[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood

[Alewyn]

Alewyn,

You know I once posted a link to Overwijn's (1941/1951) book about the OLB. Later you tried to download it, but failed.

I think that after I posted the link to the pdf containing his book, the one who put it online took it again offline.

The pdf is 2,85 MB, and if you like I can send it to you through email.

---

About Overwijn and the OLB:

-

http://www.oeralindaboek.nl/pdf/KalmaOLBbibl.pdf

607 Overwijn. J.P., - Eenige opmerkingen omtrent het 'Oera Linda boek'. - Westfriesch Jaarboek 1940,

serie I, deel 3, pp. 12-23.

608 Wumkes. D.A., - De tragi-comedie van het Oera-Linda-Bok. - Morks Magazijn 1940, Jan.-Maart, pp.

20-35, 95-100, 152-158.

609 Verslag van 'n vergadering van het Ned.Volkskundig Genootschap (lezing van J.F. Overwijn over het

O.L.B.). - Leeuw. Crt. 1940, 22 Oct.

610 De oorsprong van het Friesche volk. Stammen de gegevens van het Oera Linda Bok uit betrouwbare

bron? (lezing van J.F. Overwijn). - Utrechtsch Nieuwsbl. 1940, 24 Oct.

1941

611 Heyting. August, - Het Wapen-Over de Linden en het O.L.B. - Ons Eigen Volk II, 1941, pp. 140-143.

*612 Heyting. August, - Het geheim van het O.L.B. Een merkwaardig handschrift. Uitgave onder

begunstiging van de Kelto-Germaanse Studiekring 'Yggdrasil'. Trifosreeks. - Den Haag. Uitg. Trifos,

Groot-Hertoginnelaan 81, 1941, 55 pp. 4° gestenc.

613 Overwijn. J.F., - De strekking van het O.L.B. Onze voorvaderen: de West-Friezen van Doggerland

(Verslag van twee lezingen voor het genootschap 'Yggdrasil'). - Het Vaderland 1941, 25 Maart en 10

Apr.

*614 Overwijn. J.F., - Thàt Ura Linda Bok, Opnieuw bewerkt en uitgegeven door --. - Enkhuizen, N.V.

Enkhuizer Courant v.h. D.C. Egmond, 1941, LVII, 189, XXIV pp. 8° (get. Dordrecht, Aug. 1941). vgl

[nr. *635].

624 Overwijn, J.F., - Merkwaardige namen en plaatsen in het O.L.B. - Ons Eigen Volk III, 1943, pp. 262-

271.

*635 Overwijn. J.F., - Thät Wra Linda Bok door -- tweede druk, verbeterd en vermeerderd. - Dordrecht,

Chefferd drukkerij (1951), 207, 173, 104, 10 pp. 8° (Inleiding 2de druk get. Dordrecht Jan. 1951) Vgl

[nr. *614].

--

Now read the highlighted part...it says, "Our forefathers, the West Frisians from Doggerland".

It has been suggested that several years ago the Brittish scientists B. Coles and/or V. Gaffney invented that name, "Doggerland", based on the Dogger Bank in the North Sea. Well, the above proves Overwijn already used that name in 1941...

I didn't know it was Overwijn who used that name back then; in his book he only mentions the Dogger Bank.

Makes one think about why the scientists I mentioned were so interested in the ancient North Sea... Nowhere does it say they did NOT invent the name, or even that they read it in 'some old book'.

In case you didn't know, it is this Overwijn who also had a theory about the tilt of the earth's axis in his book about the OLB, but he places the event much further back in time, and he never got tired of saying the date, 2193 BC, was wrong.

However, I must add that his ideas about the OLB are heavily influenced by the writings of Blavatsky and Velikovsky.

What intrigues me personally, is that Overwijn places the destruction of Aldland (and acccording to him it was the dry North Sea bed,"Doggerland") in 6250 BC. Only recently that date was more accurately known, based on radiocarbon dating, to be 6100 BC. As far as I know they didn't even know about radiocarbon dating in 1951 (second edition of Overwijn's book). Overwijn calls the event the "Cimbrian Flood", although Strabo placed it in the 3d or 2d century BC.

.

Abe, I would love to have Overwijn's book. If you can send it by e-mail it would be much appreciated.

Btw. You are dishing out more homework than any lecturer I ever knew.

