, Tell me what is transacting upon the earth; for the earth labours, and is violently shaken. Surely I shall perish with it. (4) After this there was a great perturbation on earth, and a voice was heard from heaven. I fell down on my face, when my great-grandfather Enoch came and stood by me.

Surely, the above describe a cosmic impact that disturbed Earth’s axis? If not, how do we explain them? If it can only be interpreted as a an impact, why do we ignore these utterances? Surely these must be key to our debate?

In Chapter 3 of my book the date of 2193 BC is used in conjunction with Biblical chronology and, to my mind, Noah’s flood checks out exactly with this date.

There we have two (three, if the Oera Linda Book is true) references to support both the date and the cosmic impact theory.

I speculated whether the Burckle “impact” may have been the cause and I based my argument on the fact that this was the closest identifiable event to 2193 BC. From evidence from all over, it may well be that the Earth moved through an asteroid belt or cloud. Whether the Burckle impact or some other impact was the cause is perhaps of secondary importance but if we reject the impact theory outright , I am afraid we are not going anywhere.

Herewith a schematic of what the impact could have done. The "Old" North Pole was not necesarily where I placed it. It could have been more to the south of Alaska which would then still have aligned with the N-S axes of the pyramids in Egypt. (Figure 3 in my Book which I previously ommitted.)

Make sure you catch the part in my post above about the earth's axle:

The next part - There was a tumult in the sky - wonder what that was - the very axle of the Earth (that Atlas holds up as he is really the axle of the earth as Ive said before) Libyan Atlas that is - and all the constellations and stars were thrown from their paths in complete disarray, that must have left an impact on the people I would think.

[Abramelin]

Yes, I know now you understoood me wrong, and no doubt that is because of the way I try to explain things in english, lol. Cormac once said something like that.

With local I meant that they used local topography, local names, local place names, local events, and so on to create the story. And all that they mixed with their extended knowledge of ancient Greek and Latin language and stories.

I did not mean that it was a local story, a real local story, like some legend or myth.

What I do find interesting is that you somehow ignore those sources I found.

You post a lot of things that you think are connected with the OLB, but I am busy finding the true sources the OLB is based on.

I also remember that it was you who said that that Middelsea was located in the west, and you just accepted Alewyn´s explanation that it ´must have been a translation error´.

It was not.

They talk about the Oostsea ( Baltic) in the east, and the Middelsea in the west. That´s not south, like the Mediterranean would be if it indeed was the Mediterranean.

Jensma talks about inconsistencies and errors in the OLB, as though they forgot to edit things out that might give us a clue about the truth, heh.

Or maybe they left these clues on purpose...

Puzz, I found an online copy of the 1941 edition of the OLB, the OLB by Overwijn. I use that version because the original OLB script as used in his book is a bit more easy to copy and show here.

The next is the quote that talks about 'east and west' in connection with the Middelsea:

by morne paldon

wi over et uter-ende thes aster.sê by êvind an thene middelsê. alsa wi. buta tha

littiga. wel twelif grâta swete rin.strâma hêdon. vs thrvch wr.alda jêven vmb vs lând

elte to haldane änd vmb vs wigandlik folk tha wêi to wisana nêi sina sê. tha owera thissar

rin.strâma wrdon tomet algadur thrvch vs folk bisêten (48) âk tha fjelda an thju rêne

fon.t êna ende alont et ôre ende thâ.

The words 'east' and 'west' are not used to describe the directions.

Actually the words 'morne', or morning, or better sunrise is used => east ; and 'evind', or evening, or better sunset is used => west. The words 'uter-ende' and 'thene' mean nothing more than 'on the one end' and 'on the other end'

So,it's something like on the one end, in the direction of the morning/sunrise there is the Aster.se (East Sea = Baltic), and on the other end, in the direction of the evening/sunset there is the Middelsea.

The word 'paldon' means something like 'being bordered by'. In Dutch there is the word 'afpalen', past tense, 'afgepaald'. It means exactly the same: bordered.