The OLB places the Cimbrian Flood in 305 BC and Dr. Dallas Abbott speculated that a cosmic impact struck the North Atlantic in ca. 300 BC. She found evidence of this on Manhattan in (I think) 2004. See my reference to the "Manhattan Tsunami".

Edited September 25, 2010 by Alewyn

[cormac mac airt]

This is very convincing and blows my "Tilt Theory" totally out of the water. Thank you for that.

I guess we shall just have to search for a better understanding of the 2193 BC event.

You're welcome.

It's likely to be only one in a long series of events to have happened in the last few millenia BC.

Nothing currently attributable to any singular cause, IMO.

cormac

[Abramelin]

Abe, I would love to have Overwijn's book. If you can send it by e-mail it would be much appreciated.

Btw. You are dishing out more homework than any lecturer I ever knew.

The OLB places the Cimbrian Flood in 305 BC and Dr. Dallas Abbott speculated that a cosmic impact struck the North Atlantic in ca. 300 BC. She found evidence of this on Manhattan in (I think) 2004. See my reference to the "Manhattan Tsunami".

I just found out something (stupid, but true).....

The pdf is NOT Overwijn's book, but a pdf based on his book.

This is what it says at the end: "O.L.B. samengesteld door Rein Hougee – dec.2004". This Rein Hougee, however, did copy all the maps created by Overwijn, Overwijn's transliteration, and many of his notes.

I was having some doubts about the relative small size of the pdf - only 2.5 Mb - when it should be like 20 or more Mb (Overwijn's book is more than 400 pages long).

Anyway, I will send you a pm here (don't worry, the 'pm will stay 'p', lol).

[Otharus]

You say the manuscript is way too complex to have been made up (who said it was a 'joke'??).

You did:

#661 (11 aug. 2010)

"Puzz, you can drag up as much as you want, but to me the OLB is nothing but a hilarious joke, using local legends and topography, mixed with the extensive knowledge of ancient history the writers - the 19th century writers - had of Latin, Greek and Egyptian myths and language."

[Otharus]

... during the past months I visited forums about Friesland and there only a few members or 'guests' (Frisian and Dutch) who think the OLB is a true account of ancient history.

The quality of the people who take OLB seriously is more interesting than their quantity.

[Abramelin]

You did:

#661 (11 aug. 2010)

"Puzz, you can drag up as much as you want, but to me the OLB is nothing but a hilarious joke, using local legends and topography, mixed with the extensive knowledge of ancient history the writers - the 19th century writers - had of Latin, Greek and Egyptian myths and language."

Well, I even explained yesterday why exactly I thought it was a joke.

Nevermind, I hope you have a bit more to offer than just that??

[Abramelin]

The quality of the people who take OLB seriously is more interesting than their quantity.

If I didn't take it seriously, would I have written all that I did in this thread?

I could have said, "Heh, forget it, it's not worth the trouble".

"The quality of the people"....... well, show us YOUR quality.

.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

did you get an answer from Jensma at the question you asked him at the end of your video??

I'm pretty sure he must have seen it by now, but no, he never answered it.

It's a rhetorical question I must admit, because if his statement (recited in de video) was based on a suicide letter by Ottema, I'm sure Jensma would have mentioned it.

This is just one example of the many assumptions that Jensma presents as facts.

[Abramelin]

I'm pretty sure he must have seen it by now, but no, he never answered it.

It's a rhetorical question I must admit, because if his statement (recited in de video) was based on a suicide letter by Ottema, I'm sure Jensma would have mentioned it.

This is just one example of the many assumptions that Jensma presents as facts.

Then why don't you send Jensma an email with your question? I suggested Alewyn to do the same because of his book, and he got an answer from Jensma.

It's quite possible Jensma doesn't even know about your videos at all.

I think it's a very reasonable question to ask, and I discussed the reason of Ottema's suicide in this thread.

[Otharus]

An example often used (e.g. by dr.Jensma) is "BEDRUM", translated by him as 'sleepchamber' (slaapkamer).

BEDEN means to ask, pray, offer (Dutch: bidden, bieden);

RUM means space or room (Dutch: ruim, ruimte).

The modern word "bed" can hereby be explained.

Although I will agree with Jensma's opinion about the OLB being a complex and praisable work of art, the way words and names are being explained/derived in the OLB is nothing but hilarious.

That depends on ones sense of humor.

You ignored my alternative explanation of "BEDRUM".

Do you find it hilarious too?

[Abramelin]

An example often used (e.g. by dr.Jensma) is "BEDRUM", translated by him as 'sleepchamber' (slaapkamer).

BEDEN means to ask, pray, offer (Dutch: bidden, bieden);

RUM means space or room (Dutch: ruim, ruimte).

The modern word "bed" can hereby be explained.

That depends on ones sense of humor.

You ignored my alternative explanation of "BEDRUM".

Do you find it hilarious too?

No, I think it's wrong.

"Thit stat in al vsa burga.

(...)

Hwil that alrek drok to kaempane wêre, was thêr en wla Fin to thêre flête jefta bedrum fon thêre Moder inglupth, ând wilde hja nêdgja"

[Ottema's translation:]

"Terwijl iedereen druk aan het vechten was, was er een leelijke Fin in de (fleete) of het slaapvertrek van de Moeder binnen geslopen, en wilde haar geweld aandoen."

http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/_the002thet01_01/_the002thet01_01_0032.php

"Chapter XXXI: This is inscribed in all our burghs -

"While the fight was going on, a rascally Finn stole into the bedroom of the folk-mother, and would have raped her"

http://bulfinch.englishatheist.org/linda/Oera-Linda.htm

First, it was Ottema who translated it as 'bedroom'.

Then, you appear to suggest that this folk-mother was about to be raped in her own... what, 'praying chamber'?

These Frya people were not Christians, as you should know.

[Abramelin]

Extra:

The etymological origin of 'bed' in 'bedrvm' seems to have been some old word that meant 'waiting' or 'resting':

bed

O.E. bedd "bed, couch, resting place, garden plot," from P.Gmc. *badjam "sleeping place dug in the ground" (cf. M.Du. bedde, O.N. beðr, O.H.G. betti, Ger. bett, Goth. badi), from PIE base *bhedh- "to dig, pierce" (cf. Hittite beda- "to pierce, prick," Gk. bothyros "pit," L. fossa "ditch," Lith. bedre "to dig," Bret. bez "grave"). Both "sleeping" and "gardening" senses are in O.E. Meaning "bottom of a lake, sea, watercourse" is from 1580s. The verb meaning "to sleep with" is early 14c.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bed

het werkwoord beiden betekent wachten en zeker niet wonen of verblijven.

http://users.telenet.be/crijns-bormans/nl/index.htm?opgrimbie.htm~pagina

bide

O.E. bidan "to stay, continue, live, remain," also "to trust, rely" (cognate of O.N. biða, O.Fris. bidia, Goth. beidan "to wait"), apparently from PIE *bheidh-, an extended stem of one root of O.E. biddan (see bid), the original sense of which was "to command," and "to trust" (cf. Gk. peithein "to persuade," pistis "faith;" L. fidere "to trust," foedus "compact, treaty," O.C.S. beda "need"). Perhaps the sense evolved in prehistoric times through "endure," and "endure a wait," to "to wait." Preserved in Scotland and northern England, replaced elsewhere by abide in all senses except to bide one's time.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=bide

[The Puzzler]

BEDROOM/BEDRUM:

O.E. bedd "bed, couch, resting place, garden plot," from P.Gmc. *badjam "sleeping place dug in the ground" (cf. M.Du. bedde, O.N. beðr, O.H.G. betti, Ger. bett, Goth. badi), from PIE base *bhedh- "to dig, pierce" (cf. Hittite beda- "to pierce, prick," Gk. bothyros "pit," L. fossa "ditch," Lith. bedre "to dig," Bret. bez "grave"). Both "sleeping" and "gardening" senses are in O.E. Meaning "bottom of a lake, sea, watercourse" is from 1580s. The verb meaning "to sleep with" is early 14c.

OK, so I'm not even going on the word bedrum being a translation from Latin, I'm going on an original Nordic word, that translated into Frisian as something like 'bedram' or bedrum. This is where I think the whole book is being misinterpreted. Words are being taken from Latin when they seem to actually originate in Old Norse. It's bedr - rum basically in Old Norse, (a sleeping place - space.), imo it's not coming to us through a Latin translation.