[The Puzzler]

In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached.(2) Then he lifted up his feet, and went to the ends of the earth, to the dwelling of his great-grandfather Enoch. (3) And Noah cried with a bitter voice, Hear me; hear me; hear me: three times. And he said, Tell me what is transacting upon the earth; for the earth labours, and is violently shaken. Surely I shall perish with it. (4) After this there was a great perturbation on earth, and a voice was heard from heaven. I fell down on my face, when my great-grandfather Enoch came and stood by me.

and also

There was tumult in the sky shaking the joints of the immovable universe: the very axle bent which runs through the middle of the revolving heavens [and holds the constellations in their place]. Libyan Atlas could hardly support the self-rolling firmament of stars, as he rested on his knees with bowed back under this greater burden . . . [and all the constellations and stars were thrown from their paths in complete disarray.]

Both of these do seem to tell us the earth tilted and also Plato says it himself - the Phaethon myth really signified a declination in the Heavens as well as the cataclysm stuff.

BUT Noah (oops I did have Abraham here) seems to know it brings impending doom is what I find interesting - Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached.-

I thought Abraham might be Magi, but Noah...brings in a new slant.

He seems to be aware of the cycle that comes and when the Earth declines or whatever happened, that catastrophe hits.

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Puzz, I found an online copy of the 1941 edition of the OLB, the OLB by Overwijn. I use that version because the original OLB script as used in his book is a bit more easy to copy and show here.

The next is the quote that talks about 'east and west' in connection with the Middelsea:

by morne paldon

wi over et uter-ende thes aster.sê by êvind an thene middelsê. alsa wi. buta tha

littiga. wel twelif grâta swete rin.strâma hêdon. vs thrvch wr.alda jêven vmb vs lând

elte to haldane änd vmb vs wigandlik folk tha wêi to wisana nêi sina sê. tha owera thissar

rin.strâma wrdon tomet algadur thrvch vs folk bisêten (48) âk tha fjelda an thju rêne

fon.t êna ende alont et ôre ende thâ.

The words 'east' and 'west' are not used to describe the directions.

Actually the words 'morne', or morning, or better sunrise is used => east ; and 'evind', or evening, or better sunset is used => west. The words 'uter-ende' and 'thene' mean nothing more than 'on the one end' and 'on the other end'

So,it's something like on the one end, in the direction of the morning/sunrise there is the Aster.se (East Sea = Baltic), and on the other end, in the direction of the evening/sunset there is the Middelsea.

The word 'paldon' means something like 'being bordered by'. In Dutch there is the word 'afpalen', past tense, 'afgepaald'. It means exactly the same: bordered.

Mate, I said a page ago I agreed it was local and when read by others it may have been taken exactly like we did, or I did, world rather than local, which could then lead to all sorts of things in myth that I find align.

Freyas laws may have gone here and there and some goddesses but maybe not a lot of people, it only takes one priest to start controlling populations or guiding them properly.

or put it this way, if Homer read it he would place it in the Mediterranean Sea since thats the sea he knew as the Middle Sea.

Edited July 14, 2010 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Mate, I said a page ago I agreed it was local and when read by others it may have been taken exactly like we did, or I did, world rather than local, which could then lead to all sorts of things in myth that I find align.

Freyas laws may have gone here and there and some goddesses but maybe not a lot of people, it only takes one priest to start controlling populations or guiding them properly.

I know you did, but then you asked me what I really meant with 'local'...

You will have to read what I said about that 'local', 2 posts of mine before this one.

EDIT:

I will save you the trouble, here's what I said:

"Yes, I know now you understoood me wrong, and no doubt that is because of the way I try to explain things in english, lol. Cormac once said something like that.

With local I meant that they used local topography, local names, local place names, local events, and so on to create the story. And all that they mixed with their extended knowledge of ancient Greek and Latin language and stories.

I did not mean that it was a local story, a real local story, like some legend or myth."

--

You say: "if Homer read it he would place it in the Mediterranean Sea since thats the sea he knew as the Middle Sea."

Agreed, but this is not about Homer, or the Romans or the Greeks.

And what would Homer think about the directions? If the East Sea is in the east, then he would have a bit of a problem with what was in the west, right? The Middel Sea is said to be located in the west, not the south.

--

Here's how Overwijn (1941) interpreted the area that was once the empire of the Frisians:

Verdonken land = Drowned land

Niet Grootfriezen = non Great Frisians (lol)

Zeegebied van max.200 meter diepte = sea area of max. 200 meters depth

Grootfriezen =Great Frisians (? Magna Frisians? Talking about ego, jeesh)

Kelten - Celts

Monding = mouth of river

-tak = branch (here of a river)

.

Edited July 14, 2010 by Abramelin