O.E. rum "space," from P.Gmc. *ruman (cf. O.N., O.S., O.H.G., Goth. rum, Ger. Raum "space," Du. ruim "hold of a ship, nave"), nouns formed from Gmc. adj. *ruma- "roomy, spacious," perhaps from a PIE base *rew- "wide, open" (cf. Avestan ravah- "space," L. rus "open country," O.Ir. roi, roe "plain field"). Original sense preserved in make room "clear space for oneself" (late 14c.); meaning "chamber, cabin" first recorded early 14c. as a nautical term, and first applied mid-15c. to chambers within houses. The O.E. word for this was cofa, ancestor of cove. The verb meaning "to occupy rooms" (especially with another) as a lodger" is first recorded 1828. Room-service is attested from 1930; room-temperature from 1924. Roomth "sufficient space" (1540) now is obsolete.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=room

Considering it appears to me they come north down into Friesland from more Northern areas around Denmark, Jutland and West Sweden, I would assume their language held old Nordic traces of words.

Edited September 25, 2010 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

The most important thing is not whether 'bed' and 'room' are Nordic or Latin in origin, but when the combination of these 2 words, 'bedroom' came into existence.

bedroom

1610s, from bed + room. Replaced earlier bedchamber.

cubicle

mid-15c., "bedroom," from L. cubiculum "bedroom," from cubare "to lie down," originally "bend oneself," from PIE base *keu(b )- "to bend, turn." With L. -clom, suffix denoting place. Obsolete from 16c., but revived 19c. for "dormitory sleeping compartment," sense of "any partitioned space" (such as a library carrel or, later, office work station) is first recorded 1926.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=bedroom%20prowler

==

I also checked what the modern Norse, Swedish and Danish words for bedroom are (couldn't find the Old Norse/Swedish/Danish):

Eng: Bedroom / Norse: soverommet / Swedish: 1.sovrum (sleeping chamber), 2.sängkammare (bed chamber) / Danish: soveværelse

All these Nordic words with 'sov..' mean 'sleeping room'.

Eng: bed / Norse: bed / Swedish: säng / Danish: seng

--

I don't know, but the OLB 'bedrvm' could indeed very well be a very recent borrowing from the English language.

And if there is an (old) Frisian word 'bedrum', then I would like to see a source where it is used.

====

EDIT:

An Old Dutch word for bedroom is 'betekamere' , and is in fact the same word as the Old English 16th century derivative (bed chamber) of the Latin original.

http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/toor004gesc01_01/toor004gesc01_01_0007.php

Also this: I think 'flête jefta bedrum', translated by Ottema into 'fleete het slaapvertrek' (fleete or bedroom) is the clue to the real meaning of the word 'bedrvm'

I have tried find the meaning of the word 'flête' or 'fleete', but failed.

.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Say Otharus, you also appear to be interested/believing in the 'Bock Saga':

http://www.youtube.com/odddom4

My guess is that both Puzzler and Qoais believe in it too.

Can you tell me why you appear to be convinced it is true, and not a(nother) hoax?

If you believe one (OLB), you cannot believe the other(BS, sorry, Bock Saga).

[Abramelin]

I think many fiercely believe in the OLB because it's some kind of alternative and ancient and more 'convincing' religion than what we had up to the 19th century (Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Taoism, shamanism, animism).

I'd like to add that Puzzler and Alewyn are not one of those, btw.

But I have watched several of your videos, Otharus, and I checked what you posted on Wiki.

Sorry, but I think you are indeed 'one of those'.

And I think that is what Jensma is all about....

--

You said that comparing the OLB with the LoftR (or even better, his "Silmarillion) by Tolkien is like comparing apples with oranges.

Now imagine Tolkien would have left out most of the magical stuff from his books. Imagine he wrote it in one of his made-up Elvish languages and used the script he invented on artificially aged paper. Most important, imagine he said it was all true....

I think many people would be discussing his work till hell freezes over.

.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

And what did you think about my explanation of "Twiskland"? ... And Otharus is someone who lives close to the West Frisian "Twisk".

The Swedish name for Germany is "Tyskland"...

To be honest, I am quite curious about Otharus' opinion of what's been posted in this thread about the OLB (he read Jensma's book about the OLB), and his opinion about your book.

Lots of interesting things. Thank you all. I look forward to reading Alewyn's book which is on it's way. When I have time I'll post more.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Otharus

[Abramelin]

The Swedish name for Germany is "Tyskland"...

Lot's of interesting things. Thank you all. I look forward to reading Alewyn's book which is on it's way. When I have time I'll post more.

The Swedish name for Germany is 'Tyskland'? Great, but Alewyn will not be happy with that (but I'm sure it will make Puzzler's day, lol).

He thinks it's Russia:

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyskland

,

Edited September 25, 2010 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

Say Otharus, you also appear to be interested/believing in the 'Bock Saga'

There is a better playlist on Bock Saga on http://www.youtube.com/oeralinda

(I also warmly recommend the EDDA playlist)

If people are interested in discussing Bock Saga I would suggest to start another thread.

It has helped me a lot in understanding the language of OLB.

[Otharus]

And I think that is what Jensma is all about....

What do you mean with this?

[Abramelin]

There is a better playlist on Bock Saga on http://www.youtube.com/oeralinda

(I also warmly recommend the EDDA playlist)

If people are interested in discussing Bock Saga I would suggest to start another thread.

It has helped me a lot in understanding the language of OLB.

You didn't answer my question.

[Abramelin]

What do you mean with this?

How easily people can be converted.

You just appeal to their innermost feelings, to their helplesness, and you have hooked them.

Ask any guru....

[The Puzzler]

Since we can find bedr (in O.N) for sleeping place and rum for space (in O.N) it does translate to sleeping place space with no need for any Latin intervention in the formation of the word. In fact, did you ever think the people who were the Latin people, the actual people who were alot like Etruscans in Latium, that we actually use their letters could have been first based in the Nordic lands. I don't think it's far fetched and that the word iron in Etruscan says Aesir or aisar and that is the name of the Nordic 1st pantheon, with Freya it seems almost a given that these 2 cultures had some connection from the times of amber trade at the Vistula. Is that why the OLB word has a V instead of a U, the Latin V for U is actually older than Latin itself. It's the confusing V, U, F, Ph thing going on that complicates it.

If a V was written round like the Jule it would look like this U - that would be V. Which it is, but then you can see the U letter in the OLB looks like a small V.

Here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/atl/olb/img/olb048.jpg

So, the people of Vesta used a U for the letter that sounded like V, Vesta would have looked like Uesta or any of the 2 other variations of the V sound but still pronounced Vesta. Only the shape was different, not the sound.

The word bedrvm, therefore makes sense as is, it is a U sound with the V letter.

Ask yourself why does the Latin letter U look like a V.... because it's an alphabet from the Jule. The Latin people of Latium in the time of Rhea Silvia imo had to be from Northern Europe, even Nordic. At the very least, trading amber and learnt this Jule alphabet.

The people of Latium are really interesting and it should be recalled that Rhea Silvia, a Latium woman, the mother of Remus and Romulus was a VESTAL VIRGIN.

That shows a connection to Hesta/Vesta/Hestia the hearth and the whole culture of the Frisians folk mother, whose scribe was Hesta/Vesta - Vestal, the virgins of Vesta.

Edited September 26, 2010 by The Puzzler

[Otharus]

1) Can you tell me why you appear to be convinced it is true, and not a(nother) hoax?

2) If you believe one (OLB), you cannot believe the other(BS, sorry, Bock Saga).

1) How can I know? I appear that to you, so ask yourself.

2) Why not?

My answer was: open a new thread if you want to discuss Bock Saga, but I'm not sure if I'll join.

Just one example of why I have difficulties taking you (Abramelin) seriously:

The OLB itself is very short: it will take you an hour to read it whole.

212 pages (with complex information) in 60 minutes is 3.5 page per minute.

I am not interested in a 'discussion' with someone that -to me- appears to be more drunk than skeptic.

[Abramelin]

1) How can I know? I appear that to you, so ask yourself.

2) Why not?

My answer was: open a new thread if you want to discuss Bock Saga, but I'm not sure if I'll join.

Just one example of why I have difficulties taking you (Abramelin) seriously:

212 pages (with complex information) in 60 minutes is 3.5 page per minute.

I am not interested in a 'discussion' with someone that -to me- appears to be more drunk than skeptic.

Well, let's focus on the OLB.

212 pages, yeah.

I mean the original pages: these 'pages' are tiny. The information isn't complex at all. And when you just read the translated text (in English or in Dutch), you are done within the hour. When I posted about that 'bedrvm', I added a link to an online translation (in English, the Bullfinch site). Try it, everyone: it's one page on a website.

http://bulfinch.englishatheist.org/linda/Oera-Linda.htm

.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Abramelin